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Shinbone Alley: Where is it?

DigiTrad:
BULLY IN THE ALLEY


Related threads:
Lyr Req: Bully in the Alley (78)
Help: Kicking Up Bob's A-Dying? (38)
Lyr Req: new words to bully in the alley (6)
Lyr Req: bully in the alley (20)
Wishbone Alley (3)


Chanteyranger 05 Feb 02 - 10:59 PM
Sorcha 05 Feb 02 - 11:22 PM
Melani 06 Feb 02 - 12:52 AM
Margo 06 Feb 02 - 01:17 AM
Margo 06 Feb 02 - 01:24 AM
Margo 06 Feb 02 - 01:27 AM
Margo 06 Feb 02 - 01:32 AM
Margo 06 Feb 02 - 01:34 AM
Margo 06 Feb 02 - 01:37 AM
Margo 06 Feb 02 - 01:41 AM
Margo 06 Feb 02 - 01:50 AM
Bill D 06 Feb 02 - 06:58 AM
Madam Gashee 06 Feb 02 - 04:35 PM
Madam Gashee 06 Feb 02 - 04:44 PM
Charlie Baum 06 Feb 02 - 05:57 PM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 06 Feb 02 - 06:20 PM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 06 Feb 02 - 09:16 PM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 06 Feb 02 - 09:19 PM
GUEST,Pete Peterson 06 Feb 02 - 10:51 PM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 07 Feb 02 - 01:52 AM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 07 Feb 02 - 01:56 AM
Margo 07 Feb 02 - 01:58 AM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 07 Feb 02 - 02:29 AM
paddymac 07 Feb 02 - 02:42 AM
Green Man 07 Feb 02 - 04:08 AM
McGrath of Harlow 07 Feb 02 - 08:04 AM
Charley Noble 07 Feb 02 - 08:16 AM
wysiwyg 07 Feb 02 - 09:27 AM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 07 Feb 02 - 11:59 AM
pattyClink 07 Feb 02 - 02:54 PM
Charley Noble 07 Feb 02 - 03:46 PM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 07 Feb 02 - 06:59 PM
Rolfyboy6 07 Feb 02 - 08:33 PM
Chanteyranger 07 Feb 02 - 10:04 PM
Melani 08 Feb 02 - 12:32 AM
harpgirl 15 Nov 03 - 01:21 AM
GUEST,Charlie 03 Sep 12 - 09:45 AM
Charley Noble 03 Sep 12 - 11:16 AM
Don Firth 03 Sep 12 - 04:08 PM
Charley Noble 03 Sep 12 - 09:58 PM
Jack Campin 01 Sep 15 - 03:04 PM
GUEST,Pirate Jo 21 Jan 16 - 05:44 PM
keberoxu 21 Jan 16 - 06:36 PM
GUEST,# 21 Jan 16 - 06:49 PM
GUEST,Phil d'Conch 21 Jan 16 - 11:51 PM
GUEST,Phil d'Conch 24 Jan 16 - 05:22 AM
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Subject: Shinbone Alley: Where is it?
From: Chanteyranger
Date: 05 Feb 02 - 10:59 PM

Apparently there are several Shinbone Alleys out there. On my recent trip to NYC, Liam's Brother told me about lower Manhattan's Shinbone Alley, where Stan Hugill had his photo taken next to the sign. The sign was taken down years ago, and Liam's Brother reports that its exact location is now forgotten. Riggy mentioned a Shinbone Alley in..I forgot exactly...an Island. A Mudcat search reveals a reference to a Shinbone Alley in Wiscasset, Maine. Is there any certainty about which Shinbone Alley the chantey of that name refers to? Or is it anyone's guess?

-chanteyranger


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Subject: RE: Shinbone Alley: Where is it?
From: Sorcha
Date: 05 Feb 02 - 11:22 PM

Well, because of Bob Wills, I always figured it was in Texas somewhere........(grin)


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Subject: RE: Shinbone Alley: Where is it?
From: Melani
Date: 06 Feb 02 - 12:52 AM

Riggy said Hamilton, Bermuda. Find the picture of Hugill and try to figure it out from the buildings, etc.


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Subject: RE: Shinbone Alley: Where is it?
From: Margo
Date: 06 Feb 02 - 01:17 AM

http://www.forgotten-ny.com/Alleys/Soho/soho.html

There's one reference. Will post more when I surface again, Margo


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Subject: RE: Shinbone Alley: Where is it?
From: Margo
Date: 06 Feb 02 - 01:24 AM

http://www.wfsi.org/history.html

Another mention of a Shinbone Alley "district" in Pittsburg...


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Subject: RE: Shinbone Alley: Where is it?
From: Margo
Date: 06 Feb 02 - 01:27 AM

http://www.stoningtonhistory.org/light2.htm

This one is in New York and tells where!!


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Subject: RE: Shinbone Alley: Where is it?
From: Margo
Date: 06 Feb 02 - 01:32 AM

http://www.purcellteam.com/DreamAssignments/bermuda.html

This one shows a Shinbone Alley in Bermuda!!


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Subject: RE: Shinbone Alley: Where is it?
From: Margo
Date: 06 Feb 02 - 01:34 AM

http://www.acsarch.com/work_07.html

Whoa! Check out the loft that overlooks Shinbone Alley in New York....


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Subject: RE: Shinbone Alley: Where is it?
From: Margo
Date: 06 Feb 02 - 01:37 AM

http://www.correctionhistory.org/html/chronicl/ny1816-60/oct01a.html

This one gives former names of streets that have been since changed, including what used to be known as Shinbone Alley. Now, taking this description, you might find it on a map?


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Subject: RE: Shinbone Alley: Where is it?
From: Margo
Date: 06 Feb 02 - 01:41 AM

http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/aaohtml/exhibit/aopart1b.html

This page has a reference to a song that was known as "Long Time Ago," also known as "Shinbone Alley". Interesting...


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Subject: RE: Shinbone Alley: Where is it?
From: Margo
Date: 06 Feb 02 - 01:50 AM

http://hmi.homewood.net/alabama.html

This one gives another reference to Bermuda in the last paragraph. Have I done enough damage? :o)


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Subject: RE: Shinbone Alley: Where is it?
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Feb 02 - 06:58 AM

The story I heard was that the original, (as mentioned in the chanty "Bully in the Alley") was in the Carribean, and was a famous lawless pirates lair, sorta like Dodge City before Marshal Dillon....so, Bermuda? Jamica? (It's been several years since I read the details, but there is a Mudcat thread on the shanty with MANY guesses as to origin


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Subject: RE: Shinbone Alley: Where is it?
From: Madam Gashee
Date: 06 Feb 02 - 04:35 PM

Got a nice pic of my other half under a street sign of "Shinbone Alley" taaken in St George's, Bermuda last year.


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Subject: RE: Shinbone Alley: Where is it?
From: Madam Gashee
Date: 06 Feb 02 - 04:44 PM

He & a fellow shanty man stood under the sign
& sang whilst amazed locals looked on!


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Subject: RE: Shinbone Alley: Where is it?
From: Charlie Baum
Date: 06 Feb 02 - 05:57 PM

The Shinbone Alley referred to in Margo's message of 1:27 am above is actually the end of Wall Street in Stonington Borough, Connecticut, according to the website it leads to. (Stonington is a historic seaport village in Eastern Connecticut; anymore east and you'd be in Rhode Island. The next harbor west is Mystic, which has become famous for Mystic Seaport and Mystic Pizza.)

--Charlie Baum


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Subject: RE: Shinbone Alley: Where is it?
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Feb 02 - 06:20 PM

Spin the globe and toss a dart. It could be anywhere or nowhere. It would be just as easy to locate the holy grail. If you must put it somewhere, Stonington, Mystic or anywhere in the New London area would be as good as any.


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Subject: RE: Shinbone Alley: Where is it?
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Feb 02 - 09:16 PM

Mehitabel (the cat) flung a party in Shinbone Alley. (From the lives and times of archy and mehitabel by don marquis)
this shinbone alley is or was in new york city

dear boss mehitabel shows
no evidence of reform
she flung a party in shinbone alley
last night and six of the toughest
tabbies i ever saw were her guests
all seven of them danced on the ash cans
flirting their tails in the moonlight
and chanting as follows

oh wotthehell do we care
if we are down and out
theres a dance or two in the old janes yet
so caper and swing about
up and down the alley
through and over the fence
for still we are attractive
to various feline gents
meow meow meow

now then sadie don't talk shady
try and remember you and myrtle
that you was raised a lady
that goes for you too gertie
oh i was chased down broadway
by a tom with a ribbon and bell
i says to him my limber jim
you seem to know me well
says he to me oh can it be
you are mehitabel
oh wotthehell girls wotthehell
as long as the gents is for us
we still got a job in the chorus
we aint no maltese flappers
we all seen better days
but we got as much it
as an ingenue kit
and it is the art that pays
meow meow meow

written by archy the cockroach about 1922
a lot more to the story
but ill leave it at that


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Subject: RE: Shinbone Alley: Where is it?
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Feb 02 - 09:19 PM

dang i capitalized an i and put in an apostrophe

no boss

funny things happen when a cockroach

jumps on the keys of one of these new computers

archyclone 23 jul 02


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Subject: RE: Shinbone Alley: Where is it?
From: GUEST,Pete Peterson
Date: 06 Feb 02 - 10:51 PM

Dicho, nice to know there are some other Don Marquis fans out there! My own knowledge of Shinbone Alley is from Harry C. Browne (I once put out a Mudcat query on him and got No response, refreshed at least once & gave up) who recorded:

Shinbone Alley! Shinebone Alley!
That's where all the (politically incorrect)s love to go
Every colored lady and her beau
Shinbone Alley! Shinebone Alley!
All do the sparkin' All meadowlarkin' On a Saturday night

The various sea refernces are much earlier as the Browne was recorded around 1915 or so.


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Subject: Lyr Add: LONG TIME AGO: 'A NEGRO SONG'
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Feb 02 - 01:52 AM

References to Negroes in Shinbone Alley go back to before 1900. It may have become a black ghetto at one time. I presume the New York Shinbone Alley is the one mentioned in two songs on one sheet titled "Long Time Ago" in the Levy sheet music collection. Both are parodies of Negro speech. The image is not sharp and the lettering is small.
There seems to be no word relation to the drag chanty "Long Time Ago," in King's Book of Chanties (posted by Okiemockbird back in Feb. '00): Long Time Ago - but the form is suggestive of a chantey. The reference to "Clem, de weaver" does come from another song. The relationship to Bully In The Alley" and "Miss Sally" is obvious: Bully
Here are the words that I could decipher (I hope someone can pick out the rest). It is printed in two-line couplets, but I have not separated them here. I have blanked one word for those who want to rewrite the past.

LONG TIME AGO

A Negro Song

As I was a-gwine down Shinbone Alley, Long time ago!
To buy a bonnet for Miss Sally, Long time ago.
Dere I met ole Clem de weaver, Long time ago
In his hand he had a cleaver, Long time ago.
Behind de fence I watch he ---, Long time ago
Kase I know he have a ---, Long time ago.
I says ole Clem what dat you doin', Long time ago
Long time befo' de n----r spoken, Long time ago.
Is got a gun across his shoulder, Long time ago
As soon he ---- I did behold her, Long time ago.
He fire his gun to shoot a n----r, Long time ago
He shoot 'coon big as dat an' bigger, Long time ago.
He skin him for he hide and tallow, Long time ago
An' dat de way he get rich, dat fellow, Long time ago.
I had my hat full ole rum cherry, Long time ago
I make he eat 'em, he get merry, Long time ago.
He get so corn'd he fall in riber, Long time ago
An wen he get out he ---, Long time ago.
Dat he hab ?loss he hide and ?tallow, Long time ago
He ?cuss me for a --- fellow, Long time ago.
So I got out to Shinbone Alley, Long time ago
An buy de bonnet for Miss Sally, Long time ago.

DE ODER SONG

As I was gwine down Shinbone Alley, Long time ago
Dere I meet ole Johnny Glatty, Long time ago.
He had a musket on his shoulder, Long time ago
He look bold as sheep and bolder, Long time ago.
I ax him where he was gwine to, Long time ago
Long time afore he tell me, Long time ago
He gwine down to shoot a n----r, Long time ago
He cock he gun an' pull de trigger, Long time ago.
He shot a n----r through de collar, Long time ago
Des poor Caffer kick and holler, Long time ago.
I ax what he do dat for, Long time ago
De n----r no say why not ?wherefore, Long time ago.
Ole Johnny Glatty pull de trigger, Long time ago
An' dat's de last o' dat dere n----r, Long time ago.

The reference to Caffer (=Kaffir?) suggests familiarity with South Africa. These songs have a definite nautical odor to them. There is a thread which refers to Clem the Weaver, but I can't find it. The songs also made me think of "Will The Weaver" and "Hog-Eye Man." ( both in DT)


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Subject: RE: Shinbone Alley: Where is it?
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Feb 02 - 01:56 AM

Try again, "Long Time Ago" chantey: Here


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Subject: RE: Shinbone Alley: Where is it?
From: Margo
Date: 07 Feb 02 - 01:58 AM

Your censorship is very irritating. The words reflect another time in history. If you print them it doesn't necesserily mean you agree with it. Some of your dashed lines are obvious to me what should go there but others are a mystery to me. I wish you'd just print the whole song... Margo


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Subject: RE: Shinbone Alley: Where is it?
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Feb 02 - 02:29 AM

Margo, I AGREE BUT- see what Wysiwyg and others have done with the word nigger. We have two threads about a song, each with many posts, as a result; one called Run, Nigger, Run, the other Run,----run or some such. In the former see the big red letters warning correspondents off. I agree with you; immature hand wringing and censorship of history is responsible, but sometimes I get a little gun-shy.
Here is the thread; the specific post is 23 Sep 01 12:47AM: Here Also see posts following my insertion of some new lyrics on 23 Dec 01.
In the songs I have posted here, only the word written as n----r was censored. All the other dashes: ---, are words that I can't decipher from the Levy website. A few that I think that I have deciphered but am not certain about bear a ? in front.
If you can fill them in, I would greatly appreciate it.


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Subject: RE: Shinbone Alley: Where is it?
From: paddymac
Date: 07 Feb 02 - 02:42 AM

It seems to me there is a big difference between censorship in the sense of sanitizing to comport with contemporary standards, and censorship in the sense of avoiding needless affrontery, as Dicho has done here. The former is censorship; the later is common courtesy. I'm on his side.


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Subject: RE: Shinbone Alley: Where is it?
From: Green Man
Date: 07 Feb 02 - 04:08 AM

Shinbone Alley, a place to avoid because the 'Bullies' or press gangs frequented the area. A place good for ambush. To struck with what feels like a shinbone and wake up dead. (Pressed onto a Warship)

Ref 'Bully in the Alley' Childs.


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Subject: RE: Shinbone Alley: Where is it?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Feb 02 - 08:04 AM

Not far from Diagon Alley I believe.


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Subject: RE: Shinbone Alley: Where is it?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 07 Feb 02 - 08:16 AM

Nice to learn some more. I'd still like to see some "bully verses" as an alternative to the "Sally" ones. Given the chorus, they would make more sense if "sense" is important in a Shanty.


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Subject: RE: Shinbone Alley: Where is it?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 07 Feb 02 - 09:27 AM

"Censorship" is a funny thing to try to think about.

As an experiment, think about it this way. Say I have a strong feeling that I do not wish to say certain words-- swear words (Not my particular problem but imagine! *G*).

I might have any number of reasons.

It might be that I know they cause others pain, it might be I think they are wrong words, it might be that I know some people have filters on their computers at work that keep them out of sites that use these words anywhere in them, it might be I think I am bad when I use them, it might be that I just do not want to use one scrap of my breath to add to the ugliness already freely circulating in the world's airspace.

Whatever-- it doesn't really matter what the reason, it's my speech, I'm responsible for it, and it's my choice how to moderate it.

When I do that, though, I'm not telling someone else how to speak-- that's their lookout! I've made no commitment about that, and wouldn't. I might express an opinion-- but I would not fling that and bail out of the communication, like a lot of folks tend to do (not accsing anyone here, just saying---) nor would I throw it in their face every time I run across it and get upset again-- as others tend to do. *G*G* I might give information about how their speech affects people, especially where I have experience working closely with people who have shared their hearts with me on the matter-- just as informatiom tho, not as "Why, you oughtta..." like a dysfunctional Moe Howard. *G*

Well, back to the music side of this and our experiment. Say I have made a commitment to myself not to use these words, period, period. Now I find a song I want to post for someone else who wants it. It's got words I do not use, for whatever reason. But say I have made a commitment to be helpful, even when someone else's beliefs and commitments differ from mine-- cuz that's their lookout.

I might use dashes, you know, I just might.

I am not censoring a song when I choose to indicate blanks where the word goes and where anyone who cares to can figure out what it is. I am simply speaking as I see fit.

Try imaginging it that way. One person has a right to say things how they choose to, and to pressure them to change that is where the actual censorship is trying to occur! *G*

~Susan


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Subject: RE: Shinbone Alley: Where is it?
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Feb 02 - 11:59 AM

Charley, couldn't find any "Bully in the Alley" verses in Levy. Several "Bully" songs, but all are parodies of Negro songs; one about a bully boatman; but none in chantey form.


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Subject: RE: Shinbone Alley: Where is it?
From: pattyClink
Date: 07 Feb 02 - 02:54 PM

Well, all I know is, the number on the gate's the number on the door, and the next place over is a grocery store.


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Subject: RE: Shinbone Alley: Where is it?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 07 Feb 02 - 03:46 PM

Dicho - Sure, there's a "standard" "Bully in the Alley" shanty I've been singing for years, with a version in the DT, but I'm still convinced there's a forerunner out there somewhere about being the meanest bad-assed cuss in the Alley instead of the usual "Sally" verses.


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Subject: RE: Shinbone Alley: Where is it?
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Feb 02 - 06:59 PM

I think you are right, Charlie. The Negro versions of Shinbone Alley, or Long Time Ago which I have posted are based on an older song by "Daddy" Rice (1833), which it turn has the feel of being based on a still older song.
Here is some supposed history from the American Memory site: "'Long Time Ago,' also known as 'Shinbone Alley,' is one of the few pieces of published music dating from before the Civil War that is believed to be a genuine African-American tune. The song, published in 1833, comes to us filtered through a performance by a white artist, Thomas ("Daddy") Rice {of the "Ethiopian Opera"}. It was offered for sale not as an example of African American music but as a part of Rice's repertory." The sheet music cover shows Rice in his blackface costume. Unfortunately, I could only find the first page of the sheet music. "Long Time Ago" was republished with a different, sentimental text in 1939 as "Near The Lake Drooped The Willow." The note then refers to the arrangement by Aaron Copland in his "Old American Songs."
The article is nonsense in part, since the poem "Near the Lake..." was written and published by George Pope Morris (in 1840, Appleton Press?). This is pointed out on the Library of Univ. Virginia website. Here There is no resemblance to Rice's song.
The sheet music to M. T. Rice's "Long Time Ago" was published by John Cole in Baltimore in 1833- thus mention of Shinbone Alley goes at least this far back. The two versions I have posted are obvious steals from Rice.
There is no evidence of an older "African-American" predecessor.
The story of "Clem, the weaver" or "John Glatty" and the doings in Shinbone Alley bears some resemblance to the story of the visit to Dublin and its Petticoat Lane by a man from County Down. This was published in broadsides in the first half of the 19th Century, but its origins are unknown. Of course, songs about a stranger finding strange things happening in town are fairly common.


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Subject: Lyr Add: STAY ALL NIGHT (from Bob Wills)
From: Rolfyboy6
Date: 07 Feb 02 - 08:33 PM

STAY ALL NIGHT by Bob Wills and his Texas Playboys

You ought to see my blue-eyed Sally
She lives down on Shin-bone alley
The number on the gate, the number on the door
The next house over is a grocery store

Chorus:
Stay all night, stay a little longer
Dance all night, dance a little longer
Pull off your coat and throw it in the corner
Don't see why you don't stay a little longer

You can't get home if you're going by the mill
Cause the bridge washed out at the bottom of the hill
The big creek's up and the big creek's level
Plow my corn with a double shovel

Chorus:

Settin' in the window, singin' to my love
Slop bucket fell from the window up above
Mule and grasshopper eatin' ice cream
Mule got sick and we laid him on a beam

Chorus:

Swing your best gal.


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Subject: RE: Shinbone Alley: Where is it?
From: Chanteyranger
Date: 07 Feb 02 - 10:04 PM

Hey, thanks for all your input, Mudcatters. Next trip to New York, I'll see if I can find the Soho location. The websites listed should help. Green Man's post leads me to ponder whether Shinbone Alley became a generic term for any alley where sailors were often known to have been attacked by crimps, thereby accounting for so many Shinbone Alleys.

McGrath - Funny you should mention Diagon Alley. Yesterday this owl flew into my office and dropped a letter instructing me to go there and buy some items for school. Very strange, but if I can find out where Diagon Alley is, I'll check it out.

Thanks again, everyone.

-chanteyranger


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Subject: RE: Shinbone Alley: Where is it?
From: Melani
Date: 08 Feb 02 - 12:32 AM

Buy all the school supplies you like, chanteyranger--I'VE got the Golden Snitch.


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Subject: Stay All Night:More Verses?
From: harpgirl
Date: 15 Nov 03 - 01:21 AM

...aren't there any other verses to this song?


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Subject: RE: Shinbone Alley: Where is it?
From: GUEST,Charlie
Date: 03 Sep 12 - 09:45 AM

I have been researching Shinbone Alley in NYC and ended up here.
I remember passing Shinbone Alley somewhere in the East Village.  Searching on the Web, the source of all true knowledge, I could only find three locations that have been identified as Shinbone Alley:
1) going north between 41 and 43 Bleeker St (unnamed in Google Maps but probably a continuation of Jones Alley)
2) going north next to 2 Bond St (labeled Great Jones Alley)
3) running along Washington Pl between University Pl (Washington Sq E) and Fifth Ave (in Washington Sq Park where the fountain is)
Perhaps they are all right, or at least the first two, because I also came across a web page quoting a NY Times article from the 1800s saying the alley went north, turned west and then turned north again.  That fits with my memory which says I saw street signs for it going west off of Lafayette St between Bond St and Bleeker St (labeled Jones Alley) and exiting onto Bond St between Lafayette St and Broadway (across the street from Great Jones Alley on Google Maps) but I need to get down there again to confirm it.  I can see where it might have been composed of what is now labeled Jones alley and Great Jones Alley which would fit with the Times N-W-N description.  
And I just came across this real estate Web site that shows Shinbone Alley running from Great Jones St south to Jones Alley :
http://www.rkf.com/rkf/lease-property-detail-flyer.php?lease_property_id=262

There is another Shinbone Alley on the grounds of Sailor's Snug Harbor on Staten Island:
http://www.mywebdesign.us/snug/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/PLAN_park_map2.pdf
I suspect that one is apocryphal though given it's location between the dormitory buildings and it not extending off the property.


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Subject: RE: Shinbone Alley: Where is it?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 03 Sep 12 - 11:16 AM

Here's a link to one image of "Shinbone Al" in the South Street area of old New York City: Click here for a good time!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Shinbone Alley: Where is it?
From: Don Firth
Date: 03 Sep 12 - 04:08 PM

More--

Newspaper columnist Don Marquis would go into his office in the morning and find a sheet of typed paper in his typewriter. There were no capitals and the punctuation was very sparse. This was because the piece had been typed during the night by a cockroach named archy.

archy typed by diving off the frame of the typewriter onto a letter key. This took a lot of time and effort, and there were no caps because archy couldn't hold down the shift key and type a letter at the same time.

archy was a reincarnation, into the body of a cockroach, of a verse libre poet who had died many years ago. archy's columns talked a great deal about the state of the world as viewed from the underside.

And he talked a lot about the doings and affairs of his good friend, mehitabel, the alley cat.

mehitabel's main place of abode, and where she did her shopping in the many garbage cans, and where she generally had her aforementioned "affairs" was called "Shinbone Alley."

archy and mehitabel.

Shinbone Alley.

archy interviews mehitabel while she dines on the dregs of a can if sardines:   CLICKY.

don firth


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Subject: RE: Shinbone Alley: Where is it?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 03 Sep 12 - 09:58 PM

Don-

Thanks for the notes and further links about the theatre musical "Shinbone Alley."

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Shinbone Alley: Where is it?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 01 Sep 15 - 03:04 PM

Ignoring the spam that popped this back up - about 30 years ago the landlady of the house I was staying in at the time was a Don Marquis fan. She didn't just read the "archy and mehitabel" pieces, she could sing them. The tunes were in the style of the period (like what Janet Klein does) but I couldn't specifically identify them, not being very familiar with that kind of music. But they were absolutely convincing - she had clearly got them exactly right.

So, I'd guess there are verbal pointers in the text to songs that Marquis was parodying or alluding to. Has anybody found out what they all were?


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Subject: RE: Shinbone Alley: Where is it?
From: GUEST,Pirate Jo
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 05:44 PM

There is a chantey that we've learned called "Bully in the Alley" that refers to "Shinbone Alley". However, in doing research on the original definition of "Bully", it meant "sweetheart" or "pimp" long before it changed into the modern definition of "someone who is mean or cruel".

Here are the lyrics:

Help me, Bob, I'm bully in the alley,
Way hey, Bully in the alley.
Help me, Bob, I'm bully in the alley,
Bully down in Shinbone al.

Sally was a girl that I loved dearly,
Way hey, Bully in the alley.
Sally was the girl that I spliced nearly,
Bully down in Shinbone al.

For seven long years I courted little Sally,
Way hey, Bully in the alley.
All she did was dilly and a dally,
Bully down in Shinbone al.

If ever I get back, I'll marry little Sally,
Way hey, Bully in the alley.
Have six kids and live in Shinbone alley,
Bully down in Shinbone al.

Help me Bob, I'm bully in the alley,
Way hey, Bully in the alley.
Help me Bob, I'm bully in the alley,
Bully down in Shinbone al.


...though this adds nothing to the discussion about WHERE Shinbone Alley actually is, I though it was an interesting addition to the conversation.


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Subject: RE: Shinbone Alley: Where is it?
From: keberoxu
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 06:36 PM

Eartha Kitt forever.


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Subject: RE: Shinbone Alley: Where is it?
From: GUEST,#
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 06:49 PM

https://ephemeralnewyork.wordpress.com/2010/07/24/nohos-wonderfully-named-shinbone-alley/

That's a brief history of Shinbone Alley in NYC, including where it was located.


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Subject: RE: Shinbone Alley: Where is it?
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 11:51 PM

OP: Shinbone Alley: Where is it?

For both the chanty and the minstrelsy:
"Shin-Bone Alley" was code for the transient ghetto/tent city just outside of town, not unlike Stephen Foster's camptown. The two related legends are: tripping over tent pegs & guy lines and/or crawling back home (drunk) on one's hands & knees. It also describes the area behind a circus midway, same reasoning.

Trivia: American circus entertainer Dan McLaren took his stage name "Dan Rice" from the most popular minstrel of the day, Thomas "Daddy" Rice (Long Time Ago/Shinbone Alley.) But it was stablehand/jockey McClaren when he first introduced Morrison "Mit" Foster and his kid brother Stephen to "De Camptown Races" outside Pittsburg, PA.

Chanty:
"Help me Bob" is false oath for "So help me God."
As mentioned elsewhere "bully" is happy drunk. Feelin' good.
Hands down, most notorious Atlantic sailor's shinbone alley for the period was in St. Georges Town, Bermuda.


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Subject: RE: Shinbone Alley: Where is it?
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 24 Jan 16 - 05:22 AM

(American) Urban sprawl being what it is, by the end of the 19th century "shinbones" had regular brick & mortar houses & grocery stores. It still meant the poor side of town though.

"Gwine to Git a Home By an' By"
[Odum & Johnson (NWS 176,) 1926]

My ol' missus promised me,
Gwine to git a home by an' by,
When she died, she'd set me free,
Gwine to git a home by an' by.
She did live till she got bal',
Gwine to git a home by an' by,
And she never died at all,
Gwine to git a home by an' by

(Chorus)
Den O dat watermelon!
Lamb of goodness, you must die;
I'm gwine to jine de contraband, chillun,
Gwine to git a home by an' by.

A shoo-fly cut a pigeon wing,
Gwine to git a home by an' by;
A rattlesnake rolled in a 'possum's skin,
Gwine to git a home by an' by.
Cow path crooked gwine through the wood,
Gwine to git a home by an' by,
Missus says I shan't, I says I should,
Gwine to git a home by an' by.

Sister Sue and ol' Aunt Sallie,
Gwine to git a home by an' by,
Both live down in shin-bone alley,
Gwine to git a home by an' by.
Name on de house, name on de do',
Gwine to git a home by an' by,
Big green spot on de grocery sto',
Gwine to git a home by an' by.


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