Origins: Help: Santiano - Any Lore?

Subject: Santiano - Any Lore?
From: GUEST,MedievalMan
Date: 10 Jan 02 - 07:45 AM

I'm writing some program notes for a concert that features a medley of sea songs and chanteys. Included is Santiano, "We're sailin' cross the river to Liverpool, Heave away, Santiano, 'round Cape Horn to Frisco Bay, way out in Californio." I need a few pithy lines on the song: What kind of chantey; derivation; etc. All I know is it was sung by the Kingston Trio back in the '60's. Anyone?

Subject: RE: Help: Santiano - Any Lore?
From: masato sakurai
Date: 10 Jan 02 - 08:26 AM

CLICK HERE.
~Masato

Subject: Lyr Add: SANTIANO
From: Devilmaster
Date: 10 Jan 02 - 08:37 AM

Is this the song your thinking of?

SANTIANO

Cho:
Heave her up, and away we'll go,
Away, Santiano,
Heave her up, and away we'll go,
We're bound for Californio

Have you heard the latest news?
Away Santiano
The Yanks have taken Vera Cruz
All along the plains of Mexico, So

Sailing out of Liverpool
Away, Santiano
The winds were up and the holds were full
We're bound for Californio, So

We've a mighty fine ship, and a mighty fine crew,
Away, Santiano,
And a mighty fine man for our Captain too,
We're bound for Californio

Santiano has ten thousand men
Away, Santiano
Sanitano has ten thousand men
All along the plains of Mexico

When I leave this ship I'll settle down
Away Santiano
And marry a girl named Sally Brown
All along the plains of Mexico



Now my version comes from Mcginty's 'Ballads and Bar Tunes' album, so I'm not sure how much they changed it, especially the last verse, and they combined this song with Sally Brown as a medley.

Hope that helps a little. Maybe I'm thinking of a different song.

Steve

Subject: RE: Help: Santiano - Any Lore?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 10 Jan 02 - 08:56 AM

According to sea music collector and shantyman Stan Hugill there are many versions of this song, some with unhistorical references to the Mexican-American war, some celebrating the exploits of such mythical sailor heroes as John Stormalong, or some just wistful for another run ashore with the girls in Mexico. You should be able to revive a previous "thread" here for further discussion.

Subject: RE: Help: Santiano - Any Lore?
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 10 Jan 02 - 10:00 AM

The Highwaymen recorded it in the very early '60s -- the flip side of "Michael Rowed the Boat Ashore." Same song, though much simpler and with less verses than Devilmaster's above. (First and last of those verses with a '49ers verse in the middle.)

Linn

Subject: RE: Help: Santiano - Any Lore?
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 10 Jan 02 - 12:38 PM

I heard a Welsh chorus sing it on a record. I wondered if it might originally be Welsh..you could here them singing Santiano so it wasn't just the tune. mg

Subject: RE: Help: Santiano - Any Lore?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 10 Jan 02 - 12:46 PM

The version you describe, but not the one with All on the Plains of Mexico, was sung by Odetta somewhere, at least it's her voice in my brain.

Subject: RE: Help: Santiano - Any Lore?
From: Dead Horse
Date: 10 Jan 02 - 02:14 PM

The British anti-American version, extolling the virtues and exploits of Santa Anna, was sung as we had just had our asses kicked by them thar colonials. The entire shanty was total bullsh*t, and included such verses as :-
Santianno he won the day, heave away, Santianno
General Taylor he ran away, all across the plains of Mexico
And....We buried his body off Cape Horn.......Close by the place where he was born...etc.
Shanties as a rule had no basis on fact, just a good verse and chorus. Them Yanks responded with a General Taylor version, that told things a bit nearer the truth, but all versions are somewhat garbled, and verses were sung in no particular order, just as the shantyman recalled each one, so he sung it. And where a line of verse was sung twice, as the version above ie. "Santiano has ten thousand men" then it is because the real second line was forgotten. Most of the shanties at this time were British, as the Yanks were too busy carving out their new homeland to bother with going to sea for a nice cruise;-)

Subject: RE: Help: Santiano - Any Lore?
From: Robby
Date: 10 Jan 02 - 02:28 PM

The lyrics, as posted by Devilmaster, fit very nicely into the medley I recall from a short film dealing with American history/exploration. It was shown in movie theaters back in the early to mid 60s, and concluded with the beginning of space exploration.

I can't remember the name of the film. However, it had a song for each period of exploration depicted, e.g. sailing ships with Santiano in the background. I believe the name of the group who recorded the songs for the film was The Ridge Runners. But since we're going back 30 some years don't hold me to it. I never found any recordings by that group. Two of the other songs I recall from that film are Railroad Bill, for (what else?), and This Is The Next Frontier for space eploration.

Does anyone else remember this short film or a group called The Ridge Runners?
Robby

Subject: RE: Help: Santiano - Any Lore?
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 10 Jan 02 - 08:25 PM

I'd never heard the British part. But it makes sense that there would be a bit of heart burn as we were contesting their claims to Oregon. Prevailing opinion was that Mexico would win the war. One of the reasons the Mexicans didn't was the fact we had better artillery and we were starting to deploy troops by rail and by steam ship. Still Santy Anno is a great song and I sing it frequently at Civil War re-enactments etc. Kindet regards, Neil

Subject: RE: Help: Santiano - Any Lore?
From: Rolfyboy6
Date: 11 Jan 02 - 12:01 AM

This is a postcard from the 1840s. The time of both the Mexican War and the great Boston-California hide trade. Boston/New England's shipping trade, the rise of the shoe manufacturing of the greater Boston area, the pre-gold rush cattle/hide wealth of the Californios are all part of the background, as is the shipping bonanza of the Mexican War.

The cattle were driven down to water side, killed and skinned and shipped in tallow on board the Boston ships all the way around the Horn. It created a way of life that would be swept away by the gold rush.

Subject: RE: Help: Santiano - Any Lore?
From: toadfrog
Date: 11 Jan 02 - 12:10 AM

I believe it was Ewan McColl who said it was originated by British sailors who fought on the Mexican side in that war.

Subject: RE: Help: Santiano - Any Lore?
From: Rolfyboy6
Date: 11 Jan 02 - 12:36 AM

Miguel de Santana is and was a very difficult historical figure. Mexican history does not remember him well. He was tinhorn dictator who bloodily surpressed all dissent in his own country while being a completely "for sale" hustler internationally, and being a real fool about it. He put down revolts in Zacatecas, Durango, San Luis Potosi and then marched into Texas with a conscript army and was defeated by the Texans at San Jacinto in 1836. He was deposed. In 1841 he came to power again and proceeded to drain the Mexican treasury for three years until deposed again. US President Polk had him sent on a US ship from exile in Cuba back to Mexico and he would preside over the mismanaged Mexican war effort. Having come back into power a fourth time following the Mexican War and Mexico's loss of a third of it's territory he proceded to sell even more of it to the US (the Gadsden Purchase). While it may be argued that this song was in favor of him, it can just as easily be argued that it is a tongue in cheek reference to one of the most conceited and puffed up rulers in world history.

Subject: RE: Origins: Help: Santiano - Any Lore?
From: GUEST,Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Jan 02 - 07:36 AM

I heard that when Taylor captured him, he escaped execution for his atrocities because they were both Masons.
Heave away,
Keith.

Subject: RE: Origins: Help: Santiano - Any Lore?
From: GUEST,Kalashnikat
Date: 15 Apr 22 - 11:16 AM

Lots of sources confuse mentions of "Molly Del Rey" with "Monterrey"...chances are it's a Mondegreen...the lyrics would likely have been about Molino del Rey, (King's Mill) site of a major battle in the Mexican War.

Even Wikipedia, dam their eyes, knows about the battle:

The Battle of Molino del Rey (8 September 1847) was one of the bloodiest engagements of the Mexican–American War as part of the Battle for Mexico City. It was fought in September 1847 between Mexican forces under General Antonio León against an American force under Major General Winfield Scott at El Molino del Rey on the fringes of Mexico City. The Americans made little progress in this battle, but the Mexican forces were unable to hold them back long enough to prevent the capture of Mexico City one week later.

Subject: RE: Origins: Help: Santiano - Any Lore?
From: crism
Date: 15 Apr 22 - 12:03 PM

Speaking of: an all-Santiano sing is happening this coming Thursday! 21h CEST, 8 pm BST, 3 pm EDT, noon PDT. Linn Phipps and Jim Lucas are hosting; registration required for the Zoom link. See this page for details.

Subject: RE: Origins: Help: Santiano - Any Lore?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Apr 22 - 04:30 PM

That war is correctly call the U.S.-Mexico War, because Mexico is in the Americas, and most of the rest of the Americas weren't involved in that war. I think they have been sidetracked from updating this site, but the Special Collections at UT Arlington has a lot of information about the battles and individuals involved in various activities, from both sides.

Subject: RE: Origins: Help: Santiano - Any Lore?
From: Lighter
Date: 27 Jun 22 - 07:54 AM

From Captain James Chester, "Inside Sumter in '61" (1887).

The garrison at Fort Sumter in Charleston Harbor was hoisting a big gun into position with the use of a windlass:

"After carefully inspecting every knot and lashing, the officer in charge gave the word, 'Heave away,' and the men bent to their work steadily and earnestly.... Every eye watched the ropes as they began to take the strain, and when the gun had fairly left the skids, and there was no accident, the song which anxiety had suspended was resumed, all hands joining in the chorus, 'On the plains of Mexico,' with a sonorous heartiness that might well have been heard at Fort Moultrie. The gun made the vertical passage of fifty feet successfully, and was safely landed...."