Help: Want to get my first Banjo...Help neede

Subject: Want to get my first Banjo...Help needed
From: GUEST,frank rade
Date: 22 Dec 01 - 05:04 AM

My name is Frank Rade. I am 21 years old and currently attending college. Fact is I have always enjoyed bluegrass and old country. Now, ask me who's who, and chance is I won't know. All I do know is I like my music. I am thinking of getting a Banjo (pretty much made up my mind) for X-mas. What I want to know is what would be a good Banjo to start with? There are so many out there, it's kinda hard to know. And as stupid as it may seem, a 21 year old just starting Banjo playing, I just think it would be awesome. Tons of people play guitar, or sax, or any number of instruments. But to me, Banjo just has a soul all its own. One literally founded in the roots of this country. Anyhow, tell me what you think and any advice, and trust me, it will be greatly appreciated. Thanks once again and I hope to hear from you soon...Frank Rade

Subject: RE: Help: Want to get my first Banjo...Help neede
From: Banjer
Date: 22 Dec 01 - 05:39 AM

Well, Frank, what I would suggest before investing mega bucks in a bnajo, or any instrument for that matter, go to the local pawn shops and see what is available. You can usually pick up an instrument reasonably inexpensively and rework it little. I bought my first banjo like that for $60 and still use it today. It required restringing, but that is all. Then if you feel that you made a correct choice and want to go on to bigger and better things there are banjos that range in the thousands of dollars. I suppose it all depends on your individual ideals. What part of the country are you in? (that may have a bearing on the availability of used instruments) Good luck with it...

Subject: RE: Help: Want to get my first Banjo...Help neede
From: gnu
Date: 22 Dec 01 - 05:40 AM

I'm thinking the same thing, so, I'd like to double up on this thread. The music I will be playing with mine is Irish Trad and Troubles tunes... Tommy Makem would be the best "description". What banjo should I start with ?

Subject: RE: Help: Want to get my first Banjo...Help neede
From: gnu
Date: 22 Dec 01 - 05:44 AM

Banjer... always good advice to start with second hand shops and the like. However, if you could offer input as to what type, size, whatever, of banjo suits certain genres, it would be appreciated. My apologies if this request is inane, but I really don't know jack about banjos.

Subject: RE: Help: Want to get my first Banjo...Help neede
From: Banjer
Date: 22 Dec 01 - 05:59 AM

I have two banjos. One is an old aluminum pot Harmony dating to the 1960's as near as I can tell. The resonator has been removed and it is nylon strung. I use it for the minstrel effect. Sounds sort of muted and according to my mentor 'a lot like the skin head and catgut banjos used to sound'. The other one I have is a steel strung resonated banjo which I also picked up in a pawn shop. It has a wood tone ring. I a learning (or trying to learn) three finger picking on it. (I use clawhammer on the other one) Occasionaly I attempt to combine clawhammer with picking. The purists look down their noses at me, but I figure many styles of playing have evolved over the years that were not once accepted. That is the most important thing I can pass on to Frank or anyone else. Play how you feel it sounds good, do your own thing, ENJOY what you do or doing it will be meaningless.

Subject: RE: Help: Want to get my first Banjo...Help neede
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 22 Dec 01 - 06:15 AM

Frank, what sort of budget have you got?

From what I gather from reading here and alt.banjo is that the Deering Goodtime is regarded as a good first time banjo and an instrument that will take you further. Gold Tone are another make that are gaining a lot of praise.

Jon

Subject: RE: Help: Want to get my first Banjo...Help neede
From: Banjer
Date: 22 Dec 01 - 06:23 AM

Jon makes a good point...The Good Time by Deering is a good beginning banjo. I had a chance to play one sometime ago. However, budget not withstanding, I would still recommend buying a inexpesively as posibble to see if it really suits you, or if it may just be a 'flash in the pan' That incidently is how I got started with the banjo, my wife and I were both being tutored by a friend of ours. Me on guitar and she thought she would like banjo. I bought that $60 one for her at a local pawn shop. Eventually it was decided that my fingers were not meant to fret a guitar, she lost interest in the banjo, and I wound up with it instead!

Subject: RE: Help: Want to get my first Banjo...Help neede
From: GUEST,Butch (at work)
Date: 22 Dec 01 - 10:19 AM

If you know how two check a banjo for neck setting, then a pawn shop may be a good idea. Depending on where you live, though, finding a pawn shop banjo for under $175 may be hard. The days of the $60 banjo are about over.

The Deering is a great choice for two reasons: 1) It comes with the backing of the Deering Company. If it is not right, they will make it right. In this way you don't get stuck with a bad banjo.

2) It comes set up and ready to go. If yu want to play bluegrass, get the resonator model. If you want old time, go with the open back. Either one will be set up correctly and ready to play right from the start.

I have bought many pawn shop banjos, they can be great, BUT they can also be a pain if you get stuck with the one that no one could get to play right. Some banjos go to pawn shops because the owners need money, some go because no one else wants them. Make sure you know which is what before you buy.

Subject: RE: Help: Want to get my first Banjo...Help neede
From: John P
Date: 22 Dec 01 - 10:54 AM

I agree with what Butch said -- you can get great instruments for great prices from a pawn shop, put you can also get complete pieces of crap. If you can take someone who knows banjos shopping with you it can be good. If you don't know what you are looking at, beware.

I work for a instrument building company in Seattle that also operates an acoustic music store, so I've had the opportunity to play on a lot of banjos in a lot of price ranges. The Deering Goodtime banjos are always very good instruments for the money. The Gold Tones are good as well, but I'd probably go with the Deering just because the company has such a good reputation for quality work and good after-sale support (rarely needed).

Most people use open back banjos and clawhammer style for old time mountain music, and resonator banjos and three-finger picking style for bluegrass. But as Banjer said above, everyone should play the instrument and the style that makes sense to them. Or make up your own style. As long as it sounds nice, you can cheerfully ignore the "rules".

John Peekstok

Subject: RE: Help: Want to get my first Banjo...Help neede
From: John P
Date: 22 Dec 01 - 11:00 AM

Oh yeah, gnu:
For Irish music you may want to look at a four string tenor banjo, and play it with a pick. Five string clawhammer style can be good (if somewhat unconventional) for Irish song accompaniment, but it doesn't work so well on anything in 6/8 time.

JP

Subject: RE: Help: Want to get my first Banjo...Help neede
From: gnu
Date: 22 Dec 01 - 11:08 AM

Thanks guys... great advice... just what I was looking for.

Subject: RE: Help: Want to get my first Banjo...Help neede
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 22 Dec 01 - 12:43 PM

I used to recommend the Deering Good Time to all my students, but I've started to notice something over the last year. Their necks appear to get a tad unstable with time. I've seen a noticeable warping in a couple of the banjos that folks bought a couple of years ago.

From now on I'm recomending the SAGA frailing banjo. It's pretty new on the market, is solid as a rock and has a fine sound. I'm also impressed with Gold Tone's efforts lately. As far as having "The company behind you", I don't think that's much of a factor now. I'd rather have an off-shore banjo that's got a really stable looking neck, than be asking a repair person to try and fix a warped neck that can only be straightened by shaving or heating.

Rick

Subject: RE: Help: Want to get my first Banjo...Help neede
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 22 Dec 01 - 12:44 PM

gnu, I think Tommy Makem only played 5 string banjo so that may give you a pointer. As for your description of the music, I'd guess the Dubliners fit your description. They used both - Luke Kelly played a 5 string which he used for chordal accompanyment and Barney McKenna plays tenor banjo both as melodic accompayment and for the jigs, reels, etc. If you have any Dubliners recordings with Luke Kelly on, you might care to listen to how the 2 instrements were used.

There are a small number of people who can make a 5 string sound like a tenor in playing jigs and reels but I would imagine it is very difficult. The clawhammer style John P mentioned does sound quite different but it is a nice style in its own rights.

Jon

Subject: RE: Help: Want to get my first Banjo...Help neede
From: GUEST,Chip A.
Date: 22 Dec 01 - 01:05 PM

For an example of incredible clawhammer banjo in 6/8 time, give a listen to "Island Boy" by Ken Perlman. Several fine jigs on here as well as waltzes and reels.

Subject: RE: Help: Want to get my first Banjo...Help neede
From: CraigS
Date: 22 Dec 01 - 01:51 PM

The majority of Irish players use the shorter scale (around 24 in) banjos with a plectrum and four strings; some of these are old, and built to take five strings, but the fifth string is not fitted. Many trad jazz players use long-scale banjos and leave the fifth string off in the same way.

Subject: RE: Help: Want to get my first Banjo...Help neede
From: catspaw49
Date: 22 Dec 01 - 02:08 PM

Frank Rade....Though I'm telling this to Rick and all, assume this is info for you too.

Rick, have you seen what the folks that brought you the BlueRidge Guitar and the Kentucky Mandos are up to now? Note this is tied up with Saga too somehow, but if putting their name on somethig means anything like it does on the BR guitars and Kentucky Mandos, then CHECK THIS OUT. Nice features and lots of them and the lineage would indicate that this might be a fine piece for the price!.....and a damn good price to boot!

Anybody played one? I have a feeling it's pretty similar to the Saga Rick mentioned but less expensive perhaps?

Frank, pawn shopping is a helluva' lot of fun, but mostly those guys are pretty aware nowadays of what they have and unless you are pretty knowledgeable and handy, I'd take the advice of others and go with something like this BlueRidge. Damn nice banjo for not many bucks....and deealing with Elderly is a safe bet, we all use them some and they are trustworthy folks and very helpful....excellent reputation.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Help: Want to get my first Banjo...Help neede
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 22 Dec 01 - 02:11 PM

Craig, I think you will find that the tenor banjos favoured by Irish players have a shorter scale length than that. I have just looked at Sully's site and found 3 sizes on offer there. They are 23" 19 fret, 22" 19 fret and 21" 17 fret. My tenor is a 21" 17 fret which I find easier than the 19 fret models.

Jon

Subject: RE: Help: Want to get my first Banjo...Help neede
From: Charcloth
Date: 22 Dec 01 - 11:25 PM

OK, Tommy Makem plays an open back & the banjo seen on the cover of the Clancy Brothers Greatest hits (with Lou Killen) is a long neck variant. These are quite rare & rather expensive & for myself I don't find the long neck that helpful. This is the type of banjo Pete Seeger used & his style is similar to Tommy Makem's. The frailing style sounds much like the Seeger style & the main difference between the two is the direction (up or down) the first note is plucked.
some say you can't do jigs on a 5 string but as mentioned Ken Perlman does quite well on one. a good book for beginners is "Frailing the 5 string banjo" by Eric Muller & Barbara Koehler. Another is by Tony Sullivan & I can't remember the name but he has two books, one is for the 5 string & the other is for the tenor (or 4 string.)
Regarding what banjo to purchase, for Clancy Brother's sound you should look for an open back but not rule out a resonator. The Saga appears to be a nice banjo for the money. In fact I am wanting to trade my bluegrass banjo off for one. At any rate you will probably trade it later for a better one.
back in 1977 I tried the bluegrass style & spent $400 on a banjo I just couldn't get it. Frustrated I traded this new banjo off for a used $100 guitar. a few years later I tried again & this time with a used $70 banjo & the frailing style & I found success. lesson learned: start with an inexpensive but quality instrument so if it doesn' work out you won't lose out if you trade it off for either a better one or just to try another project.
Good luck, Jeff

Subject: RE: Help: Want to get my first Banjo...Help neede
From: GUEST,This is style I most like...
Date: 22 Dec 01 - 11:52 PM

I am very partial to the old bluegrass "twang" type of sound. Something best heard in songs like beverly hillillies and dueling banjos. Maybe not the best examples but good enough to give you a idea of what I'm shooting for. With this info, what type of banjo should I be looking for specifically?

Subject: RE: Help: Want to get my first Banjo...Help neede
From: Banjer
Date: 23 Dec 01 - 03:47 AM

I am very partial to the old bluegrass "twang" type of sound

A five string resonated is what makes that sound. Again, as others have already said, buy inexpensive instruments and if it doesn't work out, you won't be out a king's ransom. Then later if it does work out, upgrade to whatever you feel you can afford.

Subject: RE: Help: Want to get my first Banjo...Help neede
From: GUEST,Allan S.
Date: 23 Dec 01 - 01:39 PM

Can anyone identify this banjo THat I picked up new at a flea mkt.??? 5 string, Resonator back,truss rod in neck. All new and shiny However there are NO maker names or any Identification anywhere. In the head stock is a Pearl [probably plastic] maple leaf. also a 6 sided inlays above the at 3rd, 5th. 7th 10th 12, 15, 17 frets look like pearl but again probably plastic also white plastic strip down side of the neck as well as top and bottom of the resonator It looks as tho it was made in the orient Japan? china? Does anyone know what it is a aprox cost new???? Thanx Allan

Subject: RE: Help: Want to get my first Banjo...Help neede
From:
Date: 23 Dec 01 - 04:49 PM

My first banjo is still sitting up at my Mom's house in Oregon. It was a cheap japanese Orlando resonator 5 string from the 60s. Heck, I'd take $80 for it if I had it here now. I don't like the sound because it doesn't have a tone ring, but my wife thinks it sounds good. My first good banjo was and is my Stew-Mac kit banjo. I assembled it myself. they don't sell the kits anymore, but you can find a used one sometimes for a couple hundred bucks, and if the assembler did a good job, it is a bargain. Oh yeah, Stew-Mac is short for Stewart-MacDonald. They're still in business in Ohio.

Subject: RE: Help: Want to get my first Banjo...Help neede
From: Charley Noble
Date: 23 Dec 01 - 05:30 PM

Just want to put in another plug for Elderly Instruments in Lansing, Michigan; check out their website for both new and vintage banjos. If you're feeling really bold, search for old banjos on E-Bay but that takes a lot of faith and judgment. Good luck!

Subject: RE: Help: Want to get my first Banjo...Help neede
From: Guessed
Date: 24 Dec 01 - 05:36 AM

learn a suite of bodhran, melodeon, guitar and fiddle jokes, you don't need any banjo jokes everyone else will tell them to ya.
go easy on the volume in sessions till you find what works. Have fun.

Subject: RE: Help: Want to get my first Banjo...Help neede
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 24 Dec 01 - 06:10 AM

Saga is good. I have a Saga kit. cost $100 back in the late 70's. I love it's sound; also have an Alvarez which has nylon guitar strings (first four and first again for five) for that thumpy sound. I'm sure that you can find a used one of almost any quality and style. Music Folk in St. Louis has had nice quality OLD old timey banjos from time to time. Elderly's prices are so-so to high. Their on-line listings don't seem to change much and "On order delivery date unknown" seems like a standard "note" from them.

But seek, brother, and ye shall find and welcome to the banjar community and you have stated an excellent reason for wantin' "in". Hardly anyone (sane) plays a banjo. Yeehaaa!

CB

Subject: RE: Help: Want to get my first Banjo...Help neede
From: GUEST,wAYNE
Date: 24 Dec 01 - 06:21 PM

If you happen to be in the Baltimore area have I got a deal for you! I have a Kay resonator type that I bought in a used instrument store. I've since "moved up" to a Deering Goodtime open back.

Subject: RE: Help: Want to get my first Banjo...Help neede
From: gnu
Date: 24 Dec 01 - 06:28 PM

WOW ! The 'Cat never ceases to amaze me ! Thanks again for all the great advice and discussion. I'm going to be armed with loads of info when I go searching for my first banjo early in the new year.

Subject: RE: Help: Want to get my first Banjo...Help neede
From: 53
Date: 24 Dec 01 - 07:52 PM

how is a tenor bango tuned? like the first 4 strings on the guitar or what? BOB

Subject: RE: Help: Want to get my first Banjo...Help neede
From: GUEST,guestin
Date: 25 Dec 01 - 01:55 AM

Tenors used be in C, the short ones, and G, the long necked models.

Not exactly certain about the C, but the G is tuned like a Fiddle, G D A E.

I suppose the C would be the same.

If you plan to use a plectrum work on the tension until it is easy to Pick. If wrong you will miss hit notes.

When correctly set up the Pick will bounce off of the string and it is not hard to learn from a Tutor which shows all the Pick markings. I have an old book by Sully including these instructions. Sometimes they don't make sense but the tunes sound better picked in that way.

btw I use a Vega with an old tuning, D A E F#. I call it lazy lefty tuning since I can reach lots of high notes without reaching up the neck.

Hope that helps

Subject: RE: Help: Want to get my first Banjo...Help neede
From: oombanjo
Date: 25 Dec 01 - 04:37 AM

I see you have all the advise you need, but try to get hold of Tony Sullivans 5 sting banjo its a mix of old timey and folk. It will help you crack rythem patterns OOMBANJO

Subject: RE: Help: Want to get my first Banjo...Help neede
From: GUEST,BigDaddy
Date: 25 Dec 01 - 05:58 AM

There was a similar thread posted on October 24, 2001. It was titled, "Help: Seeking banjo advice (be kind)." I'm too tired to post a link just now, but it was a good thread.