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Origins: Down to Pomona/Lamorna Song

Related threads:
Lyr Req: Down in Albert Square (25)
WEt Wet Wet and Lamorna/Pomona? (5)


Baz 15 Mar 98 - 06:44 PM
Bert 16 Mar 98 - 03:47 PM
Snuffy 17 Feb 02 - 01:40 PM
Susanne (skw) 17 Feb 02 - 04:36 PM
Herga Kitty 17 Feb 02 - 06:20 PM
vectis 17 Feb 02 - 07:08 PM
Dave Bryant 19 Feb 02 - 03:22 AM
Dave Bryant 20 Feb 02 - 06:37 AM
GUEST,Kernow John 20 Feb 02 - 03:24 PM
MMario 20 Feb 02 - 03:29 PM
greg stephens 13 Aug 07 - 08:22 AM
Flash Company 13 Aug 07 - 10:18 AM
greg stephens 14 Aug 07 - 02:58 AM
IanC 14 Aug 07 - 03:41 AM
The PA 14 Aug 07 - 05:57 AM
Flash Company 14 Aug 07 - 09:46 AM
The PA 14 Aug 07 - 10:37 AM
greg stephens 14 Aug 07 - 12:04 PM
greg stephens 23 Aug 07 - 03:32 PM
GUEST,cockneybanjo 22 Feb 12 - 02:22 AM
Snuffy 22 Feb 12 - 03:32 AM
Musket 22 Feb 12 - 04:53 AM
GUEST,J. Barnes 25 Jan 17 - 11:53 AM
GUEST,Jim I 25 Jan 17 - 03:49 PM
FreddyHeadey 25 Jan 17 - 08:45 PM
FreddyHeadey 26 Jan 17 - 07:13 AM
Joe Offer 27 Jan 17 - 01:28 PM
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Subject: Lyr/Tune Add: LAMORNA
From: Baz
Date: 15 Mar 98 - 06:44 PM

This song enjoys considerable popularity in Cornwall at the moment and it is with some trepidation that I post it.
As Merve Davey says in his book most Cornish singers will have a 'correct' version which will differ from this one and from each other.
The Cornish words were provided in in1980 by Ken George of Torpoint. I have been unable to trace any origins for the song and it seems unlikely to be very old. However, the folk in this part of the world have embraced the song, possibly because Lamorna is a small coastal village at the other end of the bay from my home village.

LAMORNA

So now I'll sing to you
It's about a maiden fair,
I met the other evening
At the corner of the square;
She had a dark and roving eye
And her hair was covered over,
We rowed all night
In the pale moonlight
Way down to Lamorna.

(Refrain)
T'was down in Albert Square
I never shall forget,
Her eyes they shone like diamonds
And the evening it was wet, wet, wet;
And her hair hung down in curls
Her face was covered over,
We rowed all night
In the pale moonlight
Way down to Lamorna.

As we got in the cab
I asked her for her name,
And when she gave it me
Well with mine it was the same;
So I lifted up her veil
For her face was covered over;
To my surprise
It was my wife
I took down to Lamorna.

She said I know you know
I knew you all along,
I knew you in the dark;
For I did it for a lark;
And for that lark you'll pay
For the taking of your donna,
You'll pay the fare
I do declare
Way down to Lamorna.

MIDI file: lamorna.mid

Timebase: 480

Tempo: 145 (413793 microsec/crotchet)
Key: G
TimeSig: 4/4 48 8
Name: LAMORNA
Text: S:Merve Davey, Henegan
Start
0000 1 74 127 0479 0 74 000 0001 1 71 127 0479 0 71 000 0001 1 74 090 0479 0 74 000 0001 1 76 120 0479 0 76 000 0001 1 74 090 0479 0 74 000 0001 1 67 127 1439 0 67 000 0001 1 74 090 0239 0 74 000 0001 1 74 090 0239 0 74 000 0001 1 71 127 0479 0 71 000 0001 1 74 090 0479 0 74 000 0001 1 79 120 0479 0 79 000 0001 1 74 090 0479 0 74 000 0001 1 76 127 1439 0 76 000 0001 1 76 090 0479 0 76 000 0001 1 76 127 0479 0 76 000 0001 1 69 090 0479 0 69 000 0001 1 69 120 0479 0 69 000 0001 1 71 090 0479 0 71 000 0001 1 72 127 0479 0 72 000 0001 1 72 090 0479 0 72 000 0001 1 78 120 0719 0 78 000 0001 1 78 090 0239 0 78 000 0001 1 76 127 0479 0 76 000 0001 1 74 090 0479 0 74 000 0001 1 73 120 0479 0 73 000 0001 1 76 090 0479 0 76 000 0001 1 74 127 1439 0 74 000 0001 1 74 090 0239 0 74 000 0001 1 74 090 0239 0 74 000 0001 1 71 127 0479 0 71 000 0001 1 74 090 0479 0 74 000 0001 1 76 120 0479 0 76 000 0001 1 74 090 0479 0 74 000 0001 1 67 127 1439 0 67 000 0001 1 74 090 0239 0 74 000 0001 1 74 090 0239 0 74 000 0001 1 71 127 0479 0 71 000 0001 1 74 090 0479 0 74 000 0001 1 79 120 0479 0 79 000 0001 1 74 090 0479 0 74 000 0001 1 78 127 0479 0 78 000 0001 1 76 090 0959 0 76 000 0001 1 76 090 0479 0 76 000 0001 1 76 127 0479 0 76 000 0001 1 74 090 0479 0 74 000 0001 1 78 120 0719 0 78 000 0001 1 76 090 0239 0 76 000 0001 1 76 127 0479 0 76 000 0001 1 74 090 0479 0 74 000 0001 1 78 120 0719 0 78 000 0001 1 76 090 0239 0 76 000 0001 1 74 127 0479 0 74 000 0001 1 73 090 0479 0 73 000 0001 1 72 120 0479 0 72 000 0001 1 66 090 0479 0 66 000 0001 1 69 127 0479 0 69 000 0001 1 67 090 0959 0 67 000
End

This program is worth the effort of learning it.

To download the January 15 MIDItext 98 software and get instructions on how to use it click here

ABC format:

X:1
T:LAMORNA
M:4/4
Q:1/4=145
K:G
S: Merve Davey, Henegan d2B2d2e2|d2G6|ddB2d2g2|d2e6|e2e2A2A2|B2c2c2f2|
-ffe2d2^c2|e2d6|ddB2d2e2|d2G6|ddB2d2g2|d2f2e4|
e2e2d2f2|-fee2d2f2|-fed2^c2c2|F2A2G4||


Y canaf lemmyn dheugh
Yn kever mowes tek,
Y'n plen y fetys gensy
Hag yth en-vy hep ow gwrek;
Deulagas tewl dhedhy
Ha hudol hy ow quandra,
Dres oll an nos
Y whren ny mos
Alenna dhe Lamorna

(Penpusorn)
Plen Albert o an le.
Ankevy byth ny wraf
Deulagas ow terlentry
Ha'n gorthewer glyp yn Haf, Haf, Haf
Oll crullyes o hy blew
Ha hudol hy ow quandra,
Dres oll an nos
Y whren ny mos
Alenna dhe Lamorna.

Dervyn hy Hanow hy
A Wruk pan eth y'n car,
Pa'n ros hy dhymmo vy
O dhe'm hanow 'th o an par;
Trehevys vy hy vayl
Hy thremyn kel re bya,
Marth genef o,
Ow gwrek ytho,
A worren dhe Lamorna.

Yn meth hy 'My a wor,
Dha aswon ny a wruk,
Yn tewl my a'th aswonys,
Mes avel prat my a'n gwruk;
Raghenna ty a be,
Rak don dhe ves dha dhona;
An gober pe
A wreth, re'm fay,
Alenna dhe Lamorna.

Agas Dyw gans mos hwi
BAZ


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Subject: RE: LYR + TUNE add LAMORNA
From: Bert
Date: 16 Mar 98 - 03:47 PM

I have always thought it to be a most improbable story but the tune is so good that I sing it now and then.

The version I have is from The Yetties and in it they "rode all night" and he was "taking of his donah".

Donah being a Cockney expression meaning girlfriend (or wife). I always wondered where Lamorna was. It would certainly be a long drive from London in a horse drawn cab, and would have taken several days.

Which brings up the question, Where is Albert Square? would it be in some west country city like Bristol. Or would that also be too far away?

I have always assumed that it was a music hall song that was written towards the end of the 19th. Century. Which would account for how the London slang could travel to Cornwall.


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Subject: RE: LYR + TUNE add LAMORNA
From: Snuffy
Date: 17 Feb 02 - 01:40 PM

I thought it was Bristol when I first heard it, but according to the Yetties, the song could well refer to Manchester.

Pomona Docks are at the end of the Manchester Ship Canal (opened in the 1890s), and Albert Square is in Manchester city centre. This would make it just over 100 years old at the most.

Incidentally, the Yetties have "She was a charming rover" instead of "Her hair/face was covered over" in Verse 1 and chorus, but retain "Her face was covered over" in Verse 2.

WassaiL! V


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Subject: RE: LYR + TUNE add LAMORNA
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 17 Feb 02 - 04:36 PM

The Spinners also recorded it ('All Day Singing', 1977). Their succinct - and possibly erroneous - info is 'From Cornwall'. It does sound more like a music hall song. Could it be from the London music hall about a Manchester couple?


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Subject: RE: LYR + TUNE add LAMORNA
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 17 Feb 02 - 06:20 PM

Refresh for Llanfranc


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Subject: RE: LYR + TUNE add LAMORNA
From: vectis
Date: 17 Feb 02 - 07:08 PM

I was always told that "they rode all night" came from the habit of couples hiring a cab with curtained windows so that the two could "be alone" for several hours if necessary. Women (possibly married) would disguise themselves with a veil so that they would not be recognised by their aquaintances while they picked up a young stud for the evening. Likewise men would be able to hire a woman from the anonimity of a dark, curtained interior.
Albert Square is supposed to be in Penzance.
I originally thought that the couple rowed (a boat) but the coast is so rugged that it would not have been possible to have courted in this manner.
Hope this answers your questions


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Subject: RE: LYR + TUNE add LAMORNA
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 19 Feb 02 - 03:22 AM

Lamorna Cove is about 6 miles south west of Penzance - just round the coast from Mousehole (of Tom Bawcock and Starry Gazey Pie fame). I think that puts the song firmly in the Penzance area.

Mevyn Vincent always sang very similiar words to the Yetties version - perhaps someone should ask the Yetties where they got their version - they have a website somewhere.


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Subject: MidiText Link
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 06:37 AM

BAZ, your MidiText link fails. Have you or anyone else got a working one.


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Subject: RE: LYR + TUNE add LAMORNA
From: GUEST,Kernow John
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 03:24 PM

Dave
You are right the link no longer works, sorry.
If you pm I'll email you a midi or gif file of the dots.<>br> KJ


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Subject: RE: LYR + TUNE add LAMORNA
From: MMario
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 03:29 PM

current miditxt link is http://miditext.8m.net


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Subject: Pomona/Lamorna Song
From: greg stephens
Date: 13 Aug 07 - 08:22 AM

I have looked in some other threads on this and related topics, and googled a bit, but haven't found exactly what I am looking for. The song "Away down to Lamorna" is generally reckoned to be a Cornish remake of a Manchester song about the pleasure gardens at Pomona(pre-Ship Canal Pomona Dock days). What I haven't found is a reference to the lyrics and/or tune of the original Manc version, can anybody help? I have seen it somewhere on the internet, and possibly in a Mudcat thread, but so far I haven't tracked it down again.


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Subject: RE: Pomona/Lamorna Song
From: Flash Company
Date: 13 Aug 07 - 10:18 AM

Never came across this, Greg, but it would explain something. As a near Mancunian with Cornish interests, I have always been puzzled by the opening line:-
'Twas down in Albert Square, I never will forget....

There aint an Albert Square in Lamorna, but there sure is in Manchester!

FC


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Subject: RE: Pomona/Lamorna Song
From: greg stephens
Date: 14 Aug 07 - 02:58 AM

I am absolutely sure this was originally a Mancunian song...but the more nationalist Lamorna fans do point out there is an Albert Square in nearby Penzance! But seriously, the song makes no sense at all in a Lamorna context, anmd every possible sense in thew context of a Mancunian lad taking a lady of easy virtue down to the Pomona pleasure gardens by the Irwell in a carriage.
And words and sheet music exist for the Manchester version, I have been told, but I can't find them.


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Subject: RE: Pomona/Lamorna Song
From: IanC
Date: 14 Aug 07 - 03:41 AM

Greg

I think This Thread has what you're looking for.

The lyrics are here.

:-)


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Subject: RE: Pomona/Lamorna Song
From: The PA
Date: 14 Aug 07 - 05:57 AM

I always thought the story went that he met her in Albert Square and then they travelled to Lamorna, so it doesnt matter that there is not an Albert Square in Lamorna. The Albert Square in question, could be anywhere I suppose, especially as they rode all night, through the pale moon light! Possibly from Albert Square in Manchester, to Lamorna in Cornwall. There, now everybody's happy.


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Subject: RE: Pomona/Lamorna Song
From: Flash Company
Date: 14 Aug 07 - 09:46 AM

As a regular traveller from Manchester to Cornwall, It is now such a complicated journey that, if your interest was in a frolic with a lady you met in Albert Square, Manchester, you would have lost the urge long before you got there!

FC


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Subject: RE: Pomona/Lamorna Song
From: The PA
Date: 14 Aug 07 - 10:37 AM

That figures, it turned out to be the wife, didn't it?


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Subject: RE: Pomona/Lamorna Song
From: greg stephens
Date: 14 Aug 07 - 12:04 PM

IanC: many thanks for the link, that is just what I was looking for. Now, to complete the jigsay, ar there any Mancunian versions of the tune, pre-dating any Cornish versions?


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Subject: Lyr Add: DOWN TO POMONA / AWAY DOWN TO LAMORNA
From: greg stephens
Date: 23 Aug 07 - 03:32 PM

Just to make this thread complete, here are the original Manchester lyics that IanC referred to in a previous post.
DOWN TO POMONA

Now I'm going to sing,
A nice young lady fair,
I met some time ago,
At the corner of Albert Square.
She had a lovely jet black eye,
I thought I should like to own her,
For in a voice so sweet she asked of me
The way down to Pomona.

We met in Albert Square,
And I never shall forget,
Her eyes they shone like stars,
Thought the evening it was wet.
The hair it hung in curls.
Of this lovely little Donah,
As we drove that night in great delight,
Away down to Pomona.

My heart beat like a drum,
As I answered her with pride,
Yes, and if you have no objections,
I will take you there beside.
She blushed and answered yes,
The I fell in love all over,
For a cab I sent and off we went,
Away down to Pomona.

We'd scarce got in the cab,
When she asked me for my name,
I gave it to her then,
And asked of her the same.
When she lifted up the fall,
Which her face had covered over,
Upon my life she was my wife,
I was taking down to Pomona.

She said sir you know me now,
that we're not in the dark,
I said, yes love, before now,
But I thought I would have a lark,
Then for your larking you shall pay,
And forgetting your lovely Donah,
You shall have it to say, you had to pay,
For your wife into Pomona.

Interesting to see what time and a transplantion to Cornwall have done: here is a fairly standard Cornish pub type version.

AWAY DOWN TO LAMORNA

A song I'll sing to you, about a maiden fair,
I met the other evening at the corner of the square.
She'd a dark and roving eye, she was a charming rover,
We rode all night,in the pale moonlight
away down to Lamorna

Chorus
Twas down in Albert square
I never shall forget,
Her eyes they shone like diamonds
and the evening it was wet, wet, wet.
Her hair hung down in curls,
she was a charming rover,
And we rode all night,
through the pale moonlight,
away down to Lamorna

As we got in the cab, I asked her for her name,
And when she gave it to to me, well, mine it was the same,
So I lifted up her veil, for her face was covered over,
Upon my life it was my wife,
I took down to Lamorna
Chorus

She said, I know you now, I knew you all along,
I knew you in the dark, but I did it for a lark,
And for that lark you'll pay, for the taking of the donah:
You'll pay the fare, for I declare,
away down to Lamorna
Chorus


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Subject: RE: LYR + TUNE add LAMORNA
From: GUEST,cockneybanjo
Date: 22 Feb 12 - 02:22 AM

I learnt this song as a pub song when I was a student at Camborne school of Mines in the 1970s. I suspect the "Yetties" version is probably mainly responsible for its resurgence in popularity, the lyrics do vary considerably although the story is the same.

It's a good song, though.


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Subject: RE: Lyr/tune ADD: Lamorna
From: Snuffy
Date: 22 Feb 12 - 03:32 AM

Here's a copy of the 19th century broadside a the Bodleian Library in Oxford, where the song is set firmly in Manchester and the Pomona pleasure gardens. It also contains an extra verse not usually sung nowadays.

And more information here on Mudcat in Thread 55861


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Subject: RE: Lyr/tune ADD: Lamorna
From: Musket
Date: 22 Feb 12 - 04:53 AM

I always sing it as per the Pomona Palace dance hall that was just off Albert Square at Pomona docks, now part of Salford Quays. Whether that is the origin or whether some words were just about near enough to make it about Pomona, I don't know, but that's how I introduce it.

Thinking on, I first heard The Two Beggarmen introduce it as that, although my first recollection of the song was the late Tom Brown used to sing it regularly at The Boundary in Worksop many years ago. (Old Tom possibly introduced it as first hearing it at his mother's knee, as per every song he did, bless him.)


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pomona/Lamorna Song
From: GUEST,J. Barnes
Date: 25 Jan 17 - 11:53 AM

Hi,
I was just looking around about this song " A way down to Lamorna. This was written by my Great great Grandfather Thomas Matthews who lived in St Buryan Cornwall. I have a letter from the BBC who wanted to record my Grandfather and his brothers to record it. Nothing ever happened as my Grandfather died and my Gran didn't want to bother at the time.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Pomona/Lamorna Song
From: GUEST,Jim I
Date: 25 Jan 17 - 03:49 PM

What a coincidence! I had never heard of this song until this afternoon when Bob Tryer sang it at our afternoon session in the White Star Liverpool. And now it pops up on Mudcat this evening


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Subject: RE: Lyr/tune ADD: Lamorna
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 25 Jan 17 - 08:45 PM

more info following the Manchester references above


"Pomona Gardens was a public pleasure grounds.
The gardens were originally known as the Cornbrook Strawberry Gardens.
They were in existence before the mid-19th-century and occupied a site close to the Bridgewater Canal next to Chester Road at Cornbrook.
The grounds were purchased and developed by James Reilly in 1868 and included many attractions such as a ballroom and agricultural halls. The gardens were closed in the 1880s as a result of the land being acquired for the extension of the docks.
Reilly was eventually paid £70,352 in compensation for the twenty one acre site.

Location information:
Address: Off Cornbrook Road, Old Trafford, M5 3FT
Locality: Trafford, Greater Manchester
Local Authorities:
Greater Manchester; Trafford
Historical County: Lancashire
OS Landranger Map Sheet Number:        109        Grid Ref:        SJ820969
Latitude:        53.4685        Longitude:        -2.27262
Key information:
Form of site: garden
Context or principal building: maritime
Site first created: Before 1868
Main period of development: Early 19th century
Survival: Lost
Site Size (Hectares): 2"

"   History
Site timeline
1880 to 1889: The gardens were closed in the 1880s as a result of the land being acquired for the extension of the docks.
Record created:        22/01/2009 "

Map etc:
http://www.parksandgardens.org/places-and-people/site/6477


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Subject: RE: Lyr/tune ADD: Lamorna
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 26 Jan 17 - 07:13 AM

Other threads(including this one):

Lyr Req: Pomona/Lamorna Song 
thread.cfm?threadid=104003 

Lyr/tune ADD: Lamorna 
thread.cfm?threadid=4387 

Lyr Req: Down in Albert Square 
thread.cfm?threadid=55861 

WEt Wet Wet and Lamorna/Pomona? 
thread.cfm?threadid=73133 

Posts on another thread
thread.cfm?threadid=4211#43378 

    Threads combined or crosslinked above. -Joe Offer, Mudcat Music Editor-


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Subject: RE: Lyr/tune ADD: Lamorna
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 Jan 17 - 01:28 PM

Thread #4211   Message #43381
Posted By: Bert
27-Oct-98 - 10:21 AM
Thread Name: Lyr/Tune Add: Helston Hal an Tow
Subject: Lyr Add: WAY DOWN TO LAMORNA

From memory...

Chorus.
'Twas down in Albert Square, I never shall forget,
Her eyes they shone like diamonds and the evening it was wet, wet, wet.
Her hair hung down in curls she was a charming rover
we rode all night in the pale moonlight, a way down to Lamorna.

When she got in the cab, I asked her for her name
and when she gave it me, well mine it was the same
I lifted up her veil for her face was covered over
to my surprise it was my wife I took down to Lamorna

Chorus.

She said I know you now, I knew you all along
I knew you in the dark and I did it for a lark
and for that lark you'll pay for the taking of your Donah
You'll pay the fare for riding there, a way to Lamorna.

Chorus.


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