Remember, Remember? (recalling lyrics)

Subject: Remember, Remember?
From: GUEST,Unicorn
Date: 20 Jan 02 - 11:45 AM

Has anyone got any helpful hints on how to remember words to songs? I love singing but get terrible "nerves" before performing, even in my local folk club where I know most people. My confidence goes followed quickly by my voice! The annoying thing is ... I can remember the words perfectly at home! Sometimes I've taken crib sheets with me but I've been told I'm not a REAL FOLKSINGER if I can't remember the words! Any suggestions? Please?

Subject: RE: Help: Remember, Remember?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 20 Jan 02 - 11:49 AM

bollox... if ya need lyric sheets in front of you, there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING wrong with that! Tell the 'real' folksingers to get down off their hight horses, and too PISS OFF because you're having fun!

As far as tricks to learn lyrics, I'm afraid that outside of pure repitition, I have nothing else to suggest...

Best of luck, AND KEEP SINGING!

.-)

Subject: RE: Help: Remember, Remember?
From: GUEST,Unicorn
Date: 20 Jan 02 - 12:04 PM

Thanks Clinton. Unfortunately some of the clubs I go to have a number of "traditional English, finger-in-the-ear" singers, so when I play my guitar I'm already on a loser! There are just so many good songs that should be heard - I just wish I could do them justice. Thanks again.

Subject: RE: Help: Remember, Remember?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 20 Jan 02 - 12:23 PM

"Unfortunately some of the clubs I go to have a number of "traditional English, finger-in-the-ear" singers, so when I play my guitar I'm already on a loser!"

Sound to me like THEY are the losers!

Arrogant, exclusionary snob a$$holes!

Subject: RE: Help: Remember, Remember?
From: GUEST,Unicorn
Date: 20 Jan 02 - 12:47 PM

Clinton - they're not all a$$holes, most are very friendly and not at all snobbish. Unfortunately the minority have louder voices! I also sing unaccompanied sometimes (some songs can stand by themselves without any instrumental accompaniment) but I never put my finger in my ear!

Subject: RE: Help: Remember, Remember?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 20 Jan 02 - 12:50 PM

Sod 'em! Even Martin Carthy has relied on crib sheets in concerts, and I've seen Tom Paxton have a sneaky look in a notebook mid set before now....

In some clubs you're not a folk singer until you DO forget the words!!!

LTS

Subject: RE: Help: Remember, Remember?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 20 Jan 02 - 12:51 PM

"not a folk singer until you DO forget the words!!!"

Feeeew! So, I'm in then...

LOL!!!!!

Subject: RE: Help: Remember, Remember?
From: GUEST,Unicorn
Date: 20 Jan 02 - 12:56 PM

Thanks Liz - well, if Tom (my all-time, number 1 hero) and Martin can have the occasional peek, perhaps I'm in good company!

Subject: RE: Help: Remember, Remember?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 20 Jan 02 - 01:03 PM

Or you could just rely on songs everyone knows so well you don't need to do anything but the first chords! Roy Bailey at Fylde a few years ago did the intro to 'Rolling Home' and didn't even get chance to sing the first word before everyone started in..... Poor man - he looked up and wailed plaintively 'at least let me do one verse!'

LTS

Subject: RE: Help: Remember, Remember?
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 20 Jan 02 - 01:42 PM

I've heard just about any great folk singer you could think of forget words to songs. I've seen them get so flummoxed in some instances where they just had to apologize, and not complete the song. I've seen it happen on Main Stages of Festivals and in large concert venues. If it would make you feel any better, I could p.m. the names of several people you'd recognize (some of whom are Mudcatters) who have totally lost it on stage. Maybe if I just mention myself, as a fair-to-middling folk singer, that will suffice.
My experience is that when you really blow a lin,e or mess up a guitar part, the first person to laugh should be YOU. Everyone makes mistakes. How tacky of people to draw attention to them. Perhaps you could ask all the perfect people to wait outside until you finish your set. Hmmm, that sounds vaguely familiar.
Jerry

Subject: RE: Help: Remember, Remember?
From: Chris Amos
Date: 20 Jan 02 - 02:05 PM

Hi,

My mother encouraged me to memorise poems by heart when I was young, now when I am learning a new song the first thing I do is learn the words on their own, no guitar or,in the case of long songs no tune. I find it helps a lot and cuts down on the memory lapses in performance.

Regards

Chris

Subject: RE: Help: Remember, Remember?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Jan 02 - 04:11 PM

I just keep singing current songs to my self in all dead time, walking, driving, showering cooking etc.
Still sometimes go blank of course, who doesn't ? I don't use a lyric sheet because I know that when listening to someone using one, I can't connect and empathise with singer and song quite as well.
Best wishes,
Keith.

Subject: RE: Help: Remember, Remember?
From: kendall
Date: 20 Jan 02 - 04:32 PM

Personally, I would feel self conscious using a notebook or crib sheets, but, that's me. God gave me an excellent memory (he/she slighted me in other ways) so I dont need to rely on those. However, if you are among people who look down on you for using notes, then they are there for the wrong reasons.What kind of world would we have if,say,Rick looked down on those who dont play as well as he? This is folk music, we do it for the love of the music, not to put ourselves above others just because we were able to memorize songs! Anal and folk music dont mix.I dont care what your limits are, you are unique, and no one can do what you do, the way you do it. If you love the music and love to share what you have, you are blessed, and so is anyone who is willing to shut up and listen to you.If they are trying to make you do your music their way, then, they are missing something besides manners. I'm ranting, sorry.

Subject: RE: Help: Remember, Remember?
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 20 Jan 02 - 04:42 PM

I have been mischievously called "Boab Forgetthewords"! I have a mate in Northumberland who, having been castigated [big word!] for singing with his eyes closed, swears that when he loses the words, it is because an imaginary tickertape which passes continually before him has broken. Another old pal in the same town carries his famous wee book with him to every session, and uses it too.[Mind you, I sometimes wish Colin would lose those lyrics for "Dicey Riley"!] No shame in using a hand-held "prompt". And, by the way, the "finger in the ear" isn't always a pretentious gimmick; many unaccompanied balladeers and shantymen find that this device allows them to get an "immediate echo" of their own performance, and thus seems to improve both confidence and delivery; not for me though.

Subject: RE: Help: Remember, Remember?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 20 Jan 02 - 05:29 PM

I have a memory like a sieve. For certain things. Unfortunately lyrics are one of those things....now chords are not. I doubt if I've played a wrong chord to a song in twenty years, but I've butchered soooo many lyrics in that time, it drives me to distraction.

I wouldn't worry too much about the "finger in the ear" types Unicorn. Try your best to learn the lyric, but if you need help...use a sheet. It's not like we're Nuclear Physicists or something.

Cheers

P.S. Kendall was one of the very best guitarists I met last year. Why? Because he plays top notch rhythm guitar, his timing is impeccable, and he and the instrument are one. I hate complex playing...simply for it's own sake.

Rick

Subject: RE: Help: Remember, Remember?
From: Snuffy
Date: 20 Jan 02 - 06:39 PM

"This is a great song, and I love it so much I couldn't be arsed to lern the words." Yeah. Right.

WassaiL! V

Subject: RE: Help: Remember, Remember?
From: GUEST,Unicorn
Date: 20 Jan 02 - 07:09 PM

Thank you all so very much. I DO like singing - just wish I could do better. Keith, I do sing in "dead time" but when I forget the words the paper gets a little soggy in the shower!! There are so many wonderful songs around, so many that deserve to be heard. Some have been around for decades, others only a few weeks. It really is uplifting to hear a roomful of people joining in and producing those heart-rending harmonies. It's wonderful to be part of it! Well you've all given me hope to carry on. I'd better get in the shower now!! Thanks again. Regards, Unicorn.

Subject: RE: Help: Remember, Remember?
From: GUEST,Unicorn
Date: 20 Jan 02 - 08:20 PM

Snuffy, I think you may have missed the original point! I didn't say that I WON'T learn the words. On the contrary, I DO LEARN the words (to the best of my capabilities - I'm not getting any younger!) ... but words that come willingly when I'm singing at home or in the car sometimes play 'Hide and Seek' when I'm faced with an audience! Any tips on how to keep them in (metaphorical) sight?

Subject: RE: Help: Remember, Remember?
From: GUEST,alinact
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 09:10 AM

remember John Sebastian at Woodstock?

Allan

Subject: RE: Help: Remember, Remember?
From: Snuffy
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 08:46 PM

Unicorn,

Everyone forgets lyrics from time to time (including me) and I was in no way criticising that. We are all human.

I was pointing out the impression that an audience will get if a performer is obviously reading the words. You should aim to personalise a song - make it somehow "yours". I just think that if anyone is reading the words, then it isn't really personal - and the audience will pick that up.

I think probably the best cure is simply time - keep on keeping on, and eventually you'll get so used to feeling nervous, that you won't feel nervous about it any more. Best of luck.

WassaiL! V

Subject: RE: Help: Remember, Remember?
From: Bill D
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 09:03 PM

you know, people DO 'see' words differently...some actually visualize the page on which the words were printed when they learned them...others 'feel' the basic auditory memories...some can only remember 'story' songs where one verse leads to another......If you can identify the songs you do remeber ok, and ask yourself exactly what is is you are 'seeing' as you sing, maybe you can refine that technique.

I know one well-known Mudcatter who simply sets up a music stand at a concert...and then proceeds to sing wonderfully!...I often need a crib sheet for songs I have not done a lot...(but often, just having the sheet available allows me to relax and sing it)

I saw Norman Kennedy last weekend for 4 hours of singing, and he USUALLY closed his eyes..(so as not to be distracted?)...but he also muffed a few lines on occasion and went thru some arcane process to recover them...

it is just not the same for everyone...

Subject: RE: Help: Remember, Remember?
From: van lingle
Date: 21 Jan 02 - 09:14 PM

I used to use cassette loops to real nail down lyrics. These are short tapes used in cassette players with auto reverse. You record the song you want to learn and it just keeps playing. Sing along while doing the dishes, riding in the car, etc. You will know the lyrics cold but after singing it for the 597th time in one afternoon you may never want to hear it again. VL

Subject: RE: Help: Remember, Remember?
From: GUEST,Joe
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 07:10 AM

I'm a rock singer, I'm 50 (a young 50) but not the memory! Ha...
I lost my left leg due to an Auortic Anurism, plus I believe some of my memory, also sight in my right eye BUT I STILL ROCK BABY!!!
I have an excellent voice and vocal range.
I have three CD's out (2 blues, 1 Progressive Rock)...
I have shared the stage with: Johnny Winter, J. Geils, Robin Trower,
Green Day, Micheal McDonald, Jimmy Vaughan, etc...
I have Three books of lyrics, 1 for each set. Now I know a lot of the songs but I am very nervous about forgetting my lyrics so until I feel comfortable, too bad, If you don't like it, there's the door.
That's how I feel!!!
I'm not constantly glaring down at the books but if I feel a lapse of memory coming I glimpse down at the next line (SO WHAT) are you here to hear good music, or judge me for checking out a line so I don't screw up the songs every now and again...
Keep up the good work and if you're ever in my area come check out the band, you can get up and do your thing if you'd like and hey, bring your words...
Hell, I've watched Billy Joel on stage and he's got a music stand right there on top of his piano!!!
Sweety nobody's perfect and if they think they are Fu*k em!!!

Joe L. C/O

Subject: RE: Help: Remember, Remember?
From: Bernard
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 07:43 AM

If you use a crib sheet to assist your memory, there should be no problem... Harvey Andrews is another example of someone who occasionally uses a cribsheet for his newer songs.

I do have a problem with people who cannot be bothered to learn a song - you can tell, because they have trouble making the words scan, and it spoils the song for everyone. These are the people who bring a big loose leaf folder full of songs, and when their turn comes around they make a big thing about rifling through it to find a song... then do the same one they do every time!

It's a lot different if you've made the effort to learn the song, but your memory lets you down... we've all been there!

I will admit to practising in front of an audience with new material I haven't had time to rehearse - but I'm fortunate that I can get away with it and nobody realises!!

Naah! Do your own thing and ignore the critics!!

Subject: RE: Help: Remember, Remember?
From: Bernard
Date: 24 Oct 07 - 07:52 AM

The original post asked for learning techniques...

One method I use is to record the song, and play it back in the car when I'm driving. It helps if the recording is of you doing it yourself, rather than someone else's version...

Trying to write the words down from memory when you've a spare moment helps, too - especially now we've got computers and don't need to waste paper.

Subject: RE: Help: Remember, Remember?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 25 Oct 07 - 02:57 AM

To the question originally posted:

A "learning technique" advocated by an otherwise incompetent acquaintance many years ago was based on the assumption that you learn, and retain, things better if broken into short - sometimes very short bits. A few things I memorized at the time using his "system" (when I was about nine) are permanently and obnoxiously retained and seem incapable of fading.

You might find it helpful to pick one or two songs and repeat just one verse, or perhaps even just a single line, out loud, sung, spoken, or just silently in your head, until you're very sure that it's "permanently stuck." Then on the second day ... proceed to add another verse or the next line. Resist the temptation to "do the whole thing" until you've added on the little bits, one at a time, in proper sequence.

Quite a lot of recent "memory research" has found that memory is greatly assisted by "sleeping on it" fairly soon after the initial learning, so going over one or two songs, or even just one or two verses, within an hour or so of bedtime, may help. New stuff more than a few hours¹ before sleep seems to be less well recalled than when you get at least an hour or two of sleep within a couple of hours after rehearsing.

¹ One recent study reported a significant drop in recall with 5 to 6 hours delay before sleeping, so something less than that may be better.

Having a few songs that are "solidly embedded" quite likely will give you the chance to perform those songs with less of the nervous tension you mention experiencing, and once you build your "performance experience" a bit you'll likely find that it takes less concentration to add to your list of "well known songs." Getting the first few indelibly known may be the first step toward the performance confidence that may be your real problem of the moment.

Repetition is the key, though. One doubts that Marty Robbins has any problem remembering the words to "El Paso."

John

Subject: RE: Help: Remember, Remember?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Oct 07 - 03:04 AM

I learn songs best by singing them fo an audience. When I sing them to myself, they don't stick. If I sing them to an audience (or, better yet, with a group of friends), the song becomes part of me. I also need an audience to help me make that song my own.

For me, singing is communication more than it is performance. If I have nobody to communicate with, it doesn't have the same effect on me. So, I use songbooks and "cheat sheets" for most songs I sing - until I've sung them with people a good number of times.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Remember, Remember? (recalling lyrics)
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 25 Oct 07 - 03:50 AM

Joe O -

Some people just have that "show off" attitude, and are incapable of properly rehearsing their stuff in private.

Obviously a young whippersnipper like you is part of the "look at me" generation that craves popularity above understanding.

People of your ilk may say they've studied in private but what they've really done is scratched their butt, picked their nose, had a cup - or a pitcher - watched a little TV, while perhaps humming the tune a couple of times between the belches and farts.

But a lot of people use your method fairly successfully.

If I have nobody to communicate with, it doesn't have the same effect on me.?

The explanation for the permanently imbedded cell phones in the ears of the "new generation" - the inability to think of communication in the absence of an immediate audience????

[Just pullin' yer chain, of course. arf.]

John