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Subject: RE: Origins: Shenandoah From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 19 Sep 06 - 11:50 PM That reminded me- aYears ago my grandfather watched a scene in a western where four men were walking down a board sidewalk. He commented that it wasn't realistic because you couldn't hear their heels striking the wood. In his day, there were only leather heels and anyone walking on a board sidewalk made a racket if they walked normally. |
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Subject: Origins of Shenandoah From: JedMarum Date: 20 Sep 06 - 12:27 PM There used to be another thread on this subject, but you can n longer post to it - so I thought I'd continue the disucssion here. I had been asked the source of the lyrics I'd posted,lyrics that seemed to tie the Indian Nation history to that of the Civil War, and it seems to me the battle of Pea Ridge, as we now call it. Here's the answer I posted to the broken thread: There's a little shop in Atoka OK, called the Confederate Museum. Here's the link. I drive by it on my way to Kansas City and points North. I stopped in one day and visited. Browsed the museum and the shop. Bought a book and ran into an old boy and his dog at the rest stop. He'd stopped for lunch apparently but was playing his guitar and singing as I was heading out - so I stopped, listened and chatted for a while. He played the song with those words, as near as I remember. I asked him about the story and he said he'd learned it that way. Said he didn;t know the history. I wrote it down as soon as I got back into my truck.
-Joe Offer- |
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Subject: Lyr Add: SHENANDOAH From: JedMarum Date: 20 Sep 06 - 12:30 PM Here're the lyrics I posted to the old thread: It starts out with a typically first 2 verses, then: At Talequah on the reservation Far away you rolling river I joined General Pike and the Cherokee Nation Away I'm bound away Across the wide Missouri The Yankees came to Elkhorn Tavern Far away you rolling river The Southern hopes and nations shattered Away I'm bound away Across the wide Missouri Oh Shenandoah I love your daughter Far away you rolling river The Cimmeron and Red Fork waters Away I'm bound away Across the wide Missouri |
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Subject: RE: Origins of Shenandoah From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 20 Sep 06 - 03:36 PM ? The very interesting Talequah verses you posted in thread 4257, Origins: Shenandoah, are accessible. (I have refreshed that thread, which was running a day or so ago. I think the problem may be that you posted as Guest "Jed on a borrowed PC" (02 Aug 06, 08:44AM), so the post does not show on your list of posts. Or am I missing something? I checked the closed posts, and found nothing applicable. The pre-1910 anecdotal references to non-chantey versions are numerous enough that I think proof should be found before too long. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Shenandoah From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 20 Sep 06 - 03:37 PM Refresh |
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Subject: Lyr Add: SHENANDOAH From: Nigel Parsons Date: 26 Sep 06 - 03:47 PM So many versions. Let's add one more Nigel SHENANDOAH Sea Shanty Shenandoah, I love your daughter, A-way, you rolling river! Shenandoah I long to hear you; A-way we're bound away 'Cross the wide Missouri The ship sails free, a gale is blowing A-way, you rolling river! The braces taut, the sheets a-flowing A-way we're bound away 'Cross the wide Missouri Shenandoah, I'll ne'er forget you A-way, you rolling river! Till I die, I'll love you ever, A-way we're bound away 'Cross the wide Missouri These words from Community Sing-Song Book Two: Published by Keith Prowse & Co Ltd (these arrangements copyright 1927) NP |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Shenandoah From: JedMarum Date: 27 Sep 06 - 11:49 PM you could 'em all together and record an entire CD: one song! |
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Subject: RE: Song info: Shenandoah From: GUEST,Jo Jo Tater Date: 02 Dec 06 - 03:25 PM What would be the version if it was sung during the time of the Civil War? |
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Subject: RE: Song info: Shenandoah From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 02 Dec 06 - 04:07 PM Quien sabe! |
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Subject: RE: Song info: Shenandoah From: GUEST,Jo Jo Tater Date: 02 Dec 06 - 05:25 PM Peut-être certains viendront le long qui I've read all of the posts--all of them. I'm hoping someone will drop in to reveal the answer, if there is one. |
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Subject: RE: Song info: Shenandoah From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 02 Dec 06 - 05:47 PM Since a verified version from that time has not been found, only speculative answers can be given. See post by Lighter, 29 Jan 05. Don't give up hope; anecdotal reports suggest that it may be out there, as yet undiscovered. |
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Subject: RE: Song info: Shenandoah From: GUEST,bjtinney Date: 03 Dec 06 - 03:33 PM Wow! What amazing information and great references! Thank you to everyone who contributed. This song has a long tradition and history. I hope there is some way to preserve this information for the coming ages. If it is this hard to trace the information today, then in the next 50 years it will be impossible. And I remember singing it in the 5th grade too! As well as the movie with James Stewart. Today - I heard it played on a PBS broadcast - Celtic Woman. It was a beautiful rendition played on a violin. But I couldn't remember the words... thanks to everyone who helped restore my memory and more! |
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Subject: Lyr Add: SHENANDOAH From: Lighter Date: 03 Dec 06 - 04:27 PM W. B. Whall and John Robinson each knew at least one version of "Shenandoah" learned apparently in the 1860s, though neither writer is absolutely specific on this point. Robinson went to sea about 1859 and Whall a few years later. Both began learning shanties immediately. Whall's version, not published till 1909 or '10, is similar to Hugill's version "b" that begins, "Oh, Missourah, she's a mighty water." Hugill says that this pattern, with its "skipper" and "maiden," was "very popular at sea." Robinson's text, published in 1917, starts on a more familiar note, yet manages to be more "literary" as well as less interesting. The great melody must have encouraged various sets of words ad lib from early on: Shenandoah! I long to hear you-- Hurrah! you rolling river. Oh, Shenandoah! I long to hear you-- And hurrah! we're bound away! On the wide Missouri! Seven long years since I lost Dinah; I've searched seven years. I cannot find her. 'Twas down in Shenandoah's sweet valley, Where first I met and courted Sally. To Shenandoah I am returning, My heart for thee is ever burning. When wide Missouri's call is over, I will go back and stay forever. Robinson says, "I have endeavored to carry the spirit and the sense of the originals into the words I have written down." How much of his "Shenandoah" is from the '60s and how much may result from later "reconstruction" is, regrettably, not clear. |
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Subject: Lyr Add: SHENANDOAH From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 07 Apr 07 - 05:06 PM Version of the chantey, in French, from Scouts website, France. Lyr. Add: Ô SCHENANDOAH Scoutspremiere, France T. = Chorus, S. = Solo 1. S. Ô Schenandoah, sachem des Prairies T. Au loin, sur le fleuve d'or, S. Ô Schenandoah, sachem des Prairies. T. Il part sur son canot, sur le grand Missouri. 2. S. Ô Schenandoah, sachem des Prairies T. Au loin, sur le fleuve d'or, S. Ô Schenandoah, j'aime ton enfant. T. Il part sur son canot, sur le grand Missouri. 3. S. & Oh mon enfant, écoute ton coeur T. Au loin, sur le fleuve d'or, S. & Oh; mon enfant, écoute ton coeur. T. Il part sur son canot, sur le grand Missouri. 4. S. Oh laisse-nous partir tous les deux T. Au loin, sur le fleuve d'or, S. Oh laisse-nous ensemble être heureux. T. Partir sur son canot, sur le grand Missouri. 5. S. Oh mes enfants, soyez donc heureux T. Au loin, sur le fleuve d'or, S. Oh mes enfants que le Ciel vous garde.. T. Partir sur son canot, sur le grand Missouri. Not sure, but there may be minor errors in the web text. I have not changed it. Scout songs Or direct to song- Schenandoah |
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Subject: Lyr Add: THE WIDE MISSOURI / SHENANDOAH From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 11 Jun 07 - 05:58 PM As "The Wide Missouri," Shenandoah appeared in Davis and Tozer, 1887. Lyr. Add: THE WIDE MISSOURI Davis and Tozer, 1887, in "Sailor's Songs or Chanties." Solo Oh, Polly Brown, I love your daughter, Chorus Away my rolling river! Solo Polly Brown, I love your daughter, Chorus Ah! ah! we're bound away 'Cross the wide Missouri. 2. Solo Oh, Polly's girl just took my fancy, She's clipper built, her name is Nancy 3. Solo She lives alone in London City, Perhaps you'll think it more's the pity 4. Solo I take her coral beads and laces, I love to call her "Queen of Faces" 5. Solo The ship sails free, a gale is blowing, The braces taut, the sheet's a-flowing (sheets?) 6. Solo Oh! Polly Brown, I love you dearly, My heart is yours, or very nearly No. 4, p. 10, of the 3rd revised edition, 1910, but unchanged from the 1st Ed. of 1887. Frederick J. Davis and Ferris Tozer, "Sailors' Songs or "Chanties," Boosey & Co., Ltd. London. |
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Subject: RE: Song info: Shenandoah From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 12 Jun 07 - 02:06 PM Unusual line in this verse of Shenandoah-Shenandore-Wide Missouri: SHENANDORE (fragment) Shenandore, I love your daughter; Away you rolling river; We're bound for the green fields and the mossy River; Ah, ha, ha, I'm bound away across the wide Missouri. William H. Smith Collection;, "Sung aboard vessels out of Liverpool, Nova Scotia, in the 70's, 80's and 90's,." Smith sailed aboard vessels carrying lumber and fish to the Caribbean and South America; also as a carpenter and rigger in Liverpool shipyards. Edith Fowke, ed., 1981, "Sea Songs and Ballads from Nineteenth Century Nova Scotia: The William H. Smith and Fenwick Hatt Manuscripts," p. 24,; Folklorica, NY & Phila. |
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Subject: RE: Song info: Shenandoah From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 14 Jun 07 - 05:50 PM Lyr. Add: SHANNYDORE Oh, Shannydore, your good wife Carrie, Away, my rolling river! She says your daughter I may marry, Ha ha, we're bound away Across the wide Missouri. Oh, Shannydore, I love your daughter, Away, my rolling river! I'll take her across the stormy water, Ha ha, we're bound away Across the wide Missouri. Robert Frothingham, editor, 1924, "Songs of the Sea and Sailors' Chanteys," Houghton Mifflin. |
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Subject: RE: Song info: Shenandoah From: masato sakurai Date: 15 Jun 07 - 04:53 AM From "Sailor Songs," by William L. Alden (Harper's new monthly magazine. / Volume 65, Issue 386, July 1882, p. 283): One of the best known of the windlass songs was the "Shanandore": |
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Subject: RE: Song info: Shenandoah From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 15 Jun 07 - 02:46 PM The original is still unknown. Alden is one of many who speculated on the origin. The Missouri also appears in early versions; it should be noted that the Missouri was an important artery, first for flatboats, but before the time of the Civil War was carrying a large number of steamboats. Several writers have speculated that the song originated with early shipping on the Missouri. In 1852, the boilers of the steamboat Saluda exploded at Lexington and 200 passengers and crew perished. The ferry at Lexington, an important crossing, was started in 1819. The river was considered especially treacherous. Lighter posted the lyrics from Alden in '05 in this thread. He noted that Alden, writing in 1882, speaks of the song being known 30 years before. Versions like Polly Brown (posted above) could point to another possible origin. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Shenandoah From: GUEST,Jim Longley Date: 27 Dec 07 - 09:38 PM I only found out recently that my old friend from my Newport days (1967 thru 1970) had passed away. I sang a little country, folk, and sea chanty at the Black Pearl with Jody Gibson (I was just an unknown sailor) and he even invited me up on stage with him a couple of times to accompany him on songs that needed two instruments. Hadn't been back to Newport since 1991 and hadn't been in touch with Jody for longer than that - that city sure did change. Is anyone here in touch with either of Jody's daughters? I would like to get in touch with Joyce if I could and I can't locate her on the web. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Shenandoah From: GUEST,knowitall Date: 20 Jun 08 - 06:16 PM Shenandoah is PROBABLY an early 19th century shanty song that has evolved lyrically through the past two centuries to fit the needs of the musician performing the piece. The intoduction of the word Missouri into the piece most likely stems from the western migration of early pioneers, most probably from the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia. It is inconcievable that such a popular old song would not have changed at all from its beginnings until now. It is impossible to portray an accurate history of such a piece without any verifiable written documentation |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Shenandoah From: Art Thieme Date: 03 Oct 08 - 08:33 PM I'm still partial to the version I sang and posted way up above in this thread. Whew, that was 1998--------------and we're still here. Best regards to all of us survivors! Art Thieme -- October 3rd, 2008 |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Shenandoah From: GUEST,Tunesmith Date: 04 Oct 08 - 08:11 AM I haven't read many of the above postings, but - if this hasn't been raised before - surely there is a big connection between Shanandoah and Shallow Brown |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Shenandoah From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 05 May 09 - 08:40 PM The New York Times, January 27, 1884, p. 10. Article, "Minstrelsy On the Sea. Songs Which the Real Sailor Sings at His Work." ....... "The following is one of the most popular of the shanties: Shanadore is my native valley Chorus- Hurrah, rolling river. Shanadore, I love your daughters, Chorus- Ah-ha, bound away, 'cross the wide Missouri. For seven long years I courted Sally, Chorus- Hurrah, rolling river. Seven more and I could not get her, Chorus- Ah-ha, bound away, 'cross the wide Missouri. Seven long years, I was a 'Frisco trader, Chorus- Hurrah, rolling river. Seven more I was a Texas Ranger, Ah-ha, bound away, 'cross the wide Missouri. "These unattractive lines were set by some dead-and-gone old salt, who must have been a genius in his way, to a wild air which is really beautiful." Also mentioned- "Stormalong," "Lowlands Away," a transformed "Marching Through Georgia," the parlor song with the non-relevant chorus "I Was Bound for the Rio Grande," "Leave her, Johnnie, Leave Her," "Hanging Johnny," "Whiskey Is the Life of Man," "Paddy Doyle" (with variants), and one about the packet "Dreadnaught," a forecastle song. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Shenandoah From: GUEST,Steve O'Terry Date: 11 Feb 10 - 08:58 PM Wow! I've had a ball reading through this thread today. I've recently discovered this melody (yes, I live a secluded life) and have recently been looking fervently for a definitive version of the lyrics. However, I have had no luck in such a search until I found this thread. Here I found a bunch of variants and I picked versions and stanzas that struck my fancy. After much borrowing and stealing and adding my own interpretation of the story I came up with the following lyrics. Nothing earthshattering here but I like this one a lot. I do it in couplets with breaks in between. My $.02: Now the Missouri is a mighty river Away, you rolling river And you'll find Indian camps along her border Away, I'm bound away 'Cross the wide Missouri 'Twas there I fell in love with a beautiful keegsquaw Away, you rolling river She was the daughter of Chief Shenandoah Away, I'm bound away 'Cross the wide Missouri It's been seven years since first I knew her Away, you rolling river Now she's in full bloom for a man to woo her Away, I'm bound away 'Cross the wide Missouri Oh Shenandoah, I've come to see you Away, you rolling river Oh Shenandoah, may I speak with you Away, I'm bound away 'Cross the wide Missouri Oh Shenandoah, I love your daughter Away, you rolling river I want to take her 'cross yon rolling water Away, I'm bound away 'Cross the wide Missouri Oh Shenandoah, with gifts I'm laden Away, you rolling river Please give me the hand of this fair maiden Away, I'm bound away 'Cross the wide Missouri Then Shenandoah said you must forsake her Away, you rolling river For an Indian brave has come to take her Away, I'm bound away 'Cross the wide Missouri Oh Shenandoah, I'll not deceive you Away, you rolling river Farewell my love I'm bound to leave you Away, I'm bound away 'Cross the wide Missouri |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Shenandoah From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego Date: 12 Feb 10 - 12:14 PM Anything that lasts this long and is so pervasive in the musical repertoire must contain very special qualities. "Shenandoah" seems a great example of the "folk process." Its roots may be lost in obscurity; perhaps originally an adaptation using the melody of a familiar nautical song. It has been "gentrified" with strings and choruses added, made into a theatrical and motion picture theme, played on a harmonica in numerous olf "B" westerns of the 1930's and '40's and sung around campfires ad nauseum. Yet, though many verses and variants have undoubtedly been added, it remains a stalwart part of the folk song book and is still much loved. The melody is the key, at least to me. It speaks lyrically of longing and lonliness and could, even without words, convey those feelings. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Shenandoah From: GUEST,HB out west Date: 16 Oct 10 - 09:21 PM Here's a peice of documentary info that's interesting if not explanatory on this topic. I didn't notice it while scanning previous posts but may have just missed earlier references, because it would be surprising not to have this on here yet. So maybe this is old news, but there is a very famous (at one time, anyway) Pulitzer prize winning nonfiction book about the western fur trade in the late 18th and early 19th century entitled Across the Wide Missouri by Bernard De Voto, first published 1949. De Voto was a highly noted scholar and author of many books on American History. The frontispiece of the book presents a three verse version of the song he apparently thought was itself entitled Across the Wide Missouri. So he actually named his most famous book after the song, and the song is posted without any attribution or explanation about authorship or history,etc., traditional or otherwise. Considering that this guy was a famous historian, writer and educator and unquestionably wanted to be careful with information, documenting stuff assiduously, it seems that 1n 1949 he certainly thought that these were the lyrics of a very old traditional song indigenous to his subject. He didn't say that though, and of course he could have been wrong about it anyway. Here are the first lines of each verse as he chronicled them: Oh, Shennydore, I long to hear you; 'Tis seven long years since I first seed 'ee; Oh, Shennydore, I love your daughter; |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Shenandoah From: Slag Date: 16 Oct 10 - 10:45 PM This is by far, one of the best threads I've read to date here at the 'cat. Most of it appears scholarly, at the very least knowledgeable. Intuitively I would opt for a rowing song as it has a flexible cadence, a roll if you will, for those long strokes together that a team must make if they want to get anywhere. Now my two cents: I remember my Dad singing this song in the mid 50's. I'm not sure but the version I remember had the words "for seven long years, I courted Saray (ser-ee) A-way you rolling river and for seven more I've tried to leave her, A-way, I'm bound a-way across the wide Missouri". My Dad and his brothers were all great singers as was my Grandfather (beautiful tenor voice) and I'm told that my Great Grandfather was also a singer so there is a musical tradition that goes back quite far. As to the origins of this most lovely song, I'll stay tuned. Thanks all. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Shenandoah From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 16 Oct 10 - 10:49 PM See my post of 05 May 09 and earlier posts by Lighter and Masato. The "Shenadore" version was reported by Alden in 1882, and he said it was known to him from 30 years earlier, thus ca. 1850. Mention of San Francisco in one of these versions of the sailor's song also suggests that time period. The 'wide Missouri' likely refers to Missouri territory, not the river. Did Shenadore derive from Shenandoah? Possibly. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Shenandoah From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 16 Oct 10 - 11:20 PM Slag, that Saray- Saree line is in one of the reported versions, but I have no idea now where I saw it. Someone here should know. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Shenandoah From: John Minear Date: 17 Oct 10 - 09:11 AM There is some extended discussion of the possible origins and development of "Shenandoah" here, which goes on for about 10 or 11 posts (This is a long thread and takes a while to come up): thread.cfm?threadid=126347#2877977 And a followup note here: thread.cfm?threadid=126347#2885057 |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Shenandoah From: Lighter Date: 17 Oct 10 - 10:18 AM Yeah, I hate to say it, but my later research into Alden's shanties (on one of those other threads) makes it very unlikely that he'd known "Shenandoah" or *any* others for "thirty" years. The most we can say is that Alden's source or sources told him in the '70s or '80s, or gave him the impression, that they'd known them all in the '50s. Shanties were not a subject that nineteenth-century writers thought they needed to be very precise about. They were just songs sung by laboring sailors - for centuries as far as they knew. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Shenandoah From: Snuffy Date: 17 Oct 10 - 02:11 PM The Carpenter Collection index lists only 3 items for "Shenadoah", but over 30 (including duplications) for "Shanadore". One collected from Alex Henderson of Tayport, Dundee bears the notation Mixture of Sally Brown, while another from Henderson is noted Alternative title "Shallow in the Morning". Mr Henderson is noted Shipped 1885; left sea 1902; was in American ships. I'm not sure if this clears anything up, or adds to the confusion. |
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Subject: ADD Version: Oh My Rolling River (Shenandoah) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 25 Jul 11 - 10:25 PM OH MY ROLLING RIVER Rowing song, St. Vincent Solid fas' I come to tell you, Hurrah, my rolling river. "Solid fas'," our captain cry out, We are bound away from this world of misery. Nobody knows about our toilin', Hurrah, my rolling river. Only God Almighty knows about our danger, We are bound away from this world of misery. "Whale ahead," my little gunman cry out, Hurrah, my rolling river. "Solid fas'," my little captain answer, We are bound away from this world of misery. And on our way she roll and shiver, Hurrah, my rolling river. Down in our way she sport dirty water, We are bound away from this world of misery. "Make her so bold," my strokeman cry out, Hurrah, my rolling river. "Haul an' gi' me," my centerman cry out, We are bound away from this world of misery. Nobody knows about our hardship, Hurrah, my rolling river. Our shipowner she don't know our hardship, We are bound away from this world of misery. "Solid fas'," my gunman cry out, Hurrah, my rolling river. "Solid fas'," my little second bow'e cry out, We are bound away from this world of misery. Misery into the ocean, Hurrah, my rolling river. Misery in the deep wide ocean, We are bound away from this world of misery. With musical score. "You see, when you strike the fish, anyhow, the captain say "Solid fas'." Sometime the bowman in action already pullin' up the fish. He turn to the captain so the captain have better position to see....... Soon as somebody see the fish, 'e say "Spout-o!" And then we blackfish boys, we start to pull, and I say "Draw-way, boys, draw way." Then the boys start to chant dey, pulling hard....." In the whaling days, much of the work was done on boats, often following a whale far from the ship. Some of these practices, and song lines, seem passed down from those days in these songs of Antilles fishermen. Collected at Barouaillie, St. Vincent. Roger D. Abrahams, 1974, Deep the Water, Shallow the Shore, American Folklore Society, published by the University of Texas Press. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Shenandoah From: Gibb Sahib Date: 26 Jul 11 - 02:16 AM Video of the Whalers performing the song posted last by Q: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq4SMyj4R_I I shot it June 2010 at Mystic. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Shenandoah From: Gibb Sahib Date: 26 Jul 11 - 02:24 AM Incidentally, I played the B. Whalers' rendition in my World Music class last semester, and I was disappointed that none of the students (So. California) claimed to recognize the "Shenandoah" tune. |
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Subject: ADD Version: Shenandoah (from Whall) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 10 Jul 13 - 01:35 PM SHENANDOAH From W. B. Whall, Sea Songs and Shanties Solo Missouri, she's a mighty river Refrain Away you rolling river Solo The redskin' camp lies on its border Refrain Ah-ha I'm bound away 'cross the wide Missouri The white man loved the Indian maiden, With notions his canoe was laden. "o, Shenandoah, I love your daughter, I'll take her 'cross yon rolling water." The chief disdained the trader's dollars: "My daughter never you shall follow." At last there came a Yankee skipper, He winked his eye, and he tipped his flipper. He sold the chief that fire water, And 'cross the river he stole his daughter. "O, Shenandoah, I long to hear you, Across that wide and rolling river." Uncertain whether Whall remembered these verses from his days at sea, or heard them from "a Harrow boy." Sixth Ed., 1927. Note: Songs added to the Second Edition, 1912. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Shenandoah From: GUEST,Ann Date: 04 Feb 16 - 11:49 AM There are several different versions of this song. One version may be about Shenandoah Valley derived from the Civil War. "I long to see her." Another version of this song the lyrics may refer to a run away slave missing his love one. Other versions may be about a fur trader who has fallen in love with a duaghter of an Indian Chief. The song no matter what set of lyrics are put to it tells a story of love. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Shenandoah From: GUEST,Ann Date: 04 Feb 16 - 11:49 AM There are several different versions of this song. One version may be about Shenandoah Valley derived from the Civil War. "I long to see her." Another version of this song the lyrics may refer to a run away slave missing his love one. Other versions may be about a fur trader who has fallen in love with a duaghter of an Indian Chief. The song no matter what set of lyrics are put to it tells a story of love. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Shenandoah From: Lighter Date: 09 Mar 18 - 08:22 PM Nice performance of new folkie lyrics, in spite of the unlikely assertion that the song probably comes from the 1790s and was brought West by Lewis & Clark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oigaOkSBhH0 |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Shenandoah From: Lighter Date: 02 May 21 - 08:27 PM More modern fantasy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1EG_4IBzbA "The song is also associated with escaped slaves. They were said to sing the song in gratitude because the river allowed their scent to be lost." The accompanying performance by Sissel, however, is amazing. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Shenandoah From: Lighter Date: 10 Jan 22 - 11:19 AM As with most chanteys, any familiar words that scanned could be sung to "Shenandoah." From The Christian Union (N. Y. C.) (Aug. 3, 1882): "Ned was singing to queer wild tune as he poled the raft: I thought I heard an [sic] old man say, Aye, oh! you rolling river, To-morrow is our sailing day Aye, oh! we're bound away Upon the wild Missouri." |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Shenandoah From: GUEST,Rory Date: 05 Feb 22 - 08:47 PM A version of the song first appeared in writing as "Shenadore" in Capt. Robert Chamblet Adams' article "Sailors' Songs" in The New Dominion Monthly in April, 1876, p 262. Shanadore The author, Captain Robert Chamblet Adams, indicated that he had first heard the song around 1850. He also included it in his 1879 book On Board the "Rocket". "Shanadore" was later printed as part of William L. Alden's article "Sailor Songs" in the July 1882 issue of Harper's New Monthly Magazine, and in the 1892 book Songs that Never Die. Alfred Mason Williams' 1895 Studies in Folk-song and Popular Poetry called it a "good specimen of a bowline chant". Capt. Robert Chamblet Adams' article 'Sailors' Songs' The New Dominion Monthly, April, 1876, p.262 Shanadore Chorus: Shanadore's a rolling river, Hurrah, you rolling river. Oh, Shanadore's a rolling river, Ah hah, I'm bounding away o'er the Wild Missouri. Shanadore's a packet sailor, Chorus Shanadore's a bright mulatto, Chorus Shanadore I long to hear you. Chorus And the song goes on, according to the ingenuity of the impromptu composer. . |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Shenandoah From: Lighter Date: 05 Feb 22 - 09:05 PM Just picking up on a thought by Frank Staplin back in 2010 that the "wide Missouri most likely refers to Missouri territory, not the river." This is not likely at all, since the Missouri Territory existed for only nine years, from 1812 to 1821, decades before the appearance of the song. The much smaller State of Missouri was admitted to the Union in 1821. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Shenandoah From: Gibb Sahib Date: 06 Feb 22 - 04:05 AM "The author, Captain Robert Chamblet Adams, indicated that he had first heard the song around 1850." Please tell me where you're getting this from. "Alfred Mason Williams' 1895 Studies in Folk-song and Popular Poetry called it a "good specimen of a bowline chant"." What value is there to you copy and pasting this from Wikipedia? Who is Alfred Mason Williams to be saying anything about this that we should value when he's clearly cribbing from another text and that he doesn't even understand—as indicated by calling it a "bowline chant" and not being able to see that it can't possibly be a "good specimen" of that? |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Shenandoah From: GUEST,Rory Date: 06 Feb 22 - 05:03 AM Studies in Folk-song and Popular Poetry, by Alfred Mason Williams, 1895. Discussion by Williams in Chapter 1 American Sea Songs, with text for Shenandoah on page 7. American Sea Songs/Shenandoah |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Shenandoah From: GUEST,Rory Date: 06 Feb 22 - 06:35 AM The earliest appearance of a "full" text of "Shenandoah" may have been in: The Riverside Magazine for Young People (New York City), April 1868, p 185. Shanydore "Man the capstan bars! Old Dave is our 'chanty-man.' Tune up, David! O, Shanydore, I long to hear you! Chorus.-- Away, you rollin' river! O, Shannydore, I long to hear you! Full Chorus.--Ah ha! I'm bound awAY On the wild Atlantic! Oh, a Yankee ship came down the river: Away, you rollin' river! And who do you think was skipper of her? Ah ha! I'm bound awAY On the wild Atlantic! Oh, Jim-along-Joe was skipper of her: Away, you rollin' river! Oh, Jim-along-Joe was skipper of her! Ah ha! I'm bound awAY On the wild Atlantic! An' what do you think she had for cargo? Away, you rollin' river! She had rum and sugar, an' monkeys' liver! Ah ha! I'm bound awAY On the wild Atlantic! Then seven year I courted Sally: Away, you rollin' river! An' seven more I could not get her Ah ha! I'm bound awAY On the wild Atlantic! Because I was a tarry sailor, Away, you rollin' river! For I loved rum, an' chewed terbaccy: Ah ha! I'm bound awAY On the wild Atlantic! "The words to the songs given here were from the lips of a veritable 'old Dave,' during the writer's recent voyage across the Atlantic." |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Shenandoah From: Gibb Sahib Date: 06 Feb 22 - 06:28 PM GUEST,Rory "The author, Captain Robert Chamblet Adams, indicated that he had first heard the song around 1850." Please tell me where you're getting this from. Yes, I know these sources. Now you seem just be to copying over Lighter's post from another thread (?) I'm asking what the value is of Alfred Mason Williams. An editor popped that into Wikipedia. In fact, we can see that it was a Wiki user called "LeadSongDog" on 3 March 2010. It's probable that that editor just wanted to stick in a (random) source that mentioned "Shenandoah." There are countless people who just add "content" to Wikipedia without much/any consideration for the coherence of an article. The Wiki does not account for the MANY sources mentioning "Shenandoah," their relative quality, or their relevance for inclusion against others. To duplicate it only sows confusion. Williams' book is 19th-century copy-paste without analysis or understanding. I'd guess Williams read something like Adams' text, thought he could say something about "folk-song" (a *very* new concept at the time), but had little comprehension of what he was reading. Adams earlier exemplifies short hauls, e.g. for tacks and sheets, which I suppose one could call "bowline chants." But then he shifts to halyard songs, including "Shenandoah" there. If my guess is right, Williams misread how Adams had categorized the song, i.e. he thought "Shenandoah" was a "bowline chant." Yet, misreading aside, if Williams had any sense of chanties he should have been able to see how "bowline chant" makes no sense, and would not have called it a "good specimen." Even if we're as generous as possible about Williams' knowledge, and pretend he gained some firsthand understanding of "Shenandoah," he should have said it was *odd* that he received the info that it was a "bowline chant," and/or presented a different song altogether as a *representative* example of a "bowline chant." Adams' *exceptional* attribution of "Shenandoah" to halyard work is something that deserves some discussion. |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Shenandoah From: Lighter Date: 06 Feb 22 - 07:58 PM This is likely a coincidence. The quoted source is a Victorian book by a trance medium - written at a time when spiritualists and mediums were the rage: Cora L V. Hatch, "Discourses on Religion, Morals, Philosophy, and Metaphysics" (N.Y.: B. F. Hatch, 1858), I, 372: “ 'Shenandoah’ is the name of an Indian maiden, who frequently controls Mrs. Hatch; and the reply was written while Mrs. H. was entranced.” Maybe Mrs. Hatch was inspired by hearing, somehow, the matching verse of the chantey. Outside of the writings of Mrs. Hatch (who seems to have written of her Shenandoah for more than a decade, I find no 19th century example of "Shenandoah" as an "Indian maiden" and in close proximity to the phrase. P.S.: Surely the line, "Oh, Shenandoah, I long to see you!" referred to the maiden and not her father! |
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Subject: RE: Origin: Shenandoah From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch Date: 06 Feb 22 - 09:28 PM Surely the line, "Oh, Shenandoah, I long to see you!" referred to the maiden and not her father! If the shantyman loves Shenandoah's daughter, that 'maiden's' got some s'plainin' to do. If he (also?) longs to see the mulatto mother... oy. |
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