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Australian/American songs: similarities
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Subject: RE: Australian/American songs: similarities From: Midchuck Date: 06 Sep 11 - 07:59 PM During the 1800's Australia and Americian had a lot of cross migration, besides sailors and whalers jumping ship. Before the Califorian Gold Rushes there were a lot of Australian Convicts that had escaped or migrated to the West coast of Americian, then During the Califorian Gold rush many Free Settlers from Australia joined in the rush. When Australia Gold rush started many from the Califorian gold fields followed the gold and came to Australian Gold fields, then when the gold rush in Australia settled down many moved back to Americia for the Alaskian and Yukon gold rushes and many returned for the Kalgoorlie and Palmer gold rushes Google "Thomas Francis Meagher". Irish Nationalist, convicted of sedition, transported for life. Escaped, made it to America, ended up a Brigadier General in the Union Army in the Civil War, then acting Governor of Montana Territory. All before drowning in the Missouri at age 43... Peter |
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Subject: RE: Australian/American songs: similarities From: Joybell Date: 29 Jan 11 - 06:01 PM Thanks, Sandra. A key point about printed sources during the 19th century in relation to Australia is that -- the American fast clippers could get the sheet music here faster than the British ships could. However even with this in mind, my studies of popular songs(early 1800s to 1870ish)show a much larger proportion of sheet-music written by Americans like Henry Clay Work, Stephen Foster, William Shakespeare Hays etc. in Australia than songs by English composers. Not that I actually count them but I've always had the inclination to seek out sources and piece together old puzzles. Cheers, Joy from near one of the Valleys-of-Plenty. |
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Subject: RE: Australian/American songs: similarities From: Bob Bolton Date: 27 Jan 11 - 08:32 PM G'day Freda, That's an interesting 'translation' ... but we have to ponder just how much of that came from the local language speaker ... and how much might have been read in by the Gubba writing it down. It might well be that the cross-language exchange involved the name (which is obviously going to be some 'description' of the area being asked about ... and "a valley with a good river" might well mean, in practical and pragmatic terms, exactly the same as a "valley of plenty". It might also depend on whether the scribe is an ethnographer ... or a real estate developer! Regard(les), Bob |
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Subject: RE: Australian/American songs: similarities From: freda underhill Date: 25 Jan 11 - 04:54 AM a bit of linguistic burrowing has unearthed this.. The name Eumarella is a corruption of Numarella, an Aboriginal word for .. valley of plenty. freda |
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Subject: RE: Australian/American songs: similarities From: Bob Bolton Date: 24 Jan 11 - 09:53 PM G'day again, Oh yes ... and I forgot to carry on that Ring the Bell Watchman then acquired words about the older style blade-shearing (before machine shears) of Australian wool sheep - as Click Go the Shears ... ... and then, in 1966 when Australia changed to decimal currency, we found ourselves being serenaded by the Government's 'jingle' In Come the Dollars, In come the cents ... to the same tune and rhyme structure! Regard(les)s, Bob |
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Subject: RE: Australian/American songs: similarities From: Bob Bolton Date: 23 Jan 11 - 05:34 PM G'day (Guest) Nina Berry, There are a few other rivers about the eastern end of Australia with similar names. I suspect that Eumarella / Numarella and such are each local Australian Aboriginal names ... probably meaning something quite like ~ "the river"! By the goldrush days (post-1850) literacy was pretty near universal ... overseas mail and publications arrived regularly ... ordinary people were beginning to earn more than a mere living wage ... and American sheet music was prolific (and often 'pirated' from British originals, as the USA has a long history as the great copyright pirates of the Western world! Genuinely American composers (e.g. Henry Clay Work / Stephen Foster / &c., &c.) were big influences on the popular taste ( ... and tune ...) and some remained popular here far beyond their "5-minutes fame" back home in the USA, eg H. C. Work's Ring the Bell, Watchman, which celebrated the end of the (American) Civil War ... and was subsequently forgotten - at home when it ceased to be news. However, the song remained published in Australian compilations for many decades after ... became thought of as a "hymn" - then was found to fit nicely to the rhythm of the newly popular "Barn Dance" (a version of the older Military Schottische ... influenced by an American music sheet ~ Dancing in a Barn ... and, as Ring the Bell, (Watchman) remained the staple tune for a social Barn Dance for the next century! We should never fall into the trap of confining our ideas to (hoped for) narrow sources! Regards, Bob |
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Subject: RE: Australian/American songs: similarities From: The Sandman Date: 23 Jan 11 - 01:47 PM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5w75f_Lz_Ahttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5w75f_Lz_A it reminds me of an American tune cant think what? |
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Subject: RE: Australian/American songs: similarities From: Sandra in Sydney Date: 22 Jan 11 - 11:04 PM Billy Barlow =================== joy - URL = http://warrenfahey.com/barlow/ IMPORTANT - don't omit the front bit, ie. http:// 2. past full URL in link URL line 3. type in text 4. Create link 5. DON'T cut & paste as it tells you instead COPY & paste & voila - a workable blue clicky appears ----------- If you omit the http:// the blickifier adds mudcat's URL in its place cos it thinks you are referring to a page in www.mudcat.org so you get something like http://www.mudcat.org.warrenfahey.com/barlow/ sandra |
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Subject: RE: Australian/American songs: similarities From: Joybell Date: 22 Jan 11 - 07:19 PM Yes indeed Nina -- Yambuk is just south-west of us and people out here sang this song as "The Eumeralla Shore". They also sang "Darlin' Nelly Grey" as singers did all over Victoria. The influence of the American song-sheet market, during the 19th century, on Australia has been very much under-rated. Just to tie up another loose end -- the "Billy Barlow" songs can be studied on Warren Fahey's website. Sorry, blue clickies don't work for me even after intensive help. Cheers, Joy |
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Subject: RE: Australian/American songs: similarities From: GUEST Date: 22 Jan 11 - 02:15 AM Hope you're still looking this site up,Bob. There is a Eumarella Beach in Victoria, at the mouth of the Eumarella River near Yambuk on the Great Ocean Road, and a Numarella in NSW, just outside of Cooma. The Penguin Collection of Australian Folk Songs compiled by John Manifold and first published in 1964 has the opening line of the song as "There's a long green gulley by the Numarella shore, where I've lounged through many is the day". A friend purchased a property by the river in Numeralla, NSW, and his district map of the area showed an area called "The Long Green Gully", so that seems to to be the district that the song was written about. Nina Berry |
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Subject: RE: Australian/American songs: similarities From: Percustard Date: 23 Jun 02 - 07:32 PM Hi all, This is a good thread. If a little off track toward the end from the original title of the thread. There are a few other threads on Craigielea and Waltzing Matilda in Mudcat. I agree with Bob. Indeed, (shameless plug alert) my band Tursacan does a rendition of Craigielea which segues into Waltzing Matilda (in 5.4 - there is a 5.4 bar in Macpherson's "original"). It is interesting how song origins get "muffled" and "muddled" over the centuries. It is sometimes very hard work getting to the heart of the matter and putting together an arguable case based on "facts" and rational induction. Its like genealogy in song!
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Subject: RE: Australian/American songs: similarities From: Art Thieme Date: 23 Jun 02 - 04:36 PM Yet another great thread that I had missed other times around. Lately it is too damn easy to miss the golden needles in the huge haystack that Mudcat has become---even when I'm looking for those. Thanks for keeping this alive long enough for even me to notice it. Art Thieme |
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Subject: RE: Australian/American songs: similarities From: Bob Bolton Date: 21 Jun 02 - 08:12 AM G'day Bruce & Stewie, John Meredith was always adamant that Waltzing Matilda was widely known, long before Paterson 'wrote' it. He was also equally adamant that the tune had no resemblance to Bonny Wood of Craigielea ... and that there was no evidence of the 'cock and bull story' of it being written at Dagworth in 1895. Since then (based on Richard Magoffin's researches, recently released McPherson familt letters and papers and the holograph copies of the 1895 song and tune that I have had access, to), I have shown how the successive versions - WS Barr's original Craigielea - Thomas Bulch's 1893 'quick march' arrangement of Craigielea - Christina McPherson's holograph version of the tune as she remembered it from hearing the Bulch arrangement at Warnambool Races - and the Marie Cowan ("Billy Tea') arrangement ... all progress in logical steps from each other. John and I had to agree to disagree on this one. John's belief in the antiquity of the song is mostly a product of his good country manners - he would never doubt the word of an older informant. Unfortunately, for there to have really been an older Waltzing Matilda ... based on a much older Marlborough ... - and for these to have totally escaped the attention of an energetic British collecting fraternity ... and, particularly, for not one person to have commented on the existence of older versions at the time that Waltzing Matilda was spread round the English-speaking world by Australian troops in WW I would be truly remarkable. All the claims to its existence cited by the writers mentiones above come from at least a whole generation after the publication of Waltzing Matilda ... usually rather more! As we are getting a lot more information than any of the pioneer folklorists had access to ... and finding the personal details on Paterson's love life (the reason that Magoffin seems to have dropped the research ... !) the real story takes on some all too solid flesh! (and Marlborough marches over some distant hill.) Regards, Bob Bolton |
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Subject: RE: Australian/American songs: similarities From: Stewie Date: 20 Jun 02 - 09:23 PM John Manifold wrote quite extensively on the 'Waltzing Matilda' story in chapter 5 of his fascinating little book 'Who Wrote the Ballads: Notes on Australian Folksong' Australasian Book Society 1964. Manifold said he relied for facts, but not judgments, on Sydney May's 'Story of Waltzing Matilda' (1955 edition), family tradition and his own discoveries. Well worth a read for those interested. --Stewie. |
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Subject: RE: Australian/American songs: similarities From: GUEST,Bruce, Melbourne Australia Date: 20 Jun 02 - 11:13 AM According to John meredith & Hugh Anderson book "Folk songs of Australia and the Men and Women Who Sang Them" that Arther Buchanan and a Fred Sloane learn Waltzing Matilida well before Paterson was meant to have written it according to the Paterson-Macpherson legend. What most people fail to remember that Paterson was a collector of "Old bush Songs" during that period and eventually published in 1905 a book titled "Old Bush Songs Composed and Sung in the Bushranging, Digging and Overlanding Days". It is quite possible that Paterson heard the song, cleaned up and/or added to the words and was looking for a tune to go with it. what supprise me as someone who has read a lot of Paterson verse is that Waltzing Matilda isn't in a similar style. Bruce
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Subject: RE: Australian/American songs: similarities From: Bob Bolton Date: 20 Jun 02 - 08:53 AM G'day Walrus, Snatches of the "Marlborough" song were collected by John meredith from the families of WW I soldiers. These clearly could date back to WW I, but the only evidence of greater antiquity is the family statement that "Grand-dad knew and he said it was very old ..." Pete Coe's fragment comes from this group of post-WW I snatches of song - probably from one of the Australian books that tried to argue that these were signs of some "proper" English ancestor to Waltzing Matilda ... he made the rest up to flesh it out ... and, I think, discovered he had created his own Frankenstein's Monster! Regards, Bob Bolton |
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Subject: RE: Australian/American songs: similarities From: The Walrus at work Date: 20 Jun 02 - 08:22 AM Bob, "...The mythical "Marlborough" song only appears decades after the real Waltzing Matilda ... probably a WW I parody by either Aussies or Poms ... remembered and back-shifted by the children and grandchildren of ANZACs...." As I recall, Pete Coe found a chunk of the first verse in the early 1970s and wrote the rest of the song to a tune he thought *might* have been around, "Strawhead" recorded it (with some alteration to the lyrics)[1] and it is this version which has gained popularity. So "Gay Fusilier" (or whatever title is used) well post dates WWI (let alone Marlborough). Tom [1]Possibly believing it to be an old piece |
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Subject: RE: Australian/American songs: similarities From: Hrothgar Date: 20 Jun 02 - 07:10 AM Ooh, nice, Stewie. Couple of verses I haven't seen before! |
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Subject: Lyr Add: GENTLE ANNIE From: Stewie Date: 19 Jun 02 - 09:34 PM Hrothgar mentioned an Australian version of 'Gentle Annie'. In the Australian outback Foster's piece became a bird of a very different wing. There are several variants, but the text of an unusual one was given to Danny Spooner by Dave Lumsden who said his family tradition had that it was written for his grandmother's sister, but that he believed it was probably written for a friend - both girls were 15 at the time. The words were by Jack Cousens who was an itinerant worker around the Murray River in the 1890s. Cousens spent much of his time with the travelling steam-driven threshing machines that travelled from town to town.
GENTLE ANNIE --Stewie. |
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Subject: RE: Australian/American songs: similarities From: rich-joy Date: 19 Jun 02 - 08:31 AM Oh dear, Bob, I think I may have had a bit too much of the Black Stuff to r'ember that now!!! But Danny Spooner would know - coz he asked Katie (Harrison) to sing it at the session!!! Cheers! R-J |
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Subject: Lyr Add: FAREWELL TO JUDGES AND JURIES From: Hrothgar Date: 19 Jun 02 - 05:02 AM Words for "FAREWELL TO JUDGES AND JURIES" from "farewell to Old England" by Hugh Anderson, Rigby Limited, Adelaide, 1964. No tune given.
Here's bad luck to you, Mr. Justice Paley,
To go to a strange country don't grieve me,
There's the captain that is our commander,
Dear Polly, I'm going to leave you
If ever i return from the Ocean,
How hard is the place of confinement,
How often I wish that the eagle Punctuation as published, not mine. Broadside reference given as:
4o. Preston, Harkness (c. 1820)
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Subject: Lyr Add: BOTANY BAY From: Percustard Date: 19 Jun 02 - 01:36 AM BOTANY BAY 2 From http://www.crixa.com/muse/songnet/011.html Come all young men of learning, a warning take by me I'll have you quit night walking and shun bad company I'll have you quit night walking, or else you'll rue the day And you will be transported and be sent to Botany Bay I was brought up in London town, a place I know full well Brought up by honest parents, the truth to you I'll tell Brought up by honest parents, who loved me tenderly Till I became a roving blade, to prove my destiny My character was taken and I was sent to goal My parents tried to clear me, but nothing would prevail 'Twas at our Rutland sessions the Judge to me did say The jury's found you guilty; you must go to Botany Bay To see my poor old father, as he stood at the bar Likewise my dear old mother, her old gray locks she tore And in tearing of her old gray locks these words to me she did say O son! O son! What hast thou done, Thou art bound for Botany Bay Notes This version collected by the great English collector Cecil Sharp early this century. It is closely related to 'The Transport' also in this collection. See also 'Girls of the Shamrock Shore'. |
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Subject: RE: Australian/American songs: similarities From: Percustard Date: 19 Jun 02 - 01:32 AM Anyone got the words and tune to 'Fairwell to Judges and Juries'?
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Subject: Lyr Add: BOTANY BAY From: Percustard Date: 19 Jun 02 - 01:27 AM From http://www.crixa.com/muse/songnet/010.html BOTANY BAY Farewell to old England forever Farewell to my rum culls as well Farewell to the well known Old Bailey Where I used for to cut such a swell Singing Tooral liooral liaddity Singing Tooral liooral liay Singing Tooral liooral liaddity And we're bound for Botany Bay There's the captain as is our commander There's the bosun and all the ship's crew There's the first and the second class passengers Knows what we poor convicts go through Taint leaving old England we cares about Taint cos we mis-spells what we knows But because all we light fingered gentry Hops around with a log on our toes These seven long years I've been serving now And seven long more have to stay All for bashing a bloke down our alley And taking his ticker away Oh had I the wings of a turtle dove I'd soar on my pinions so high Slap bang to the arms of my Polly love And in her sweet presence I'd die Now all my young Dookies and Dutchesses Take warning from what I've to say Mind all is your own as you toucheses Or you'll find us in Botany Bay Notes First published in Sydney Golden Songster in 1893 This song is a burlesque, written by Stephens and Yardley, from the comedy 'Little Jack Shepherd' that played in London in 1885, and in Melbourne in 1886. 'Botany Bay' shares two verses with 'Fairwell to Judges and Juries' a broadside c.1820 |
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Subject: RE: Australian/American songs: similarities From: Bob Bolton Date: 18 Jun 02 - 07:45 AM G'day, (Oops esprit de l'excalier again) rich-joy: Was your friends "Botany Bay" the same words ... or was it the older song "Farewell to ye Judges and Juries" ... much more minor and serious ... but clearly ancestral to "Botany Bay", which was written for an 1880 London Music Hall play "Little Jack Shepherd"? Regards, Bob Bolton |
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Subject: RE: Australian/American songs: similarities From: songsearch Date: 17 Jun 02 - 06:27 PM Spanish Ladies I suppose it is to be expected but all songs go full circle ad infinitum. We`ll rant and we`ll roar like Palace supporters, We`ll drink pints of lager all during the match. We`ll boldly cry out "The refs. a blind bastard" Then we`ll fight the police and kick, bite and scratch |
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Subject: RE: Australian/American songs: similarities From: GUEST,Bruce, Melbourne Australia Date: 17 Jun 02 - 10:12 AM During the 1800's Australia and Americian had a lot of cross migration, besides sailors and whalers jumping ship. Before the Califorian Gold Rushes there were a lot of Australian Convicts that had escaped or migrated to the West coast of Americian, then During the Califorian Gold rush many Free Settlers from Australia joined in the rush. When Australia Gold rush started many from the Califorian gold fields followed the gold and came to Australian Gold fields, then when the gold rush in Australia settled down many moved back to Americia for the Alaskian and Yukon gold rushes and many returned for the Kalgoorlie and Palmer gold rushes Bruce D |
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Subject: RE: Australian/American songs: similarities From: Bob Bolton Date: 17 Jun 02 - 08:44 AM G'day Rich Joy, I posted the Australian Exile of Erin some years back ... not by the author of the Irish/American one ... but clearly modelled on it - probably by someone from the south west of Ireland (from the place references). The furphy about Who'll go a'soldiering ... is dead in the water - the real source is clearly (well documented and accounted by a variety of non-friendly sources!) as described by Paterson & Christina McPherson. The mythical "Marlborough" song only appears decades after the real Waltzing Matilda ... probably a WW I parody by either Aussies or Poms ... remembered and back-shifted by the children and grandchildren of ANZACs. Regards, Bob Bolton |
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Subject: RE: Australian/American songs: similarities From: Hrothgar Date: 17 Jun 02 - 06:02 AM "The Wallaby Brigade" is to the tune of "Tramp Tramp! Tramp!" - subtitled "The Prisoner's Hope." There's a song by (American) Ed Clifford called "Billy Barlow" but I can't read music, and I've never heard it sung, so i don't know how it compares to the Australian "Billy Barlow" (by Bnjamin Griffin???). The structure of the words reads as fairly similar. There is a lovely Autralian song to Foster's "Gentle Annie," using the same title. I think the Australian version comes form somewhere down in Victoria, but I wouldn't hold that against it.
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Subject: RE: Australian/American songs: similarities From: greg stephens Date: 17 Jun 02 - 03:06 AM |
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Subject: RE: Australian/American songs: similarities From: rich-joy Date: 17 Jun 02 - 01:48 AM I heard a friend at the last National in Canberra do a rather poignant version of "Botany Bay" (i.e. not the usual rollicking tune), where the tune sounded like it was related to "Wrap Me Up In My Oilskins and Jumper (or Stockwhip and Blanket)" - forgot to ask her the source though ... "The Plains of Emu (An Exile of Erin)" must surely be from an Irish choon!! And "The Banks of the Condamine" was related to "The Banks of The Nile" ... And wasn't one of the choons of "Waltzing Matilda" from "Who'll Come A-Soldiering With Marlborough and Me" (or something like that, anyway ...) Cheers! R-J |
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Subject: RE: Australian/American songs: similarities From: Percustard Date: 16 Jun 02 - 11:34 PM Anyone know of any Australian/Celtic songs with such similarities? |
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Subject: RE: Australian/American songs: similarities From: Bob Bolton Date: 31 Oct 00 - 09:35 PM G'day Siân, I hold down the 'alt' key and type: 0226 (must be on the number pad). There is a whole second set of alternate letters, particularly accented vowels in the ASCII set and they can be used with various codes. I use this set of 'alt' codes. I can send you and image of the second page for a standard font, if you wish. It looks a little complex, but believe me - it's a lot easier than typesetting in Vietnamese (which I have done!). They have 126 extra accented vowels - some with 2 or even three accents simultaneously. Regards, Bob Bolton |
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Subject: RE: Australian/American songs: similarities From: sian, west wales Date: 31 Oct 00 - 07:08 AM Bob (Sián? ... Siàn?) Both ... it's supposed to be a circumflex over the "a" but I don't know how to do it on this! I'll be interested to hear if you find anything more about this! sian
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Subject: RE: Australian/American songs: similarities From: Bob Bolton Date: 31 Oct 00 - 06:36 AM G'day Sian (Sián? ... Siàn?),
Thanks for that information. That is the tune of the Canadian song I mention above with the lines:
Well the weather had been freezing for a fortnight's time or more, and the similarities to our Another Fall of Rain suggest that there is a common ancestor palced between them and the original hymn. It is handy to know the correct name - this will make it easier to find the hymn. Regards, Bob Bolton
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Subject: RE: Australian/American songs: similarities From: sian, west wales Date: 31 Oct 00 - 05:04 AM Bob, yes, that's the one. Quite a standard piece in our family - well, the Canadian side anyway. Cornish / Irish Methodists n.e. of Toronto. Obviously also popular out on the Canadian prairies ... I don't think I have it in any books at home (in Wales) but I'm pretty sure that Mum has it in - is it the Seth Parker Hymnal? An oldie and goodie. If I come across any historical notes, I'll let you know. sian |
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Subject: RE: Australian/American songs: similarities From: Bob Bolton Date: 30 Oct 00 - 08:38 PM G'day,
Sian: Is I have found a friend in Jesus the hymn which contains the line: Callie: Insofar as folk lore gets anything 'right' or 'wrong' ... yes. There is a place called Numeralla and it is in New South Wales, which is where the song originates. Eumeralla could be any of: a mis-spelling, an old spelling of a badly heard Aboriginal word for the area or a totally different place that doesn't make it onto my map. Regards, Bob Bolton |
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Subject: RE: Australian/American songs: similarities From: Callie Date: 30 Oct 00 - 05:12 PM I know the song as "Numeralla Shore". Are "Eumeralla" and "Numeralla" one and the same place? |
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Subject: RE: Australian/American songs: similarities From: sian, west wales Date: 30 Oct 00 - 04:49 AM So *Another Fall of Rain" is the same tune as *Little Old Sod Shanty on my Claim*? Which in turn in the hymn tune, *I have found a friend in Jesus*? sian |
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Subject: RE: Australian/American songs: similarities From: Bob Bolton Date: 29 Oct 00 - 09:28 PM G'day Dan, That's a good point. We should remember that the respective Gold Rushes provided a lot of interchange between Australians and Americans. Hargraves, credited with finding gold in Australia (although many had found traces before ... and he only found it through the work of the Toms brothers) had been to California and learned what to look for and how to get it. Australians had flocked to California and, in turn, many Americans came out to look for gold in Australia. Their songs must have passed both ways. A good example was quoted by Helen - The Golden Gullies of the Palmer, a song of an 1870s rush set to the tune of Marching thro' Georgia. Then, American professional troupes, such as black-face minstrels, came out and performed the latest American 'hits' on the goldfields. Gold rush towns were hungry for entertainment and Gulgong, one of the earliest gold towns, had (and still has) an Opera House. Down at the sharp end of history the interplay was also important. When the miners rebelled against oppressive licence fees at Ballarat in 1854, the British Army held off from taking the Eureka Stockade until the American Ambassador assured them that he had persuaded "The American Revolver Brigade" to withdraw their support and weapons. Regards, Bob Bolton |
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Subject: RE: Australian/American songs: similarities From: GUEST,Liam's Brother Date: 29 Oct 00 - 07:40 PM Some Australian songs entered into tradition in the USA and Canada about a hundred years ago. "Bold Jack Donahue" and "The Wild Colonial Boy" are two that come to mind. Fred Redden in Nova Scotia sang "Moreton Bay."
All the best,
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Subject: RE: Australian/American songs: similarities From: Bob Bolton Date: 29 Oct 00 - 06:04 AM G'day again, Helen, This just occurred to me ... We talk about "folksongs", but we need to remeber the effect of American popular music of the day. Henty Clay Work, who wrote Marching Through Georgia, was essentially a popular song writer - widely published and sung. He also wrote The Ship That Never Returned - a song parodied in at least one Australian song The Hardy Bushman about a timber cutter blowing his cheque at the pub, and of course, Ring the Bell Watchman, the model for our national 'potboiler' Click Go The Shears. Many other American writers of popular song are represented by Australian 'parodies' ... songs using established models but adapted to new places and facts. Regards, Bob Bolton |
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Subject: RE: Australian/American songs: similarities From: Bob Bolton Date: 29 Oct 00 - 06:02 AM G'day again, Helen, This just occurred to me ... We talk about "folksongs", but we need to remeber the effect of American popular music of the day. Henty Clay Work, who wrote Marching Through Georgia, was essentially a popular song writer - widely published and sung. He also wrote The Ship That Never Returned - a song parodied in at least one Australian song The Hardy Bushman about a timber cutter blowing his cheque at the pub, of course, Ring the Bell Watchman, the model for our national 'potboiler' Click Go The Shears. Many other American writers of popular song are represented by Australian 'parodies' ... songs using established models but adapted to new places and facts. Regards, Bob Bolton |
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Subject: RE: Australian/American songs: similarities From: Bob Bolton Date: 29 Oct 00 - 05:43 AM G'day Stewie,
Another Fall of Rain seems to also have a Canadian cousin to the same tune and sharing a common structure. I was lstening to an ABC programme of Canadian music and I heard a song start:
An obvious relation to our song starting: There must be many other similarities. A recent thread (about Musselburgh Songs ...) looks at songs with the tune used Lachlan Tigers, The Shearers' Cook, Knickerbocker Line, The Great Northern Line and The Sandy Hollow Line. There is an Americam/Canadian Great Lakes song The Bigler's Cruise that also uses that tune - but relates most closely to Sam Larner's The Dogger Bank. Regards, Bob Bolton
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Subject: RE: Australian/American songs: similarities From: Stewie Date: 29 Oct 00 - 04:05 AM The 'Slim Dusty song' referred to above in this thread by Murray - 'Can I Sleep in Your Barn' - was an American tramp song of unknown origins. It was collected several times by Robert W. Gordon in North Carolina in 1925. It was recorded in the 1920s by Charlie Poole, Vernon Dalhart, McFarland & Garland and others. Many of the old-time American recordings were released in Australia. 'Another Fall of Rain' uses the 'Little Old Log Cabin in the Lane'/'Little Joe the Wrangler' tune. --Stewie. |
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Subject: RE: Australian/American songs: similarities From: Bob Bolton Date: 28 Oct 00 - 11:30 PM G'day Helen, I don't know how this thread got "GUESTed" back up, but I just glanced at it before I ave to ead off to John & Dale Dengate's 60th birthdays bash. One quick item before I digest the whole thread is that Sweet Betsy FRom Pike uses the English music hall Villikins and His Dinah tune that is used for Dinky Di! and one version of A Nautical Yarn. Eumarella Shore that BillD quoted apparently uses an old Methodist hymn tune He is the Lily of the Valley, He's the Bright and Shining Star. I thought this lost in the mists of hymnological time until I mentioned it a my Monday Night Session and Sharyn Mattern sang the whole hymn! Any, I will look through this in detail - although you may now know far more than when you raised the thread. Regards, Bob Bolton |
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Subject: Lyr Add: THE EUMARELLA SHORE^^ From: Bill D Date: 07 Mar 98 - 07:32 PM I am surprised...I did a search on "Eumarella Shore" and fond only one reference to it on the net...just a mention that it is part of some choir's repetoire. So, here it is ...an Australian 'duffing' song... direct from the USA! The Eumarella Shore
There's a happy little valley on the Eumarella Shore
When the moon has climbed the mountain, and the sun is shining bright,
If we find a mob of horses when the paddock rails are down; |
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Subject: RE: Australian/American songs: similarities From: Helen Date: 07 Mar 98 - 07:29 PM Dick, Thanks. I didn't know that. I just had a look at that tune and I don't recognise any of the titles as being Australian. Also, Bill D, I don't know which Botany Bay song you were referring to, either. Any more info? Lyrics, etc? Helen |
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Subject: RE: Australian/American songs: similarities From: dick greenhaus Date: 07 Mar 98 - 06:54 PM There's a trick. To find out all the songs that share a tune, , type the tunefile name (you get this from any on of the songs--it's VILDINAH in this case) with an asterisk before it: *VILDINAH in the search box. |
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Subject: RE: Australian/American songs: similarities From: Helen Date: 07 Mar 98 - 06:47 PM Tim & Bill D, I don't know the songs which are based on these tunes that you both mentioned. Star of the County Down Barbara Allen (I know these songs but not the others with the same tunes) Betsy from Pike - I listened to this on the DT database and it sounds familiar but I can't identify the other song/s using this tune Can you both enlighten me some more, please? Helen |
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