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how to play and sing together!!
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Subject: how to play and sing together!! From: ermintrudeclaire Date: 26 Dec 01 - 09:23 AM hello everyone - another really basic question for which i apologise! i can (just about) strum the chords in a tune, or play the melody line to quite a few songs but when i try to sing along as well it all goes to pot! any tips or is it just purely practise and keep going? thanks everyone |
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Subject: RE: how to play and sing together!! From: GUEST,Hilary Date: 26 Dec 01 - 09:55 AM Hi Ermintrudeclaire, My tip would have been to sing as well as play from day one -not to later try to add in singing. I'm only a few weeks into learning the guitar myself. I can't play the bodhran & sing at the same time at all. Perhaps initially stick to songs you sing without having to think about too much, so your fingers are getting all available attention ???? Have fun, Hilary (can't log in) |
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Subject: RE: how to play and sing together!! From: Crane Driver Date: 26 Dec 01 - 10:02 AM It really is a matter of practise, practise, practise. The best way is to know the song to sing first, then try accompanying it later. That way, there's less chance of the accompaniment pulling your voice away from the song. Accompaniments that follow the melody line are, for me, easier to sing to - rhythmic accompaniments that cut across the tune confuse me. That's why I gave up guitar for concertina, but maybe I'm just weird. Don't be put off - you've got to play and sing badly for long enough to become good. So play badly some more. Otherwise you'll never get better. Good luck in your music, Andrew |
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Subject: RE: how to play and sing together!! From: ermintrudeclaire Date: 26 Dec 01 - 01:00 PM thanks for the help hilary and andrew- i dont think i will ever play anything other than badly anyways, but i find it easier to sing to the melody line - like my mouth and hands are doing roughly the same thing!! i cant get the chords to fit in with the words at all. but i will perservere cos i am enjoying myself!!! |
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Subject: RE: how to play and sing together!! From: GUEST,Donal Date: 26 Dec 01 - 01:58 PM Practise as long as you enjoy doing so then srop when you get fed up. That way you'll always come back for more. Feel what you sing and if you can't (if you don't believe in what you're singing), sing something else. Never fake it. Don't underestimate singing unaccompanied. It can enchant. When you're on the bus, imagine yourself singing and playing. Want it lots. The universe grants wishes. Good luck |
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Subject: RE: how to play and sing together!! From: 53 Date: 26 Dec 01 - 02:32 PM pick out a few basic songs and work on them, over and over, but not to the point of being sick of them, always leave your guitar practice with something that is enjoyable to you, after all that's why you are learning to play. BOB |
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Subject: RE: how to play and sing together!! From: Don Firth Date: 26 Dec 01 - 03:31 PM Mostly it's a matter of practice. But always, whether you're just starting or you've been playing and singing for fifty years, learn the song first. Unless you just want to be an instrumentalist, the song is what it's all about. You can't really say you know a song unless you can sing it without accompaniment. Once you have that down nice and solid, then work out an accompaniment. You'll find the whole process is a lot easier and more enjoyable that way. There are a number of advantages to this, one of which is that you can sing the song whether you have your instrument with you or not. And as Donal says, don't underestimate singing unaccompanied. Many of the finest traditional ballad-singers sing without accompaniment, and it can be very powerful. Good luck and keep sluggin'. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: how to play and sing together!! From: 53 Date: 26 Dec 01 - 07:36 PM i think that to sing and play the guitar is awesome, i seen some great singers, but it has always been great when they can play too. BOB |
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Subject: RE: how to play and sing together!! From: wysiwyg Date: 26 Dec 01 - 09:38 PM Play songs you already sing well and start trying with those... Sing with someone else playing lead and you play just backup to try singing along... Avoid tricky-rhythm pieces till you get the hang of this, such as dotted notes, since you would sing the dots but strum the straight time. I dunno why but I think waltzes were easiest for me at first. You have to really hear the whole song in your head, and play and sing along with THAT. ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: how to play and sing together!! From: 53 Date: 26 Dec 01 - 09:44 PM glenda and i have just finished playing and singing some carols, and some other songs, waltzes were among the ones we did tonite such as silent night, away in a manger, and jingle bells, glenda had a guitar b-day today she's been playing for 9 months and she's really doing very good. BOB. merry christmas susan, and to all a good night. BOB AGAIN. |
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Subject: RE: how to play and sing together!! From: Ebbie Date: 26 Dec 01 - 10:17 PM I have a friend who doesn't actually strum along with her songs- she just hits the appropriate chord as the tune hits that note. It works for her. Took me quite awhile to realize that that's what she was doing. She's a little woman with a BIG voice so I don't imagine many notice - or care- that her guitar work is pretty sparse, especially when she has someone else accompanying her and her guitar. |
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Subject: RE: how to play and sing together!! From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 26 Dec 01 - 10:34 PM My guess is: 1: The song you are playing and trying to sing is outside your key. 2: You are tone deaf.
Solutions:
B. Go to the "Net" try all sorts of different combinations of keys (given that You CAN play in different keys)
C. Get a "Capo" and bridge it on down....somewhere you WILL find your key.
Problem #2 |
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Subject: RE: how to play and sing together!! From: Steve in Idaho Date: 26 Dec 01 - 11:26 PM Just takes practice - I tend to learn songs with my instrument. I can sing without it but rarely do. When I first started I practiced for weeks on one song and one day it just clicked. Another thing I did was find songs with only two chords. Made it easier to learn the timing without having to worry about changing chords so much. "This Old Man" is a great one for that. Mostly practice I think for me. Steve |
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Subject: RE: how to play and sing together!! From: Blackcatter Date: 26 Dec 01 - 11:39 PM I worried about this for years and then I say B.B. King in an interview. The reporter asked him how he had developed his particular style of playing a bit of lead guitar and then singing and then playing a bit of lead guitar. B.B. said, matter-of-factly, that he couldn't learn to play guitar and sing at the same time. I realizeddd that if it was good enough for B.B., it was good enough for me. I currently sing unaccopmanied and play the tin whistle and jews harp either for instrumentals or to begin a song. I have also found someone who plays wonderful guitar, likes the same music I do and is perfectly happy to let me sing lead 2 out of 3 songs. Unfortunately, he's an airline pilot and isn't in town very often. pax yall |
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Subject: RE: how to play and sing together!! From: Terry K Date: 27 Dec 01 - 02:01 AM Ermintrudeclaire, you seem to have the same problem as me. I'm OK (just!) to play the chords but not to fit the words of the song to the strumming. What I find is that I naturally tend to strum on the accented words so the strum pattern goes to pot; then if I try to concentrate on the strum pattern the words go to pot! I think you really do have to divorce the singing and the strumming in the early learning stage - see them as two separate parts of the whole (I stress, just for the initial learning stage). The best I have done so far is to establish a strum pattern and play the chords over and over, then write down the strum pattern and overlay the words so that the exact word or part of the word appears at exactly the right strum. If this all seems a bit mechanical - it is! But without any musical talent it's the only way I can work it, and it soon starts to relax. Hopefully there will be some more enlightened advice than I can offer - I need it myself. Cheers, Terry |
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Subject: RE: how to play and sing together!! From: ermintrudeclaire Date: 27 Dec 01 - 07:34 AM terry - thank god there is someone else who has problems - most people i know seem to pick up my guitar - which admittedly is gorgeuos - and play and sing a song making it sound quite whole!! i have a great teacher who kepps me motivated and heaps on the praise for every little acheivement but sadly i thin guest-gargoyle might be right and i am probably tone deaf!! while i enjoy it i shall carry on playing but only in private i think!! thanks everyone for the help - i love mudcat!! |
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Subject: RE: how to play and sing together!! From: Mudlark Date: 27 Dec 01 - 12:37 PM I agree with gargoyle, finding your right key is imperative. I have a low voice and find G, A, and E easiest to sing in. I also agree with Don, that it is important to find songs you care about...I started out with simple 2 chord songs, like I Am a Lonely and a Lonesome Traveler and Drunken Sailor, songs where the rhythm is fairly obvious yet not clunky (I long ago realized I'd never make it if I practiced songs I didn't like). It is a bit like rubbing your stomach while patting your head, but the pleasure that results from getting it right, even for a measure or 2, will provide lots of motivation. |
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Subject: RE: how to play and sing together!! From: Don Firth Date: 27 Dec 01 - 04:40 PM Many months ago (last March, I think), someone posted a link to a website where you could check and see whether or not you were tone-deaf. It was a "Distorted Tunes Test," and it had to do with twin research and innate musical ability. There were twenty-five or so very well-known tunes, some were correct and some were goofed-up by a few notes. The test was to listen to the tunes and mark off which ones were right and which were not. If you got them all right, you were not tone deaf. I tried to find the thread on Mudcat without luck, and I've just run a google.com search for it, and although I found references to the test, I couldn't find the test itself. If someone remembers this and knows the URL, it's worth posting again. Before assuming that you're tone-deaf, it might be worth your while to spend an hour or so with a good, knowledgeable (and sympathetic) musician—someone who can at the very least read music and knows some music theory, preferable a qualified voice teacher. A voice teacher can tell if you're tone-deaf or not, and assess your vocal range. 1. -- If you can hear a note and duplicate the pitch (assuming it's in your range), you're not tone-deaf. 2. -- As far as keys are concerned, make the guitar accommodate you voice, not the other way around. Above all, don't give up too easily. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: how to play and sing together!! From: 53 Date: 27 Dec 01 - 08:20 PM it just takes time, rome wasn't built in a day,just spend time with it and it will come, but i agree, you do need to find your corect keys and stick with them, i've been playing guitar for 37 years now and have never been doing any serious singing until this last year or two, and i've really learned a lot and i'm tickled that i found that i can actually sing some songs pretty decent. BOB |
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Subject: RE: how to play and sing together!! From: Bert Date: 28 Dec 01 - 01:32 AM The real answer is "Ask Rick" but seeing as he hasn't got here yet, try some of those two chord tunes that change at the end of each line like Jambalaya. There was a whole thread about them a while back. |
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Subject: RE: how to play and sing together!! From: SharonA Date: 28 Dec 01 - 05:54 PM I disagree with Bert. I've been playing guitar (while singing) for over 25 years, and I can never make heads or tails of any of Rick's instructional threads – sorry, Rick, but it's true! ermintrudeclaire: So far, the people who have posted to this thread have given very sound advice. Here's my two cents' worth: Find a relatively simple song that you can sing from memory AND that you like, and practice strumming along with your singing... then practice some more. For now at least, don't worry about picking out the melody on guitar; just concentrate on singing the words while keeping the rhythm by strumming. If you "mess up", don't stop! Keep singing the song and let your strumming hand find the rhythm again. When you're at the point where you can sing several of these simple songs all the way through while strumming, THEN think about things like picking out the melody while singing along with it (which has always been more difficult for me!). If you really think you may be tone deaf, follow the advice given above (especially the suggestion to use a capo on the neck of your guitar to find a key that's comfortable for you), but please don't throw up your hands and say you'll never play in public just because someone who's never heard you sing or play says you MIGHT be tone deaf!!!!! Above all, have fun with your music, and don't let anything anyone else says spoil your fun. Sharon |
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Subject: RE: how to play and sing together!! From: 53 Date: 28 Dec 01 - 08:50 PM just remember, it's you that you have to please. BOB |
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Subject: RE: how to play and sing together!! From: Mudlark Date: 28 Dec 01 - 10:32 PM Re tone deaf....have a friend that insisted she's tone deaf...was TOLD so as a child, told to just mouth words in the chorus, etc. One day not long ago, while sitting in the car at the beach, as she was going on about this, I said...Open your door....she did so and the seat belt tone came on. I said, Now SING THAT! And of course, she did...right on the money. Tone deaf...NOT. Adults have a lot to answer for!! |
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Subject: RE: how to play and sing together!! From: GUEST,DrWord ~ no cookie Date: 28 Dec 01 - 11:49 PM One of SharonA's tips is _SSOOOOO VITAL_ that it bears repeating: If you "mess up", don't stop! Keep singing the song and let your strumming hand find the rhythm again. If, while practising, you stop the song, what you are practising is stopping, which is waaaaaaay counterproductive. 40 years of pickin', learned this lesson late. :( One other observation is about distributed versus massed practise. Fifteen minutes a day every day will produce more results than marathon practises once a week. I can distinctly recall thinking I'd never be able to sing and play together. ermintrudeclaire, you _will_ get it. You've got a trove of tips from this thread and I wish you joy in your music. Dennis |
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Subject: RE: how to play and sing together!! From: Kaleea Date: 29 Dec 01 - 12:15 AM Some sing & play at the same time, others do one or the other. It's all Ok, it's about enjoying the music. If you have a true desire to sing & accompany yourself playing the guitar & do both well, then I suggest you seek a competent guitar instructor who uses a well rounded method book such as the Mel Bay class method --lots of different sections re: strumming chords in many keys, arpeggio fingerpicking, "blues", playing melody by reading the notes. And of course, the strumming & arpeggio accompaniment are for SONGS, which are meant to be sung, and the book will have the melody notes, chords, and words. Or, you might attempt to use a similar such method book on your own, but if you need assistance, a good instructor is one who guides the student through the basics, allowing the student to develop his/her style & preferences, and of course encouraging the student to play with other musicians, and perform for eager listeners, such as senior citizens, especially in a group of other musicians. Seek out a "slow jam" or a beginner friendly jam in your area. Ask friends to get together with you & play & sing familiar songs--at a reasonable tempo, not lightening speed. In other words, just keep on pickin' & singin'! Good luck. |
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Subject: RE: how to play and sing together!! From: Bert Date: 29 Dec 01 - 12:37 AM But Sharon, you don't NEED Ricks's instructional threads. You play and sing like an angel. I know, I've had to get up on stage and follow you a couple of times and I've had to muster every bit of courage to get up there with my three chords. |
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Subject: RE: how to play and sing together!! From: GUEST,Bud Date: 29 Dec 01 - 06:51 AM I have never been able to master singing and playing the fiddle at the same time. No problem with the other instruments. |
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Subject: RE: how to play and sing together!! From: Hilary Date: 29 Dec 01 - 07:42 AM Now you mention it, Bud, I don't think I've ever seen anyone sing & play the fiddle at the same time. H |
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Subject: RE: how to play and sing together!! From: GUEST,Bud Date: 29 Dec 01 - 08:13 AM It's an old-timey thing: Mike Seeger, Bruce Molsky, Grayson & Whitter, the Highwoods String Band, and many more. I have to stop fiddling when I sing. |
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Subject: RE: how to play and sing together!! From: 53 Date: 29 Dec 01 - 01:22 PM roy acuff used to sing and he also played the fiddls, but at the same time, i guess it would be kind of diffuclt. BOB |
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