Origins: Carol of the Bagpipes

Subject: Carol of the Bagpipes
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 18 Jan 02 - 08:13 AM

Any information on this one. Net searches only lead to the dulcimer book I already have which says it is traditional Sicilian, and probably used by Handel for He Shall Feed His Flock in The Messiah.

Subject: RE: Carol of the Bagpipes
From: SharonA
Date: 18 Jan 02 - 08:55 AM

Wow, you mean this is a real song? I'd thought that this was one of those "stretching-a-joke" threads like that "Christ's face found in..." series!

Subject: RE: Carol of the Bagpipes
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 18 Jan 02 - 08:59 AM

Sharon, I thought the same thing when I first saw the name, oxymoron or something. I've read a little about taking the Italian and Sicilian tunes and playing them on bagpipes in Scotland...

I've seen this tune listed on the liner notes for a scottish music CD. It is so familiar because of the Handel tune, I just wondered if anyone else knew it by this name.

Subject: RE: Carol of the Bagpipes
From: CarolC
Date: 18 Jan 02 - 10:28 AM

Had me nervous for a minute there, too, Sorcha. Carol of the Accordion's bad enough as it is.

Subject: RE: Carol of the Bagpipes
From: CarolC
Date: 18 Jan 02 - 10:29 AM

Oops! I mean Sharon. I haven't had my coffee yet.

Subject: RE: Carol of the Bagpipes
From: weepiper
Date: 18 Jan 02 - 02:57 PM

Hi, I remember some posts about this on the bellows pipes group, I went back and copy 'n pasted them for you.

Message: 2
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 14:28:02 -0000
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Italian Bagpipes in New York

Yes completely off-topic but too nice not to share.
Phillip Roth is one of my favourite American writers and I'm currently on "I Married a Communist", just hitting this in chapter 2, an evocation of between-the-wars working class life in NYC "..the feast days all year round with processions for all those saints they brought over with them from Italy, hundreds and hundreds of people venerating their society's special saint by dressing up and bearing the saint's embroidered flag and carrying candles the size of tyre irons. And there was St. Lucy's 'presepio' for Christmas, a replica of a Neapolitan village depicting the birth of Jesus, a hundred Italian figurines planted in it along with Mary, Joseph, and the Bambino. There were the Italian bagpipes parading with a plaster Bambino and, behind the Bambino, the people in the procession singing Italian Christmas carols......"
I'm aware that in Italy the bagpipes, the Zampogna was associated with Christmas but never imagined this tradition entering America in any way. However it's clear Roth is either drawing on his own memory or from known sources. I wonder if there was any kind of continuity of Italian piping from those days.....
Nice to know it wasnt just the scots-irish who immigrated with pipes, the type which seem to be getting a good airing in the streets of New york these past couple of months.
Sorry for the digression.

Bill Telfer

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 14:05:06 -0500
From: John McCain
Subject: Re: Italian Bagpipes in New York

There's a Traditional Sicilian carol, Canzone d'i Zampognari (Carol of the Bagpipers), that sits well on the Scottish smallpipes. I've performed with a singer and it seems to go over well.

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 08:57:45 -0500
From: Steve Bliven
Subject: Re: Digest Number 383


> Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 18:58:31 -0500
> From: Bob Cameron
> Subject: Re: Italian Bagpipes in New York
>
> Anybody have a source for the music? I'd love to have a copy ( legally , of > course).

There is a carol called Quando Nascette Ninno (the Bagpiper's Carol) that is in the New Oxford Book of Carols. The notes to the tune explain that "For may centuries, during the period before Christmas, mountain shepherds have descended on Rome, Naples, and other cities in southern Italy,....singing and playing pastoral music suchas this carol. They accompany each other on the ciaramella (a small shawm) and the zampogna, a large, sweet-toned bagpipe with two drones and two chanters, which is played mostly in thirds and sixths with some embelleshments."

The singing version is on one of the Christmas CDs from the York Waites. I have versions (in Lime which can probably be saved as a jpeg) in both G and D so you highland pipe music readers will have to transpose. I also have an arrangement for double-chanter pipes from a collection I put together for those instruments.

Best wishes.

Steve


Message: 1
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 12:28:07 -0500
From: Steve Bliven
Subject: Re: Digest Number 384

> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 14:40:12 +0000
> From: Andrea Kirkby
> Subject: Re: zampogna

> Incidentally, if you're putting up the christmas music as an abc, gif or > whatever, I'm interested. It's a lovely tune.

Following is an abc of the Bagpipers' Carol mentioned previously. There are a number of other holiday/solstice/seasonal carols that fit nicely on the pipes. Try the Oxford Book of Carols, keeping in mind that most of these are of English origin rather than Scottish....

Best wishes.

Steve

X:1
T:Quando Nascette Ninno (The Bagpipers Carol)
C:Traditional Neopolitan
S:York Waites "Christmas Musicke", Brewhouse Music
N:"For many centuries, during the period before Christmas, mountain shepherds have descended on Rome, Naples, and other cities in southern Italy,....singing and playing pastoral music such as this carol. They accompany each other on the ciaramella (a small shawm) and the zampogna, a large, sweet-toned bagpipe with two drones and two chanters, which is played mostly in thirds and sixths with some embelleshments." [Oxford Book of Carols]
L:1/8
M:6/8
K:A %Transposed from G
e|e2 d c2 B| A3 A2 B | c2 d e>dc| B3-B2 c|
B2 c B2 c|ded-ded | c2 d c2 B| A3 cde |
d>cd Bcd|c>Bc cde | d>cd Bcd | c3-c2 B|c2 d e>dc|
B3-B2 c |B2 c B2 c| ded-ded | c2d c2B|A3-A2||

Whew! I should think that about covers it :-)

Subject: Tune Add: QUANDO NASCETTE NINNO (BAGPIPER'S CAROL)
From: MMario
Date: 18 Jan 02 - 03:17 PM

X:1
T:Quando Nascette Ninno (The Bagpipers Carol)
C:Traditional Neopolitan
S:York Waites "Christmas Musicke", Brewhouse Music
N:"For may centuries, during the period before Christmas, mountain shepherds have descended on Rome, Naples, and other cities in southern Italy,....singing and playing pastoral music such as this carol. They accompany each other on the ciaramella (a small shawm) and the zampogna, a large, sweet-toned bagpipe with two drones and two chanters, which is played mostly in thirds and sixths with some embelleshments." [Oxford Book of Carols]
L:1/8
M:6/8
K:A
e|e2 d c2 B| A3 A2 B | c2 d e>dc| B3-B2 c|
B2 c B2 c|ded-ded | c2 d c2 B| A3 cde |
d>cd Bcd|c>Bc cde | d>cd Bcd | c3-c2 B|c2 d e>dc|
B3-B2 c |B2 c B2 c| ded-ded | c2d c2B|A3-A2||

Subject: RE: Carol of the Bagpipes
From: weepiper
Date: 19 Jan 02 - 02:36 PM

Thanks MMario... I don't know enough about ABC to know where to put line breaks

Subject: RE: Carol of the Bagpipes
From: Gloredhel
Date: 19 Jan 02 - 03:06 PM

I saw the "Carol of the Bagpipes" for the first time last Christmas while looking through a book of carols with my singing instructor. It's really pretty, but also having just worked on "He Shall Feed His Flock" for an audition, I fail to note any resemblance, other than that Handel was obviously using the Siciliana as a model. The tunes did not seem to match. Have you any other basis for this?

Subject: RE: Carol of the Bagpipes
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 19 Jan 02 - 03:12 PM

Hi Gloredhel,

In my book they are exactly the same, or the first few notes anyway. I'll post a midi later tonight for you to hear. In the meantime, I'll try to hear the ABC above and see if it's the same tune. (I'll post the book reference too.)

Subject: RE: Carol of the Bagpipes
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 19 Jan 02 - 04:43 PM

Here's a temporary midi of Carol of the Bagpipes. After more information, I'll post the words and midi to the DT.

I think the first two lines are a dead ringer for "He Shall Feed His Flock." (Imagine it just a little slower.)

The line starting with "Never so brightly..." sounds a bit like "Bambino Divino" to me.

Then the last line,"A message to the Magi..." sounds a little like that instrumental passage in The Messiah just preceeding "He Shall Feed His Flock." Anyone know the name of that, or where I can hear it online?

Subject: RE: Carol of the Bagpipes
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Jan 02 - 06:28 PM

In music, a siciliana is a slow pastoral piece or slow dance, as Gloredhel says. A number of the classical composers used it, and other dance forms, in parts of their compositions. I hear a slight resemblance, but I would guess that it is coincidental.

Subject: RE: Carol of the Bagpipes
From: CapriUni
Date: 19 Jan 02 - 07:58 PM

One time, just for fun, I was going through my Encarta Encyclopedia listening to all the sound clips. The article that went with the sound clips for bagpipes (one Scottish and the other for the Bulgarian bagpipes) said that the earliest bagpipes date back to the first century B.C., and were traditionally shepherds' instruments.

Considering the important role shepherds play in the Christmas story, I'm not surprised that there is at least one carol meant to be played on "their" instrument...

Subject: RE: Carol of the Bagpipes
From: RangerSteve
Date: 20 Jan 02 - 06:58 AM

Carol of the Bagpipes - it sounds like a childrens' adventure story, possibly written by Kipling, about a girl abandoned by her parents and raised by bagpipes. The climax is when she learns, in the style of "the Miracle Worker" to make human noises, as opposed to sounding like a pig mating with a cat. (just kidding, I really like bagpipes). Someone should write this story.

Subject: RE: Carol of the Bagpipes
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 20 Jan 02 - 09:44 PM

G'day,

Casting my mind back to the old, one-volume Oxford Companion to Music, by Percy Scholes, I seem to remember that he describes annual, Christmastide, visitations upon London of Italians playing zampogna and ciaramella (or similar shawn-like pipe) to play (busk?) on the streets over the Christmas period. One presumes they played their carols ... and introduced them to London - and England.

He describes this as happening a few centuries back ... when the English had a half-dozen different regional bagpipes ... and before the Scottish, the last European people to take up bagpipes, had done so.

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: Carol of the Bagpipes
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 20 Jan 02 - 10:03 PM

Thanks for the reminder, Bob.  The reference is Bagpipe Family: 7. The Bagpipe in Other Countries.

"Some of the Italian peasantry possess the bagpipe.  It is (or was not long since) common in Sicily and it lingers in the mountainous region of Abruzzi (to the north-east of Rome) where it is often accompanied by one or more separate droneless pipes... The type of music played by these pifferari (i.e. players on the piffero and bagpipers is preserved in Handel's Pastoral Symphony in his Messiah, he having, it is supposed, heard them in 1709 in Rome; for nearly two centuries after that they were to be heard in the streets there every Christmas time.  They were also right into the twentieth century to be found wandering about England and Scotland, wearing sheepskins and high conical hats."

Subject: RE: Carol of the Bagpipes
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 12:15 AM

G'day Malcolm,

Good to hear from someone that has his reference books nearby ... and doesn't have to rely on what I laughingly call my memory.

It is suggested here that the pifferari were just a little later than I thought (although one wonders if the annual visitations were the result of Handel's work ... or a long-standing custom). I was drifting towards Scholes's more contentious remarks about just how late the Scots took to the pipes... Ah, for the good old days of Newcastle Pipes and Sunderland Pipes ... &c!

Regard(les)s,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: Carol of the Bagpipes
From: pavane
Date: 10 Jan 05 - 12:22 PM

Just noticed this old thread - there is a picture at my web site (www.greenhedges.com) of Italian bagpipers in Udine, but I doubt that they were playing Carols in September!

These pipes only had one chanter though

Subject: RE: Carol of the Bagpipes
From: wysiwyg
Date: 10 Jan 05 - 12:35 PM

That association with Handel-- no wonder "He Shall Feed His Flock" sounds like part of "Twas on a Night Like This" which is also said to be based on a traditional Italian piece. This must be the one!

~S~

Subject: RE: Carol of the Bagpipes
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jan 05 - 12:37 PM

Is this Carol Anne Mackay of Dochas?

Subject: RE: Carol of the Bagpipes
From: wysiwyg
Date: 10 Jan 05 - 10:32 PM

MIDI to harvest here:

http://www.hymnsandcarolsofchristmas.com/Hymns_and_Carols/carol_of_the_bagpipers.htm

~S~

Subject: RE: Carol of the Bagpipes
From: LadyJean
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 12:31 AM

I think it was in the music book when I was in grade school.

I remember, "Shepherds leave your flocks by night.
             Follow yonder star so bright"
             "Haydum haydum tiddly dum"
             "Haydum Haydum tiddly dum"
There was a second verse about "On your bagpipes doodle gay."
Haydum tiddly dum, presumably mimicing the sound of the bagpipes. So, check out grade school music books.

Subject: RE: Origins: Carol of the Bagpipes
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 Mar 07 - 03:13 PM

Lyr. Add: CANZONE D'L ZAMPOGNARI
Bagpipers' Carol, Sicily

1.
Quanno nascette Ninno a Betelem me,
E rannotee pa rea miezo journo
Maje le stelle, lusteree belle,
Seve dettero accusi!
La chiu lucen to
Jet tea chiamma li
Magi, in Oriente.
2.
No n'cerano nemice ppe le terra,
La pecora pascia co lo lione,
Co le crappet
Se vedette
Lo liopardo pazzia:
L'urzo e o vitiello,
E co lu lupo 'npace u pecoriello.
3.
Guardavano le pecore lu pasture;
E l'angelo sbrennente chiu de lu sule,
Comparette
E le dicette:
'No ve spaventate, no!
Contento e riso;
La terra e arrenventata paradise!'

"Traditional Sicilian Carol, also known by the first line. Midi and Noteworthy Composer.

Discussed above by weepiper and MMario. From Hymns and Carols of Christmas: http://www.hymnsandcarolsofchristmas.com/Hymns_and_Carols/NonEnglish/canzone_dl_zampognari.htm
Canzone

"The carol originated in Sicily in approximately the seventeenth century, and is traditionally played on the zampogna (a type of large, sweet-toned bagpipe with two drones and two chanters) by shepherds who would come to the villages throughout Italy. The shepherds would serenade private homes and statues of the Virgin Mary in the nine days before Christmas."

I am confused by the references; the version given above may be Neapolitan.
Folkinfo says that "The Shorter New Oxford Book of Carols has this under the name 'Quando nascette Ninno,' identifying it as a Neapolitan traditional and gives the Italian...."

Folkinfo provides music and English lyrics for the following carol, referring to Discussion/The Bagpipers' Carol/Canzone D'l Zampognari/Quando nascette Ninno/
It is not a translation of "Canzone D'l Zampognari" (above).

Lyr. Add: THE BAGPIPERS' CAROL
Lyricist?
1.
The night the babe was born,
A star lit up the sky,
The darkness vanished from the earth
And songs came from on high,
Bringing gifts of myrrh and gold
And frankincense from lands a-far.
Came wise men of the East,
Who journeyed on to Bethlehem
Led by the shining star.
2.
And on that starry night,
A calm fell on the earth.
The world at last was filled with love
Because Mary gave birth.
All the creatures shared the joy
And gathered round the oxen stall,
Where Jesus laid in peace:
A tender, helpless Babe,
Yet born a King to save us all.
3.
To shepherds in the fields
Appeared a glorious light,
An angel came and stood before them
All glorious in white.
Then the angel told the shepherds
Of the truth, the Life, the Way
With praise they danced and sang
And played upon their pipes,
New tunes to celebrate that day.

Source: Singing Together, Autumn 1984, BBC Publications.
Notes: This is identified as an Italian carol and is taken from "The Lindsay Carol Book."
http://www.folkinfo.org/songs/displaysong.php?songid=640
The Bagpipers Carol