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BS: Am I Missing Something Here?
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Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here? From: Nigel Parsons Date: 23 Jan 03 - 02:28 PM Refresh |
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Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here? From: GUEST Date: 30 Jan 02 - 04:37 PM P.S. Jim White's encounter with the "bum" in Tompkins Square Park is an exercise in absurdism that Beckett obviously appreciated. Interesting how Beckett chose to write in French. Apparently writng in a language other than his native tongue forced an economy with words on him that he otherwise would not have enjoyed. He said something to that effect in an interview once. And finally, you gotta love a songwirter who can make words like these work extremely well in a song:
Sometimes you throw yourself into the sea of faith Only to have the sharks of doubt devour you. Sometimes you throw yourself into the sea of faith, To find the treasure lost in the shipwreck inside of you. -Jim White, "10 Miles To Go On A Nine Mile Road," No Such Place |
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Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here? From: GUEST Date: 30 Jan 02 - 07:58 AM Figured you'd like that, CarolC. The pleasure was mine. Jim White is definitely worth checking out. And for the ladies, he's not hard to look at either. He was once a runway model in Milan. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here? From: GUEST Date: 29 Jan 02 - 08:19 PM Took you quite a while to even come up with that, didn't it McGrath? My, my--you mui macho men do like to try and keep antagonizing me, doncha? Shall we try a spitting contest next? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 29 Jan 02 - 08:10 PM "attempting to label/categorize people by their ancestry or nationality is nearly always negative. I also know that there are probably no more nationalistic folk who engage in this sort of thing more than the British and British North Americans."
Somehow it seems that there is a slight logical flaw in the juxtaposition of those two sentences.
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Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here? From: GUEST Date: 29 Jan 02 - 07:29 PM Just doing my bit to make the BSers feel loved, Art. They've said repeatedly they don't want me carrying on seriously about music, so here we are. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here? From: artbrooks Date: 29 Jan 02 - 07:22 PM Jerry, I think ANON.GUEST is thread-hopping to make sure he manages to annoy everyone. Maybe its time to put this one to bed. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here? From: CarolC Date: 29 Jan 02 - 07:15 PM ...and on French TV, no less. He strikes me as someone who would understand accordions. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here? From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 29 Jan 02 - 06:42 PM Sheesh!!! Anyone checked the moon recently? It's full over here. But, maybe I shouldn't be discussing that with my English and Welsh friends. I wasn't going to come back to this thread because the original post seemed so off-the wall. What the Hell is going on? I think maybe I'll start a thread that says "I can't Stand Anyone, and I'm not too Fond of myself either." Or perhaps to irritate the SERIOUS folks, I could start a really meaningful thread on "Do Frogs Get Humans caught in their throats when they sing?" Onward... Jerry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here? From: GUEST Date: 29 Jan 02 - 06:36 PM I'll wager you Murray. I'd LOVE to wager you on this one. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here? From: Murray MacLeod Date: 29 Jan 02 - 06:33 PM Not quite sure what *not statistically countable" is supposed to mean, GUEST. Perhaps you are trying to imply that the number is so small as not to be statistically significant. Any Highland Games Committee will know exactly how many people will have gone through the turnstiles for any given event. If anybody were sufficiently motivated to discover the exact number of Americans who attend "Scottish related activities", it would be a relatively simple matter to aggregate the totals for each event, and arrive at a "at least" grand total. Not as many as attend baseball or football matches, for sure, but a not insignificant number nonetheless, I would wager. Murray |
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Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here? From: CarolC Date: 29 Jan 02 - 06:25 PM Wow, GUEST, thanks! Country Zappa perhaps? Gotta love those unseen forces. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here? From: GUEST Date: 29 Jan 02 - 06:03 PM Murray, I'm well aware of the location of Scotland. I am also well aware that the number of Americans who participate in any sort of Scottish related activities, Burns or otherwise, are not statistically countable. And Burns isn't a "universal" poet, he is a nationalist one. |
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Subject: Multiculturalism From: Murray MacLeod Date: 29 Jan 02 - 05:01 PM I only clicked on this thread a few minutes ago and am amazed that my innocuous reminder regarding Burns Day should have stimulated such a lively discussion. GUEST is right insofar as it was irrelevant in the context of the thread in which I had posted. Maybe I should have opened a separate thread (as Giok did later). But surely it was not being insular to draw attention to Robert Burns, that most universal of poets? And lest GUEST should think that the culture of Scotland is limited to a small corner of North Britain, he should be aware that there are well-attended Scottish Games held the length and breadth throughout the United States. I have sung the songs of Robert Burns at several of these events, from New Hampshire to Florida. As M.Ted notes I live in Florida and have heard few more stirring sounds than the massed pipe bands of Miami playing "Guantanamera" .... Murray
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Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here? From: GUEST Date: 29 Jan 02 - 09:15 AM CarolC, As you are a Beckett enthusiast - ...and to add a musical aside (and put in a plug at the same time for an artist whose music would not totally be out of place here or in a Beckett environment) - you might perhaps find this link to this short story by country artist (and the term 'country' is applied here loosely) Jim White rather interesting.... Jim White has two CD's out, "Wrong Eyed Jesus," and his latest, "No Such Place." He's a great lyricist, singer, songwriter, who has had a very interesting life personally and career-wise. http://www.luakabop.com/jim_white/cmp/blessing.html |
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Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here? From: A Wandering Minstrel Date: 29 Jan 02 - 08:58 AM Bill/Sables It is very unkind to remind us exiled Geordies languishing here in the soft south about the gastronomic glories of our homeland. This is precisely one of those inexcusable cultural assumptions Guest is moaning on about! Do you realise how hard it is to get Pease Pudding and Black Bullets this far South! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here? From: M.Ted Date: 28 Jan 02 - 05:30 PM So, guest, you are the multicultural awareness trainer? Murray lives in Florida, so I doubt that there is much you could teach him about interculturalism--but I could use some advice-- After last year, we stopped having the extended family over for Christmas because the Jews couldn't eat ham, the vegetarians wouldn't eat lamb, and the Muslims wouldn't eat at all because it was Ramadan--My question is, do you have any recipes that use leftover crabcakes? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here? From: PeteBoom Date: 28 Jan 02 - 02:55 PM Right. Point made. Next topic. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here? From: GUEST Date: 28 Jan 02 - 08:41 AM Steven, I am not looking to be included, nor am I attempting to dictate how people behave. What I am suggesting is that inter-cultural communication (if it is important to the group), to be done reasonably well, requires people to be self-aware regarding their cultural assumptions and prejudices. Additionally, for there to be effective inter-cultural communication between dominant and marginalized groups, those who make up the dominant group must learn to behave in ways which are different from the way they interact within their own cultural community. That is my point. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here? From: GUEST,Scabby Doug - no cookie again Date: 28 Jan 02 - 08:19 AM Guest, (if you who posted most recently is the same as originally kicked this off). That is one massive chip on your shoulder, isn't it? You have decided that because we don't celebrate your festivals - which you haven't bothered to define for us by the way - or haven't been able to guess what might be of interest to you, we are arrogant and nationalistic (and by the way, there are few poets of any era, or any origin who are as international and egalitarian as Burns was). You seem to want to be included but don't seem to want to be open to other people's interests. Share with us, but don't expect us to know what you want when you haven't told us.. Cheers
Steven |
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Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here? From: GUEST Date: 28 Jan 02 - 07:27 AM Yes McGrath, it is that sort of thing I'm talking about, as well as the presumption that the Anglo/Anglo American and Celtic/Celtic American folk traditions are everyone's traditions, and so anyone who doesn't share a great love of them be damned. I could care less what ethnic background someone is, and think attempting to label/categorize people by their ancestry or nationality is nearly always negative. I also know that there are probably no more nationalistic folk who engage in this sort of thing more than the British and British North Americans. But then, maybe that is why those are the only people who seem to inhabit this place, eh? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here? From: GUEST,Marc B Date: 27 Jan 02 - 07:44 PM sorry about that. Spot the Dog, Not to assume your geographic location Or religious persuasion. But I've always found Mardi Gras a great excuse to drink & eat & be silly even though I live in the Northeast US. And it usually ( although not always) falls in Feb. Marc B |
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Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here? From: GUEST,Marc B Date: 27 Jan 02 - 07:38 PM |
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Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here? From: CarolC Date: 27 Jan 02 - 07:18 PM I agree with you McGrath. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 27 Jan 02 - 07:06 PM Well, it looks as if this thread has had one useful result - a likely gig for bill sables on August 1st. I wish all threads were as productive.
I think the bottom line is it's unwise to assume that everybody knows where we are geographically, still less that talk as if we were all living in the same part of the wolrd. So, for exmple there are times when some programme we've seen on Television is worth commenting on, but it's not really sensible to do that in a way that assumes that we all have the same television schedules.
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Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here? From: katlaughing Date: 27 Jan 02 - 11:02 AM These may be of interest: How ethnically diverse are we? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here? From: bill\sables Date: 27 Jan 02 - 09:40 AM Thanks Willa, I should have thought of Yorkshire Day, My first grandaughter was born on 1st August 2000 just after midnight in York hospital and hit the headlines in all the papers as the First Yorkshire Day baby in the new century. Cheers Bill |
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Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here? From: Willa Date: 27 Jan 02 - 08:43 AM McGrath. In answer to your question: As part of its efforts to preserve the region's Yorkshire heritage, the Yorkshire Ridings Society established 'Yorkshire Day' on August 1st 1975. The idea of a special day called 'Yorkshire Day' was to provide a focus for highlighting Yorkshire pride in the County. August 1st was chosen as it has special significance in the county's history. On August 1st 1759 soldiers, including some from Yorkshire regiments, who had fought in the battle of Minden, in Germany, picked white roses from nearby fields as a tribute to their fallen comrades. Since then a number of Yorkshire regiments wear white roses on August 1st to commemorate the events of that day and heroic deeds of their Yorkshire ancestors. The Yorkshire Ridings Society and others throughout the County continue to celebrate Yorkshire's identity and heritage. Bill: here's another 'Theme night' for you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here? From: GUEST Date: 27 Jan 02 - 08:16 AM Sure, it's no problem being a member of the majority imperial mindset here. Anyone not with us is against us, after all. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here? From: Jeri Date: 26 Jan 02 - 08:43 PM Spot, check the FAQ out - you may need to clean the old cache out. If you're still stuck, try asking in the Help Forum. If I got offended whenever somebody assumed something about me, I'd have to be offended most of the time. Life would not be fun. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here? From: GUEST,Spot the Dog Date: 26 Jan 02 - 08:01 PM ............and I can't get at my personal pages.....Oh crumbs........ Dear Mr Clone, Could you please sort out my cookie and help me to become Spot the Dog again. I hate identity crisis. Many thanks Spot the Dog |
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Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here? From: GUEST,Spot (not Spoy) the Dog Date: 26 Jan 02 - 07:51 PM Help .............my cookie says its reset but I still appear as Guest (spot the Dog)..any answers? Spot. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here? From: GUEST,Spoy the Dog Date: 26 Jan 02 - 07:48 PM I celebrate them all. I have had 15 celebrations this year and it's only January (assuming that you work with the currently accepted international calendar). I tend to celebrate only the ones I can pronounce but I am willing to have a go at any Saint (or other religious deity) day of rememberance. I am truly multicultural when it comes to celebration. My problem at the moment is that my knowledge of religious / non religious / secular etc etc. days is a limiting factor so given that February (assuming that....etc.) is nearly upon us does anyone have anything I can celebrate during this month. (not St Valentine PLEASE.....) Would GUEST please sign in with an annonymous nom-de-plume so I can stop trying to guess who he/she is? Spot the dog |
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Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here? From: Blackcatter Date: 26 Jan 02 - 07:14 PM It seems to me that the Mudcat should have an official calendar - maybe entitled "Events to get pissed/drunk to" We could come up with cultural holidays so that we're never very far away from a "official" chance to raise a glass/bottle/can and play/listen to/butcher some music. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here? From: GUEST Date: 26 Jan 02 - 07:14 PM I always chuckle at assumptions. I am thrilled when people of cultures, beliefs, political stripes find me common enough to assume that I am one of them. I enjoy being invited into celebrations that I normally am not a part of because I am not one of THEM. I realize as I type this that my cookie needs to be reset and my anonymity is seemingly secure. So being invited to a Burns nite dinner and recitation based solely on my manners and apparent interest in cultures other than mine I find flattering in the extreme. I won't get hot if someone assumes I am a Celtish sort anymore than I will be insulted if someone miss guesses my gender. I come into this forum of people I don't know not expecting to be intentionally insulted and hope my pardon is accepted in I should unintentionally insult someone else. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here? From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull Date: 26 Jan 02 - 07:01 PM artbrooks-But surely everbody here is intersted in were Morris is dancing! :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here? From: Paul from Hull Date: 26 Jan 02 - 06:56 PM Can't see that anyone else has answered Kevins question so I will.....I'm a bit surprised that other Brits arent aware of it. Maybe we just arent advertising it enough! *G* Yorkshire Day, aka 'White Rose Day' is August the 1st, Mr McGrath |
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Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here? From: DougR Date: 26 Jan 02 - 06:45 PM Rick: "Beaver Day." I love it! DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here? From: CarolC Date: 26 Jan 02 - 05:41 PM I think there's an important distinction that's being missed here. It looks to me like the complaint is not about whether or not people put forward that with which they are familiar. It looks to me like the complaint is more about the expectation that everyone else should be familiar with those same things, and anyone who isn't is deficient in some way. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here? From: Dave Bryant Date: 26 Jan 02 - 11:03 AM With reference to celebrating St George's day, we (Barleycorn - Ted, Linda, & Myself) had a gig for a pub celebration last year. Also in the past I was involved in running ST GEORGES FOLK FESTIVAL at Cecil Sharp House, London (HQ of The English Folk Dance & Song Soc.) on the nearest weekend to April 23rd. I think, however, that the reason that Burn's Night and Paddy's night get celebrated more in England is that it's a chance for publicans to fill their pubs with ex-pats (and many distant descendants of the same). As to the the question about "Is there a Yorkshire national Day ?" - if you mean do they have a day when they go out and get pissed - yes it starts on Jan 1st and ends on Dec 31st ! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here? From: sledge Date: 26 Jan 02 - 10:19 AM I think it is best if people put forward that which they are familiar with when mentioning celebrations or festivals of whatever ilk. After all, it is the culture in which they were raised, so they should know something about it. So its not too much to assume that they might want to share what they consider good news, whats wrong with that. If someone has heard of an interesting (to them) event then they may ask on the forum for a little more info, nothing wrong with that also, they may find out a great deal or just enough to keep them going in the right direction to find out more. If any body thinks this group is too narrow minded and ignores other cultural issues maybe they should get off their "guesting" arse and post some items of (if only to them) interest. That may then prompt discussion and exploration of that topic leading to wider world views all round, but the guest poster probably wont, so much more fun to flame and sow dissent. It bugs the shit out of me when people critisize things but offer nothing in the way off a remedy. Stuart is guest missing something? probably a bit of decency. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here? From: paddymac Date: 26 Jan 02 - 09:00 AM Thanks to the Mudcat, we were able to toast Burns' Day and Australia Day at our session last night. Unfortunately (or not) we couldn't find any haggis or 'roo burgers, so we settled for a two-fisted salute: a glass of scotch in one hand and a glass of Foster's in the other. It's actually a rather pleasant combination. If I had learned of Rick's favorite holiday earlier, it would assurredly have been included, with a pint of "Canadian Muscle" (Molson's). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here? From: GUEST Date: 26 Jan 02 - 08:42 AM CarolC--yes, thanks for the effort and acknowledgment of people clearly in the minority here. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here? From: SDShad Date: 25 Jan 02 - 10:34 PM Well I, for one, was right glad to be reminded (or just plain minded, since I'd been entirely unawares) that tonight is Burns night. Gave me time to pick up some Scotch (blended--too broke for the good stuff just now)on the way home from work, and sit on the deck watching the sunset, raising one in Rabbie's memory. Sure, I'm interested because of a fair bit of Scots heritage on my own part. But I'd love to hear of the celebrations of ethnic groups not my own, too. Can't imagine wanting such announcements not to appear. Chris |
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Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here? From: PeteBoom Date: 25 Jan 02 - 09:53 PM Right. So the next time any of my bands are involved in celebrations honoring Casmier Pulaski or Tadeusz Kosciuszko, I'll let you know. Beaver Day looks like an absolute blast. I think I'll try and get it recognized here South (well, portions of Michigan are actually NORTH or portions of Canada thanks to a couple of twists in a certain river) of the Border... Regards - Pete
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Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here? From: Rolfyboy6 Date: 25 Jan 02 - 09:00 PM I'm descended from Norweigans and French Canadians and Frisians and.... And hey, I like Burns. And Burns Day is good with me. And all the other Days too. Burns is important to all English speakers because he defended his native dialect against homogenization before that was popular, and because he's a hell of a good poet. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here? From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 25 Jan 02 - 09:00 PM No, I believe that the Moose is the national animal of Sweden. At least that's what the guy said when he sold me a tie with mooses all over it. Jerry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here? From: CarolC Date: 25 Jan 02 - 08:40 PM It's not my intention to get involved in a debate on this subject, partly because I just don't have it in me right now, and partly because some of my favorite Mudcatters are among our friends across the pond. However, I think the opening post to this thread is a good example of the sort of thing the GUEST who started this thread is talking about. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 25 Jan 02 - 08:29 PM Doesn't Yorkshire have a national day? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Am I Missing Something Here? From: bill\sables Date: 25 Jan 02 - 07:58 PM The local pub I attend was asking for ideas for theme nights, They already had a French night and a poachers night and are soon to have a Geordie night. I mentioned an American night on 4th July, Irish night on St. Patricks day and a Scottish night on St. Andrews day or Burns night. Do the Ausies and Canadians have another celibration day around July or August or can anyone give me any other ideas for theme nights from other lands Cheers Bill |