Shanties - Sea Witch

Subject: Shanties - Sea Witch
From: Bo
Date: 06 Mar 98 - 11:10 AM

I'm reading a wonderful book entitled "The Sea Witch" a narrativ e of the experiences of Capt. Roger Murray during the years 1846 to 1856 by Alexander Laing.

It seems bursting with bits of sea anecdote. I was wonderring if anyone else had heard of the book or even read it.

One claim, in part of this novel (damned frustrating that it isnt completely fiction or non fiction!) is :

.. the true shanties -- songs of the shanty-dwelling New Orleans roustabouts -- over the more intelligible sea songs of his native land (britain). ... for those songs of the shanty negro of the Mississippi Valley, adapted by the Shanty Irish of New York to serve the needs of the Liverpool packets, were ringing across the waters of every harbor and seaway in the world, by right of excellence preeminent in fullfilling their important function.

Bo

Subject: RE: Shanties - Sea Witch
From: Bruce O.
Date: 06 Mar 98 - 11:37 AM

Another such now taken to be autobiography is 'Landsman Hay', 1954? It was originally published anonymously as a series 'Sam Spritsail' in Wm. Motherwell's 'The Paisley Magazine', 1828. My copy has MS attribution of all contributors, and notes this series to be by Robert Hay. I quoted a bit from it on a thread some months ago, but I've forgotten what the thread was called. Sea Shanties? It contained what was one thought to be the earliest mention of a sea shanty.

Subject: RE: Shanties - Sea Witch
From: Bo
Date: 09 Mar 98 - 04:54 PM

An interesting part of the song is the reference to walking inland with an oar ala Tom Lewis.

Bo.

Subject: RE: Shanties - Sea Witch
From: Jon W.
Date: 09 Mar 98 - 05:22 PM

I seem to remember a tale of walking inland with an oar from Greek mythology. The purpose was to know when the walker was far enough from the sea (people would recognize the oar). Anyone else recall this?

Subject: RE: Shanties - Sea Witch
From: Jon W.
Date: 09 Mar 98 - 05:23 PM

Oops, I meant "people WOULDN'T recognize the oar"

Subject: RE: Shanties - Sea Witch
From: Barry Finn
Date: 09 Mar 98 - 09:20 PM

Tom Lewis's song "Marching Inland" he says in his notes, " the philosophy behind this song is as old as Homer's 'Iliad'.
Bruce O, when you say earliest mention of sea shanties, do you mean the term 'Sea Shanties' or the use of singing for working on board ship? Barry

Subject: RE: Shanties - Sea Witch
From: Bruce O.
Date: 09 Mar 98 - 09:36 PM

For turning capstain to lift anchor. I'll see if I can find the old thread. I don't want to type it all over.

Subject: RE: Shanties - Sea Witch
From: Bruce O.
Date: 09 Mar 98 - 09:55 PM

4th from bottom on 'Drops of Brandy' thread.

Subject: RE: Shanties - Sea Witch
From: Bruce O.
Date: 10 Mar 98 - 10:15 AM

The quote from Robert Hay's 'Sam Spritsail' on the 'Drops of Brandy' thread doesn't actually say that the sailors sang anything to "Drops of Brandy" or "Off whe Goes". Hugill's reference to this as shantying is in 'Shanties from the Seven Seas', p. 7, 1961.

Subject: RE: Shanties - Sea Witch
From: Bruce O.
Date: 10 Mar 98 - 05:02 PM

Also in 'The Paisley Magazine', 1828, is a series of articles 'Narrative of a Voyage Around Cape Horn and Along the Coasts of Chilim Peru, Columbia, and Mexico in the Years 1823 and 1824.' By Joseph Pinder, Master of the Brig Globe of Whitehaven. [MS attributions in my copy question whether this was't also by Robert Hay.] There is no mention here of music or weighing of the anchor.

The whole procedure of initiating of sailors and passengers for their first crossing of the equator is described in detail near the beginning. One older seaman, Neptune, dresses in a sheepskin, wool outside, and goes out onto the end of the jib, and hails the vessel three times, and so on. He even has a wife.

Subject: RE: Shanties - Sea Witch
From: Martin Ryan
Date: 11 Mar 98 - 04:02 PM

Read a very interesting book lately called "The Great Days of Sail" by Andrew Shewan. Originally published in 1927.

Shewan was born about 1850 and served in tea-clippers from an ealry age. His father was a skipper and Andrew got his ticket very young.

He devotes a chapter to shanties.

A few of the points he makes are: (i) He describes hearing shanties sung by Chinese on war-junks in the sixties, hoisting sail.He makes the point that as the Chinese were very conservative, the songs were probably very old - or at least the practice

(ii) When he started sailing in clippers, orders themselves were habitually chanted rather than "ejaculated" or shouted. His father recalled hearing the same in Mediterranean traders, much earlier.

(iii) He mentions "Stormalong", "Drunken Sailor/soldier" and one with the chorus, "Ting-a-ling-ling for the Virgin Mary"! Also Haul the Bowline, , "Blow boys blow", "Sally Brown", "We're all bound to go"

(iv) He refers to "shanties proper, always to be known by having a chorus of less syllables than the legend..."

Regards