Thoughts on 'The Blue-tail Fly'

Subject: Thoughts on 'The Blue-tail Fly'
From: GUEST,Sheila
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 10:32 AM

An Afro-American recently suggested to me the "The Blue-tail Fly" is offensive. With the obvious word in the chorus, is it politically incorrect to sing this song? I'd appreciate your thoughts. Sheila

Subject: RE: Thoughts on 'The Blue-tail Fly'
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 10:43 AM

Here are a few previous threads:

Click

Click Again

Spaw

Subject: RE: Thoughts on 'The Blue-tail Fly'
From: Mark Clark
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 10:54 AM

The song depicts a slave—a house servant at that—bowing and scraping and bemoaning the passing of “massa.” On the surface, this would seem to be an offensive use of a discredited stereotype.

We've had several threads discussing this song. In one of them, Jimmy Crack Corn and I Don't Care, Pete Peterson provides an interesting take on the meaning of the song. You can find other references using the search string “blue-tailed or bluetail or "crack corn"” in the super-search box.

I've always believed, as Pete suggests, that the song tells of how a slave found a sly way to “Off the pig!” as they say. Still, if it isn't seen in that context by the listener, it could easily offend.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: Thoughts on 'The Blue-tail Fly'
From: GUEST,Butch at work
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 11:22 AM

It is in fact offensive to many people. In the original version the story is about a slave whose jobs it is to brush flies away from his master. HOWEVER, it is also a well documented fact that this song found it's way into slave culture and was enjoyed by slaves due in part to the death of the master and the glee of the slave over his new found position in life ( and freedom for the hated task).

Part of political correctness should not be solely to aviod issues that might offend, but rather to educate the offended. You will not convert all who are offended but you might educate someone in the effort.

To remove "The Blue Tail Fly" from you songlist would be to do two ill advised things: 1) You will loose the chance to play a song that was enjoyed by slaves and therefore (although written by norhtern whites) was a real part of slave culture. 2) You will pass up the chance to use the song as an axample of a shared musical tradition that could be used to bring balck and white audiences to a better understanding of how music is passed from one culture to another.

Some may be offended, others will be educated. I think that in light of the good that can come from this, better to play it than ignore it.

Subject: RE: Thoughts on 'The Blue-tail Fly'
From: RoyH (Burl)
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 11:37 AM

Big Bill Broonzy sang it. Presumably it didn't bother him.

Subject: RE: Thoughts on 'The Blue-tail Fly'
From: GUEST,Desdemona at work
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 12:09 PM

I agree with Butch at work; it's very upsetting to imagine a world where everything potentially offensive was expunged from the public record, musical, historical or otherwise. By learning (& hearing) about the way things USED to be, we aren't advocating a former state of affairs, but by refusing to even look at them we may well lose the opportunity to learn from them, becoming wiser and more genuinely tolerant, as opposed to simply being superficially frightened of giving offense.

Subject: RE: Thoughts on 'The Blue-tail Fly'
From: Mrrzy
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 12:52 PM

"The folks who sing them have no social conscience - why, they don't even care if Jimmy crack corn!" - Tom Lehrer, in The Folk Song Army

Subject: RE: Thoughts on 'The Blue-tail Fly'
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 01:21 PM

More mature viewpoints and an acceptance of the past as a part of our (both black and white) heritage are increasingly found. Hand-wringers would expunge many of the Negro folk songs which tell us of black society and feelings from the time of slavery up to the Second World War; they must not prevail.
The Blue Tail Fly, although from the minstrel tradition, was well-appreciated by blacks for its wry, understated humor.

Subject: RE: Thoughts on 'The Blue-tail Fly'
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 01:33 PM

Lyrics published in 1846 and comments on other versions are in thread 40458 Lyr Add: (De) Blue Tail Fly:
Blue Tail Fly

Subject: RE: Thoughts on 'The Blue-tail Fly'
From: GUEST,Janice in NJ
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 10:29 PM

Slave kills master, then concocts story and beats the rap. "He died and the jury wondered why; the verdict was the blue tail fly." Gimme enough cracked corn and I wouldn't care either!

Subject: RE: Thoughts on 'The Blue-tail Fly'
From: GUEST,Sheila
Date: 06 Feb 02 - 12:39 PM

Thanks one and all. I never dreamed the question had arisen in the past. You've given me a lot of background information, and I'm grateful. Sheila

Subject: RE: Thoughts on 'The Blue-tail Fly'
From: rube1
Date: 06 Feb 02 - 01:29 PM

Abner Jay, the last of the old time minstrels, has a great version on Smithsonian "Blues Routes." To interpret this song without irony is an error, and that could be offensive, or worse, boring.

Subject: RE: Thoughts on 'The Blue-tail Fly'
From: GUEST,Souter
Date: 06 Feb 02 - 07:16 PM

I always thought that maybe that's not what happened, that maybe he did the guy in himself, and blamed it on the blue tail fly.

Subject: RE: Thoughts on 'The Blue-tail Fly'
From: DougR
Date: 06 Feb 02 - 08:19 PM

I wonder if anyone has ever considered the fact that the blue tail fly might have been offended too, because he got all the blame. You want to keep offending blue tail flies? :>)

I think the whole thing is ridiculous myself. The song was sung, it is history, folks should learn to live with it.

DougR

Subject: RE: Thoughts on 'The Blue-tail Fly'
From: GUEST,Janice in NJ
Date: 06 Feb 02 - 08:43 PM

Get Big Bill Broonzy's recording of "The Blue Tail Fly," then decide. He wasn't any Burl Ives.

Subject: RE: Thoughts on 'The Blue-tail Fly'
From: DougR
Date: 06 Feb 02 - 10:47 PM

Which means, Guest, Janice in NJ?

DougR

Subject: RE: Thoughts on 'The Blue-tail Fly'
From: Kaleea
Date: 07 Feb 02 - 02:19 AM

The "traditional" music of America tells a story, some is good and some is downright ghastly. Nevertheless, it is our story. We cannot agonize over the lyrics a few decades or a couple hundred years after the song has been written. We can, however, learn our story from these songs,for there is much to learn, and hopefully, learn our lesson & work toward peace instead of hatred. There was a time that there were signs in stores which read literally : No Irish Need Apply!. I am half Irish, and this does not stop me from learning from songs which refer to this. On the contrary, I can ascertain a great deal of historical information of America's past, and what my ancestors went through for me to have a better life than did they. We must learn to understand the lyrics & the music in the context in which it was written in order for us to nderstand the song!

Subject: RE: Thoughts on 'The Blue-tail Fly'
From: DougR
Date: 07 Feb 02 - 01:29 PM

Well said, Kaleea. One must take into account the socialogical changes that have taken place since songs of this type were written. It may not be perfect now, but it is so much better. DougR

Subject: RE: Thoughts on 'The Blue-tail Fly'
From: GUEST,Chicken Charlie
Date: 07 Feb 02 - 06:41 PM

At the risk of presuming to speak for someone else, here's how I take the "BBB was no Burl Ives" comment. Ives' version of BTF substitutes the word 'boss' for the "offensive" rendering "massah," etc. He did the same thing when he transformed "Little Log Cabin Down the Lane" (about an old freedman wasting away on the plantation) into "Little Log Cabin on the Plain," a totally sanitized spin-off. In my opinion he was being overly cautious. But then, I'm in the "it's history, do it as it was done" school. B.I. was not. [Fremantle to Longstreet: "Different dreams. Very sad. Different dreams."]

CC

Subject: RE: Thoughts on 'The Blue-tail Fly'
From: DougR
Date: 08 Feb 02 - 12:26 AM

Well, CC, I'm sympathetic to your viewpoint. Burl Ives recorded this song before PC was PC, so I don't know why he substituted the words that might be considered un-PC, but maybe he, his manager, or the record producer was just clarivoint.

Frankly, the whole PC thing, where it comes to history seems a lot of BS to me anyway. If it happened, tell it the way it was. That is not endorsing anything.

DougR

Subject: RE: Thoughts on 'The Blue-tail Fly'
From:
Date: 02 Feb 03 - 08:01 PM

You cannot change history you can only hope to learn from its lessons
to alter something sung for hundreds of years in various versions even
according to the singer of the moment for whatever the reason is to
make it into a lie.Mark Twain wrote a moving account of a young white
lad with a fugitive black "nigger jim" slave needing and aiding then
respecting one another as humans beyond their skin colors which there in that time was a break through in the horrors of the institute of
slavery of another race for all the reasons that were given about the
human beings kept in bondage being lesser and so on---to change the
name and the shame that Huck soon realize that was attached to it
which he had never thought on before loses the meaning in the end.
I speak from experience in a way-being born in segregation in South
and mostly living in rural area I never actually saw blacks made to
step off the curb for a white child even to pass or to step to the
back of the bus and stand even with empty seats open in front---I saw it daily at times yet I did not see it---I could see but I was blind
until I had an awakening on personal level and then I saw thankfully I was still small child and it was a lesson learned which I have never
forgotten...Don't change literature or ballads-TEACH THEM for what they are and what they stand for-not what you think they should have been and should have stood for---That is another BIG LIE of society
for me Be Proud the black voices rose to tell the stories in song and to speak of freedom from oppression in song and to let everyone know
the Truths in song...The master had died mysteriously in the field
and instead of a black man hanging it was laid on the back of the
blue tail fly---and the slaves rejoice the whole happening has been
to their benefit for a change---

Subject: RE: Thoughts on 'The Blue-tail Fly'
From: Gurney
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 04:13 AM

Like most people I learned some history at school, but I've learned a lot more from interest raised by listening to folk music. Not dates, but stories. Revisionism won't change the stories, and I'll bet there are songs and stories that could be found offensive by the thin-skinned of any gender, race, nationality, or religion.
Maybe everyone should do what jewish comedians do, and make jokes about prejudice. Or make history illegal.

Subject: RE: Thoughts on 'The Blue-tail Fly'
From: Rapparee
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 06:52 AM

My family does historical reenactment, demonstrating the art of distilling in an 1830s context. Or rather, we used to do so...the woman in charge of it at the State Park where we did it told us that the still was incorrect. Yes, it was, being a worm still, but we couldn't afford to have made a correct pot still. She said that our clothing was incorrect -- no, it wasn't. She said that the caplock rifle we brought was not "period" and I nailed her on that.

And then we asked HER some questions: why was a "log cabin" quilt on the bed when it was supposed to be the 1830s and there is no documentation for this pattern before 1848? (Ah....) Why did they remove the tobacco from the shed? (We didn't want to send the wrong message to the children.) Why didn't they allow a depiction of the very well documented local rowdies anymore? (Well, they were rowdy.) Why did all of the women have to carry covered baskets when they walked down the street? (Because we want to portray them as being busy.) Why aren't there any outhouses in this reconstructed village? (Don't be offensive!!!!!!!) Can we portray honey-dippers next year -- they're documented? (NO!!!!! Stop being offensive!!!)

The village in question here is "Lincoln's New Salem" outside of Springfield, Illinois. History is history, we told her, and your desires won't change the reputation of the Cleary's Grove Boys or the honey dippers who plying their trade, or the fact that whiskey was made in New Salem.

We weren't PC. We don't do that demo anymore. Their loss, but more importantly, a loss to the public.

History is often offensive. Sing the songs, not to be offensive, but to teach.

Subject: RE: Thoughts on 'The Blue-tail Fly'
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 11:04 AM

When Ives fiest recorded Blue Tail Fly, he sang "Massa's gone away" I don't know when he recorded it without that word.

One of the pathetic sights is that of someone viewing songs and stories of the past through the distorting glass of today's sensibilities.

Subject: RE: Thoughts on 'The Blue-tail Fly'
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 03 Feb 03 - 01:32 PM

Rapaire, the people at Salem Village are just as guilty of supressing and re-writing history as the authoritarian bureaucrats of Soviet Russia and Maoist China. Sanity will return some day.

People often ask here how people could have tolerated subjection of Negroes. They were taught to regard Negroes as inferior, in school and in their scholarly references. Read the essay on Negro in the Encyclopaedia Britannica, 11th edition of about 1910- long after slavery ended- and all of the stereotypical remarks about substandard Negro intelligence, belligerence when crossed, and minor musical talent are there and stated as fact. (The 11th edition is still read because of the superior quality of its essays)

Subject: RE: Thoughts on 'The Blue-tail Fly'
From:
Date: 26 Mar 03 - 05:36 PM

I've also felt that this was a song about a slave slyly getting rid of their master. "He died and jury wondered why" is telling.

And how about the very last two lines:

"Beneath this rock I'm forced to lie
The victim of the blue-tail fly."

Has this person also died--or are they lying in the sense of not telling the truth about what really happened to their master? I admit that notion's a stretch though.

Remember also that Bugs Bunny sings this song in one of his "pitchers"...

Subject: RE: Thoughts on 'The Blue-tail Fly'
From: Fiolar
Date: 27 Mar 03 - 08:45 AM

I sometimes think that political correctness has been taken a bit too far. Many of the folk and traditional songs can no longer be sung because they are sure to offend someone's sensibilites. Even certain books and nursery rhymes have now joined the list of unsuitable items which can no longer be read or recited. While having no wish to condone racist abuse in any way shape or form, I sometimes feel that a whole heritage has been sacrificed on the altar of PC.

Subject: RE: Thoughts on 'The Blue-tail Fly'
From:
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 01:39 PM

I'm inclined to agree with jlBaker: "The master had died mysteriously in the field and instead of a black man hanging it was laid on the back of the blue tail fly---and the slaves rejoice the whole happening has been to their benefit for a change."

Irony and comedy are the major modes of this song. In the first stanza, the narrator's remembrance of passing his master "the bottle when he got dry" is followed almost immediately by the refrain. If you imagine this being performed by a group minstrel act, it's impossible to imagine the refrain not being sung by all parts. By sheer proximity, and with master's participation, at least one way to construe "gone away" is in reference to his drunken state.

In this construction, "Jimmy crack corn and I don't care" is the attitude of the master more than the servant when the first refrain is sung. But by the last stanzas, the speaker's attitude, though couched in the same terms, refers to master being dead and gone.

The refrain is therefore transformed from an ironic foreshadowing, the first it's sung, to rejoicing, even though the words remain the same throughout.

Subject: RE: Thoughts on 'The Blue-tail Fly'
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 02:07 PM

Of course the words change! Of course they do ... it's the essential element of folk music. It's the way the passage of time tracks itself. The progress -- or regress -- of attitudes is evident in those changes sometimes much more truly than in the sentiments expressed in the rhetoric of the lyrics.

Subject: RE: Thoughts on 'The Blue-tail Fly'
From: Fiolar
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 08:14 AM

Bugs Bunny sings a great version in the cartoon "Lumber Jack Rabbit.":-)

Subject: RE: Thoughts on 'The Blue-tail Fly'
From: GUEST,NP
Date: 31 May 03 - 05:27 PM

Anyone who tries to claim "Blue Tail Fly" is subversive or progressive is missing the point. The subject of the song is a slave who becomes lazy after his master dies, allowing gimcrack (poor quality) corn to grow and not caring. This plays into all sorts of 'Sambo' stereotypes of lazy slaves. The slave never expresses a desire to see his master die-- he is just too incompetent to protect him from a little fly. This song, fun as it may be, has no progressive political quality to it.