Guitar tuning DAGDAD

Subject: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: ganainm
Date: 19 Jan 02 - 07:56 AM

Hello guitar freaks out there!

I have been playing Irish Bouzouki for some years now using the tuning GDAD from low to high string. I decided to try this out with the guitar and came up with the following: DAGDAD, also from low to high string. This is not to be confused with the standard open D tuning "DADGAD. Obviously the low D would be an octave lower than the normal D. The sound is absolutely beautiful and is great if you want to combine melody with a droning low D. Does anyone have more information on this tuning or is there perhaps a chord chart? I have problems finding some minor cords.

Would really appreciate any help on this.

JB

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: catspaw49
Date: 19 Jan 02 - 08:35 AM

Both tunings require the special glasses and unless you have them, most things will be flat.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: Shantymanuk
Date: 19 Jan 02 - 10:00 AM

When catspaw says you need special glasses, all I can think he means is those of the guiness variety that give musicians in Ireland and the world over such inspiration. When I was experimenting with tunings for a non-theoretical guitarist a couple of years ago, I used a program called "Guitar Chord Buster". It is shareware, gives you a 29 day trial, and costs about 40 bucks to buy after that. I needed this as I don't play guitar myself. It is still available (about 2.5Mb)for download - I found it easily this morning by searching for the title. (use quotation marks as above). You can input any tuning you like, and it will work out all the chords and alternative fingerings for you in that tuning, and will play them back through your pc to see if you like the sound, as all inversions sound quite different. All I can say is it will cost you nothing to try it. By the way, I have no connection with the author of this program, I just found it incredibly useful. Let me know how you get on.

Alan

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: ganainm
Date: 19 Jan 02 - 10:40 AM

Thank you Shanty,

At least I could understand what you were were saying and felt you were trying to be helpful, whereas I couldn´t figure out what Mr. catspaw was trying to say.

I appreciate a straight answer to a perhaps unusual question and do not require a riddle for an answer. I´m not expecting any great solution-it was merely a question.

Regards.

JB

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: catspaw49
Date: 19 Jan 02 - 10:53 AM

Not a riddle....just a joke, Both are 3-D tunings. The joke is so old it's on Social Security and no 3-D tuning thread has escaped it.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 19 Jan 02 - 11:07 AM

Thanks for the thread JB! and thanks to shanty! I've been befuddled by the same question many times.

Is there something comparable for banjo? I "know" of ten or so tunings but since I love to use 'full' chords in the "brush" part of frailing I felt limited not knowing what made what chord.

I always felt that if I knew music theory I could figure it all out but MT just doesn't register in my brain.

good stuff guys!

CB

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 19 Jan 02 - 11:54 AM

Catspaw has always been a riddle wrapped in an enigma, ganainm. We here at the Mudcat apologize for his inappropriate "funnin", and hope his comment hasn't diverted the deadly serious intent of the thread.

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 19 Jan 02 - 12:04 PM

Also, if yer gonna do a serious search fo the TGCB, you may as well download the crack that's out there as well, that way you don't have to pay for it...

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: Jeri
Date: 19 Jan 02 - 12:09 PM

Here's the Asto Guitar Generator. You can plug in the notes your strings are tuned to and look for chords. You could also just use DADGAD chords and reverse the middle two strings.

Question: Why do people call DADGAD open D tuning when it has no F# and it does have a G?

I'm not talking about just JB's reference up there - I've seen plenty of others refer to it that way, and one thread about "Open D" was assumed by quite a few folks to be a discussion of DADGAD.

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 19 Jan 02 - 12:16 PM

Thanks for the chord guide, Jeri!

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: M.Ted
Date: 19 Jan 02 - 01:11 PM

I am dubious of the value of any program that cranks out guitar chord positions, just because the program has no sense of what is useful and what isn't, and you're going to have a ton of stuff to sort through----alternate tunings mostly use a fairly small palate of positions and chord fingerings, and someone worked out the tuning because it allowed them to do certain things that didn't work well in other tunings--

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: GUEST,alinact
Date: 20 Jan 02 - 10:36 AM

I hope this doesn't sound dumb but, JB, do you tune the D and G strings up or down. I tuned the D string down to G but it was too floppy and tinny, and when I went to tune up I chickened out at about F and a quarter.

Allan

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 20 Jan 02 - 07:14 PM

alinact has asked a question which should have been asked right at the start of the thread.

Think about it. DAGDAD This is the most ridiculous tuning suggestion I have ever heard. There are plenty of useful tunings out there. This isn't one of them.

Murray

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: M.Ted
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 12:43 AM

I don't know if the tuning is as useless as Murray says, Ganainm, but, as I said, "someone worked out the tuning because it allowed them to do certain things that didn't work well in other tunings'-that some one would be you--so why don't you tell us how you've been using this tuning--

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: GUEST,A Dadgad'er
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 04:14 AM

DADGAD is a most useful tuning used by many professional guitar players. Pierre Bensusan uses it exclusively. Tony McManus uses it extensively among many other tunings. There are many sources for this tuning. These two chaps have tuition videos on the Stefan Grossman web site. There playing is awesome. John Sherman has a few CD's and books that are good starting point if you want to learn a few finger picking tunes in DADGAD. Martin Solomon has also a book /CD package on this with some wonderful arraignments. I play mostly in this tuning, finger picking, and for backing in a session. It provides a beautiful drone behind the session playing and really fills out the music. Do a google search on these artists. I recently Bought a Bouzouki GDAD and I am looking for info sources, Perhaps we can swap notes ?

DADGAD'er

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: catspaw49
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 06:45 AM

Dear DADGAD'er,

Perhaps you lost track of the topic somewhere along the line. DADGAD is a well known and very popular tuning and it's talked about here on the 'Cat and elsewhere at great length. No one here is suggesting that DADGAD is weird or even remotely new to most of us. It is probably the most popular alternate tuning around.

The original post here was on DAGDAD which the poster was experimenting with and a few folks have questioned it's viability. Ted asked what the experience and motivation for the tuning was after Murray suggested it was "useless."

I'm curious too and wonder what it works on so well because I tried it both tuned up and down and didn't find it sounded great in any application I could think of, but then again, I don't go nuts over alt tunings all the time either....some seem to use nothing else. I think there may be a time and place for everything....so where does this work so well?

Spaw

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: GUEST,A Dadgad'er
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 08:06 AM

Spaw

I was trying to be helpful and answer the original question pointing JB to a few well know sources. I have no idea what you are talking about or how you have miss-read my answer. I was not being critical or curt of any previous posts. Murray suggests it's now a useful tuning. Listen to some of Pierrie Bensusan It does not restrict him in any way or to any key. He is widely recognised as a master musician. I personally think its "horses for courses" There are many fantastic guitarists who stick to standard and there are many who have delved into alternate tunings. I enjoy the tuning because it can give a wonderful harp like sound. While backing other folk musicians you can provide a wonderful drone that really fills in the bottom end.

Regards

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: catspaw49
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 08:20 AM

...uh-huh.........Guess my screen's dirty...........

DADGAD
DAGDAD

.......yeah, that must be it................

Spaw

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 08:41 AM

The practice of changing the strings of the Lute for an easier playing is as old as the instrument. Lots of references can be found in the Arabian Nights.
I remember a short piece by Paganini for guitar in G major, very difficult to play at first, but easy when I changed the strings to GHDGHD (up).

Wilfried

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 09:42 AM

I was unaware that lutes had an H -string. I want one for my guitar.

As far as DAGDAD goes, perhaps the easiest way to realise how absurd the suggestion seems is to visualize that in order for the tuning to have any sonic integrity you would have to restring the guitar using your third (G) string in place of your fourth (D) string, and vice versa. How strange is that going to feel ? You would need to have a guitar permanently strung like this, so there had better be some really good sounds available.

I think what I find really bizarre is the concept of having the third open string sounding a whole tone below the fourth string. I don't personally know any open tunings in which this procedure is adopted and I find it very difficult to envisage what the unique advantage would be.

I have no doubt somebody will write in and say that David Wilcox or one of the Wyndham Hill mob use just some such weird tuning on some obscure piece .............

Murray

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 09:47 AM

Uh, what I should have said above is
I think what I find really bizarre is the concept of having the fourth open string sounding a whole tone below the fifth string

Murray

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: catspaw49
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 09:49 AM

That's okay Murray......The Dyslexia seems to be running rampant. Some of it may have rubbed off on you!!!!............LMAO........

Spaw

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 09:56 AM

My eyes are perfectly KO. thank you .....:-)

Murray

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: M.Ted
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 12:00 PM

H is the German term for B natural--don't ask me why--and I had to laugh when someone decided to tell Murray about Tony McManus--

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: Jeri
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 12:15 PM

Murray wrote: "I have no doubt somebody will write in and say that David Wilcox or one of the Wyndham Hill mob use just some such weird tuning on some obscure piece............. "

Try Davey Graham. From this article:

"Still, despite the rareness and deficiencies of some instruments, performing styles did improve in the Sixties. For guitarists, a quantum leap had been the arrival of Bert Jansch ("the first player who really created, not copied"). Davey Graham represented another departure, introducing DAGDAD tuning. "He did it to play Indian material", remembers Archie, "and it also proved for Scottish songs. Different tunings helped me personally. 'Dropped D' compensated for the weak 'bottom end' of the Kalamazoo. Mind you, DAGDAD confused folk, I'd say it took over a decade to become widely accepted.>

(Maybe it's a typo, but it seems to be a consistent typo. I found another web page on Led Zeppelin, saying as how they'd recorded a Davey Graham song in DAGDAD.)

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: Jeri
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 12:21 PM

I was off in my statement about the Zep recording.

The Zep page is here.

"White Summer" - This Page composition draws upon Davey Graham's "She Moved Through The Fair", credited to a traditional arrangement, but performed in a DAGDAD tuning."

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: catspaw49
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 12:27 PM

Okay gang........Is it DAGDAD or a typo? I vote typo while viewing the world through a dirty screen!

How many have actually known anyone or have themselves played in DAGDAD?

Spaw

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 01:11 PM

The quote from Archie (Fisher I presume )
Mind you, DAGDAD confused folk, I'd say it took over a decade to become widely accepted.
indicates unmistakably that it is a typo and that the tuning under discussion was in fact DADGAD.

Murray

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: ganainm
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 01:15 PM

Hello again Mudcatters,

First of all thanks to all of you for your contributions on this rather strange guitar tuning. I feel I should explain a little more about this tuning.

As previously stated, I have been playing the Irish Bouzouki for years now, using the GDAD tuning, from base to high string. This has a beautiful sound, however I always found it to be lacking somewhat in bass sound, especially when using it as an accompaniment for songs. As a result, I started experimenting somewhat and tried to apply this tuning to the guitar. I used the exact same tuning for the top 4 strings. I left the 5th string (A) as it is and dropped the 6th string down to a low D (octave lower than normal D). This now gives me the unusual tuning of DAGDAD. Note the G 3rd is also an octave lower than usual. I know the arguments about the strings sounding slacker, but the solution here is to use medium-gauge strings (0.13). The sound is so incredibly beautiful. The great advantage also is that one can play a chord accompaniment as well as melody for tunes using the D as a low drone. Obviously one would ideally need a 2nd guitar on stage for this purpose. By using the capo, I can now play in a variety of my favourite keys, e.g. capo 2nd fret (E major), capo 5th fret (G major) etc.

Now I will return to my original question. Does anybody have any chord charts for this? I can work out most things myself, however I sometimes have problems finding minor chords.

I would like to add some comments here to some of the subscribers of this thread:

Thanks Jeri for the tip about Asto Guitar Generator, I´m checking this out now!

Alan as I said, the D 6th is a full octave lower that a normal D on the guitar as is also the G 4th and this will only sound well with medium-gauge strings.

Regarding Murray´s statement:

This is the most ridiculous tuning suggestion I have ever heard. There are plenty of useful tunings out there. This isn't one of them.

I find this comment somewhat cheap and judgmental. Hopefully you are not suggesting that Pierre Bensusan or Tony McManus or Stefan Grossman are using useless tunings. Are you a musician Murray and if so have you got a website? Would certainly love to hear some of your material! If you want to see mine, check out:

www.john-barden.de

Thanks again to those I felt tried to help.

JB

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: Jeri
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 01:16 PM

Well, I guess Archie was right about it confusing people!

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 01:19 PM

MTed, that is interesting info, I must confess I had no idea that the Germans did things differently.

But I am a little comfused. Does that mean that the scale of C natural goes C,D,E,F,G,A,H,C in Germany ? They are usually such logical people ....

And this Tony McManus ....Nowwhere have I heard that name before?

Murray

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: catspaw49
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 01:22 PM

Jeri, all I know....and it is damn little....is that somebody here is confused!!! So Murray....as the 'Cat's number 1 Tony M. fan, are you suitably humbled to know that though you've believed for years that he uses DADGAD, he actually uses DAGDAD?

Has this thread become completely screwed or what? (answer is NOT "or what")

Spaw

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 01:28 PM

ganainm, yes I am a musician and I have personally known and played with Tony McManus for the better part of ten years, and I have never known him to play in DAGDAD. Nor am I aware that Pierre Bensusan plays in DAGDAD. Nor for that matter does Stefan Grossman.

What all three of these fine musicians do is play in DADGAD.

Spaw, you know the HTML for big letters. Can't you spell it out once and for all fer Chrissakes.

Murray

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: catspaw49
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 01:47 PM

Okay Murray....I'll try, but I don't hold a lot of faith in any understanding.........

Tony M and about 10,000+ other guitar players use this tuning:

D-A-D-G-A-D

JB/gan....Your first post asks about this tuning:

D-A-G-D-A-D

DO YOU SEE THE DIFFERENCE?

Look at it in BIG letters:

D-A-D-G-A-D

D-A-G-D-A-D

Can you see it yet? JB/ger....YOU said in your first post that we were NOT to confuse DAGDAD with DADGAD and it seems you need to follow your own advice. Tony M. DOES NOT PLAY in DAGDAD, and I doubt to many others have tried it either and YOU suggested that you had kind of "invented it" in a way yourself. FINE!!! Are we clear yet? Look at it again.............

Spaw

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 01:52 PM

ganainm, I have tried out the tuning as you suggest and I can see some, but very little potential in it. The problem is due to the fact that the dissonant G string in DAGDAD is tuned an octave lower than the dissonant G in DADGAD consequently any upper fret use of this string for melodic effect (which every DADGAD guitarist does) is going to sound really low and drony.

My feeling is that the DADGAD tuning is so incredibly useful and has so much potential, why would you want to make life difficult for yourself by even bothering with DAGDAD, when you can do everything you want in DADGAD with so much more fluency?

Murray

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 01:55 PM

I'm off to the ophthalmologist, I'm starting to see double ....

Murray

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: M.Ted
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 01:58 PM

B apparently refers to Bb-within the constructs of music, B relative to C is actually a rather recent innovation--(at least in the way that major and minor scales are more recent than modes) apparently, they just went on to the next available letter to name it, and left it at that--

If I understand ganainm, his tuning allows him to play melody as he has done it on the "irish bouzouki"(don't get me started on that miscegenation!) but to drop in bass notes and occasional chords--This is a rather clever adaptation, and no doubt a boon for IB players--as to regular guitar players, it is of dubious value, if only because we have learnt all of our scales and chords based on the standard tuning of the guitar--

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: GUEST,alinact
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 02:11 PM

Thanks fella's - I thought I was going nutty there for a while!

Allan

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 02:23 PM

I think that this whole discussion would be further illuminated by a thorough explanation of some even more useful alternate tunings, such as...

GADGAD a very neat tuning system.

DADDAD don't knock it till you've tried it!

BADDAD better than it sounds.

and DDDDDD for those who really like the drone technique and go in for modal tunings in the key of D.

- LH

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 02:23 PM

I think M.Ted's second paragraph sums it all up most succinctly.

Murray

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: catspaw49
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 02:26 PM

I think I've decided to go to an A-B-C-D-E-F tuning and get back to basics. The basics of what, I have no idea...........

Spaw

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: ganainm
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 02:39 PM

Hello again,

Yep! sorry Murray I got my knickers in a knot there about Pierre Bensusan and Tony McManus.

No problem, I will plough along with this tuning as I happen to like the sound very much.

By the way I don´t recall saying I was German. Does the fact that one has a German address mean he is German? Actually I´m from Ireland!

I think it´s time to put a cap on this one!

Slain

JB

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 02:47 PM

JB, I wasn't suggesting you were German, I was referring to another post by M.Ted where he informed us that H was the German nomenclature for B natural. (Bit of thread creep there, apologies)

Best of luck with exploring your tuning !

Murray.

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: hesperis
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 03:46 PM

Blue Clicky to John's site

Check him out pholks, the sound is great!

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 04:40 PM

Spaw, I thought I would give you a kickstart with your ABCDEF tuning

CHORD of C Major in ABCDEF tuning = 310202
CHORD of F Major in ABCDEF tuning = 010310
CHORD of G7 in ABCDEF tuning = 202030

I realise that this won't enable you to play Black Mountain Rag straight off, but at least you will be able to strum to "Michael Row the Boat Ashore"

Murray

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: Bill D
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 04:52 PM

this whole thread is a BADGAG

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: M.Ted
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 04:55 PM

Now we know why guitar tunings were standardized in the first place--

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 06:35 PM

How about GAGBAG? Sounds downright painful. But it's only 1 letter different from GIGBAG, so it's GOT to be musical!

- LH

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: hesperis
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 07:12 PM

Yes, but even if HAMSTER and SHATNER are only 1 letter different, there is a BIG difference between them!

So I think there's quite a BIG difference between a GIGBAG and a GAGBAG. *grin*

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 11:32 PM

Yes, most hamsters can act better than Shatner...when they choose to. But no hamster has yet had an acting school founded in its name.

James T. Kirk
and
Mask it, jerk!

are perfect anagrams!!!! I believe this sheds some light on the profound influence Shatner has had on the whole genre of dramatic acting and stage technique, specially in the area of dialogue.

As for hamsters, well, they are very clever little creatures...and they amazing thing is that all hamsters presently in "captivity" (if I may use that word) are descended from only 3 individuals...who came out of the same litter!!! Incredible, but true. If you don't believe me, look it up.

- LH

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: GUEST,PaulM
Date: 22 Jan 02 - 04:23 AM

that all hamsters ... are descended from only 3 individuals... If you don't believe me, look it up

I did, here, and they're not...

Paul

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 22 Jan 02 - 08:09 AM

LH, you are confusing hamsters with thoroughbred racehorses (an easy and understandable mistake)

All thoroughbred racehorses are descended from three stallions, the Darley Arabian, the Godolphin Barb, and the Byerley Turk. All three were very puissant stallions.

Murray

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: catspaw49
Date: 22 Jan 02 - 08:14 AM

Tiny little fockers huh Murray? Real pissants. And Murray....Watch your spelling.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: GUEST,CelticAvenger
Date: 06 Apr 16 - 10:39 PM

I've been experimenting with and playing the music for more than forty years now. As I discover this today--even 14 years on from the original thread--I am awestruck at what a bunch of asinine snobs you all are. The man asked an honest question. Comes from a modern tradition of Irish Bouzouki which you clearly didn't and probably still don't understand. And all you could do was belittle him.

Stay stuck in your rut angry old men. People who try new things will continue to change and rule the world.

Subject: RE: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: michaelr
Date: 07 Apr 16 - 02:22 AM

(thumb up symbol)

Subject: RE: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Apr 16 - 03:44 AM

i suppose you would have to use heavier string for string 4? but its a perfectly logical tuning

Subject: RE: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: GUEST,Rev Bayes
Date: 15 Apr 16 - 03:58 PM

Hmm. I wonder if you went down this road if DF#GDAD wouldn't make more sense.

Subject: RE: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Apr 16 - 07:55 PM

Could be a blind alley

Subject: RE: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: Stanron
Date: 15 Apr 16 - 09:17 PM

This has been a truly wierd thread. The original poster explains a perfectly logical, step by step, route to a tuning he likes and can use and just gets a load of abuse.

So 14 years on, if anyone is still interested

  Em
  
  2 2 4 5 2 2
  
  or
  
  E minor
  ╒═╤═╤═╤═╤═╕
  │ │ │ │ │ │
  ├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
  R O │ │ O O
  ├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
  │ │ │•│ │ │
  ├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
  │ │ 0 │ │ │
  ├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
  │ │ │•O │ │
  ├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
  
  where R is the root, and
  
  Am
  
  2 3 2 2 3 2
  
  or
  
  A minor
  ╒═╤═╤═╤═╤═╕
  │ │ │ │ │ │
  ├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
  O │ R O │ O
  ├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
  │ O │•│ O │
  ├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤

again R is the root.

These are both bar chords and moving them up or down will get any other minors you need.

You could use just part of them

Subject: RE: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: Stanron
Date: 15 Apr 16 - 09:23 PM

By the way this is a fretboard diagram of that tuning. If you know the notes in the chords you want you can look for them here.

  D A G D A D
  ╒═╤═╤═╤═╤═╕        
  │ │ │ │ │ │        
  ├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤        
  E B A E B E        
  ├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤        
  F C │•F C F        
  ├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤        
  │ │ B │ │ │        
  ├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤        
  G D C•G D G        
  ├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤        
  │ │ │ │ │ │        
  ├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤        
  A E D•A E A        
  ├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤        
  │ F │ │ F │
  ├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
  B │ E•B │ B
  ├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
  C G F C G C
  ├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
  │ │ │ │ │ │
  ├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
  D A•G D•A D
  ├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤

Subject: RE: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Apr 16 - 03:41 AM

interesting stanron

Subject: RE: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Apr 16 - 08:01 AM

> The original poster explains a perfectly logical, step by step, route to a tuning he likes and can use and just gets a load of abuse.

You must be new here. Welcome to the internet ;)

Subject: RE: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: Stanron
Date: 16 Apr 16 - 09:53 AM

This is Mudcat, not just the internet. It is supposed to be a meeting place for people with like interests. I'm not new to here or the internet. I do prefer to hang out in places where civility trumps spite and mostly above the line here it does.

Below the line there is now a rule that says anonymous guests do not get to post. Since that rule below the line has become more civil.

If anonymous guests start trolling above the line I would like to think they get barred here as well.

Subject: RE: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Apr 16 - 12:10 PM

10 to 15 years ago when I had more time and enthusiasm I experimented with all sorts of random tunings and string configurations..

[it helps if you own more guitars than is sensible...]

The results could be very positively interesting and musically satisfying,
opening up surprising directions for riffs and chordal drones that could be quite inspiring.....

Often ignorance of musical theory and the foundations & conventions/authodoxies set in stone by previous players
can be a wonderful source of individual creativity... 😜

If it sounds good, record and mix it into the track !!!

Some particular guitars were better platforms for experimentation than other..

Eg a well made weird looking Korean Heavy Metal 6 string bass equipped with active electronics....

Maybe one day I might find my scraps of paper with the tunings written down...???

Subject: RE: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: GUEST,Sol
Date: 17 Apr 16 - 06:45 AM

As a dyslexic person, reading this thread has been a nightmare however discovering that the DADGAD/DAGDAD war is over is music to my arse 😀

Subject: RE: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: PHJim
Date: 17 Apr 16 - 01:10 PM

I like the GDAD tuning for a long neck mandolin. I find it works well with a guitar tuned in DADGAD. Many of the chord shapes used on a GDAE tuned mandolin are not possible to play on a long necked mandolin tuned as an octave mandolin, but dropping that first string a whole tone just seems to make everything easier.
I'd think using octave mandolin strings for the first four strings and guitar strings for the 5th and 6th strings would be a good solution to arriving at DAGDAD.

Subject: RE: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: GUEST,OldNicKilby
Date: 27 Nov 17 - 07:50 AM

Just a reminder that it was Davy Grahams Birthday yesterday

Subject: RE: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: GUEST,Marty
Date: 27 Oct 21 - 12:13 AM

Happening upon this thread many years later, I note that some of the hostility toward the original poster had to do with the use of H for B. In fact, that is exactly so. For instance, Bach’s quite famous Mass in B Minor is also known as the Messe in H-moll, BWV 232. Easy to look up.

Subject: RE: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: The Sandman
Date: 27 Oct 21 - 03:42 AM

Jeri asked a very good question, the answer is ignorance [lack of knowledge.
stanron put up avery good fretboard diagram, it is also very easy these days to find out what is the difference between minor and major chords and dyads that have no third, or notes that determine whether a chord is major or minor. a little knowledge does not deter from people experimenting with shapes to make intersting musical diuscoveries, what it does is allow them to analyse their discovery afterwards and make a note of the chord progression.

Subject: RE: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: gillymor
Date: 27 Oct 21 - 08:19 AM

I've never understood the antipathy toward, or the worship of, this tuning. It's just a scheme for making music.
There's a PDF for a lovely version of Shenandoah in DADGAD by Doug Young at his website.. It should be doable for intermediate level pickers even if they're not familiar with the tuning.

Shenandoah tab

Subject: RE: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: The Sandman
Date: 27 Oct 21 - 10:44 AM

all gutar tunings have limtations,
dadgad is useful but imo it is more difficult to play ragtime in this tuning than say in standard, general opinion seems to be it is very useful for playing in d modal.
Martin Carthy is of the opinion that it is not as flexible as the tunings that he uses, one of which cgcdga, he says he can play in four or five keys quote c,g.f d and possibly a minor,
nic jones also used different tunings opther than dadgad. that does not mean dadgad is not useful, but neither is it the be all and end all for everything
pierre bensusan uses it very well

Subject: RE: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: GUEST,Beachcomber
Date: 27 Oct 21 - 06:08 PM

I hesitated , over the years, to enter this often catty and dismissive thread, because of it's general tone. It's great to hear your calm resolution of the discussion Sandman, no musical snobbery, no subtle racist prejudice, just honest to god information. Thanks !

Subject: RE: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: Jeri
Date: 27 Oct 21 - 06:20 PM

For the record, this thread is not about DADGAD, it's about DAGDAD.
My question, from 19 years ago was about DADGAD. Off topic.

If you want to discuss DADGAD, you should, IMO, do it in an appropriate thread. Which isn't this one, because in this thread, it's confusing. Thank you.

Subject: RE: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: GUEST,Mark
Date: 28 Oct 21 - 01:55 AM

Sticking to DAGDAD, I wonder if removing the "reentrant" aspect would make it slightly less awkward.

Martin Carthy's CGCDGA tuning only made sense to me when I read the explanation that it was cello tuning with some interpolated.strings - CGcDgA (capitals here highlight the cello tuning, they don't indicate octave). Similarly, I vaguely recall Ged Foley of the House Band explaining to me that his guitar had tenor banjo tuning with 2 other strings interpolated, but I forget the fine detail.

On that basis, I think that if I wanted to interpolate Irish 'zouk tuning into a guitar, I'd use dGaDAD. String gauges may be fun, as I doubt a normal set would respond well to this tuning, and I'd expect to have to widen the nut slot for the 3rd string.

Subject: RE: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: The Sandman
Date: 28 Oct 21 - 04:09 AM

Jeri i realise that and my comment in refernce to yourself was about dagdad, gillymor diverted the thread to dadgad, tenor banjo tunings are cgda and more common these days gdae, although there is another occasional one called chicago DGBE THE top 4 of standard guitar

Subject: RE: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: gillymor
Date: 28 Oct 21 - 05:29 AM

Uhhh...nevermind.
I mostly keep my zouk and my octave mandolin tuned to GDAD and I've thought about tuning a guitar to DAGDAD. I play a lot of 2 note chords on the GD strings with a drone on the high AD strings and I don't see why having another set of lower DA drone strings wouldn't work. It might be a huge sound but my zouk sounds so good as it is for tune accompaniment I've never bothered checking it out.