BS: Should Boxing be Banned?

Subject: Should Boxing be Banned?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 03 Feb 02 - 11:34 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Should Boxing be Banned?
From: JedMarum
Date: 03 Feb 02 - 11:34 PM

Should banning be boxed?

Subject: RE: BS: Should Boxing be Banned?
From: JedMarum
Date: 03 Feb 02 - 11:35 PM

;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Should Boxing be Banned?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 03 Feb 02 - 11:36 PM

Weell that must be the quickest reply ever!

Subject: RE: BS: Should Boxing be Banned?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 03 Feb 02 - 11:38 PM

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Should Boxing be Banned?
From: DonMeixner
Date: 03 Feb 02 - 11:57 PM

Then what would people do on Boxing Day?

Subject: RE: BS: Should Boxing be Banned?
From: JedMarum
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 12:01 AM

LMAO!!

Subject: RE: BS: Should Boxing be Banned?
From: GUEST,DonMeixner
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 12:03 AM

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Should Boxing be Banned?
From: Sorcha
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 12:22 AM

No more popping crackers? ;)
See---"pop" as in shoot to kill and "cracker" as racist redneck----puns intended. Let's just ban Tyson instead. Stupid biter. (I'm gonna get flamed for this one.......)

Subject: RE: BS: Should Boxing be Banned?
From: Crazy Eddie
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 12:54 AM

Professional Boxing?
Amateur Boxing?
Kick-boxing?
Thai Boxing?
Bare-knuckle Boxing?

What about full-contact karate?

Wrestling? ( which kinds)?
Judo?

Subject: RE: BS: Should Boxing be Banned?
From: khandu
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 01:02 AM

Dear Sorcha has beaten me to it. Ban Tyson. Put him away somewhere where he can either get professional help or have the carnivourous (Sp?), and rapist demons cast outta him.

khandu

Subject: RE: BS: Should Boxing be Banned?
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 02:15 AM

Well khandu, we could have Billie Joe bag him and give him a heave off that bridge..............

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Should Boxing be Banned?
From: GUEST,Fredrick
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 05:12 AM

Well I'll try and make a sensible post.

I detest boxing, but my liberal instincts suggest that if people want to do it, then who am I to stop them. After all, they're only harming themselves.

Yes, there is the arguement that they're harming others by portraying hitting people as being good, but I'm not convinced of that.

My solution would not be to ban boxing, but to ban it's promotion.

Banning it would force it underground, with the subsequent lack of medical checks etc. Not a good idea.

Banning the promotion of it would rob the sport of money, take away the glamour, and basically kill it. All without anyone being hurt.

Fred

Subject: RE: BS: Should Boxing be Banned?
From: bill\sables
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 08:35 AM

Tyson should be made to fight Prince Charles, Prince of Wales. Have you sen the size of Charlie's ears. He would probably be KO'd while he was still having his lunch.
Bill

Subject: RE: BS: Should Boxing be Banned?
From: Ringer
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 08:38 AM

No.

Subject: RE: BS: Should Boxing be Banned?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 08:47 AM

Yes, it is barbaric....in all of it's forms

Subject: RE: BS: Should Boxing be Banned?
From: Midchuck
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 08:48 AM

I'm with Guest Fred. Regardless of the brutality, exploitation of poverty, etc., all of which are true, if you ban it, it just goes underground, and all of those problems are that much worse because you give up what control you do have. You also lose all that tax revenue to the mob.

This is just what happened in the US in the '20s with Prohibition, and finally everyone had to admit it's a bad idea. It's also what's happening now with drug prohibition, but no one in power will admit it yet.

All of the above personal opinion, of course (not "humble.")

Peter.

Subject: RE: BS: Should Boxing be Banned?
From: kendall
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 09:07 AM

It would be more effective to ban testosterone.

Subject: RE: BS: Should Boxing be Banned?
From: Ringer
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 09:17 AM

Yeh, kendall, I'm all for that. Might grow some hair again!

Subject: RE: BS: Should Boxing be Banned?
From: RoyH (Burl)
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 09:53 AM

I am a great fan of boxing and was an amateur boxer and boxing coach in younger days. But I am also a folk music fan and I have to ask - What is this thread doing here? What has it to do with music?

Subject: RE: BS: Should Boxing be Banned?
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 10:15 AM

Perhaps not "truly" folk yet, but Pete Seeger has recorded the first one anyway.................


WHO KILLED DAVEY MOORE
Bob Dylan

Who killed Davey Moore,
Why an' what's the reason for?

"Not I," says the referee,
"Don't point your finger at me.
I could've stopped it in the eighth
An' maybe kept him from his fate,
But the crowd would've booed, I'm sure,
At not gettin' their money's worth.
It's too bad he had to go,
But there was a pressure on me too, you know.
It wasn't me that made him fall.
No, you can't blame me at all."

Who killed Davey Moore,
Why an' what's the reason for?

"Not us," says the angry crowd,
Whose screams filled the arena loud.
"It's too bad he died that night
But we just like to see a fight.
We didn't mean for him t' meet his death,
We just meant to see some sweat,
There ain't nothing wrong in that.
It wasn't us that made him fall.
No, you can't blame us at all."

Who killed Davey Moore,
Why an' what's the reason for?

"Not me," says his manager,
Puffing on a big cigar.
"It's hard to say, it's hard to tell,
I always thought that he was well.
It's too bad for his wife an' kids he's dead,
But if he was sick, he should've said.
It wasn't me that made him fall.
No, you can't blame me at all."

Who killed Davey Moore,
Why an' what's the reason for?

"Not me," says the gambling man,
With his ticket stub still in his hand.
"It wasn't me that knocked him down,
My hands never touched him none.
I didn't commit no ugly sin,
Anyway, I put money on him to win.
It wasn't me that made him fall.
No, you can't blame me at all."

Who killed Davey Moore,
Why an' what's the reason for?

"Not me," says the boxing writer,
Pounding print on his old typewriter,
Sayin', "Boxing ain't to blame,
There's just as much danger in a football game."
Sayin', "Fist fighting is here to stay,
It's just the old American way.
It wasn't me that made him fall.
No, you can't blame me at all."

Who killed Davey Moore,
Why an' what's the reason for?

"Not me," says the man whose fists
Laid him low in a cloud of mist,
Who came here from Cuba's door
Where boxing ain't allowed no more.
"I hit him, yes, it's true,
But that's what I am paid to do.
Don't say 'murder,' don't say 'kill.'
It was destiny, it was God's will."

Who killed Davey Moore,
Why an' what's the reason for?

OR PERHAPS:

HURRICANE
Bob Dylan

Pistol shots ring out in the barroom night
Enter Patty Valentine from the upper hall.
She sees the bartender in a pool of blood,
Cries out, "My God, they killed them all!"
Here comes the story of the Hurricane,
The man the authorities came to blame
For somethin' that he never done.
Put in a prison cell, but one time he could-a been
The champion of the world.

Three bodies lyin' there does Patty see
And another man named Bello, movin' around mysteriously.
"I didn't do it," he says, and he throws up his hands
"I was only robbin' the register, I hope you understand.
I saw them leavin'," he says, and he stops
"One of us had better call up the cops."
And so Patty calls the cops
And they arrive on the scene with their red lights flashin'
In the hot New Jersey night.

Meanwhile, far away in another part of town
Rubin Carter and a couple of friends are drivin' around.
Number one contender for the middleweight crown
Had no idea what kinda shit was about to go down
When a cop pulled him over to the side of the road
Just like the time before and the time before that.
In Paterson that's just the way things go.
If you're black you might as well not show up on the street
'Less you wanna draw the heat.

Alfred Bello had a partner and he had a rap for the cops.
Him and Arthur Dexter Bradley were just out prowlin' around
He said, "I saw two men runnin' out, they looked like middleweights
They jumped into a white car with out-of-state plates."
And Miss Patty Valentine just nodded her head.
Cop said, "Wait a minute, boys, this one's not dead"
So they took him to the infirmary
And though this man could hardly see
They told him that he could identify the guilty men.

Four in the mornin' and they haul Rubin in,
Take him to the hospital and they bring him upstairs.
The wounded man looks up through his one dyin' eye
Says, "Wha'd you bring him in here for? He ain't the guy!"
Yes, here's the story of the Hurricane,
The man the authorities came to blame
For somethin' that he never done.
Put in a prison cell, but one time he could-a been
The champion of the world.

Four months later, the ghettos are in flame,
Rubin's in South America, fightin' for his name
While Arthur Dexter Bradley's still in the robbery game
And the cops are puttin' the screws to him, lookin' for somebody to blame.
"Remember that murder that happened in a bar?"
"Remember you said you saw the getaway car?"
"You think you'd like to play ball with the law?"
"Think it might-a been that fighter that you saw runnin' that night?"
"Don't forget that you are white."

Arthur Dexter Bradley said, "I'm really not sure."
Cops said, "A poor boy like you could use a break
We got you for the motel job and we're talkin' to your friend Bello
Now you don't wanta have to go back to jail, be a nice fellow.
You'll be doin' society a favor.
That sonofabitch is brave and gettin' braver.
We want to put his ass in stir
We want to pin this triple murder on him
He ain't no Gentleman Jim."

Rubin could take a man out with just one punch
But he never did like to talk about it all that much.
It's my work, he'd say, and I do it for pay
And when it's over I'd just as soon go on my way
Up to some paradise
Where the trout streams flow and the air is nice
And ride a horse along a trail.
But then they took him to the jail house
Where they try to turn a man into a mouse.

All of Rubin's cards were marked in advance
The trial was a pig-circus, he never had a chance.
The judge made Rubin's witnesses drunkards from the slums
To the white folks who watched he was a revolutionary bum
And to the black folks he was just a crazy nigger.
No one doubted that he pulled the trigger.
And though they could not produce the gun,
The D.A. said he was the one who did the deed
And the all-white jury agreed.

Rubin Carter was falsely tried.
The crime was murder "one," guess who testified?
Bello and Bradley and they both baldly lied
And the newspapers, they all went along for the ride.
How can the life of such a man
Be in the palm of some fool's hand?
To see him obviously framed
Couldn't help but make me feel ashamed to live in a land
Where justice is a game.

Now all the criminals in their coats and their ties
Are free to drink martinis and watch the sun rise
While Rubin sits like Buddha in a ten-foot cell
An innocent man in a living hell.
That's the story of the Hurricane,
But it won't be over till they clear his name
And give him back the time he's done.
Put in a prison cell, but one time he could-a been
The champion of the world.


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Should Boxing be Banned?
From: RoyH (Burl)
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 11:45 AM

Or perhaps 'Morrisey & The Russian Sailor', 'Bold Bendigo', 'Heenan & Sayers','Les Darcy', 'The Turpin - Sugar Ray Fight'. The folk have had no problems with celebrating boxing.

Subject: RE: BS: Should Boxing be Banned?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 11:58 AM

Of course it shouldn't be banned.

Furthermore, all legislation making duelling illegal should be repealed, along with laws making the wearing of seat-belts compulsory.

Long live freedom of choice.

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Should Boxing be Banned?
From: PaulM
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 12:09 PM

Burl,

By that arguement, we should reintroduce cock fighting

Yes?

Paul

Subject: RE: BS: Should Boxing be Banned?
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 12:11 PM

Well, look at it this way: in ancient Rome, gladiators used to wear a sort of boxing glove, called a cestus, made by binding their hands with strips of leather studded with iron or lead, with which they pounded each other into a bloody pulp while multitudes of fans screamed their delight. In modern times, boxers wear padded gloves with which they pound each other into a bloody pulp while multitudes of fans scream their delight.

We've come a long way in two-thousand years.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Should Boxing be Banned?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 12:19 PM

Hi Burl. I live with the major dichotomy of being a wimpy liberal folksinger who is fascinated by boxing. Once won a LOT of bucks in a bar room boxing trivia contest where the winner had to name ALL the official Heavyweight Champions. I just waited until the experts had named all BUT ONE (it was a semi-trick question), and the questioner was starting to collect his money. I named the "missing" champion (from the stage where I was playing), won the money, and on the basis of that became friends with "Peter the Cabby" who couldn't me more different than me if he tried.

Answer: Marvin Hart.

Did ya ever meet "Oor Henry"?

Rick

Subject: RE: BS: Should Boxing be Banned?
From: RichM
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 12:41 PM

Boxing should NOT be banned; but gloves, mouthguards, and any other protective gear used in the sport, should be.
Let them really do some injury to each other. Might put them in the running for the Darwin awards.

Subject: RE: BS: Should Boxing be Banned?
From: kendall
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 12:41 PM

Boys will be boys.

Subject: RE: BS: Should Boxing be Banned?
From: Midchuck
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 12:56 PM

I like the idea of going back to bare-knuckles. I can't believe that hitting someone in the skull, full strength, with the bare knuckles wouldn't be more painful to the hittor than the hittee. Might prevent some brain damage.

Peter.

Subject: RE: BS: Should Boxing be Banned?
From: annamill
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 01:06 PM

I enjoy boxing. Not because it's violent or bloody, but because of the skill envolved. It wasn't until Casius Clay (Ali), that I really understood the level that the skill could reach. He was barely touched when he fought. This was before the stupid rope-a-dope stuff. Man has long loved the challenge of endurance levels that man (or woman) could stand and conquer. All sorts of sports are violent and taxing to the human body as well as inhumane to animals. Football (great game yesterday incidently) for instance. What's meaner than beating a horse or a dog over the finish line? Having dogs pulling sleds over long miles only for the amusement of humans? Let's ban soccer, La Crosse, hockey(now that's violent), roller derbys, etc. Every Saturday or Sunday, across our nation, you can find six year old boys and girls out there competing in these very sports....and enjoying it too.

Nah! That's who we are. Why pick on boxing?

Love, and gentle, Annamill

Subject: RE: BS: Should Boxing be Banned?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 01:17 PM

I'll fight ya fer a caravan

Subject: RE: BS: Should Boxing be Banned?
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 01:23 PM

Anna dear, I tend to agree. The biggest problem with boxing is the same one it has always had and that is the sleazy image which the sport has built for itself through everything from promoters to gamblers to dive artists and financial exploitation of champions (and others). The violence in and of itself is often far less than that in many other "respectable" sports, but it has only attained a position less than a half a step above cockfighting for very brief times in it's history.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Should Boxing be Banned?
From: annamill
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 01:25 PM

..and what about running marathons??? What's tougher to a human being than 26 grueling miles of constant assault to the body. I think we should ban marathons! Now that's mean and violent!

Love, Annamill

Subject: RE: BS: Should Boxing be Banned?
From: annamill
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 01:31 PM

"through everything from promoters to gamblers to dive artists and financial exploitation of champions (and others). "

'spaw, doesn't every sport have these problems?

Love, Annamill

Subject: RE: BS: Should Boxing be Banned?
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 01:46 PM

Anna, I like boxing too, but I don't think any sport has the same problems over so long a time and to such a degree. In many sports there are scandals and such, but boxing is a continuous one. Bert Sugar the boxing writer has written on it at length, everybody has done investigations, including Congress, but the continual sleaze and scandal image continues and is perpetuated by many within boxing.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Should Boxing be Banned?
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 02:00 PM

In my opinion, boxing is the truest form of sport on earth. It pits one atheletes skills and conditioning against anothers. There are no team mates to rely on, very rarely is the outcome decided by a bad call by a referee. I come from a long line of boxers. I also played hockey at a very high level and lacrosse at a rep level as well as being active in amny other sports. Boxing is the most strenuous sport that I have ever tried.

Has professional baxing become more of a freak show than ever? Yes. Mike Tyson should be in jail. He was on probation when he bit Holyfield's ear. If he'd done that on the street he would have been back in. It's a shame that under Don King boxing has almost sunk to the level of the WWF.

Subject: RE: BS: Should Boxing be Banned?
From: RoyH (Burl)
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 02:05 PM

Paul M.touche, a nice one. But I was making an observation, not an argument. Merely that the presence of songs about fights and fighters shows that they were heroes to the general public, as, I believe they still are. I'm fully aware of the futility of trying to defend boxing against the ban brigade. Boxing IS indefensible, you either approve or you don't. I don't much like the world of boxing business, it's sleazy and exploitative. But I have great respect for the skill and courage of the fighters themselves. Rick, yes, I have met Our Henry, and several other well-known ex-pro's. I am friendly with Barry McGuigan, former world champion,a lucid and eloquent worker for better, safer, conditions for all boxers. I did a radio programme with him about Bendigo, the bare-knuckle champion. Bendigo came from my home town. The statue of a lion built over his grave is now so weatherbeaten as to be unrecogniseable. BTW, I too could have answered the question about Marvin Hart.

Subject: RE: BS: Should Boxing be Banned?
From: fat B****rd
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 02:32 PM

HEY !! Rick Fielding. Marvin Hart. Not many people know that. I'm impressed but not surprised. All the best from the fB. PS Did you know that more fighters have died as a result of boxing since padded gloves became compulsory ??

Subject: RE: BS: Should Boxing be Banned?
From: kendall
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 07:51 PM

All sports are dangerous, but, boxing is the only one in which the whole idea is to disable your opponent. George Forman admitted that when he got into the ring with Mahammed Ali, that he wanted to kill him.Forman was one of the three hardest hitters in the history of boxing, and, if not for Ali's skill in avoiding getting hit, he would now be in Palookaville. It's barbaric, crooked and indefensible in a civilized world.I used to be a rabid boxing fan, but, no more.

Subject: RE: BS: Should Boxing be Banned?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 08:26 PM

"It's barbaric, crooked and indefensible in a civilized world"

Who says we live in a civilized world? Who says we want to???

Ya don't like it, don't support it... But don't be so arrogant as to think that just because YOU don't like something that no one else should be able to...

Hell, I hate the idea of soccer, and if I RAN the world, I'd ban it in a heart beat... but I don't... so I can't... When I'm with people who DO like soccer, I leave them to it, and keep my nose out of their business...

Subject: RE: BS: Should Boxing be Banned?
From: khandu
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 09:15 PM

" In the clearing stands a boxer and a fighter by his trade and he carrys a reminder of every glove that laid him out and cut him til he cried out in his anger and his shame, 'I am leaving, I am leaving', but the fighter still remains"

Paul Simon (according to my memory!)

khandu

Subject: RE: BS: Should Boxing be Banned?
From: kendall
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 09:20 PM

Clinton H. I stated an opinion; a right under our Bill of rights. You may disagree, but, who the hell are you to call me arrogant?

Subject: RE: BS: Should Boxing be Banned?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 09:23 PM

Who's Bill Of Rights???? I don't have a bill of rights... I'm not American...

And that wasn't quite directed just at you Kendall... I know that you were just expressing opinion... Some people on the other hand think that their opinion should matter to anyone else... THEY are the arrogant ones!

With you I was more just funnin' about the civilized comment...

Sorry if I raised yer hackles eh!

;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Should Boxing be Banned?
From: kendall
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 09:45 PM

You have the right to your opinion on this forum C.H. but, if you want to express the opinion that I'm arrogant, that's ok.(Well, sorta) Dammit man, now I gotta do some soul searching to see if I am arrogant! (We Yanks are good at finding fault with ourselves) Thanks for coming back as you did.

Subject: RE: BS: Should Boxing be Banned?
From: kendall
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 10:07 PM

C.H. just proved the old adage, "A soft answer turneth away wrath,"

Subject: RE: BS: Should Boxing be Banned?
From: Peg
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 10:09 PM

Maybe in the old days there was honor and grace in this sport...but as in so many things it has gone down the toilet. Blame the fans, blame the promoters, but its day as a noble sport of grace and agility has passed.

And Tyson is a monster who should have been in jail a LONG time ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Should Boxing be Banned?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 10:47 PM

My old shrink told me that I was a combination of insecurity and arrogance. I said "I'LL be the judge of that!...if it's OK with you"! Thank Christ he laughed. "You really are a solid gold wise-ass aren't you"? was his final comment.

Gawd I love that guy!

Funny thing, but I can watch two guys pummel each other for fifteen rounds, but a story about a mistreated animal would make me leave the room. Not just a "likes animals better than people" thing either. Last week I watched a program on the Roman Colliseum, and they talked about feeding people to hungry animals (even said that they smeared blood on the poor wretches to attract the animals). I literally felt sick to my stomache...and felt a hatred of people for the next two days. Geez, no wonder I went to a shrink! Ha Ha!

Rick

Subject: RE: BS: Should Boxing be Banned?
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 10:49 PM

He was in jail a long time ago, but the fools let him out.

And Kendall, Ali didn't avoid all the punches from Foreman and others. More's the pity......He was the best that boxing had for many years and a great ambassador of and for the world. I can barely look at him now without crying...........and for my money, he's still the finest thing the sport ever gave us.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Should Boxing be Banned?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 10:53 PM

Ya know spaw... I don't care how old or frail Ali ever gets, I'd NEVER take a poke at him... He'd still pound me into the ground like a tent peg!

What does the song say about No god and precious few hero's? We'll he's one of the precious few...

Subject: RE: BS: Should Boxing be Banned?
From: kendall
Date: 05 Feb 02 - 08:21 AM

Mahammed Ali is probably the only man in the world who could go anywhere in the world, and be welcome. Rick, I feel the same way as you; the thing is; those two men pounding the crap out of each other have a choice. They know better; the mis treated animal doesn't. It was on the news the other day, this idiot in a fit of road rage, grabbed a woman's little dog and threw it into traffic. It was hit and killed by an oncoming car. He got three years behind bars. I cheered. Has the title "animal" been mis-placed?