Guitar tuning DAGDAD

Subject: RE: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: gillymor
Date: 28 Oct 21 - 05:29 AM

Uhhh...nevermind.
I mostly keep my zouk and my octave mandolin tuned to GDAD and I've thought about tuning a guitar to DAGDAD. I play a lot of 2 note chords on the GD strings with a drone on the high AD strings and I don't see why having another set of lower DA drone strings wouldn't work. It might be a huge sound but my zouk sounds so good as it is for tune accompaniment I've never bothered checking it out.

Subject: RE: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: The Sandman
Date: 28 Oct 21 - 04:09 AM

Jeri i realise that and my comment in refernce to yourself was about dagdad, gillymor diverted the thread to dadgad, tenor banjo tunings are cgda and more common these days gdae, although there is another occasional one called chicago DGBE THE top 4 of standard guitar

Subject: RE: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: GUEST,Mark
Date: 28 Oct 21 - 01:55 AM

Sticking to DAGDAD, I wonder if removing the "reentrant" aspect would make it slightly less awkward.

Martin Carthy's CGCDGA tuning only made sense to me when I read the explanation that it was cello tuning with some interpolated.strings - CGcDgA (capitals here highlight the cello tuning, they don't indicate octave). Similarly, I vaguely recall Ged Foley of the House Band explaining to me that his guitar had tenor banjo tuning with 2 other strings interpolated, but I forget the fine detail.

On that basis, I think that if I wanted to interpolate Irish 'zouk tuning into a guitar, I'd use dGaDAD. String gauges may be fun, as I doubt a normal set would respond well to this tuning, and I'd expect to have to widen the nut slot for the 3rd string.

Subject: RE: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: Jeri
Date: 27 Oct 21 - 06:20 PM

For the record, this thread is not about DADGAD, it's about DAGDAD.
My question, from 19 years ago was about DADGAD. Off topic.

If you want to discuss DADGAD, you should, IMO, do it in an appropriate thread. Which isn't this one, because in this thread, it's confusing. Thank you.

Subject: RE: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: GUEST,Beachcomber
Date: 27 Oct 21 - 06:08 PM

I hesitated , over the years, to enter this often catty and dismissive thread, because of it's general tone. It's great to hear your calm resolution of the discussion Sandman, no musical snobbery, no subtle racist prejudice, just honest to god information. Thanks !

Subject: RE: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: The Sandman
Date: 27 Oct 21 - 10:44 AM

all gutar tunings have limtations,
dadgad is useful but imo it is more difficult to play ragtime in this tuning than say in standard, general opinion seems to be it is very useful for playing in d modal.
Martin Carthy is of the opinion that it is not as flexible as the tunings that he uses, one of which cgcdga, he says he can play in four or five keys quote c,g.f d and possibly a minor,
nic jones also used different tunings opther than dadgad. that does not mean dadgad is not useful, but neither is it the be all and end all for everything
pierre bensusan uses it very well

Subject: RE: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: gillymor
Date: 27 Oct 21 - 08:19 AM

I've never understood the antipathy toward, or the worship of, this tuning. It's just a scheme for making music.
There's a PDF for a lovely version of Shenandoah in DADGAD by Doug Young at his website.. It should be doable for intermediate level pickers even if they're not familiar with the tuning.

Shenandoah tab

Subject: RE: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: The Sandman
Date: 27 Oct 21 - 03:42 AM

Jeri asked a very good question, the answer is ignorance [lack of knowledge.
stanron put up avery good fretboard diagram, it is also very easy these days to find out what is the difference between minor and major chords and dyads that have no third, or notes that determine whether a chord is major or minor. a little knowledge does not deter from people experimenting with shapes to make intersting musical diuscoveries, what it does is allow them to analyse their discovery afterwards and make a note of the chord progression.

Subject: RE: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: GUEST,Marty
Date: 27 Oct 21 - 12:13 AM

Happening upon this thread many years later, I note that some of the hostility toward the original poster had to do with the use of H for B. In fact, that is exactly so. For instance, Bach’s quite famous Mass in B Minor is also known as the Messe in H-moll, BWV 232. Easy to look up.

Subject: RE: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: GUEST,OldNicKilby
Date: 27 Nov 17 - 07:50 AM

Just a reminder that it was Davy Grahams Birthday yesterday

Subject: RE: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: PHJim
Date: 17 Apr 16 - 01:10 PM

I like the GDAD tuning for a long neck mandolin. I find it works well with a guitar tuned in DADGAD. Many of the chord shapes used on a GDAE tuned mandolin are not possible to play on a long necked mandolin tuned as an octave mandolin, but dropping that first string a whole tone just seems to make everything easier.
I'd think using octave mandolin strings for the first four strings and guitar strings for the 5th and 6th strings would be a good solution to arriving at DAGDAD.

Subject: RE: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: GUEST,Sol
Date: 17 Apr 16 - 06:45 AM

As a dyslexic person, reading this thread has been a nightmare however discovering that the DADGAD/DAGDAD war is over is music to my arse 😀

Subject: RE: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Apr 16 - 12:10 PM

10 to 15 years ago when I had more time and enthusiasm I experimented with all sorts of random tunings and string configurations..

[it helps if you own more guitars than is sensible...]

The results could be very positively interesting and musically satisfying,
opening up surprising directions for riffs and chordal drones that could be quite inspiring.....

Often ignorance of musical theory and the foundations & conventions/authodoxies set in stone by previous players
can be a wonderful source of individual creativity... 😜

If it sounds good, record and mix it into the track !!!

Some particular guitars were better platforms for experimentation than other..

Eg a well made weird looking Korean Heavy Metal 6 string bass equipped with active electronics....

Maybe one day I might find my scraps of paper with the tunings written down...???

Subject: RE: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: Stanron
Date: 16 Apr 16 - 09:53 AM

This is Mudcat, not just the internet. It is supposed to be a meeting place for people with like interests. I'm not new to here or the internet. I do prefer to hang out in places where civility trumps spite and mostly above the line here it does.

Below the line there is now a rule that says anonymous guests do not get to post. Since that rule below the line has become more civil.

If anonymous guests start trolling above the line I would like to think they get barred here as well.

Subject: RE: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Apr 16 - 08:01 AM

> The original poster explains a perfectly logical, step by step, route to a tuning he likes and can use and just gets a load of abuse.

You must be new here. Welcome to the internet ;)

Subject: RE: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Apr 16 - 03:41 AM

interesting stanron

Subject: RE: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: Stanron
Date: 15 Apr 16 - 09:23 PM

By the way this is a fretboard diagram of that tuning. If you know the notes in the chords you want you can look for them here.

  D A G D A D
  ╒═╤═╤═╤═╤═╕        
  │ │ │ │ │ │        
  ├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤        
  E B A E B E        
  ├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤        
  F C │•F C F        
  ├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤        
  │ │ B │ │ │        
  ├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤        
  G D C•G D G        
  ├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤        
  │ │ │ │ │ │        
  ├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤        
  A E D•A E A        
  ├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤        
  │ F │ │ F │
  ├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
  B │ E•B │ B
  ├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
  C G F C G C
  ├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
  │ │ │ │ │ │
  ├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
  D A•G D•A D
  ├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤

Subject: RE: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: Stanron
Date: 15 Apr 16 - 09:17 PM

This has been a truly wierd thread. The original poster explains a perfectly logical, step by step, route to a tuning he likes and can use and just gets a load of abuse.

So 14 years on, if anyone is still interested

  Em
  
  2 2 4 5 2 2
  
  or
  
  E minor
  ╒═╤═╤═╤═╤═╕
  │ │ │ │ │ │
  ├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
  R O │ │ O O
  ├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
  │ │ │•│ │ │
  ├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
  │ │ 0 │ │ │
  ├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
  │ │ │•O │ │
  ├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
  
  where R is the root, and
  
  Am
  
  2 3 2 2 3 2
  
  or
  
  A minor
  ╒═╤═╤═╤═╤═╕
  │ │ │ │ │ │
  ├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
  O │ R O │ O
  ├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤
  │ O │•│ O │
  ├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤

again R is the root.

These are both bar chords and moving them up or down will get any other minors you need.

You could use just part of them

Subject: RE: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Apr 16 - 07:55 PM

Could be a blind alley

Subject: RE: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: GUEST,Rev Bayes
Date: 15 Apr 16 - 03:58 PM

Hmm. I wonder if you went down this road if DF#GDAD wouldn't make more sense.

Subject: RE: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Apr 16 - 03:44 AM

i suppose you would have to use heavier string for string 4? but its a perfectly logical tuning

Subject: RE: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: michaelr
Date: 07 Apr 16 - 02:22 AM

(thumb up symbol)

Subject: RE: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: GUEST,CelticAvenger
Date: 06 Apr 16 - 10:39 PM

I've been experimenting with and playing the music for more than forty years now. As I discover this today--even 14 years on from the original thread--I am awestruck at what a bunch of asinine snobs you all are. The man asked an honest question. Comes from a modern tradition of Irish Bouzouki which you clearly didn't and probably still don't understand. And all you could do was belittle him.

Stay stuck in your rut angry old men. People who try new things will continue to change and rule the world.

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: catspaw49
Date: 22 Jan 02 - 08:14 AM

Tiny little fockers huh Murray? Real pissants. And Murray....Watch your spelling.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 22 Jan 02 - 08:09 AM

LH, you are confusing hamsters with thoroughbred racehorses (an easy and understandable mistake)

All thoroughbred racehorses are descended from three stallions, the Darley Arabian, the Godolphin Barb, and the Byerley Turk. All three were very puissant stallions.

Murray

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: GUEST,PaulM
Date: 22 Jan 02 - 04:23 AM

that all hamsters ... are descended from only 3 individuals... If you don't believe me, look it up

I did, here, and they're not...

Paul

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 11:32 PM

Yes, most hamsters can act better than Shatner...when they choose to. But no hamster has yet had an acting school founded in its name.

James T. Kirk
and
Mask it, jerk!

are perfect anagrams!!!! I believe this sheds some light on the profound influence Shatner has had on the whole genre of dramatic acting and stage technique, specially in the area of dialogue.

As for hamsters, well, they are very clever little creatures...and they amazing thing is that all hamsters presently in "captivity" (if I may use that word) are descended from only 3 individuals...who came out of the same litter!!! Incredible, but true. If you don't believe me, look it up.

- LH

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: hesperis
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 07:12 PM

Yes, but even if HAMSTER and SHATNER are only 1 letter different, there is a BIG difference between them!

So I think there's quite a BIG difference between a GIGBAG and a GAGBAG. *grin*

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 06:35 PM

How about GAGBAG? Sounds downright painful. But it's only 1 letter different from GIGBAG, so it's GOT to be musical!

- LH

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: M.Ted
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 04:55 PM

Now we know why guitar tunings were standardized in the first place--

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: Bill D
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 04:52 PM

this whole thread is a BADGAG

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 04:40 PM

Spaw, I thought I would give you a kickstart with your ABCDEF tuning

CHORD of C Major in ABCDEF tuning = 310202
CHORD of F Major in ABCDEF tuning = 010310
CHORD of G7 in ABCDEF tuning = 202030

I realise that this won't enable you to play Black Mountain Rag straight off, but at least you will be able to strum to "Michael Row the Boat Ashore"

Murray

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: hesperis
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 03:46 PM

Blue Clicky to John's site

Check him out pholks, the sound is great!

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 02:47 PM

JB, I wasn't suggesting you were German, I was referring to another post by M.Ted where he informed us that H was the German nomenclature for B natural. (Bit of thread creep there, apologies)

Best of luck with exploring your tuning !

Murray.

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: ganainm
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 02:39 PM

Hello again,

Yep! sorry Murray I got my knickers in a knot there about Pierre Bensusan and Tony McManus.

No problem, I will plough along with this tuning as I happen to like the sound very much.

By the way I don´t recall saying I was German. Does the fact that one has a German address mean he is German? Actually I´m from Ireland!

I think it´s time to put a cap on this one!

Slain

JB

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: catspaw49
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 02:26 PM

I think I've decided to go to an A-B-C-D-E-F tuning and get back to basics. The basics of what, I have no idea...........

Spaw

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 02:23 PM

I think M.Ted's second paragraph sums it all up most succinctly.

Murray

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 02:23 PM

I think that this whole discussion would be further illuminated by a thorough explanation of some even more useful alternate tunings, such as...

GADGAD a very neat tuning system.

DADDAD don't knock it till you've tried it!

BADDAD better than it sounds.

and DDDDDD for those who really like the drone technique and go in for modal tunings in the key of D.

- LH

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: GUEST,alinact
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 02:11 PM

Thanks fella's - I thought I was going nutty there for a while!

Allan

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: M.Ted
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 01:58 PM

B apparently refers to Bb-within the constructs of music, B relative to C is actually a rather recent innovation--(at least in the way that major and minor scales are more recent than modes) apparently, they just went on to the next available letter to name it, and left it at that--

If I understand ganainm, his tuning allows him to play melody as he has done it on the "irish bouzouki"(don't get me started on that miscegenation!) but to drop in bass notes and occasional chords--This is a rather clever adaptation, and no doubt a boon for IB players--as to regular guitar players, it is of dubious value, if only because we have learnt all of our scales and chords based on the standard tuning of the guitar--

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 01:55 PM

I'm off to the ophthalmologist, I'm starting to see double ....

Murray

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 01:52 PM

ganainm, I have tried out the tuning as you suggest and I can see some, but very little potential in it. The problem is due to the fact that the dissonant G string in DAGDAD is tuned an octave lower than the dissonant G in DADGAD consequently any upper fret use of this string for melodic effect (which every DADGAD guitarist does) is going to sound really low and drony.

My feeling is that the DADGAD tuning is so incredibly useful and has so much potential, why would you want to make life difficult for yourself by even bothering with DAGDAD, when you can do everything you want in DADGAD with so much more fluency?

Murray

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: catspaw49
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 01:47 PM

Okay Murray....I'll try, but I don't hold a lot of faith in any understanding.........

Tony M and about 10,000+ other guitar players use this tuning:

D-A-D-G-A-D

JB/gan....Your first post asks about this tuning:

D-A-G-D-A-D

DO YOU SEE THE DIFFERENCE?

Look at it in BIG letters:

D-A-D-G-A-D

D-A-G-D-A-D

Can you see it yet? JB/ger....YOU said in your first post that we were NOT to confuse DAGDAD with DADGAD and it seems you need to follow your own advice. Tony M. DOES NOT PLAY in DAGDAD, and I doubt to many others have tried it either and YOU suggested that you had kind of "invented it" in a way yourself. FINE!!! Are we clear yet? Look at it again.............

Spaw

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 01:28 PM

ganainm, yes I am a musician and I have personally known and played with Tony McManus for the better part of ten years, and I have never known him to play in DAGDAD. Nor am I aware that Pierre Bensusan plays in DAGDAD. Nor for that matter does Stefan Grossman.

What all three of these fine musicians do is play in DADGAD.

Spaw, you know the HTML for big letters. Can't you spell it out once and for all fer Chrissakes.

Murray

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: catspaw49
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 01:22 PM

Jeri, all I know....and it is damn little....is that somebody here is confused!!! So Murray....as the 'Cat's number 1 Tony M. fan, are you suitably humbled to know that though you've believed for years that he uses DADGAD, he actually uses DAGDAD?

Has this thread become completely screwed or what? (answer is NOT "or what")

Spaw

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 01:19 PM

MTed, that is interesting info, I must confess I had no idea that the Germans did things differently.

But I am a little comfused. Does that mean that the scale of C natural goes C,D,E,F,G,A,H,C in Germany ? They are usually such logical people ....

And this Tony McManus ....Nowwhere have I heard that name before?

Murray

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: Jeri
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 01:16 PM

Well, I guess Archie was right about it confusing people!

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: ganainm
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 01:15 PM

Hello again Mudcatters,

First of all thanks to all of you for your contributions on this rather strange guitar tuning. I feel I should explain a little more about this tuning.

As previously stated, I have been playing the Irish Bouzouki for years now, using the GDAD tuning, from base to high string. This has a beautiful sound, however I always found it to be lacking somewhat in bass sound, especially when using it as an accompaniment for songs. As a result, I started experimenting somewhat and tried to apply this tuning to the guitar. I used the exact same tuning for the top 4 strings. I left the 5th string (A) as it is and dropped the 6th string down to a low D (octave lower than normal D). This now gives me the unusual tuning of DAGDAD. Note the G 3rd is also an octave lower than usual. I know the arguments about the strings sounding slacker, but the solution here is to use medium-gauge strings (0.13). The sound is so incredibly beautiful. The great advantage also is that one can play a chord accompaniment as well as melody for tunes using the D as a low drone. Obviously one would ideally need a 2nd guitar on stage for this purpose. By using the capo, I can now play in a variety of my favourite keys, e.g. capo 2nd fret (E major), capo 5th fret (G major) etc.

Now I will return to my original question. Does anybody have any chord charts for this? I can work out most things myself, however I sometimes have problems finding minor chords.

I would like to add some comments here to some of the subscribers of this thread:

Thanks Jeri for the tip about Asto Guitar Generator, I´m checking this out now!

Alan as I said, the D 6th is a full octave lower that a normal D on the guitar as is also the G 4th and this will only sound well with medium-gauge strings.

Regarding Murray´s statement:

This is the most ridiculous tuning suggestion I have ever heard. There are plenty of useful tunings out there. This isn't one of them.

I find this comment somewhat cheap and judgmental. Hopefully you are not suggesting that Pierre Bensusan or Tony McManus or Stefan Grossman are using useless tunings. Are you a musician Murray and if so have you got a website? Would certainly love to hear some of your material! If you want to see mine, check out:

www.john-barden.de

Thanks again to those I felt tried to help.

JB

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 01:11 PM

The quote from Archie (Fisher I presume )
Mind you, DAGDAD confused folk, I'd say it took over a decade to become widely accepted.
indicates unmistakably that it is a typo and that the tuning under discussion was in fact DADGAD.

Murray

Subject: RE: Help: Guitar tuning DAGDAD
From: catspaw49
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 12:27 PM

Okay gang........Is it DAGDAD or a typo? I vote typo while viewing the world through a dirty screen!

How many have actually known anyone or have themselves played in DAGDAD?

Spaw