Folk for the Young and Uninitiated

Subject: Folk for the Young and Uninitiated
From: lostbunny
Date: 17 Jan 02 - 12:46 PM

There seem to be a lot of young people who think folk is 'sad'. I'm writing part of a project about this at the moment and have come up with reasons such as misconceptions ("It's only for old people"), under-exposure ("It's just morris dancing, isn't it?") and lack of access ("Don't know where to play/hear it...") Does anyone agree/disagree with these things, or have any other ideas?

On a similar note, someone sent me part of a thread from another forum (they didn't say which - it may have been this one for all I know. I'm new.) where someone had described "young folkies" as something along the lines of "a nasty breed of late teen who were pushed into it by their parents and will rebel against it later".

I wasn't sure whether this was the opinion of the masses, or quite what!

Subject: RE: Folk for the Young and Uninitiated
From: Wolfgang
Date: 17 Jan 02 - 01:11 PM

relevant old threads: young folkies and Where are the kids

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Folk for the Young and Uninitiated
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 17 Jan 02 - 01:30 PM

It may also be useful to read the threads reffered to "horrible breed of late teens" which were on uk.music.folk. It started here. A new thread was started here.

Jon

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From duplicate thread:


Subject: RE: Folk for the Young and Uninitiated
From: Mrrzy
Date: 17-Jan-02 - 01:31 PM

Hmmm, interesting question. I got into folk as a toddler because it was what my parents listened to, and I have yet to rebel against it!

Subject: RE: Folk for the Young and Uninitiated
From: Art Thieme
Date: 17 Jan 02 - 02:10 PM

It's always been fascinating to me how different generations react to what has been known as "folk". I've seen enough to realize that I like what I like in spite of what othewrs may think. The songs I love most are the sad ones. Life is sad! That is a true statement even though I hadn't realized that when I was 20 years old. At 60, I see the truth of it but I also see that it just doesn't matter. Life (and the folksongs that reflect real life) will be sad and that's cool. Just hold your horses and you'll find out. The kick comes in seeing that it's all a gas---a marvelous panorama--always changing and fluctuating. Learn to ride the rollercoaster and see the scenery as you do. You'll be ahead of the game. Way ahead.

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: Folk for the Young and Uninitiated
From: Sam Pirt
Date: 17 Jan 02 - 04:40 PM

Hi

well I am 22 and am now a full time Folk musician and there lots going on.

I really think you need to look at the bigger picture, I think folk music is far more popular than people realise.

I only need to say 'O Brother' and that soundtrack is brimming with traditional american folk artists and songs, with 2 million copies sold, well, its not unpopular.

Then theres River Dance - ok so not trad tunes but the players certainly were lifted from the folk circuit and it was based on tradition.

Then theres Natalie MacMaster who has a huge following along with La Bottine in Canada.

Folk music has so many faces to it that there will be some aspects of it poeple hate ,other aspects they may really enjoy.

With any music the media finds something it can make fun of it and in ENGLISH folk music that thing is morris dancing.

And you say age is a misconception, if any music respected its older audience it would be folk music after all with out them who would the younger generations get there songs and tunes from? They are an integral part, infact just as important as the person learning the tune. So this could be seen as a positive thing.

folk music today is a different kind of music. It is folk music on an international scale, one without the boundarys that our parents had. It is so versatile that if ever there was a music to appeal to the masses it would now. Having said that to a 'Good' does not mean you have to have a big or young audience, does it?

I have rambled but I hope I have made some good points.

Cheers, sam

Subject: RE: Folk for the Young and Uninitiated
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 18 Jan 02 - 07:15 AM

I don't know why Folk Dancing (esp. Morris) is always considered so funny. I once snapped my Achilles Tendon at a barn dance and as they were wheeling me into the operating theatre (in a hazy pre-med-ed state) I remember the surgeon and crew looking at my notes and splitting their sides with laughter. Even the composer Arnold Bax (not Beecham who often gets the credit) said "Try anything in life except incest and folk dancing". What had he got against the dancing and even more importantly, his own family ?

Subject: RE: Folk for the Young and Uninitiated
From: GUEST,swirlygirl
Date: 18 Jan 02 - 07:41 AM

Martyn Bennett always does the trick...as do ACSS cos it eases the dance culture in gently...

then you tell them about folk-y guitar things, then fiddles, then whatever, but make pipes last cos it's too much for their young ears...

:)

xxx

Subject: RE: Folk for the Young and Uninitiated
From: Fibula Mattock
Date: 18 Jan 02 - 07:46 AM

Dave - it's a dangerous game alright. I broke my big toe doing Irish dancing when I was wee.

Subject: RE: Folk for the Young and Uninitiated
From: JeZeBeL
Date: 18 Jan 02 - 04:37 PM

Sam, Do you not recognise the name..helborama....It's helen you foolish one from ola. I can't believe you're on the cat helb!! It's emma. Jez is my name here.

I think folk is a downright disgraceful pastime!! Who'd want to spend their time sat in the pub playing music with the likes of Chris Sherburn, Sam Pirt, Kathryn Tickell, Ola......not me that's for sure.

Only joking honey. You know how much I love it and that I'm very new to it.I started playing bodhran about 2 years ago, this was basically cos I had gone up to uni in Newcastle and couldn't find any bands to play trumpet in and after having being dragged to a pub in byker called the cumberland arms I took out the drum I had bought a while back, but never played, and well, began to play it, not very well, but I tried. I've got a bit better after two years anyway. I then took up whistle 6mths later and really enjoyed that. I'd also started dancing with Pengwyn Rapper. I never realised how much fun all the folk stuff was. And what was more was there were a few young people doing it too. What suprised me most was to find that Andy Stephenson was a Kingsman!! And in to all the folk stuff aswell.

I didn't find out there were such things as young folkies till about january last year, when I met up with my cello playing friend from college IAN STEPHENSON, and only to find him playing in a couple of local sessions. These are where I got to meet Sam Pirt, Michael Jary, Helborama McSpleen, Sarah Wright and lots others.

My dull boring dubliners and sea shanty impression of folk music had disappeared well and truly. And I set off into the wide world of folk festivals with the help of these people mentioned above. They helped me meet the pack and lots of other young and old folkies. They are all the greatest bunch of people I've ever met, and I love them all to bits. They are also extremerly talented musicians who are going to go very far. they mix the old with the new and keep the folk tradition going. We need this "teen" generation of folkies to keep it going in the future or the traditional music of our countries will dissappear. I feel lucky to have seen the errors of my ways and returened to folk now I know it's not all dubliners and sea shantys(no offense meant to anyone who likes them, theyre just not my cuppa tea).

The thing is there's so much interesting stuff out there. I love swedish and finnish folk music and breton, french canadian. It's all so interesting and people like martyn bennett and afrocelt soundsystem incorporate traditional music like pipes in bennetts case mostly and other traditional tunes in with dance music and things appealing to the general public aswell as giving a new approach to folk in the folk scene.

Cheers for letting me babble on for so long.

See you on tuesday Helb!!

Jez

Subject: RE: Folk for the Young and Uninitiated
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 18 Jan 02 - 04:53 PM

Jezabel, what is this new approach? Maybe I'm wrong but whenever I read about it, I seem to detect references to mixing one genre of music with another or mixing instruments "belonging" to various styles but I see nothing new in it. I think it started some time ago with folk rock and celtic rock and I only see adding other genres, etc. as variations on what has become a well worn theme (even though the music can be very good).

Perhaps you can enlighten me.

Jon

Subject: RE: Folk for the Young and Uninitiated
From: Art Thieme
Date: 18 Jan 02 - 08:12 PM

Fibula and Dave and all,

Yes, it is a dangerous world. I broke my leg playing golf when I FELL OFF THE BALL WASHER. Now I'm a clean old man. ;-)

Art

Subject: RE: Folk for the Young and Uninitiated
From: Amergin
Date: 18 Jan 02 - 08:13 PM

i hate those ball washers...they always pinch me....

Subject: RE: Folk for the Young and Uninitiated
From: 53
Date: 18 Jan 02 - 08:25 PM

what is a folk musician? BOB

Subject: RE: Folk for the Young and Uninitiated
From: wysiwyg
Date: 18 Jan 02 - 08:46 PM

See more stories of kids loving folk, from an early age, in You and Your 'Folkbabies'.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Folk for the Young and Uninitiated
From: 53
Date: 18 Jan 02 - 08:50 PM

thanks susan, and by the way have a piece of candy, it will make you feel much better. BOB

Subject: RE: Folk for the Young and Uninitiated
From: GUEST,jayohjo
Date: 18 Jan 02 - 10:42 PM

Another 'young folkie' speaks..... My parents WERE folkies, but moved on to other kinds of music, so there had always been some sort of music around, just not always traditional folk stuff (at least not since my fairly late childhood). However, a few years back I 'discovered' folk for myself, without realising what I was doing - all I knew was that I had just found something that resonated in my soul like nothing else, that felt like coming home, and this was the music I should be singing, this was my heritage, my birthright; just mine. Of course, my mum was shocked to find I could sing from beginning to end the old ballads like Dives and Lazarus, Barbara Allen etc - 'but I haven't sung those for 15 years, how do you know the words?' Somehow, it had all gone in. And finding it again for myself felt like coming home. I feel quite emotional about this! Jayohjo xx

Subject: RE: Folk for the Young and Uninitiated
From: wysiwyg
Date: 18 Jan 02 - 11:12 PM

No candy for me, Bob-- makes me ill. Have mine for me!

~Susan

Subject: RE: Folk for the Young and Uninitiated
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Jan 02 - 11:38 PM

Danged, ol' bobertnever thought he'd actaully be conversing with catfolk about real stuff.. ahh.. music. But, what the hey.

I'd like to think that Helborma isn't an ond hippie folk singer who remembers where he or she was when Kennedy was killed.

With those two "announcments" behind us, folk music to me is universal in that it represents a music that comes from bottom up giving a wide perspective of emotion as opposed to classical which works from a different perspective.

Art: I know exactly what you mean when you speak of the "marvelous panarama".

Hey, it's just about carrying on the stories, the music and spirit so... Helborma: Doc Bobert says that if when you hear folk music you hear "sad" that's good. Now for the rest of the good news. The "glad" part of folk music is twice as nice...

Bobert

Subject: RE: Folk for the Young and Uninitiated
From: Kaleea
Date: 18 Jan 02 - 11:45 PM

Few students are exposed to "traditional music" in American music classrooms today. Often they hear what is called folk music, perhaps in movies, and is limitied to ballads. Many ballads are slow and sad. Folk music is a whole lotta drummin in the Pacific Islands, and singing, and some stringed instruments, and moving to the music in slow beautiful hula, & fast wild dancing. In some African countries where I have visited, folk music is alot of drumming and singing and clapping with dancing almost always going on, and some very interesting instruments which we do not usually see in these United States. In some of the Far East countries where I have been, folk music is singing, and wonderful instruments which usually include flute like instruments and drums and marvelous stringed instruments, screaming double reed shawm like things that sounds like a pig screaming on different pitches along with the music, and bells and cymbals and-- then the dancing is amazing! And Chinese Opera is just about the most incredible music/dance/drama/comedy/scenery/costumes/colors/ somke/makeup/amazing sights & sounds that I have ever seen & heard! What is folk music? Is it not the music of the indigenous peoples of a given geographical area? Why don't you go to a library and check out the folk music section? Folk music is often not a known composer, but music which is handed down from one generation to another, being changed along the way. And sometimes the folk music, such as the songs of the American composer Stephen Foster is written down in sheet music form & becomes folk music. If America is a "melting pot" of peoples from all around the globe, then what must our American "folk" music be? Catters?

Subject: RE: Folk for the Young and Uninitiated
From: Sam Pirt
Date: 19 Jan 02 - 06:54 AM

oops's hello Helen *Smile* (embarased one mind!)

Cheers, Sam

Subject: RE: Folk for the Young and Uninitiated
From: lostbunny
Date: 20 Jan 02 - 07:02 AM

Ha! Sorry Sam... Thanks for your rambles though - maybe it was better that you didn't know it was me or perhaps you wouldn't have said some of it! Thanks to everyone else as well. I really thought it hadn't worked when I posted that, because a thing came up saying that the server was down. Consequently I didn't come back to look until Emma (Jezebel) sent me an accusing text message asking what I was doing here!

I've realised one thing that I should have rephrased - I sort of included some 'cool' English slang there. 'Sad' apparently means 'uncool' here. I forgot it doesn't in America. Am idiot. Sorry if the statement 'folk is sad' seemed odd to anyone - but then again, it sort of made sense in some ways.

And - um - no, Bobert, I'm not an old hippie folk singer. I'm twenty one, a 'she' and I play the fiddle. Well, viola, if I'm honest...

Thanks to everyone who commented or posted links to other threads - v. useful.