Travis Picking - Misconceptions

Subject: RE: Travis Picking - Misconceptions
From: tandrink
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 10:23 AM

Now someone please correct me if I am wrong, but technically, the difference between a blues and a ragtime not only has to do with the "feel" of a piece but also it's length and structure. A blues is typically 8, 12 or 16 bars. A ragtime has no such structural restrictions.

I know someone is going to say that a blues can be any length, but I've been told, technically (and I emphasize technically) that in order to be considered a blues piece it must adhere to measures I mentioned above.

Maybe a musical scholar could clarify if this is really the case.

Subject: RE: Travis Picking - Misconceptions
From: C-flat
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 11:51 AM

I've tried to describe picking techniques on many occasions but it always seems terribly "dry" in black and white.Full marks to Justa picker on an excellent posting.My only contribution is to say that whilst the style described in JP's post is not a pattern as such, you must develop the thumb patterns over different shapes before you can start dropping in other strings.These other notes can be quite random but are strictly syncopated around a fixed thumb pattern.Right hand memory is the key and can take a long time to develop.Great pickers don't even think about patterns,after years of playing, their patterns evolve around the notes they want to hear.Most of them probably couldn't tell you exactly what they were playing and a lot of them wouldn't play it the same way twice! I wouldn't want to discourage anyone from learning to fingerpick but try to bear in mind that there's only so much you can learn in the written form, once you've established a couple of patterns use your ears.All the notes you want are there in the chord shapes,give or take,and there's no rules governing technique. These old pickers developed their style by doing what felt most comfortable to them.

Subject: RE: Travis Picking - Misconceptions
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 12:05 PM

Well, as fir the technical stuff, Professor Rolfy will come along and clean up that mess. But as fir the pickin. I started out with the alternating thumb, index finger picking and added the middle finger and ring finger as I developed. When I started playing blues a couple of years ago, I got a video of the Delta bluesman, Son House, who uses a version of the Travis pick with his palm making contact with the bass strings while playing a National steel guitar. It has taken some work because of the more rigid technique I learned 30 some years ago of using the pinky finger as a stabilizer where Son House used his picking hand a cross between strumming and picking, much like a brush or broom, but in each sweep the palm would mute the bass strings. When I first saw the video, I thought this would be real easy but found it to be difficult because of the angle at which the fingers, (not thumb) had to find the right place to land in the back stroke. Kindof like trying to land an airplane on a moving boat, I guess. This takes some practice, indeed, but is real cool the first time you get it right...

Subject: RE: Travis Picking - Misconceptions
From: Mark Clark
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 12:07 PM

I found this definition for ragtime at the Rag-Time.Com site and another definition at The Center for Black Music Research. Neither of the definitions mentions any chord progressions but they seem to make it clear that blues is not ragtime and that ragtime is a rather complex musical form.

Still, a lot of the ragtime tunes that come to mind seem to include a I VI II V progression or circle of fifths somewhere in the piece.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: Travis Picking - Misconceptions
From: M.Ted
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 04:26 PM

Son House, Merle Travis, Blind Blake--three *very* different kinds of fingerpicking for three different styles of music--One is Delta Blues, one is Ragtime, and only one is Travis picking--all are syncopated, all have a strident bass, but the sound different, and the picking mechanism is different--Do you want to know how they are different? Learn to play in each style, then compare ;-)

Subject: RE: Travis Picking - Misconceptions
From: RocketMan
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 08:37 PM

Wow, great thread. I spend 99.9% of my time here lurking, but this is enough to draw me out. I have only a basic command of fingerpicking, but when I read threads like this, I can go back to tunes I've listened to a hundred times and hear something different in the music. Thanks folks.

RMan

Subject: RE: Travis Picking - Misconceptions
From: marty D
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 11:16 PM

Darn Rick and JP. I missed your show on fingerpicking. The thread on it says it's going to be on Mudcat. Is that for sure?

marty

Subject: RE: Travis Picking - Misconceptions
From: Marion
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 06:21 PM

I watched that instructional video that Justa mentioned in the opening post. Are all the songs taught really instrumentals, or does Marcel just not like to sing?

Marion

Subject: RE: Travis Picking - Misconceptions
From: Mark Clark
Date: 03 Mar 03 - 07:46 PM

Marion, The selections are a mix of pure instrumentals and instrumental accompaniment for songs. There are also tabs in the accompanying booklet that aren't taught in the video. I think Dadi wasn't trying to do a performance video as much as an instructional one. I doubt many people would work through this video if they weren't already pretty familiar with Travis' body of work.

I agree with JP, it is a great set of lessons. Any experienced finger picker wanting to try Travis' style should own a copy.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: Travis Picking - Misconceptions
From: Marion
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 02:49 PM

Does anyone have an opinion on which of the tunes on the Marcel Dadi video are the easiest?

The tunes are: Fuller Blues, Cane Break Blues, Bluebelle, Saturday Night Shuffle, Cannonball Rag, Walking the Strings, and one other blues I can't remember.

Thanks, Marion

Subject: RE: Travis Picking - Misconceptions
From: Mark Clark
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 03:38 PM

In my opinion, all the tunes are great. Saturday Night Shuffle has always been a favorite of mine but if memory serves that one is included in the tablature but not in the video.

My advice is just take each tune in the sequence of the video and learn the extra ones after you've mastered the video lessons. As I recall, the lessons have a progression of difficulty and one should really master each one before proceeding to the next. The first lessons concentrate on the precision of the thumb pick and which strings to pick and how to get “that sound.” Early lessons also work on making some of the unusual chord fingerings and using the noting hand thumb for the bass E and A strings. The rest of the tunes will will go much easier if one takes the time to really master the earlier technique.

You'll also want to get the video of Merle Travis' Rare Performances and another video with Merle, Chet Atkins, Mose Rager and maybe Ike Everly that I can't remember the name of right now. Perhaps the best purely instrumental album Merle did was on Capital in the early fifties, re-released in the late sixties. I would think there should be a CD version of it but I can't find one on Amazon. I also checked eBay and didn't find this particular album for sale. Still, there's a lot of Travis' material still available and you'll really want to get a bunch of it to steep yourself in the style.

Good luck, I'd sure like to hear you play this style when you're ready.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: Travis Picking - Misconceptions
From: M.Ted
Date: 19 Mar 03 - 01:18 PM

Don't suppose that you could be persuaded to give a name for that album, Mark, or even better, a list of the cuts?

My favorite cuts of Merle's are the old Grandpa Jones recordings he did on King records, like Eight More Miles to Louisville--he was younger then, and he got nothing but better as he got older, but he layed a heck of a ground work for himself and everybody else with that stuff--

Subject: RE: Travis Picking - Misconceptions
From: Marion
Date: 19 Mar 03 - 03:39 PM

Thanks Mark Clark. I don't have the accompanying book, and I only have the VCR for a few more days, so I just intend to do one song off the video. If it goes from easiest to hardest, then I guess Fuller Blues it is.

Marion

Subject: RE: Travis Picking - Misconceptions
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 19 Mar 03 - 06:04 PM

Just off the top of my head I'd say "Fuller blues" might very well be the easiest. Bluebelle is nice. I learned it years ago from the Merle "Guitar solos" album. Have discovered he played it very differently each time.

I was never able to learn a song from beginning to end in someone else's arrangement. Simply, a short attention span on my part. What I HAVE learned from the Dadi tape is how Merle did his right hand triplets (can't do it his way with just thumb and index) and that wonderful augmented position (also used by Lenny Breau.)

The neat Travis tape I now have (thanks to J.P.) has a cut from Canadian TV in the seventies where Merle plays hotguitar with his son Thom Bresh. Thom didn't know at that time that Merle was his dad!!

Rick

Subject: RE: Travis Picking - Misconceptions
From: Stringer
Date: 19 Mar 03 - 06:46 PM

Thom Bresh has an instruction video available on Travis picking which is well worth checking out. (I found it in my local library) It also features him using Merle's D28 with the Paul Bigsby neck

Stringer

Subject: RE: Travis Picking - Misconceptions
From: kytrad (Jean Ritchie)
Date: 19 Mar 03 - 06:59 PM

We have an old film that my man George Pickow did, of Merle and Mose Reager talking and picking/singing together...I remember they had a sort of confusing conversation concerning "the thumb-lick with the thumb-pick," or "without the thumb-pick," and after the film was made, Merle told us they had after all come to the wrong conclusion! But it's down now on the film for all time... on the film, Merle plays and sings, "I Am a Pilgrim." This was in the early sixties. Also on the film are Clarence Ashley and his band including Doc Watson, and The Walker Family from Nobob,KY (residents have now changed the name of their p.o. to Summer Shade, KY. Some ladies' club was probably responsible. The name of the film was, "Hillbilly Music", part of a series called, "Lyrics and Legends." We still have a copy.

Subject: RE: Travis Picking - Misconceptions
From: Mark Clark
Date: 19 Mar 03 - 07:31 PM

Jean, That sounds like a wonderful film. Do you know if a re-issue has been done or is contemplated? What a treasure that would be. There seems to be very little footage of Mose available and seeing the two of them together would be a real treat.

M.Ted, The album is called “The Merle Travis Guitar,” Capitol SM-650. The jacket is bright yellow and easy to spot in a rack of used LPs. The largest image on the cover is Merle's Gibson Special Super 400 almost from the player's point of view. The cuts are:

Side 1

1. Blue Smoke
   
2. Black Diamond Blues
   
3. On a Bicycle Built for Two
   
4. Saturday Night Shuffle
   
5. Bugle Call Rag
   
6. Tuck Me to Sleep in My Old ’tucky Home
   

Side 2

1. Walkin’ the Strings
   
2. The Memphis Blues
   
3. The Sheik of Araby
   
4. Blue Bell
   
5. The Waltz You Saved for Me
   
6. Rockabye Rag
   

According to the sparse liner notes this is the first album of solos Merle recorded. “…Even though the music in this album sometimes sounds as though several guitars were playing at the same time, no recording tricks of any sort were used.”

      - Mark

Subject: RE: Travis Picking - Misconceptions
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 04:16 AM

Of course, most travis picking is done by machinery these days. After all the travis pickers were laid off in the great travis weevil infestation of the '50s, most of them hitched north and got jobs in the auto industry and then minimum wage meant the travis farmers couldn't afford to rehire 'em when government subsidies for replanting travis kicked in. Even wetbacks don't want to pick travis by hand now, so most is now grown in huge fields and picked by the tractor drawn Merle 2003 picker. The Fielding model is favoured in Canada, the mechanics are different but the crop comes out the same.

RtS
(Sorry, guys, couldn't resist it. Fascinating thread but I didn't understand a word- nothing new there!)

Subject: RE: Travis Picking - Misconceptions
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 10:03 AM

ROGER! LISTEN UP!

Ya put yer right hand down, ya put yer left hand down.

Do the travis pickin', spin yer fingers all around.

Don't forget yer thumb, and don't leave out that rest,

practice for about ten years, You'll be one of the best!

Rick

Subject: RE: Travis Picking - Misconceptions
From: M.Ted
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 11:23 AM

Thanks, Mark--it is now on my acquisitions short list--I appreciate you're listing the cuts, because, as you know, sometimes stuff is repackaged when it is released on CD--

Subject: RE: Travis Picking - Misconceptions
From: Art Thieme
Date: 22 Mar 03 - 04:47 PM

One of my favorite songs that Grandpa Jones put on a record is his version of "Goin' Across The Sea". Just fine banjo picking on that one---a bit different than Grandpa's normal style.

I told Ramona Jones how much I liked that song one day when we were over at Cathy Barton and Dave Parra's house in Boonville, Missouri. Ramona told me it wasn't Grandpa playing banjo on that track. It was Merle Travis ! Grandpa just did the singing.

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: Travis Picking - Misconceptions
From: Mark Clark
Date: 22 Mar 03 - 07:17 PM

Art, Thanks. That's wonderful bit of information. I'm still very fond of my Brown's Ferry Four album too.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: Travis Picking - Misconceptions
From: Inükshük
Date: 23 Mar 03 - 12:32 PM

What an absolutely magnificent resource this thread is! I've been trying to get that thumb pattern cold for decades. Thanks to J.P.'s meticulously explicit instructions it has all come together over the past few days. My hands are cramped, and my fingers are sore from the new positions, but I am elated.
Years ago I owned an instruction book that dealt exclusively with the Travis style. It pictured some of the unique chords utilized by Merle. I sure wish I had that book now. Would anyone know if such a book still exists?
In the meantime, would some of you more advanced players be generous enough to post a few of the special Travis chords that you have described in this thread as "innovative", "unorthodox", and "unusual"?
Thanks a million.

Subject: RE: Travis Picking - Misconceptions
From: Sam L
Date: 23 Mar 03 - 09:07 PM

This really has cleared up some perplexities for me, I've seen Travis picking mis-applied and wondered why it would be called that, since variants of alternating bass things have been around forever.

I'm not having too much trouble raking the bass strings, I've developed a little feel for it because a do a triplet-roll strum between my thumb and a finger which calls for an evenly raked bass whump. But I still can't use normal thumbpicks, and have to make my own. I do up thumbstrokes in there some. I'm not used to many consecutive downstrokes.

One thing I play which was described as Travis-picking, either wrongly or very broadly, has me moving my index sometimes up into the bass notes for simultaneous grasps, while the ring hits higher strings--it gets my hand into a higher, and closer to a string- parallel position I'm not accustomed to. I may have mis-understood, and was supposed to hit both bass notes with the thumb.

I need to hear more of this style, at this point. But thanks so much for taking the trouble to clearly explain the mechanics. People don't do enough of that, it's very helpful. I'll have to explain the things I know, as soon as I learn something somebody would want to know.

Roger I really liked your rather meticulous explanation of Travis picking also, and may commit it to memory.

Subject: RE: Travis Picking - Misconceptions
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 12:28 AM

Marty, I sent that "Travis fingerpicking" show to Mudcat, to archive. Even recorded it on minidisc so the sound is great. Haven't heard a word since or even an acknowledgement that it arrived. C'est la vie.

Inukshuk, here's an absolutely classic Travis chord...From the bass

4X043 with occasionally a first string fourth fret note. The notes are: G#XDBD (E or G#)

He uses it as a substitute for E major often.

Here's another classic:

3X3443 Remember...for the Travis "sound" use your thumb on the bass string. It's a neat G aug. He uses it prior to a C chord.

Cheers

Rick

Subject: RE: Travis Picking - Misconceptions
From: GUEST,Dustin Laurence
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 01:45 AM

This thread was fun for me because I once (in a fit of private sarcasm) started "collecting" definitions of "Travis Picking." The subconscious rule I worked under was it had to come from a book or something, someplace where there was some reason to expect some care in terminology, or at least from someone who presumably would know (i.e. some bozo you met in the back room of a music store doesn't count). Lessee if I can remember a few of the ones I came across:

* Any kind of pattern picking, probably without a real melodic line (from an instructional book I favor)

* Anything with an alternating bass (seems to pop up here and there)

* A particular pattern the author deems to be "Travis' pattern" (at least one book on my shelf)

* Same thing, but now with melody notes actually inserted into the pattern

* Hurt-style two line melody-over-alternating-bass (a recent book I picked up, if I interpret him correctly)

That's a mighty flexible term, isn't it? Well, at least I learned to investigate further and not make too many assumptions when I came across it.

There must have been more. Notice how none of those are what Justapicker and Rick Fielding tell us is how Travis actually picked? I more or less suspected as much from the proliferation of definitions, no more than one of which could be Travis' style in the first place.

Anyway, I am glad to find out what Travis actually did, just for the record, and collect another definition to watch out for.

What I learned to call "Cotten picking" probably isn't what she did either, but that's veering off-topic.

Dustin

Subject: RE: Travis Picking - Misconceptions
From: Sam L
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 09:07 AM

I have a little Travis stuff on tapes here somewhere, but wouldn't have known what I was listening to without this discussion.

The exercise above leaves me wondering does one typically omit the muted bass whump when a melody note is played on the 2 or 4? Or do those often get pinched together? I have trouble brushing-down, picking up together. I manage to hit a single note and brush other strings in a stroke, as I think was described, but trying to add a brush with a melody note I wind up throwing in an extra bass note sometimes.

The double-stopping with the ring finger is kinda harsh, y'all. And I do a pretty clean a-form barre with my ring finger, letting the high e-string sound. I can do it--have to let the finger protrude over the neck, but when I add other notes with my pinky it wobbles, I often stop the d-string f too. guess it's gonna have to hurt a little. Thanks again.

Subject: RE: Travis Picking - Misconceptions
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 09:57 AM

One of the problems is....ACTUAL Travis-picking is damn hard! Merle was one of only a small handful who mastered the complicated (at first) left hand chords. I've heard Ike Everly, Mose Rager, Thom Bresh Doc Watson and Marcel Dadi....and beyond those guys, there are VERY VERY few pickers who can do it consistently on ANY song.

You haven't learned a style if you can only pick a couple of songs in that style.....you really have to INVEST. It's worth it, it's a HUGE amount of fun...and definitely better then watching Seinfeld re-runs. One thing I WILL mention is that ALL the guys named used ONLY thumb and forefinger. I can't do that, so I use Thumb and TWO fingers.

If you can....get a video called (I think) 'Rare Merle Travis performances', possibly from Kicking Mule. It's an eye-opener. I can play a fair amount in his style, but after watching this...I realized, the guy's on another planet!!

The earliest clips have him sitting down in hokey rural sets picking his D-28 (with the Bigsby neck.....which is VERY thin!) and later clips have him dressed in Rhinestones, and glitz. One of the best clips is Merle (gettin' on in years) on a TV show with three of my guitar playin friends. I think it may have been taped in Peterborough Ontario. Also on the show is Thom Bresh....his son.....who doesn't KNOW yet that merle's his Dad!!

He was an absolute genius....

Rick

Subject: RE: Travis Picking - Misconceptions
From: Marion
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 02:52 PM

About Fuller Blues, as demonstrated on the Marcel Dadi video:

1. There's a measure close to the end that's a long run of triplets - I couldn't tell from the video how the notes were being sounded. It didn't appear to be a strict alternation between thumb and index: was each set of triplets thumb-index-middle, or thumb-index-index, or was he using pull-offs?

2. He went through a 12-bar blues progression three times; is it my imagination, or was the chord progression slightly different each time? It seemed that the IV chords were sometimes omitted or shortened in bars 2 and 10 but not consistently. Is this normal?

Thanks, Marion

PS I miss Justa Picker.

Subject: RE: Travis Picking - Misconceptions
From: Inükshük
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 03:18 PM

Thanks Rick,
I really appreciate picking up those two great chords. I'll be watching this thread like a hawk just in case you happen to drop a couple more.

Subject: RE: Travis Picking - Misconceptions
From: GUEST,Marion
Date: 24 Mar 03 - 03:32 PM

Hi Inukshuk. You can get a lot of guitar information, Travis-related or otherwise, by rooting through the archives of Mudcat threads. Do some browsing through the list of related threads at the top of this thread, and be sure to check out "Help for Pickers Young and Old Part 3" (both its list of threads at the top and the ones that are linked inside the thread).

Off the top of my head, there are some Travis techniques discussed in the threads titled:

Could I play like Doc Watson? Seriously
Pick like Doc? I'm improving at least
What the F is going on at Mudcat?
Does Mudcat seem to be flat right now?
Our friend the movable B7 chord

Marion

Subject: RE: Travis Picking - Misconceptions
From: M.Ted
Date: 25 Mar 03 - 12:23 PM

When you see those rare performances, it is worth noting that his playing evolved and developed over many, many years--(which is a nice way of saying that he just kept working out new tricks)-- he had an unfair advantage-- no matter what sort of thing he worked out, it was alway considered Travis picking--

Subject: RE: Travis Picking - Misconceptions
From: Mark Clark
Date: 25 Mar 03 - 01:10 PM

That's a really good point, M.Ted. Merle didn't just just bop down to the crossroads one night and trade his soul for Travis Picking. It took years of work and I'm guessing it was either succeed at music or die in the coal mines. He had way more natural ability than most of us (especially me) will ever have but he had a lot more motivation too.

I sure would like to have heard Arnold Schulz play.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: Travis Picking - Misconceptions
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Mar 03 - 04:41 PM

Subject: RE: Travis Picking - Misconceptions
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jul 03 - 05:55 PM

Subject: RE: Travis Picking - Misconceptions
From: Shane Gibbons
Date: 13 Jul 03 - 09:23 PM

Down in the South, we use "cotton-pickin'" as a derogatory term: eg. "that cotton pickin' fox is in the hen house ag'in." I never knew it was a guitar picking style.

Hi everybody: I'm a lurker who's working through "The Acoustic Guitar Method" books while learning to play my guitar. I just got to the fourth lesson in book 3 entitled "Introducing Travis Picking", and it certainly doesn't fit the definition I've learned here. David Hamburger, the author, writes:

It's time to learn the most essential fingerpicking approach in roots music, known generally as Travis picking (after Merle Travis, who popularized it) or the alternating thumb(or alternating bass) style. ...with Travis picking, you hit a lower bass note on the first and third beat of each bar, and an upper bass note on the second and fourth beat of each bar--or a bass note on every beat.

I found this site last weekend (from a link from Jed Marum's site) and I sure have enjoyed you folks so far. You probably won't hear much from me, but I'll be listening in...and hopefully learning a thing or three.

shane

Subject: RE: Travis Picking - Misconceptions
From: Marion
Date: 13 Jul 03 - 11:32 PM

Hi Shane, great to have you here. Are you in Texas as well?

I guess Hamburger's definition is an example of the popular misconceptions that Justa Picker wanted to counter with this thread; while true, it doesn't go far enough, and doesn't distinguish Travis picking from other alternating-bass styles like Cotten picking.

Cheers,

Marion (devoted Jedhead)

Subject: RE: Travis Picking - Misconceptions
From: Shane Gibbons
Date: 13 Jul 03 - 11:55 PM

Hey Marion.

Yep. I live in the DFW area, and we've caught Jed a few festivals since "discovering" him at the Celtic Heritage Festival in Bedford last year. We (that is, me and my family) drove to Austin to see him two or three weeks later, and there we discovered Ed Miller and Cluan. Since then, we've seen all three of them at the North Texas Irish Festival and the Texas Scottish Festival (a.k.a. Arlington Highland Games).

Most recently, we caught Jed's third installment of his "Into the West" series on July 3rd. My wife says he's gonna think I'm stalking him or something. I didn't know we were called "Jedheads". Maybe we should start a fan club. :) Anyways, I guess this is a little off topic.

Maybe we'll see you at the next festival (that is, if you're from Texas).

shane

Subject: RE: Travis Picking - Misconceptions
From: Marion
Date: 14 Jul 03 - 12:14 AM

Shane, I've been stalking Jed for about a year now, but from a distance (Ontario, Canada). However, I intend to visit Texas this winter, most likely in January.

Marion

Subject: RE: Travis Picking - Misconceptions
From: DADGBE
Date: 14 Jul 03 - 02:27 AM

A thread like this restores my faith in Mudcat!

Arkie made a quick comment that deserves more notice. He mentioned Eddy Pennington. Eddy and I were on staff at the Puget Sound Guitar Workshop a couple of times so I got to listen to one of the greatest players in the Travis style living today. It would be worth your time and effort to hunt down his recordings.

I just posted a long winded explanation about 'correct' left hand position on the 'How Do You Hold The Guitar Correctly' thread. Eddy breaks ALL my rules and plays better than I ever will. So much for dogma, I guess.

Mark, you asked a question concerning ragtime music. As I understand it, its defining characteristic is syncopation, not any particular chord groupings. (Of course, I may be a right about this as I am about hand positions.

Best,
Ray

Subject: RE: Travis Picking - Misconceptions
From: M.Ted
Date: 14 Jul 03 - 10:06 AM

Trust us on this one, Shane--there is a bit more to i it than your method book brings up, though it may be that he is presenting it a little bit at a time. Probably a good idea, since learning the ins and outs of Travis picking could keep you busy for the next 20 years, at least if you gloss over some things;-)

Anyway, welcome, and don't hesitate to post whatever comes into your head(everyone else does)--The best part of Mudcat is that you can ask a music question(even one you think is a little dumb) and get an answer fast!! I am most amaze when someone posts a few words from a forgotten song(of any kind) and the name of the song, the lyrics,the history, and often links to MIDI,streaming audio, or MP3 files appear in only minutes--

Subject: RE: Travis Picking - Misconceptions
From: Shane Gibbons
Date: 14 Jul 03 - 10:27 AM

Thanks for the welcome, Marion and M.Ted. I certainly agree that my method book doesn't give the full definition, but M.Ted is right--the author is just introducing the concept of an alternating bass fingerpicking style--(and it sure is fun!). The first alt.bass song is Banks of the Ohio, and the next one is Crawdad. Really fun stuff. There seems to be a lot of murder ballads out there...

Anyway, I've really enjoyed The Acoustic Guitar Method, mainly because of the songs that David Hamburger uses to teach the concepts. It's all roots music. While the arrangements are obviously simple, they are a blast to play, and I can look up the songs here on mudcat and learn tons more about their history and usually about a million more verses than what are printed in my book.

Mudcat has been a great find!

happy Monday all,
shane

Subject: RE: Travis Picking - Misconceptions
From: M.Ted
Date: 15 Jul 03 - 12:40 AM

Just curious--what key is "Banks of the Ohio" in?

Subject: RE: Travis Picking - Misconceptions
From: Shane Gibbons
Date: 15 Jul 03 - 10:00 AM

I play it in A.

I asked my [A]love
to take a [E]walk
take a [E7]walk
just a little [A]walk
down be[A7]side
where the waters [D/F#]flow
down by the [A]banks [E]
of the Ohi-[A]o

The picking pattern (on A) is:

  1  and  2  and  3  and  4  and
  T5  I3  T4  M2  T5  I3  T4  M2   

(substitute T6 for T5 on the 6 string chords)

shane

Subject: RE: Travis Picking - Misconceptions
From: M.Ted
Date: 15 Jul 03 - 01:55 PM

That's the key I do it in, as well--Where does the melody line fall in?

Subject: RE: Travis Picking - Misconceptions
From: Shane Gibbons
Date: 15 Jul 03 - 09:08 PM

Sorry, M.Ted--not sure I understand the question--I don't hang around many musicians, and I ain't "in" with the lingo. You'll notice from my earlier posts that I'm teaching myself using some books--Clarke Buehling (of Clark Buehling and the Skirtlifters fame) once told me that a self-taught guitar student has a fool for a teacher, but I'm too broke to make use of his advice.

Anyway, I know what melody is, but don't understand the question about where the melody "falls in".

shane

Subject: RE: Travis Picking - Misconceptions
From: M.Ted
Date: 16 Jul 03 - 04:18 PM

Sorry, "start" would have been easier to understand, I guess--I kind of view Travis picking as being something akin to juggling while riding a unicycle--first you get the alternating bass rolling, then you drop in business of the balls bouncing around--be that as it may--

Not sure what fingerings you are using, but the way I do it, which is with the open A chord(fingered O-O-2-2-2-O, which is E-A-E-A-C#-E), I am alternating on the A and E with my thumb(twice), and after that second E, I start the melody on the third string with my index finger("I asked my") so I hit "Love"(C#, which is the second fret on the B string) with my index finger, at the same time I make it back to the A bass note--

You can also play it with closed position chords(6 string barre chords) using the F-fingering at the fifth fret or as a using the partial D fingering at the ninth fret, which sounds great on a twelve string, with big rolling open bass notes and high register melody notes--

I recommend lessons, because the teacher knows what you need to know, and can tell you when you've got it right--And, I promise,the combination of these two things can save you years of trouble--However, if you don't have the money, you don't have the money--

A good way to get someone to show you how to do it when you can't pay for lessons is to find someone in a club that is playing in this style, watch them play for a while, then at the break, ask them how it works---Or hang around a folk type guitar store til someone starts Travis-picking and do the same thing--Most often, those who've learned to do do it are glad to pass on a few tips to those who want to learn it--

Subject: RE: Travis Picking - Misconceptions
From: Shane Gibbons
Date: 17 Jul 03 - 09:52 AM

Hey M.Ted...thanks for all the tips. When I play Banks of the Ohio, the melody falls in when I start singing. {G} I'm just starting the alternating bass fingerpicking stuff, and it's tough enough just to get my right hand going with the basic pattern. I'm not doing any melody with the guitar yet.

Singing while playing is a recent breakthrough for me, though. It just kinda started working a couple of weekends ago--I'm not sure what made the difference, except that my hands are beginning to be able to go on autopilot so that they leave a few brain cycles left to try to sing the words.

shane

Subject: RE: Travis Picking - Misconceptions
From: Mark Clark
Date: 11 May 06 - 10:57 PM

Three years is way too long for this wonderful thread to sit idle.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: Travis Picking - Misconceptions
From: Arkie
Date: 11 May 06 - 11:34 PM

What a timely return.   Tomorrow the Ozark Folk Center in Mountain View, Arkansas begins its annual Tribute to Merle Travis.   Thom Bresh, Eddie Adcock, Pat Kirley, and Comer Mullins will be on hand to help with the workshop and join in the concerts as well as judge the National Thumbpicking Competition.