BS: Untidy Mudcatters?

Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: GUEST,Bardford
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 08:59 PM

Interesting thread. IMark, I found your quotes from the Feng Shui/Clutter book interesting. A family member has a hoarding compulsion, and from the little reading I've done into the OCD (Obsessive Compulsive Disorder) spectrum, Kingston reinforces what is (partially) at the root of this behavior. Decision-making issues abound here as well. There was one person cited who was a hoarder and an organizer - everything she saved (which, with a hoarding compulsion, can be literally most everything) was boxed or bagged and labelled. She had a shoebox labelled, and containing "pieces of string too short to save". This is humurous, but jeez, can you imagine living like that?

"This might be worth something someday" is a justification my relative uses for her behaviour. Consequently, not much of anything gets thrown away. My take on it is this: if everything is valuable, then nothing is.

Interestingly, this person is extremely creative. The creativity is, however, stifled and suffocated by the hoarding behaviour. A shame, really.

Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Jeri
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 07:37 PM

Ooh...synchronicity...

Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Jeri
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 07:32 PM

Bat Goddess gave me a poster that says "Martha Stewart Doesn't Live Here" which is on my fridge.

Wurzel, I have an expensive Copeland whistle. At one point, I saw it sitting somewhere, and thought "It could fall off of that pile and be damaged." I put it someplace safer. I last saw it about a year ago, and I have looked EVERYWHERE!"

And Mark, if you keep things "just in case" for long enough, they become collectors items if not actual antiques. I have an honest-to-goodness 60's era green troll with purple hair. (If I know where that is, why can't I find the damned whistle?) I have antiques that were handed down by pack rat ancestors because NOBODY EVER GOT RID OF ANYTHING! I've got kids' books from the 1890's, and old General Electric stuff from my grandfather. In one of my attempts to reduce clutter, I threw out the first Star Wars comic book...oy! I don't think I could survive in a minimalist decorating scheme.

Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 07:28 PM

"Nextness is godlier than cleanliness," as the Fuggs once said.

I've got lots more important stuff to do than clean house -- it just silts up again, anyway. I consider cat hair to be a protective mulch -- it keeps the the wear and tear and scratches and all away from the furniture. I usually know what room something is located in in -- and probably at what level. (I always did want to be an archaeologist in this lifetime.)

A friend once described our house as looking like the storage wing of the Smithsonian . . . I chose to accept that as a compliment.

My basic theory of housecleaning is that if you've got enough cool shit to look at (and a few potentially shiny surfaces are actually shiny), nobody notices that the house is an unholy mess.

My other basic theory of housecleaning can be summed up in one word: "Tarps." ('Nuff said.)

If women designed houses, there'd be a drain in the kitchen floor and you could just hose it all down.

As Pat Favorite wrote in her song, "Martha Stewart Doesn't Live Here" (to the tune of "The Old Rose and Crown"):

My house bursts with clutter, and children, and pets,
And although it's not perfect, I have no regrets,
And I have no desire for her beautiful home,
For if Miss Martha lives there, she lives there alone.

Well, no children (at least of my own), but you get the idea.

"Here's to the house, we can clean it next year!"

Linn

Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Helen
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 07:16 PM

Years ago I borrowed a slogan and made up a little sign: "Dull women [people?] have immaculate houses". You wouldn't believe the number of people I upset with that one. Some people said: "are you saying I'm untidy?" and the tidy people said: "are you saying I'm dull?. Couldn't win. But it spoke volumes to me.

What I have learned:

There is always something more interesting to do than housework.
The only time I choose to do housework over something else is when I was studying and had to write papers.
When I have sufficient cashflow I get someone to clean the kitchen, the bathroom and all of the floors once a fortnight and the rest of the housework is never as daunting after that. (I'm getting towards that stage soon - in the next couple of months I hope.)

Helen

Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 07:14 PM

A lot of messiness comes from having lots of stuff. As a long-time pack rat who's trying hard to reform, I'd like to tell people about this book, which I found to be brilliant and inspirational: Clear You Clutter with Feng Shui, by Karen Kingston. What I found so helpful about this book was not the Feng Shui part, which you can take or leave (the jury is still out on it, as far as I'm concerned). The best parts are things like this:

"Keeping things 'just in case' is the number one reason that people give for keeping clutter...It indicates a lack of trust in the future....Often it is not just your own future you are concerned about providing for. You may also sincerely want to be able to help others in need. So then you save absolutely everything 'just in case' someone else needs it. This makes it virtually impossible to throw anything away! ...The more you can learn to trust that life will take care of you, the more life will take care of you."

And: "People hold on to their clutter because they are afraid to let it go--afraid of the emotions they may experience in the process of sorting through the stuff, afraid they will make a mistake and later regret getting rid of something, afraid they willleave themselves vulnerable, exposed or at risk in some way. Clutter clearing can bring up a lot of 'stuff' to be faced and dealt with, and intuitively everybody knows it. However, the rewards for clutter clearing are well worth it. Letting go of clutter leaves you free to be you, which is the greatest gift you can ever give yourself."

I know that's not going to resonate with everybody, but it sure as hell helped me, especially when I moved from my too-big house to an apartment by the beach. I still have quite a ways to go...but it feels great already.

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 07:07 PM

Judging by the photos, most are also prone to sloth and slovenly in appearance.

Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Banjer
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 07:01 PM

My wife has a sign hanging on the wall that says, 'When I get the urge to clean house, I lay down til it passes', a rule she truly lives by. The dog hair has built up in certain areas to the extent that it is thought of not as dirt but insulation. We both work some long hours and neither of us has the energy to clean when we get home. I do occassionaly tidy up a bit if I know someone is coming and she vacuums on her days off. If folks can't accept us the way we are then we don't need them anyway!

Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Chip2447
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 06:59 PM

A pile for everything, everything in it's pile.
Chip2447

Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Justa Picker
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 06:59 PM

When I am in creative mode, my studio looks like it was hit by a hurricane (but I know exactly where everything is.) When I am in an organized, no nonsense frame of mind, it gets cleaned up. It just got completely cleaned up, dusted, vacuumed, etc...a week ago. I would imagine it'll get cleaned up again about a year from now. 8-)

Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Big Mick
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 06:53 PM

Please let me take this opportunity to thank Chris Amos from the bottom of my heart. He has all the citizens, denizens, and all other zens of Mudcatville a great service. I now have a very good, well reasoned purpose for the state of unorganized grace that I am currently in. Ask Kath Westra or the Swans about my office. But it makes sense now, and I certainly wouldn't want to do anything that might have a negative impact on my music!!!!!!!!!!!! I am bookmarking this thread for the next high decibel discussion about the state of my office...............hahahahahaha.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 06:50 PM

I can go from almost total chaos to 'right presentable' in a funny variable cycle...I am not a compulsory 'neat freak', and I do collect ...ummm, accumulate, stuff, but I also like to be able to find what I want...so, I use one of my few natural talents, and periodically go on a 'rearrange it and sort it' binge. (You notice I didn't say "toss it out"...we are working on that).

I am actually quite good at figuring out exotic topological solutions for the years of clutter and can do am amazing amount in a short time....(Maybe all those semi-sorted piles represent "songs not practiced", hmmm? It would explain a lot)...

There are, however, limits...and I have about done all I can without some serious 'getting rid of'...if I haven't NEEDED what's in those boxes for 15 years, I probably won't need it tomorrow, huh?

Tune in next year for a report

Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: cyder_drinker
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 06:48 PM

On top of every mountain of untidiness is at least one musical instrument. There's probably some at the bottom of the piles too, come to think of it. I haven't seen my bodhrán for years!

Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 06:39 PM

Manitas is a compulsive tidier and a melodeon player - does this prove or disprove the point??

And I should be bloody Ishaak Perlman!!!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Snuffy
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 06:31 PM

"Cleanliness is next to godliness" - but only in an Irish dictionary! **BG**

WassaiL! V

Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 05:57 PM

I thought there was a slight difference between being untidy and being unclean. I certainly am the former, not necessarily the latter. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean I'm a good musician ...
However, in my experience people who make good music are far too busy for tidying up, and those who are tidy don't know what else to do with their time. I prefer associationg with the former!

Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 05:00 PM

It is good to be in such company. I thought it was just me.

What shall I do? Tidy up or Mudcat, or play guitar, or write a song, or read, The Simpsons are on tonight. can't run the vacuum then.....

Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 04:58 PM

So the old adage Cleanliness is next to godliness means no place in the choir?**BG**

Jeri, with all that crap, maybe you need another toilet and septic system?:-)

Carefully balanced here, have to keep some of the dishes washed up and eventually there are two or three more spare cats and another dog if I don't vacuum, but the rest of it sits in piles, shifted ocassionally...or not. Glad to know we are so musically normal! LOL

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Hilary
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 04:43 PM

AT LAST, an excuse, er, Rational Explanation for my total lack of domestication. Many thanks

H

Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 04:42 PM

When I was a member of the Sacred Cow Harmogenizers in Seattle we used to have our singings/potlucks on Sundays at the home of two of the members. (The potluck is the official religion of Seattle.) Once I had to drop something off at their house in midweek, and when I walked in the door it was absolute chaos. My friend turned to his wife and said, "Quick, let's clean up so he doesn't think we live like this!"

My place, of course, is neat as a pin. An old, bent, dull, dusty, rusty, dirt-encrusted pin.

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From:
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 03:56 PM

I am very untidy by nature...have a mound of laundry in the living room, and I have, on the advice of a doctor, taken to eating more coconut and it is in shreds all around the computer. I just tried using the mouse and realized I was using my dental floss case instead. Went to the library yesterday thinking I would spend all day Sunday improving my mind as well as cleaning my little apartment. Got the time wrong and had only 3 minutes to get some books so I grabbed some financial success ones (it would take a miracle now) and a bunch of Harlequin romances. Well, more than you probably wanted to know.

Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Jeri
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 03:55 PM

Well, I'd have a spare room with a bed if I could find someplace to put the crap that's in there. I'd have a nice music room in a finished basement if I could unpack the boxes of books and other crap, but I'd have to build bookshelves, and I'd have to move crap out of the way to put the bookshelves in, and the crap would probably go in the basement so I wouldn't be able to get to the books and...aw, why bother?

Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: nutty
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 03:52 PM

You can add me to the list ........ housework is my least favourite activity ....... only to be undertaken when absolutely neccesary or when guests are imminent.
There are so many more worthwhile activities ..... folk music being at the top of the list.

Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Jeri
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 03:43 PM

I probably left enough of my hair at Rick's place to stuff a mattress.

Rick said that Quentin Crisp said "After four years it doesn't get any dirtier..."

Yes it does.

Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Tweed
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 03:34 PM

Untidy? Tell me about it. The dog's in his moulting phase and there's enough fur to stuff a mattress.

Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 01:35 PM

Untidy is a rule of law around here. When company's comin', you should see Heather and I moving at the speed of light trying to pick up stuff!

After all, my spiritual Guru IS Quentin Crisp:

"Never keep up with the Joneses...drag them down to your level".

"After four years it doesn't get any dirtier...the dust just piles up in the corners like little drifts of snow"!

Rick

Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 01:29 PM

You mean I need to be even MORE untidy before I develop any musical talent at all?

Whew....

Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: AliUK
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 01:20 PM

I'm a total pig, just look at the mess in here! But it seems ol'C# had a point. Most of the best musicians and singers I've come acroos have only ever had a passing aquaintance with tidiness.

Subject: RE: BS: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: PaulM
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 01:13 PM

The article to which Chris refers can be found here

Subject: Untidy Mudcatters?
From: Chris Amos
Date: 06 Jan 02 - 01:07 PM

Hi,

There is an interesting article on Cecil Sharp's trips to America on The Musical Traditions site (mustrad.org.uk,it contains extracts from some of his letters, including the following;

From Hot Springs they moved on to Jackson County and the area of Balsam: Balsam is on the highest point on the Asheville - Murphy line, and is 3550 feet up. The weather however is as hot as it can be and we have found our long tramps over the mountains rather fatiguing - all the more so because so far we have hit on no singers to speak of. The fact is we are too close to Waynesville - a large industrial centre, and the inhabitants have been partially spoiled, that is from my point of view. The log-cabins are primitive enough but their owners are clean, neat and tidy, looking rather like maid-servants in respectable suburban families. It is sad that cleanliness and good music, or good taste in music rarely go together. Dirt and good music are the usual bed-fellows.

Now I have always been untidy, people have passed comment on it, but until now I had been unaware it was due to my good taste. Anyone had similar revelations lately?.

Chris