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Broadsides - what would you buy?

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Alice 27 Jan 02 - 03:28 PM
CapriUni 27 Jan 02 - 03:39 PM
Sorcha 27 Jan 02 - 07:36 PM
Alice 27 Jan 02 - 09:04 PM
CapriUni 27 Jan 02 - 10:52 PM
GUEST 28 Jan 02 - 12:00 AM
DonMeixner 28 Jan 02 - 12:05 AM
Deckman 28 Jan 02 - 12:21 AM
Alice 28 Jan 02 - 03:23 PM
GUEST,NERD---Work computer 28 Jan 02 - 03:33 PM
Gareth 28 Jan 02 - 04:10 PM
Stilly River Sage 28 Jan 02 - 04:13 PM
Dave Bryant 28 Jan 02 - 06:27 PM
Alice 29 Jan 02 - 12:41 AM
Alice 29 Jan 02 - 01:03 AM
Steve Parkes 29 Jan 02 - 03:18 AM
Steve Parkes 29 Jan 02 - 06:38 AM
Alice 29 Jan 02 - 09:18 AM
Steve Parkes 29 Jan 02 - 10:45 AM
Dave Bryant 30 Jan 02 - 04:38 AM
Melani 31 Jan 02 - 02:14 AM
GUEST,MCP 01 Feb 02 - 08:37 AM
Nerd 02 Feb 02 - 02:07 AM
Steve Parkes 04 Feb 02 - 03:26 AM
Uncle_DaveO 04 Feb 02 - 09:27 AM
Uncle_DaveO 04 Feb 02 - 09:29 AM
Steve Parkes 05 Feb 02 - 03:18 AM
Uncle_DaveO 05 Feb 02 - 10:47 AM
GUEST,Nigel Jones 09 Feb 12 - 09:21 AM
Alice 09 Feb 12 - 10:56 AM
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Subject: Broadsides - what would you buy?
From: Alice
Date: 27 Jan 02 - 03:28 PM

I've had a project in mind for awhile now to do illustrations of lyrics and print broadsides of folk/trad songs. I've checked into cost estimates from the printer that I work for, and I don't have it in my budget to have them offset litho printed at 11x14 inches. The alternative would be to print legal sized sheets on my desktop printer, on demand as they are ordered, rather than pre-printing and having inventory sitting here in hopes that those songs sell. So, my question is, what songs do you think would be most likely to sell as illustrated broadsides?

If I go through with this, I can put some in the auction.

Thanks.

Alice Flynn


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Subject: RE: Broadsides - what would you buy?
From: CapriUni
Date: 27 Jan 02 - 03:39 PM

Hey there, Alice!

You wrote: "what songs do you think would be most likely to sell as illustrated broadsides?"

Well, I don't know the answer to that generally, but I'd really like traditional comedic songs (with puns, double entendres, etc.), ballads of the supernatural (Tam Lin, Two Magicians, and the like) Riddle songs...

Basically, anything that tells a rousing yarn.


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Subject: RE: Broadsides - what would you buy?
From: Sorcha
Date: 27 Jan 02 - 07:36 PM

On a parchment style paper suitable for framing? I'd buy any of the Child if the price weren't too steep.


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Subject: RE: Broadsides - what would you buy?
From: Alice
Date: 27 Jan 02 - 09:04 PM

Yes, I'm thinking of doing them on an attractive archival paper with archival ink, my own graphic design and illustration, something that would fit trad style music. Child ballads - good idea, Sorcha. Suitable for framing.

Alice


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Subject: RE: Broadsides - what would you buy?
From: CapriUni
Date: 27 Jan 02 - 10:52 PM

You could always start with:

:::Drum roll:::

The Broadside Ballads!
(the originals of course)

Surely, there are "official" scholarly collections of those ballads that are technically called "broadsides"?

Frankly, as much as I like scholarly work, I'd much rather hang an artist's interpretation on my wall...


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Subject: RE: Broadsides - what would you buy?
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Jan 02 - 12:00 AM

I love the idea...good luck with it.


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Subject: RE: Broadsides - what would you buy?
From: DonMeixner
Date: 28 Jan 02 - 12:05 AM

Great notion Alice. Political songs with appropriate editorial art would suit me. Sounds like an exciting project.

Don


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Subject: RE: Broadsides - what would you buy?
From: Deckman
Date: 28 Jan 02 - 12:21 AM

Hi Alice ... Have you seen some original broadside sheets? Are you intending to duplicate the 'original' style, size and print? I have an original broadside from Ireland, circa 1790. It's a very interesting idea, but I am curious as to your research. CHEERS and well wishes, Bob


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Subject: RE: Broadsides - what would you buy?
From: Alice
Date: 28 Jan 02 - 03:23 PM

The Bodleian Library of Broadsides online already has old originals scanned, and prints can be purchased from the Library. My intent is not to do exact reproductions of already existing Broadsides - you can get those from the sources that own them. If I wanted to get more labor/cost intensive, I would have them printed on the old letterpress we have in the back of the print shop... but, my idea is to print the lyrics with an engraving style illustration that I would create, black ink on ph neutral off-white paper (the color is called natural), composed digitally, and I would sign and date the back for each buyer. The font would be appropriate to an old style of printing, and at this point I need to just make a decision on which songs to illustrate. I've even toyed with the idea of also using newer folk songs from the last 200 years or so, such as politcal songs, ballads, instead of being limited to only the old ballads that would have originally been printed as broadsides.

Alice


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Subject: RE: Broadsides - what would you buy?
From: GUEST,NERD---Work computer
Date: 28 Jan 02 - 03:33 PM

I might buy child ballads, and also some of the better broadside ballads, on "new-style" broadsides. Ones that tell good, complete and rousing stories without too much sentimentality.

My mentor and friend Kenny Goldstein was a big collector of original broadsides and used to take me to big paper and ephemera shows where he would buy them. A few times he needed one broadside to fill out his collection. He knew the dealer would try to gouge him on the price, knowing he would pay twice what anyone else would pay since that one broadside was the one that would make his collection complete. So Kenny would send me to try to buy it. The very first time this happened the dealer listened to my request and without missing a beat said "you go tell Goldstein to get his *%$% ass over here himself!"

I bring this up only because I think Kenny would love your idea to create prints of ballads, so the idea reminded me of him.


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Subject: RE: Broadsides - what would you buy?
From: Gareth
Date: 28 Jan 02 - 04:10 PM

What a buetiful idea.

Gareth


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Subject: RE: Broadsides - what would you buy?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Jan 02 - 04:13 PM

Are these going to be limited editions? That always adds interest and value to art. Broadsides have traditional sizes based on the printing presses of the day in which they were printed. Do you have particular dimensions in mind? If the cost of framing can be kept down (frames off the rack, so to speak, instead of paying megabucks more than the art cost to have a custom framer do it) would fit the budgets of many list members.


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Subject: RE: Broadsides - what would you buy?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 28 Jan 02 - 06:27 PM

About 20 years ago a UK artist called John Crane produced some beautiful broadsides/posters of contemporary folksongs. I can remember Bill Caddick's "John of Dreams", Martin Graeber's "Harry the Hawker" and a whole lot of songs by Pete Coe. Try and find some of these to have a look at - I'm sure they'll give you some ideas.


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Subject: RE: Broadsides - what would you buy?
From: Alice
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 12:41 AM

Thanks, Dave.


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Subject: RE: Broadsides - what would you buy?
From: Alice
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 01:03 AM

Although I am a singer, my degree is in Fine Art - major media, painting and print making. Traditionally, prints are each an original, not a reproduction. The image in the plate, silk screen, block, or stone used to be destroyed at the end of an edition, so buyers of the prints would know that no more would be printed. Today, there are people selling what they call "prints" - actually reproductions of a painting, a digital file, or some other piece. Since I will be doing these as reproductions of a digital file, I won't be collating them into a numbered edition - but I will sign each one.

Alice


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Subject: RE: Broadsides - what would you buy?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 03:18 AM

I've got John Crane's "John o'Dreams" on my desk! It turned up the other day (as things do--we've just just moved house) and I brought it in to note down the tune for Julie B.

I love illustrations (as distinct from "art", which I also love!) and I don't think you can have too much or too many: any song, story, book, joke or cereal packet deserves one (or several). Who do I make the cheque out to?

Steve


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Subject: What would you give away?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 06:38 AM

Question: how many Mudcatters can illustrate songs? What if those of us who feel inclined produce an illustrated song of our own choice and make it available for general viewing or downloading by anyone who wishes?

I'm suggesting this in addition to the sale of "proper" work BTW; I'm not proposing to steal any artists' or illustrators' works by "liberating" them on the Net!

Steve


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Subject: RE: Broadsides - what would you buy?
From: Alice
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 09:18 AM

Steve, I searched for the John Crane you refer to, and nothing came up on the internet. Is there a gallery/book/source/website you can refer me to? It's intriguing to see what he did.

Alice


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Subject: RE: Broadsides - what would you buy?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 29 Jan 02 - 10:45 AM

Alice, there doesn't seem to be anything of the kind! I'me surprised, not to say disappointed. If it helps, his style is (was?) similar to Will Heath Robinson's (qv) black and white work. In fact, I just had a brainwave and found this: here's one of his illustrations, but greatly reduced and not actually in black and white.

Steve


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Subject: RE: Broadsides - what would you buy?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 30 Jan 02 - 04:38 AM

John Crane also produced some wonderful designs for Cambridge Folk Festival Posters and Programs. John has a lovely way of entwining the artwork around the songs. In the broadside of "Harry the Hawker" all the wares mentioned in the song are displayed as a sort of cornucopia. I'll see if I can find you a better example of his artwork.


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Subject: RE: Broadsides - what would you buy?
From: Melani
Date: 31 Jan 02 - 02:14 AM

Sounds great! I like traditional Celtic and British, myself--Tam Lin is a great suggestion. What price range are we talking about?


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Subject: RE: Broadsides - what would you buy?
From: GUEST,MCP
Date: 01 Feb 02 - 08:37 AM

Alice

I've got the chapbook John Crane did for Bill Caddick's King Sun and also the cover he did for Bill Caddick's Rough Music LP. I could scan these in for you if you're interested.

Mick


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Subject: RE: Broadsides - what would you buy?
From: Nerd
Date: 02 Feb 02 - 02:07 AM

Alice, another idea for an illustrator to look at: Anne Malcolmson did a collection of Robin Hood Ballads for children, illustrated by Virginia Lee Burton. Burton used a combination of pen and ink and scratchboard (!) to create really detailed and pretty black and white pictures. The book was called Song of Robin Hood.

BTW, Robin Hood Ballads would be ones people might buy as well (well, I might!)


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Subject: RE: Broadsides - what would you buy?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 03:26 AM

Nerd, scraperboard (as they call it where I caome from) is a perfectly respectable medium! You can buy it ready-made, or do your B&W on card with indian ink: fill out the scrapy bits and let it harden off for 24 hours, then go to it with your scraper tool to get those striking 2hite-on-black effects. Not for the faint-hearted: if you make a mistake it takes anopther 24 hours to correct!

Steve


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Subject: RE: Broadsides - what would you buy?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 09:27 AM

Steve Parkes:

What you refer to as "scraperboard" was "scratchboard" when I was in art school in Minnesota, 1948-1952.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: Broadsides - what would you buy?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 09:29 AM

If you could get around copyright issues, there would be wonderful possibilities in most of the Tom Lehrer songs!

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: Broadsides - what would you buy?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 05 Feb 02 - 03:18 AM

Ah--two nations separated by a common language!

The wonderful thing about Tom Lehrer's songs is the surreal images you conjour up in your head--the same thing that makes the pictures better on the radio than on the tv. If you illustrate them with real pictures, they need to be of the same high standard, or else they should suggest rather than reveal.

Steve (IMHO!)


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Subject: RE: Broadsides - what would you buy?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 05 Feb 02 - 10:47 AM

You are right, of course!

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: Broadsides - what would you buy?
From: GUEST,Nigel Jones
Date: 09 Feb 12 - 09:21 AM

Alice,
Re John Crane - I had the priviledge to know John quite well during the early/mid 1970's, and I remember him as a rare and very special man, and an exceptionally talented artist.
I have the full set of his superb original broadside ballad collection (I believe there are 25 in total), together with a couple of his small chapbooks, 'Twa Sisters' and 'King Sun'. He also published one of my songs ('Hawkie Chapman') in his 2nd series of broadside ballads.
I will forward my contact details to your website so you can talk to me directly if you would like to see some scanned images of John's work.


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Subject: RE: Broadsides - what would you buy?
From: Alice
Date: 09 Feb 12 - 10:56 AM

Sorry, Nigel, the email address you sent me bounced back as undeliverable. This is the message I tried to send you, and I don't know if you have a mudcat name here for a personal message, so I am posting it here.

-----
Nigel,
I received your email and could not for the life of me remember
anything about why
you would write to me about broadsides or the name John Crane. I had
a job related incident causing memory loss 2 years ago, and
memory loss from injury and stress before that, so I was surprised
when I searched mudcat on "John Crane" and found a thread I'd written
about illustrating
broadsides.

I have absolutely no memory of writing the thread 10 years ago, and
just a vague memory of having an idea about a project of illustrated
broadsides. I did not have the funds to go forward with the idea back
in 2002, and after two years of unemployment now, I'm in even more
dire financial straits.

I don't think I ever could find the illustrations of John Crane
online. I certainly don't want to
put you out of any time or trouble to scan and send them. I'd be
happy to see his work, but
I don't want it to be a bother to you.

Thank you so much for contacting me!

All the best, Alice


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