Finding chords by watching other players

Subject: RE: Finding chords by watching other players
From: SeanM
Date: 07 Jan 02 - 11:54 PM

Not precisely on topic, but hey...

I learned most of my mediocre pennywhistle by watching people play - and I ran into a problem I didn't even consider (and honestly don't consider a problem still).

I reversed the 'standard' hand position. I've since been informed that one is SUPPOSED to play a pennywhistle with the left hand over the right.

Of course, my idea is that they can get stuffed and I'll just play. But I do get accused occasionally of being left handed while playing.

I'd hope this isn't a concern when trying to pick things up off of another guitar.

M

Subject: RE: Finding chords by watching other players
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 07 Jan 02 - 11:41 PM

M. Ted ... you bring up an excellent point that has been seldom touched on within the forum...there are a lot of different places to play the same thing

Generally, it is refered to as "voicings." The same chord with different fingerings. It is the rudement of jazz.

I can't imagine how anyone could accompany by visual cues, they would be two beats behind the score. But you are guitar, and I am keyboard. I

Subject: RE: Finding chords by watching other players
From: Louie Roy
Date: 07 Jan 02 - 11:30 PM

I've been picking a guitar for 70 years and I'm still learning.Songs I sang many years ago with three chords and made my voice fit the chords I now use seven.Yes I learned he correct chords by watching someone else at a jam seesion.It's just one more tool we can use to make music sound better.Louie

Subject: RE: Finding chords by watching other players
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 07 Jan 02 - 11:10 PM

At the Washington Getaway during one of the many jams I watched a young woman desperately trying to keep up. She was really putting an effort into it but was always changing after everyone else....Her timing was good, and she struck me as someone who WANTED to be able to pick with a group, so I disappeared for a while and wrote her out a little chart for the keys of C,F,G,A, and D. with the numbers above the one four and five chords.

She was sitting opposite me about 10 feet away, and after about two minutes she got used to me "mouthing" one, four, or five, before each change. That's REALLY stealin chords,....but it worked. After a short while her natural ability started to take over ('cause she wasn't playin' catch-up) and she started hittin' 'em dead on.

Rick

Subject: RE: Finding chords by watching other players
From: 53
Date: 07 Jan 02 - 10:08 PM

guitar playing is a talent, and you can learn in so many different ways, just keep your eyes, ears open and ask questions, i have learned so much from beatle music, their my idols, and they have had a great influence on my career as a musician. hooray for britian and for the beatles. BOB

Subject: RE: Finding chords by watching other players
From: Robbyanne
Date: 07 Jan 02 - 10:05 PM

What's the old saying? "Imitation is the highest form of flattery"? - I'm a music educator, as well as a songwriter and performer, and I strongly advocate watching and copying as a way of learning. That's how I learned half the stuff I do - and that's what I encourage for my students - it takes a lot of coordination and a good ear to look at someone and imitate what they are doing - especially afterward, when you sit down by yourself, to see if what you're playing from memory matches what you heard the other guy doing....

I take notes, draw pictures - anything I can do to remember what I see someone doing in a show or a jam session. (Of course, I do it discreetly - usually, I confess that I really admire what someone is doing, ans ask if they'll show me while I draw what they're doing, or try to imitate it.) They're always happy to oblige. Just my two cents! Bye for now - Love, Robin

Subject: RE: Finding chords by watching other players
From: M.Ted
Date: 07 Jan 02 - 09:33 PM

It is perfectly all right to watch the hands--in fact, it is a critical learning tool--and you can learn a lot by watching music videos(especially UNPLUGGED)--the thing about guitar is that there are a lot of different places to play the same thing, so hearing alone is often not enough, you have to know where:what frets, what string, which fingers, which chord inversions--and they are not always obvious from what you hear--

And the goal is not to learn to play something by ear--ear training is an important tool, but it is one of a number of important tools, and ear training alone will only get you so far--

Some of the problems with working things out by ear are that your ear often mis-hears melodic variations and subtle ornaments, that you will often hear notes that are only implied through harmony or as harmonics, and that you will confabulate, which means that you fill in things that you missed with things that could logically be there, without realizing it--

Subject: RE: Finding chords by watching other players
From: 53
Date: 07 Jan 02 - 08:35 PM

you can always learn something by watching other players, and other players can always learn something from you. chet atkins once said, and i paraphrase, youre never to good or to old to learn,just keep alert and practice, practice, practice. BOB

Subject: RE: Finding chords by watching other players
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Jan 02 - 08:33 PM

I try to learn something from every one I see, even if I feel I'm more advanced. Every guitar player has something to give even if its a reminder of what not to do... But we are all in this pool together, so, take what works.

Subject: RE: Finding chords by watching other players
From: John Hardly
Date: 07 Jan 02 - 07:58 PM

alright. I'll be the dissenting voice here...
...not really, but...

I've had a few instances where that "crutch" got knocked right out from under me. My first "playing partner" learned guitar tuned the wrong way. Self-taught country-boy-will-survive that he was, he knew that there was a step-down on the six string somewhere...he just didn't know where. Thus his fingering was all screwed up and me already in the habit of watching other's fingers and following....well, I was like a fish up a crick without a paddle to strike while the iron was....

Okay, I got easily confused...as I did when watching a guy playing in alternate tunings.

The short of it. If you can't turn it off and on (be able to concentrate fully on what YOU are playing), then maybe it's a crutch best left in the closet 'til next time yer foot's ailin'.

Subject: RE: Finding chords by watching other players
From: wysiwyg
Date: 07 Jan 02 - 06:54 PM

I was at a jam recently where if I had not been able to watch guitar-playing hands, I'd have been totally lost. Since we HAVE no regular guitar player HERE, at first I didn't even know what the damn chords LOOK like-- I play autoharp.

But now I found Guitar Chords where you can click on a chord for tips and photos on how it is formed!!!!!!!!!! (Thanks to Sorcha, the wonderhelper...)

I feel like Helen Keller discovering water! I'm gonna make flash cards and stick them in my case till I GET it!

~Susan

Subject: RE: Finding chords by watching other players
From: SharonA
Date: 07 Jan 02 - 06:53 PM

It's part and parcel of the way I learned to play guitar, too. in fact, I think that playing by watching and hearing someone else play is part and parcel of "playing by ear", since you learn to associate chord patterns and playing techniques with the way they sound when played. For this reason, I think that instructional videos are more effective than instructional tapes or CD's.

Also, as has been pointed out, it's easier to follow the lead player in a jam session if you can visually recognize the chords (s)he's playing, since it may be difficult to hear him or her over another player standing or sitting closer to you in the circle.

Subject: RE: Finding chords by watching other players
From: DonMeixner
Date: 07 Jan 02 - 06:13 PM

Playing guitar isn't meant to be a secret. The best way to learn how to perform is by watching others. Notice I said "perform" and not "play". If you are at a level where you are watching fingers then you are probably already playing.

An individual style is the end result of watching others work and mixing that stew into your own musical gumbo. Figure out sometime the degrees of separation between Riley Puckett and Thom Bresh. Of course Riley didn't watch anyone but he heard pretty good. :-)

Wanna learn stage craft, watch Peter Paul and Mary, John Denver, U. Utah Phillips, Roy Book Binder, Faith Petric, Sally Rogers, Michael Doucette, the Coories, Tommy Makem, et al. Ask them all where they learned and they'll name someone else. Dig a little deeper and they'll tell you that it all started while they were stealing chords.

Don

Subject: RE: Finding chords by watching other players
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 07 Jan 02 - 06:07 PM

Yes - and if I can't figure it out visually or by ear I find someone to stand behind me and call out the chords until I figure it out (how I finally figured out Blackberry Blossom)!

Now that is just plain good old fashioned back porch pickin and grinnin!!

Steve

Subject: RE: Finding chords by watching other players
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 07 Jan 02 - 05:57 PM

Oops. Guess I'm the culprit here (as Marion well knows)

Yep, it's not only useful as far as I'm concerned, but invaluable to be able to "read" "mirror images" of what someone else is playing chord wise. Every good guitarist or banjoist or mandolinist and especially bassist I know of (those who can play along with others, never having heard the song before) does it. It's a combination of seeing where someone IS, and then anticipating where they're going, using both aural and visual cues.

Cheers

Rick

Subject: RE: Finding chords by watching other players
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 07 Jan 02 - 05:57 PM

I've found watching chords helps when working out accompanyments in jam sessions, or when I'm backing up people on stage. When I was wathcing other guitarists in concert, I always watched what was happening and learned a lot.

Subject: RE: Finding chords by watching other players
From: Mountain Dog
Date: 07 Jan 02 - 05:24 PM

I've always found it very helpful to watch other players, not just for chords but for other tips and tricks. Can't say that I've ever experienced any negative reactions from the watchees, either.

Subject: RE: Finding chords by watching other players
From: Justa Picker
Date: 07 Jan 02 - 05:23 PM

You have to already have a good working knowledge of chords and what those chord patterns look like, in order to be able to recognize what someone sitting across from you is doing - and if you have this knowledge, it is very helpful when participating in jams, etc.

The goal should be to become the very best player you can be while maximizng whatever talents and God-given abilities you might have. Whatever "tools" are required to accomplish this, are the right means to this end.

All tools are worth looking at and utilizing if you can derive direct benefit from them. If you start getting too analytical about methods, you'll end up screwing yourself one way or another. Remain open and utilize any and all possibilites. My $0.02

Subject: RE: Finding chords by watching other players
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 07 Jan 02 - 05:15 PM

Well, if I didn't like being stared at, I wouldn't make my living on stage...

LOL!!

Also, watching others play is more or less how I learned a lot of what I do... It was Garnet Rogers showed me 95% of what I do in DADGAD for instance...

Subject: Finding chords by watching other players
From: GUEST,Marion
Date: 07 Jan 02 - 05:07 PM

I'd like to know what you all think of the practice of watching another player to see what chords to play. Wyowoman brought the question up in this thread but it didn't get much attention.

On the plus side, this method works great at times, is easier than finding the chords by ear, and can mean the difference between playing the right chords or wrong chords if you can't find them by ear.

However, it seems like a bit a crutch to me - if the goal is to become able to play by ear, then playing by sight won't get any closer, will it? Is there really much difference between reading chords off a page or reading them off somebody else's guitar?

Also, it seems like an undependable crutch at that - if you get used to doing it this way, then you're stuck if you can't sit across from the right person or the person you're watching starts using an alternate tuning or fancy chords.

It also seems a little questionable socially - who likes to be stared at?

Marion