BS: Apostrophe Protection Society

Subject: Apostrophe Protection Society
From: Skipjack K8
Date: 10 Dec 01 - 12:44 PM

I was on the road with Mrs S yesterday, in foggy conditions. We were keen not to miss our exit, and were scrutinising the signs more closely than usual.

A sign hove out of the fog, declaring Humber Br'. Excuse me! I bemoaned the parlous state of the apostrophe in written English, and wondered to which authority I should complain, and then I found it ................ The Apostrophe Protection Society.

It's at http://www.apostrophe.fsnet.co.uk/

Pedants unite

Skipjack

Subject: RE: BS: Apostrophe Protection Society
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 10 Dec 01 - 12:47 PM

Blicky for a timely site!

Subject: RE: BS: Apostrophe Protection Society
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 10 Dec 01 - 12:57 PM

I agree with the sentiment but aren't these equally wrong

"1000's of bargains here! which should read 1000s of bargains here!"

I don't want to make lite of this, but I've been trying to tell you all nite it's thousands!

Subject: RE: BS: Apostrophe Protection Society
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 10 Dec 01 - 01:03 PM

You've touched on another pet peeve:

A figure written as 1000s should not be read as "thousands". "1000" is "ONE thousand", not "thousand", so "1000s" would be "one thousands", which is clearly nonsense.

Unless, of course, you mean a bunch of figures like 1000, 1000, 1000, 1000, in which case there are four 1000s.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Apostrophe Protection Society
From: Gary T
Date: 10 Dec 01 - 01:49 PM

As to "1000's"--

Dave's point is probably technically correct, but I'd have to believe that "1000's" is pretty well understood by most to mean "thousands."

Given that it will be used that way, I would say the apostrophe is correct for the plural. "1000," like "TV" or "ATM," is not a full word, and would qualify for an apostrophe-s to form the plural, as in "twenty TV's," etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Apostrophe Protection Society
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Dec 01 - 04:10 PM

I have been using dates like 1890s and 1930s. Should an ata-stroph be put in them? (Thoughts about Jimmie Durante and his "What a cata-stroph!" came into my head).
I looked in my style manual, but it seems to prefer 1890-1900 or 1930-1940. Guess I am wrong, apostrophe or not.

Subject: RE: BS: Apostrophe Protection Society
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Dec 01 - 04:23 PM

Maybe it's an abuse of power, but I have been known to delete offending apostrophes from messages posted here (mostly only from lyrics postings). I'm guilty. I'd say I'm sorry, but I know I'll do it again.
Live with it.

But there was a request for a song here (click) today that mentioned underwear with a particular brand name. With this thread going on, I was reluctant to post the lyrics and get caught with my pants down. So, tell me, what's the plural of BVD?

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Apostrophe Protection Society
From: Pene Azul
Date: 10 Dec 01 - 04:32 PM

According to Jane Straus' The Blue Book Of Grammar and Punctuation:

Rule 9. Using an apostrophe to show plurals of numbers, letters, and figures is optional.

Examples She consulted with three M.D.'s. OR She consulted with three M.D.s.
She went to three M.D.s' offices. (plural possessive)

Subject: RE: BS: Apostrophe Protection Society
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Dec 01 - 04:52 PM

Thank's! Its kind of you to post the book's rules.

Subject: RE: BS: Apostrophe Protection Society
From: catspaw49
Date: 10 Dec 01 - 04:57 PM

Some of y'all's anals are retentive doncha' think?

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Apostrophe Protection Society
From: Helen
Date: 10 Dec 01 - 04:57 PM

"He felt a bit sorry that he'd pointed out the mistake. Probably no one would have noticed in any case. Ankh-Morpork people considered that spelling was a sort of optional extra. They believed in it in the same way they believed in punctuation; it didn't matter where you put it so long as it was there."

Terry Pratchett, The Truth, (p. 26, Corgi Pb)

Subject: RE: BS: Apostrophe Protection Society
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Dec 01 - 04:58 PM

Say it isn't so, Dicho!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Apostrophe Protection Society
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 10 Dec 01 - 06:34 PM

Pene, If "'" is optional why not?

She went to three M.D.'s'offices.

"Examples She consulted with three M.D.'s. OR She consulted with three M.D.s. She went to three M.D.s' offices. (plural possessive)

Subject: RE: BS: Apostrophe Protection Society
From: AliUK
Date: 10 Dec 01 - 07:16 PM

Me head is spinning! What's a poor EFL teacher to do, you lot bunging these damn threads in here and I keep thinking,"Jesus! I'm glad I don't get these questions in my classes." And whaddaya know! That very day I get some pinickerty student come up to me and ask me. Then I come on to the 'net ( apostrophe included) and find you lot talking about it, after I have blustered my way through an explanation, that wouldn't convince an ijjit.

Subject: RE: BS: Apostrophe Protection Society
From: Pene Azul
Date: 10 Dec 01 - 07:23 PM

Jack, I believe M.D.'s' would be improper because it would be awkward to read with the two uses of the apostrophe. Such a usage would also resemble single quotes.

Jeff

Subject: RE: BS: Apostrophe Protection Society
From: BanjoRay
Date: 10 Dec 01 - 08:04 PM

Of course Jane Straus' The Blue Book Of Grammar and Punctuation is American, so it doesn't apply to English.

Cheers
Ray (ducking and running)

Subject: RE: BS: Apostrophe Protection Society
From: Amos
Date: 10 Dec 01 - 08:09 PM

We were taught to cleave to the Chicago Manual of Style as a baseline of all stylistic decisions, including when to spell a number out and when to apostrophize.

For the new lows of informailty brought into being by e-mail and text messaging, however, I guess all standards are optional.

Exercise the best preferences you can find.

Then, defend them rabidly!

A

Subject: RE: BS: Apostrophe Protection Society
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Dec 01 - 08:27 PM

Apostrophe: A figure in rhetoric in which the orator turned away from rest of audience to address one person.

Now I wonder how it got its other meaning?

Subject: RE: BS: Apostrophe Protection Society
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Dec 01 - 09:15 PM

Enuf already! I'm a-leavin' this thread.
"With a fygure of apostrophe and turning his tale to God crying out."

Subject: RE: BS: Apostrophe Protection Society
From: catspaw49
Date: 10 Dec 01 - 09:18 PM

Just to clarify the M.D. thing, it should be written in the singular as M.D.y's and in the plural as M.D.ies'. These are correct for singular and plural possessive.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Apostrophe Protection Society
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Dec 01 - 09:26 PM

How's that? You have your M Days in American and your M Dies in Cockney?

Subject: RE: BS: Apostrophe Protection Society
From: catspaw49
Date: 10 Dec 01 - 09:48 PM

No, it's just that I know a lot of Docs (out of necesssity) and they all believe that MD stands for Major Deity. (Apologies to Mark Cohen....LOL....)

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Apostrophe Protection Society
From: Sorcha
Date: 10 Dec 01 - 11:13 PM

aaaarrrrgggghhhh! All I can say is that I try to get it right. Sheesh.

Subject: RE: BS: Apostrophe Protection Society
From: Amos
Date: 11 Dec 01 - 12:29 AM

Gawd, Spaw!! If it weren't so bloody true, it wouldn't be so damn funny. But to keep the record balanced I just came through a run in with doctors both general and special and they were the nicest guys I could have asked for, competent, cheerful, informative and in good communication. So -- does this prove the rule??

By the way -- you ARE funny.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Apostrophe Protection Society
From: catspaw49
Date: 11 Dec 01 - 01:17 AM

Ah hell Amos....thanks....but I'm glad to hear you came through well, saw the other thread. And the real truth is that most of my Docs have been super people and the guys like Michler who did the robotic valve job pretty much deserve the title.....and he's a helluva' nice guy to boot.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Apostrophe Protection Society
From: John J
Date: 11 Dec 01 - 05:58 AM

Good heavens Skipjack! You've started something here!

John (Member of the Greater Manchester Apostrophe Society)

Subject: RE: BS: Apostrophe Protection Society
From: John J
Date: 11 Dec 01 - 12:46 PM

Im surprised youve not had more addition's to this thread.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Apostrophe Protection Society
From: MMario
Date: 11 Dec 01 - 01:01 PM

I don't believe that apostrophes require protection. In a manner similar to commas, what is actually required is a limited hunting season,during which any person at all can delete extra apostophes. However, to MOVE one would require a special handling license. Just think of the extra paperwork and fees this could generate!

Subject: RE: BS: Apostrophe Protection Society
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 11 Dec 01 - 02:38 PM

Of course the correct way is three "Medical Doctors' offices". and "thousands" I don't know about you folk's but growning up back in Newfoundland, I lost marks in English for using abreviations in my compositions.

Subject: RE: BS: Apostrophe Protection Society
From: Amos
Date: 11 Dec 01 - 06:54 PM

Well, Jack, like the song says, "Groaning up is hard to do, oooo-woooo, hard to dooo.....".

I think it would be a wonderful thing to institute an abbreviation free day, especially amongst teens and others who use verbal ellipsis as a way of beckoning for tacit comprehension. One that always gets my goat is the construction "I'm (fill in the blank)...so....", and ernding the sentence there, the intention being to force the other person to accept without argument one's tacit position. Another is the "So...yeah!" construct which is a sort odf cheery meaningless interjected into conversations to imply "I'm too scatter brained to think of anything tosay at this point but I'm supposed to talk anyway so I'll use this." "Whatever!" and "He/she is soooo not (adjective of choice)" are other irritating shorthands current in the times.

An abbreviation free day would have to be timed to coincide with a national holiday. Otherwise government offices would grind to a halt and DoD (Department of Defense) projects would be paralyzed and unable to communicate. The costs would be astronomical and thousand of middle-level managers would be SOL!!

A