Help: There is a tavern in the town

Subject: There is a tavern in the town
From: Haruo
Date: 11 Jan 02 - 08:28 PM

I'm preparing to post the Esperanto version of There is a tavern in the town in La Lilandejo, but don't know much of anything about its provenance. Anybody know who wrote it or when, whether it's an Englishing of something foreign, whether the tune originated with this text, etc., etc. I've never seen any attribution that struck me as from a reliable source. (I have seen copies that claimed copyright for publishers, but those seemed as spurious as the collections from Hal Leonard that claim © 1996 (or whatever) on the melody line of Silent Night...

Is "Tavern" traditional or gay nineties or what?

Thanks,
Liland

Subject: RE: Help: There is a tavern in the town
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Jan 02 - 08:36 PM

All I know is that Rudy Vallee made it famous in the 1920s. Another of those songs everybody knew.
The Traditional Ballad Index says 1883 first record, author unknown, US and England. 1891 sheet music credits F. J. Adams. For what it's worth!

Subject: RE: Help: There is a tavern in the town
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Jan 02 - 08:47 PM

The 1891 sheet music is on the Levy sheet music site. Much the same words as we sing. Adams credited with both words and music. "For What It's Worth!"

Subject: RE: Help: There is a tavern in the town
From: Haruo
Date: 11 Jan 02 - 08:56 PM

Thanks, yeah, looks like FJ Adams 1891 it is. Liland

Subject: RE: Help: There is a tavern in the town
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Jan 02 - 09:45 PM

Liland, there was a lot of stuff about the "Butcher Boy cluster" and other close but not it songs. I presume that you want the lyrics and music as we know it today for the Esperanto version hence these antecedents don't really matter.
All my children are grown. Do the young still sing these songs? Home On The Range came up in a thread yesterday and I was wondering if it still was a bathroom acoustics favorite. Or have the kids all (Ugh!) gone to pop and rap?

Subject: RE: Help: There is a tavern in the town
From: masato sakurai
Date: 11 Jan 02 - 10:13 PM

Info in the Forum: CLICK HERE
~Masato

Subject: RE: Help: There is a tavern in the town
From: 53
Date: 12 Jan 02 - 12:12 AM

usually there's a tavern in every town, which one do you want? BOB

Subject: RE: Help: There is a tavern in the town
From: DougR
Date: 12 Jan 02 - 12:16 AM

I remember this song from a Will Rodgers movie in the 1930's. Probably in the late 1930's. Sorry, but I can't remember the name of the film, but you might find some info by checking into Will Rodgers on the Internet. It was a movie about harness racing, as I recall.

DougR

Subject: RE: Help: There is a tavern in the town
From: GUEST,Dale
Date: 12 Jan 02 - 02:23 AM

In the 1999-2000 thread pointed to by Masato, I linked to the sheet music at Levy and mentioned the Wally Cox recording. I have posted his must-be-heard-to-be-believed rendition on my Extra Page ~~ created because Tripod no longer allows direct linking to a sound file.

It WAS a big hit in 1953, by the way. My uncle Sid had a 45 of the song, and I like to wore it out when visiting him.

Subject: RE: Help: There is a tavern in the town
From: nutty
Date: 12 Jan 02 - 10:21 AM

This broadside ballad in the Bodleian Library (circa1880) has the composer as a W.H.Hills

THERE IS A TAVERN IN THE TOWN

Subject: RE: Help: There is a tavern in the town
From: masato sakurai
Date: 12 Jan 02 - 10:57 AM

William H. Hills is editor of Students' Songs, 3rd ed. (1883), in which the first known printing of the song appeared (James J. Fuld, The Book of World-Famous Music, 4th ed., p. 572).
~Masato

Subject: RE: Help: There is a tavern in the town
From: Haruo
Date: 12 Jan 02 - 11:55 AM

Anybody know if the 1883 printing is substantially identical to the 1891 sheet music attributed to FJA?

Liland

Subject: RE: Help: There is a tavern in the town
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 Jan 02 - 01:55 PM

Yes, much the same. See the full sheet music of the 1891 Adams version in The Lester S. Levy Collection of Sheet Music:
http://levysheetmusic.mse.jhu.edu/index.html. Hit Search and type in There is a tavern (or click here). The 1891 Adams version is more complete and closer to the one yowled by everyone over the last 75 years or more. The music is the same.
Of course we don't know which of the two named authors, or someone else for that matter, wrote the song. We have a publishing date for one version and an estimated date for the other, but this doesn't establish original authorship.
The traditional Ballad Index states there is no author cited on the 1883 printing.
The song booklet, with Tavern in the Town on p. 7 of Bodleian images of the 2-sheet booklet (no music), printed by Marsh ("between 1877 and 1884"), in London, has American songs about baseball teams, nigger songs, etc., i. e. songs cobbled from both sides of the Atlantic. An English provenance for the song cannot definitely be established. Music for the song by Day and Hunter, is mentioned along with W. H. Hills, but is this the same music we know?
I would like to see the Cornish "Alehouse" version, and will look for it, but there does not seem to be a copy in the Bodleian Library. Maybe Masato knows of it.

Subject: RE: Help: There is a tavern in the town
From: Amos
Date: 12 Jan 02 - 03:27 PM

That Wally Cox file is an absolute classic, Dale!! The wildest!!

It's interesting as well as funny, because I don't think I've heard any other yodeling where the chronic tone is the falsetto and the singer dips down into the "normal" range. Usually the normal voice is intermittently broken up into falsetto, but he seems to go at it the other way round!!

Thanks!!

A

Subject: RE: Help: There is a tavern in the town
From:
Date: 12 Jan 02 - 03:34 PM

Dicho, Here you go....

Dt's Sheffield Park
Sheffield Park
Love is Teasing
Died of Love

Subject: RE: Help: There is a tavern in the town
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 12 Jan 02 - 04:24 PM

There is an Alehouse in Yonder Town has been found in pretty well every part of England (though it's usually called Died of Love or A Brisk Young Sailor Courted Me); oddly enough, I haven't yet found any reference to a Cornish set (apart from the Traditional Ballad Index, which doesn't give details), beyond one example of a related though distinct song, A Ship Came Sailing over the Sea (Deep in Love) from Saint Enoder which, though it shares some elements, doesn't mention alehouses.

A number of tunes have been used, but the ones I've come across bear little resemblance to the Tavern tune, which was presumably composed specially.  As to derivation, Anne Gilchrist (A Guide to English Folk Song Collections, 1954) commented: "Died of Love is the stock from which many fragmentations treated as separate songs have been made, including the modern burlesque There is a Tavern in the Town. "

There is an extensive list of links to related material in this thread:  I Wish, I Wish.  Although Sheffield Park and The Butcher's Boy share some elements (as indeed does Waly Waly), their narrative element really places them in different categories.

Subject: RE: Help: There is a tavern in the town
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 Jan 02 - 04:30 PM

Hmmm. The "Died of Love" version certainly looks like a relative and along with the others seem to suggest the British Isles as the source of the inspiration for "Tavern" as we know it.

Subject: RE: Help: There is a tavern in the town
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 12 Jan 02 - 05:28 PM

I don't think there's any doubt of that, though whether the new song was made in America or England is uncertain; the evidence we have would suggest the former, I'd have thought.

The Died of Love text at the Prof's site (George's link) unfortunately names no source; for what it's worth it was noted by H.E.D. Hammond from William Bartlett at Wimbourne, Dorset, in 1905, and appeared in the Journal of the Folk Song Society, no.19, 1915.

In a fit of absentmindedness I referred to Anne Gilchrist in my previous post, when I should have said Margaret Dean-Smith.

Subject: RE: Help: There is a tavern in the town
From:
Date: 12 Jan 02 - 06:00 PM

Ah, we'll definitely forgive you for that momentary lapse, Malcolm. You've certainly shown us lots of great information in the past, and will again, I'm sure, in the future. Thanks for the update.

Subject: RE: Help: There is a tavern in the town
From: Haruo
Date: 12 Jan 02 - 08:51 PM

Parts of "Died of Love" look a lot like "Careless Love" as I recall from (?) one of the Boni/Bradford? Fireside books. FWIW.

Liland

Subject: RE: Help: There is a tavern in the town
From: Musicman
Date: 13 Jan 02 - 02:30 AM

WHERE?!.. WHERE?!!

DO THEY SERVE GUINESS/?????

Subject: RE: Help: There is a tavern in the town
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 13 Jan 02 - 04:25 AM

Dale, that Wally Cox version is absolutely priceless! Do you know if he's done anything else like that? I only remember him from "What's My Line"--never knew he was a singer, too. I especially love the sound of the "I'll hang my heart" line...those fifths give me goose bumps! (And they probably pour them in the tavern, too.)

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: Help: There is a tavern in the town
From:
Date: 13 Jan 02 - 11:24 AM

I remember Wally Cox from the movie The Amazing Mr. Limpet

Subject: RE: Help: There is a tavern in the town
From: GUEST,Dale
Date: 13 Jan 02 - 12:46 PM

Well, I don't remember Wally Cox being in The Amazing Mr. Limpet, Don Knotts was the star there, I think. Cox (1924-1973) was most noted for his starring role in the TV comedy, Mr. Peepers, though he was in quite a few movies as well. I especially remember the line Gee, Wes ~~ frequently directed to costar Tony Randall, a line we used often as kids when we wanted to express incredulity.

As far as his music is concerned, that was pretty much it. I don't recall any other recordings by him. Nor could I locate too many current recordings of the song, Sam Hinton, PEI fiddler Sidney Baglole, Six Fat Dutchmen, Roz Brown, Organist George Wright, Rudy Vallee and Burl Ives, in varying degrees of availability, are just a few to look for.

Subject: RE: Help: There is a tavern in the town
From:
Date: 13 Jan 02 - 01:39 PM

I always thought it was Wally Cox! Wow!

Subject: RE: Help: There is a tavern in the town
From: Haruo
Date: 20 Jan 02 - 09:31 PM

Okay, I posted it:

Sub signo de la «Verda Kat'»

(Esperanto version of "There is a Tavern in the Town", adapted and "localized" by Marta Evans)

"La Verda Kato" was a popular Paris Espérantophone cabaret between the World Wars.

Liland

Subject: RE: Help: There is a tavern in the town
From: GUEST,999
Date: 31 Jan 12 - 11:02 AM

http://www.ehenrydavid.com/cgi-bin/ehdcatalogue.pl?composition=thereis

Some of the song history in the US and 1883 as the date on the sheet music. Worth a look.

Subject: RE: Help: There is a tavern in the town
From: Charley Noble
Date: 31 Jan 12 - 11:16 AM

Nice of the SPAM folks to refresh old threads:

answer this topic
From: GUEST,ROACH19Marilyn - PM
Date: 31 Jan 12 - 10:47 AM

freelance writer