Baby Jesus

Subject: Baby Jesus
From: little john cameron
Date: 17 Dec 01 - 04:11 PM

Here is something to get you going,I know we kind of frown at religious posts,but this is not really about religion.Ah cannae staun aw' this guff aboot "Baby Jesus".Whit a pile o' maudlin tripe.If fowk wid pay mair attention tae whit the man said insteid o' whether he didnae greet.Who stertit aw' this rubbish.Aye we're a richt gullible bunch an' nae mistake. ljc

Subject: RE: Baby Jesus
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Dec 01 - 04:34 PM

At this time of year, the story about routing out the moneychangers is apt. He was apparently quite a rabble rouser. Any carols about that?

Subject: ADD: The Bitter Withy^^^
From: GUEST,Desdemona
Date: 17 Dec 01 - 04:39 PM

How about
The Bitter Withy? Nasty, vengeful Baby Jesus gets his holy little hide tanned by the Virgin!

As it fell out upon a bright holiday
Small hail from the sky did fall
Our Saviour asked his mother mild
'Can I go and play at the ball?'

'At the ball, the ball, my own dear son
It's time that you was gone
But it's don't let me hear of any mischief
At night when you come home'

So it's up the hill and it's down the hill
Our sweet young Saviour ran
Until he come to three rich lords' sons
'Good morning sirs, each one'

'Good morn, good morn and good morn' says they
'It's thrice good morn,' says he
'And it's which of you three rich lords' sons
Is gonna play at the ball with me?'

'Why, we, we're lords' we're ladies' sons
Born in a bower or hall
But you, you're nothing but a poor maid's child
You was born in an ox's stall'

'Well, if I'm nothing but a poor maid's child
Born in an ox's stall
I'll make you believe in your latter end
That I'm an angel above you all'

And so he built him a bridge with the rays of the sun
Over the river ran he
Them three rich lords' sons, they followed him
And it's drowned they were all three

And it's up the hill and it's down the hill
Three weeping mothers ran
Saying, 'Mary mild, take home your child
For ours he's drowned each one'

And so it's Mary mild, she took home her child
She laid him across her knee
And it's with a switch of the bitter withy
Why she's given him slashes three

Oh, bitter withy, oh, bitter withy
You caused me to smart
And now the willow shall be the very first tree
Gonna perish at the heart ^^^

---

This version is a bit different from what we have in the Digital Tradition. I'm going to pass it by for harvesting, but maybe I shouldn't. Opinions?
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Baby Jesus
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 17 Dec 01 - 05:16 PM

speak English, you fool, there are no subtitles in this thread. With thanks to the Goons

Subject: RE: Baby Jesus
From: GUEST,Desdemona
Date: 17 Dec 01 - 05:34 PM

That's the version sung by the Watersons on "Sound, Sound Your Instruments of Joy"; it can alsao be found on the Frost & Fire" CD. There are of course many different versions (half the fun of folk and traditional music---I love winding my mother up with different takes on "Barbara Allen" and The Holly & the Ivy"---she just can't stand it, poor woman!); I just like the way Mike Waterson sings it through his nose!

Subject: RE: Baby Jesus
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Dec 01 - 05:38 PM

Tried Bitter withy, bitter and withy and nothing came up in DT. Thread 16164 has a version of The Bitter Withy and also The Holy Well, which is related (good discussions).
History of Mary Mild

Subject: RE: Baby Jesus
From: little john cameron
Date: 17 Dec 01 - 05:40 PM

Fuck off Guest,guest. Baby jesus!!

Subject: RE: Baby Jesus
From: Joe Offer
Date: 17 Dec 01 - 05:44 PM

There's an interesting thread on "the Bitter Withy" here (click).

I suppose I have to admit that I like the "sweet baby Jesus" sentimentality, despite my better judgment. I get misty-eyed over all sorts of sappy things, and then hate myself for it afterwards. Much of what we thing we know about the birth of Jesus isn't iun Scripture, and I can't say I take the infancy narrative of Matthew and Luke as historical statements - they are wonderfully poetic, and richly theological. But I take all the stories and enjoy them and get misty over them. Why not?

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Baby Jesus
From: GUEST,Desdemona
Date: 17 Dec 01 - 05:49 PM

Yes, they were interesting discussions---it's fascinating how so many limbs can all seemingly lead back to the same essential root. One point made in that thread was how nasty & bratty little Jesus seems in those songs & stories; we have to remember that in lots of ways our ancestors didn't think at all the way we do, because their outlook on everything was informed by an experience of society & culture very different to our own (especially those of us who are now "Americans"). This is particularly the case with the mediaeval mind; in the Middle Ages the various apocryphal tales of scriptural movers & shakers were in heavy circulation as the Bible itself, and both were generally circulated by means of oral tradition, lending a "telephone game" element to the whole enterprise! So for all we know, our ancestors were happy to see little lord Jesus give those snooty gentlemens' sons a good soaking!

Subject: RE: Baby Jesus
From: little john cameron
Date: 17 Dec 01 - 05:54 PM

Ah know whit ye mean Joe.Away in a manger gets tae me.BUT, I think it is because mah grannie used tae sing it tae me when a wis a wean.As ah matter o' fact ah can feel it comin oan noo jist thinkin aboot it.
Ah hae a book,ah'm ah book nut,aboot "The Life o' Mary".Whit a bunch o' rubbish. ljc

Subject: RE: Baby Jesus
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Dec 01 - 06:11 PM

The stories are very poetic and full of both symbolism and thought provoking concepts. So are Lord of the Rings and the Bhagavad-Gita. I read them all and enjoy much of the imagery.... I try VERY hard to appreciate the complex history of the human race and its legends and beliefs. The story(s) of Jesus is fascinating, and I try to both hold myself aloof from the question of 'belief', while not harassing those who DO believe.

In this world, it is often a harder line to walk to NOT accept certain stories as 'true'...those who DO believe have standard ways of dealing with things and have generalized acceptance in the fabric of daily life, while those who do NOT are constantly having to 'explain' and avoid.

I know, I know...some religious groups can easily point to persecution and harassment and ridicule, but in general 'belief' is more acceptable....

The 'Baby Jesus' story sure was well written to be convincing and evoke sentiment...true or not, hmmm?

Subject: RE: Baby Jesus
From: Genie
Date: 18 Dec 01 - 02:23 AM

Dicho, You said:
" At this time of year, the story about routing out the moneychangers is apt. He was apparently quite a rabble rouser. Any carols about that?"

Check out Jackson Browne's "The Rebel Jesus" on the "Bells of Dublin" album with the Chieftains.  The song is discussed, and lyrics posted, in several threads here at the 'cat."
 

Genie

Subject: RE: Baby Jesus
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 Dec 01 - 09:32 AM

There's Ewan McColl's "Jesus Was a Working Man"- I KNOW it was discussed here not too long ago, but for the life of me can't turn it up. Also recorded by Phil Ochs.

Best, Greg

Subject: Lyr Add: BALLAD OF THE CARPENTER (Ewan MacColl)
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Dec 01 - 06:03 PM

It's called "The Ballad of the Carpenter"
The Ballad Of the Carpenter
By Ewan MacColl

  Dm          C       Dm
  Jesus was a working man
             C        Dm
  And a hero you will hear
              C       Dm    Am
  Born in the town of Bethlehem
         Dm             Gm
  At the turning of the year
         A7             Dm
  At the turning of the year
  
  When Jesus was a little lad
  Streets rang with his name
  For he argued with the older men
  And put them all to shame
  He put them all to shame
  
  He became a wandering journeyman
  And he traveled far and wide
  And he noticed how wealth and poverty
  Live always side by side
  Live always side by side
  
  So he said "Come you working men
  Farmers and weavers too
  If you would only stand as one
  This world belongs to you
  This world belongs to you"
  
  When the rich men heard what the carpenter had done
  To the Roman troops they ran
  Saying put this rebel Jesus down
  He's a menace to God and man
  He's a menace to God and man
  
  The commander of the occupying troops
  Just laughed and then he said
  "There's a cross to spare on Calvaries hill
  By the weekend he'll be dead
  By the weekend he'll be dead"
  
  Now Jesus walked among the poor
  For the poor were his own kind
  And they'd never let them get near enough
  To take him from behind
  To take him from behind
  
  So they hired one of the traders trade
  And an informer was he
  And he sold his brother to the butchers men
  For a fistful of silver money
  For a fistful of silver money
  
  And Jesus sat in the prison cell
  And they beat him and offered him bribes
  To desert the cause of his fellow man
  And work for the rich men's tribe,
  To work for the rich men's tribe
  
  And the sweat stood out on Jesus' brow
  And the blood was in his eye
  When they nailed his body to the Roman cross
  And they laughed as they watched him die
  They laughed as they watched him die
  
  Two thousand years have passed and gone
  Many a hero too
  But the dream of this poor carpenter
  Remains in the hands of you
  Remains in the hands of you  

--- Line breaks <br> and <pre> </pre> tags added---
---Jeff (PA)---