Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafemuddy

Post to this Thread - Sort Descending - Printer Friendly - Home


Lyr Req: The Rose Tree

Jon W. 16 Mar 98 - 05:54 PM
Susan of DT 16 Mar 98 - 07:28 PM
Bruce O. 16 Mar 98 - 07:50 PM
Bruce O. 16 Mar 98 - 08:08 PM
Jon W. 17 Mar 98 - 10:44 AM
masato sakurai 11 Oct 03 - 12:52 AM
masato sakurai 11 Oct 03 - 12:56 AM
masato sakurai 11 Oct 03 - 04:18 AM
masato sakurai 26 Oct 03 - 06:18 PM
Dave Bryant 27 Oct 03 - 10:06 AM
masato sakurai 28 Oct 03 - 03:58 AM
cetmst 28 Oct 03 - 07:12 AM
cetmst 28 Oct 03 - 09:41 AM
masato sakurai 28 Oct 03 - 10:04 AM
Malcolm Douglas 28 Oct 03 - 12:26 PM
Jon W. 28 Oct 03 - 06:40 PM
masato sakurai 29 Oct 03 - 05:10 AM
GUEST,Mary Van Deusen 24 Feb 04 - 09:09 AM
GUEST,Mary Van Deusen 24 Feb 04 - 11:38 AM
Malcolm Douglas 24 Feb 04 - 11:51 AM
GUEST,Yuanji Fan from China 08 Apr 04 - 09:41 AM
masato sakurai 08 Apr 04 - 11:03 AM
GUEST 24 Oct 12 - 02:05 PM
GUEST,luckylcs 28 Jul 13 - 02:44 PM
Martha Burns 20 Sep 13 - 12:51 AM
Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:









Subject: Lyr req: The Rose Tree
From: Jon W.
Date: 16 Mar 98 - 05:54 PM

I bought a clawhammer banjo book the other day which has a tune in it under the name "The Rose Tree". The note says it dates from the mid 18th century and is known wherever English is spoken. It is called "Portlairge" in Ireland (I'm familiar with this from the singing of the Clancy Bros., who do it in Gaelic) and "False Knight on the Road" in Scotland. The last seems to be Child #3, of which there are four versions (at least) in the DT, but none of the tunes there match this one. Does anyone know if there are English words to this, either a "False Knight" that matches the tune, or words that match the title "The Rose Tree", or both?

PS. It also seems to be closely related to another tune in the book call "Grand Old Dame Britannia."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr req: The Rose Tree
From: Susan of DT
Date: 16 Mar 98 - 07:28 PM

no rose trees in child 3 in Child or Bronson or in Child's index


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr req: The Rose Tree
From: Bruce O.
Date: 16 Mar 98 - 07:50 PM

"A rose tree in full bearing" is a song by John O'Keeffe in 'The Poor Soldier", 1783. The tune was an old one called, found in Scots collections as "The Gimblet" in Oswald's CPC, bk. 10, p. 17 (I have a copy of this). It was also called "The old lea rigg" and in bk. 1 of Aird's Airs (c 1778) it is called 'The Dainty Besom Maker". Thomas Moore used it for his cong commencing "I'd mourn the hopes" in 'A Selection of Irish Melodies', #5, 1813, and the tune was printed in New York in 1814 in 'Riley's Flute Melodies". According to Alfred Moffat the tune is in the Thompson's '24 Country dances for the Year 1764' under the title "The Irish Lilt" (A generic title, I have 2 more of this title that aren't "Rose tree"). Most of these and other titles, like the Irish "Little Mary Cullenan" and "Little Sheila Connellan", are in S. P. Baryard's 'Dance to the Fiddle and March to the Fife', #27. I can add some other 19th century copies of the tune to his long list of references.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr req: The Rose Tree
From: Bruce O.
Date: 16 Mar 98 - 08:08 PM

That last is from my Irish tune notes and Bayard. In my Scots tune notes I see I've got the tune as "The lea rigg" in Brysson's 'Curious Collection" (1791) and from Gow's 'Strathspey Reels' Bk. 2, as 'The Old Lea Rig, or Rose Tree Strathspey'. Bayard takes this to be the antecedent to "Old Zip Coon/ Turkey in the Straw"
[The other Scots tune called "The lea rig" is better known as "My ain kind dearie"]


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr req: The Rose Tree
From: Jon W.
Date: 17 Mar 98 - 10:44 AM

The banjo book mentions that the song was featured in a play "The Poor Soldier Boy" by William Shield in the late 1700's, so I assume it's the one you mention, Bruce. Where can I get the lyrics?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: Lyr Add: A ROSE TREE
From: masato sakurai
Date: 11 Oct 03 - 12:52 AM

Two editions are at Levy:
Title: (1) A Rose Tree. (2) Cherokee Indian Death Song.
Composer, Lyricist, Arranger: na
Publication: Philadelphia: G.E. Blake, No. 13 South 5th Street, n.d..

Title: (1) A Rose Tree. (2) Mercy.
Composer, Lyricist, Arranger: na
Publication: n.p., n.d.: , .
A ROSE TREE

1. A Rose tree in full bearing,
Had sweet flowers fair to see,
One rose beyond comparing,
For beauty attracted me.

Tho' eager once to win it,
Lovely blooming fresh and gay;
I find a canker in it.
And now throw it far away.

2. How fine this morning early,
All was Sun shine clear and bright.
So late I lov'd you dearly,
Tho' lost now each fond delight.

The clouds seem big with showers,
Sunny beams no more are seen,
Farewell ye happy hours,
Your falshood has chang'd the scene (?).


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr req: The Rose Tree
From: masato sakurai
Date: 11 Oct 03 - 12:56 AM

Also found at Bodleian Library Broadside Ballads:

rose tree [title]

rose tree in full bearing [title]


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr req: The Rose Tree
From: masato sakurai
Date: 11 Oct 03 - 04:18 AM

The tune to "False Knight On The Road" by Steely Span (click here for sound clip) is a variant of the "Rose Tree."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr req: The Rose Tree
From: masato sakurai
Date: 26 Oct 03 - 06:18 PM

THE FALSE KNIGHT UPON THE ROAD (4) is in the DT. TUNE FILE: FALSKNT4.2 (midi) is the "Rose Tree" tune.

See also Steeleye Span: False Knight on the Road [notes & lyrics].

The most comprehensive study of this tune probably is Paul F. Wells and Anne Dhu McLucas's paper: "Musical Theater as a Link between Folk and Popular Traditions" [esp. Case Study No. 1: The Poor Soldier and "The Rose Tree", and Appendixes 1-2] in Vistas of American Music: Essays and Compositions in Honor of William K. Kearns, edited by Susan L. Porter and John Graziano (Warren, Michigan: Harmonie Park Press, 1999, pp. 100-107, 116-123). No lyrics included, though.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: Tune Add: THE ROSE TREE (Morris dance)
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 27 Oct 03 - 10:06 AM

The Rose Tree is also a morris dance tune - usually asociated with the Bampton Tradition. It's also used for social dancing.

%abc
X:1
T:Greencoats
M:4/4
C:
S:
N:c.f. The Rose Tree (Bampton)
A:Seabright
O:English
R:Reel
%P:A.(AB)$^5$
P:A.(AB)5
K:D
I:speed 400
P:A
fe | d2 B2 A2 FG | AB AF A2 FA | d2 cd e2 de | f2 e2 eg \
fe | d2 B2 A2 FG | AB AF A2 FA | d2 cd e2 de | f2 d2 d2 ||\
P:B
e2 | f2 e2 f2 g2 | a2 a2 g2 f2 | e2 b2 b3 a | b2 e2 eg \
fe | d2 B2 A2 FG | AB AF A2 FA | d2 cd e2 de | f2 d2 d2 ||


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr req: The Rose Tree
From: masato sakurai
Date: 28 Oct 03 - 03:58 AM

There're a lot of versions (without lyrics) at JC's ABC tune finder (Click here).


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr req: The Rose Tree
From: cetmst
Date: 28 Oct 03 - 07:12 AM

George Pullen Jackson in 'Spiritual Folk-Songs of Early America (1937), reproduces a hymn text from 'Knoxville Harmony' to the tune. He does not cite the author of this rather awkward poetry:
    There is a land of pleasure
    Where streams of joy forever roll;
    Tis there I have my treasure,
    And there I long to rest my soul.
    Long darkness lay around me
    With scarcely once a cheering ray,
    But since my Saviour found me,
    A lamp has shown along the way.

    My way is full of danger,
    But 'tis the path that leads to God,
    And like a faithful soldier
    I'll march along the heavenly road.
    Now I must gird my sword on,
    My breast plate, helmet and my shield,
    And fight the host of Satan,
    Until I reach the heav'nly field.

    I'm on my way to Zion,
    Still guided by my Saviour's hand,
    O come along dear sinners
    And see Emanuel's happy land.
    To all that stay behind me,
    I bid a long, a sad farewell.
    Come now or you'll repent it
    When you do reach the gates of hell.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr req: The Rose Tree
From: cetmst
Date: 28 Oct 03 - 09:41 AM

George Pullen Jackson's 'White Spirituals in the Southern Uplands' (1932)describes 'Knoxville Harmony' as compiled by a John B. Jackson in 1838, containing some works he claims were composed by him and some borrowings from 'Kentucky Harmonist'(1817). GPJ also notes other lyrics to the tune his grandmother learned from a hired girl in Monson Maine about 1859:

My grandma lived on yonder little green,
Finest old lady that ever was seen.
She often cautioned me with care,
Of all false young men to beware.
Timi timiumptum timiumpeta,
Of all false young men to beware.

In 'The World of Music Series, Song Programs for Youth' (1938)-
illustrations by N.C.Wyeth - there are lyrics by an Alice M. Cahill:

His Majesty rules England
And England rules the mighty sea.
The mayor rules the city,
But Tom rules 'neath the fair rose tree.

Cho:
He fiddles as we dance;
We bow and step, retreat, advance,
We swing and turn and follow
As Tom rules on the village green.

The steward rules the household,
The school's ruled by our master Dee.
Good parents rule us ever,
But Tom rules 'neath the fair rose tree.

Cho:


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr req: The Rose Tree
From: masato sakurai
Date: 28 Oct 03 - 10:04 AM

Two copies of "My Grandma's Advice" are at the Levy Collection.

(1) Title: My Grandma's Advice. Song.
Composer, Lyricist, Arranger: Words & Music by M. Arranged for the Piano by Edward Kanski.
Edward Kanski Publication: Boston: Oliver Ditson & Co., 277 Washington St., 1857.
First Line: My Grandma lives on yonder little green, Fine old lady as ever was seen
First Line of Chorus: Time i time tum time um pa ta

(2) Title: My Grandma's Advice. Song.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr req: The Rose Tree
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 28 Oct 03 - 12:26 PM

The tune is also found in Scotland and Northern England as Jockey's Grey Breeks, and under that name Robert Burns wrote his Again Rejoicing Nature Sees to it. A.P. Graves wrote new lyrics to it (The Rose Tree in Full Bearing), referring to it by one of its Irish names, Máirin ni Chullenain. An American broadside ballad, Hicks the Pirate, names The Rose Tree as tune.

Texts for these are transcribed at  South Riding Tunebook: Jockey's Grey Breeks.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr req: The Rose Tree
From: Jon W.
Date: 28 Oct 03 - 06:40 PM

Thanks all for the new leads on lyrics to this song. It continues to be one of my favorite tunes.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: Lyr Add: HICKS THE PIRATE
From: masato sakurai
Date: 29 Oct 03 - 05:10 AM

From American Memory:
HICKS THE PIRATE.
Air: The Rose Tree.

A mournful tale heart rending,
To you kind friends I will relate:
The solemn truth intending
Of three that met a tragic fate:
An Oyster Sloop was sailing
Upon the oceans sparkling tide,
In the heathful breeze regaling,
She moved upon the water's wide.

But upon this Oyster vessel,
A pirate bold had found his way,
With wicked heart this vassal
The captain and two boys did slay;
He seized the gold and silver,
Which this poor captain had in store;
His watch and clothes did pilter,
While he lay struggling in his gore.

He overboard soon threw them,
The murder'd boys and captain too:
The briney deep enclos'd them,
And they were quickly gone from view;
But the eye that never slumbers,
Did follow on the murderer's track;
And the Vigilance of numbers
To justice brought the monster back.

In a boat he left the vessel,
When he the wicked deed had done;
And soon the murderous rascal
Had far into the country gone;
He soon was overtaken,
And to New York was brought again
A lonely wretch forsaken,
Who had the boys and captain slain.

By a true and faithful jury,
He was found guilty of the crime;
Some rav'd and curs'd like fury,
But he met his fate in time;
'Twixt heaven and earth suspended,
On Bedloe's Island Hicks was hung.
Some thousands there attended,
To see the horrid murderer swung.

H. DE. MARSAN
PUBLISHER OF SONGS AND BALLADS
PAPER DOLLS TOY BOOKS &C.
38 & 60 CHATHAM ST N.Y. [n.d.]


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr req: The Rose Tree
From: GUEST,Mary Van Deusen
Date: 24 Feb 04 - 09:09 AM

I'm looking for help to correct an 18th century mss of A Rose Tree in Full Bearing with as little modification to the original as possible. At the moment, the transcribed score and midi are at:
http://www.henrylivingston.com/music/p123.htm

and the original page is at:
http://www.henrylivingston.com/music/images/musicmss/p123since-1100.jpg

As soon as I correct the song, I'll be taking down the original manuscript scan.

Thanks for any help you can give.

Mary

Mary S. Van Deusen


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr req: The Rose Tree
From: GUEST,Mary Van Deusen
Date: 24 Feb 04 - 11:38 AM

I've got a correction to the song. My thanks.

Mary


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr req: The Rose Tree
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 24 Feb 04 - 11:51 AM

Do let us know what it was. I can see three obvious ways of dealing with the problem, but I don't know which would be preferable.

The site looks interesting and I shall have to look more at it. Some of the information on the Rose Tree page might usefully be modified, though.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr req: The Rose Tree
From: GUEST,Yuanji Fan from China
Date: 08 Apr 04 - 09:41 AM

Dear Sir:
Recently I'm reserching a Piano Variation of Scottish tunes-"Lea-Rigg", the composer is Alexander Rienagle. I want to know What's the Lea Rigg means? Is that a place or a man's name? or others meaning?
I so sorry to trouble you.
Best wishes!

Piano Professor
Yuanjin Fan


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr req: The Rose Tree
From: masato sakurai
Date: 08 Apr 04 - 11:03 AM

lea-rig is "ridge of unploughed grass between arable ridges."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Rose Tree
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Oct 12 - 02:05 PM

As a child in Missouri, Douglas County, Oregon pioneer Jesse A. Applegate (1835-1919) learned "The Rose Tree in Full Bearing" from an old American soldier named Alexander "Uncle Mack" McClellan. McClellan drowned while unsuccessfully attempting to save the life of two children, after their boat capsized at the Great Falls of the Columbia River, during the family's migration to Oregon in 1843.

-_A Day With The Cow Column_ by Jesse A. Applegate, Ye Galleon Press, Fairfield, WA (1934)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Rose Tree
From: GUEST,luckylcs
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 02:44 PM

Norman Kennedy sings "The Fause Knight Upon the Road" to this tune on his album "Ballads & Songs Of Scotland"


Oh where are you going?
Says the false knight upon the road.
I'm going to me school.
Says the wee boy and still he stood.
        What is on your back?
        Says the false knight upon the road.
        Me bundles and me books
        Says the wee boy and still he stood.

I came a walking by your door
Says the false knight upon the road.
That lay in your way
Says the wee boy and still he stood.
        I flung your dog a stone
        Says the false knight upon the road.
        I wish it was a bone
        Says the wee boy and still he stood.

Oh what sheep and cattles that
Says the false knight upon the road.
They're mine and me fathers
Says the wee boy and still he stood.
        And how many shall be mine?
        Says the false knight upon the road.
        The ones that have the blue tail
        Says the wee boy and still he stood.

Oh can I get a share of them?
Says the false knight upon the road.
You cannot get a share of them
Says the wee boy and still he stood.
        Why the stick all in your hand?
        Says the false knight upon the road.
        To keep me from all cold and harm
        Says the wee boy and still he stood.

Oh I wish you were in yon tree
Says the false knight upon the road.
And a ladder under me
Says the wee boy and still he stood.
        The ladder it'll break
        Says the false knight upon the road
        And you dor to fall down
        Says the wee boy and still he stood.

I wish you were on yon sea
Says the false knight upon the road.
A good boat under me
Says the wee boy and still he stood.
        The boat will surely sink
        Says the false knight upon the road
        And you for to be drowned
        Says the wee boy and still he stood.

Has your mother more than you
Says the false knight upon the road.
None of them for you.
Says the wee boy and still he stood.
        I think I hear a bell
        Says the false knight upon the road
        It's ringing you to hell
        Says the wee boy and still he stood.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Rose Tree
From: Martha Burns
Date: 20 Sep 13 - 12:51 AM

The text from George Pullen Jackson is by Alexander Campbell, a major figure of the American Great Awakening. He's best known now as founder of the Disciples of Christ.
See this link on Campbell's text.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
  Share Thread:
More...

Reply to Thread
Subject:  Help
From:
Preview   Automatic Linebreaks   Make a link ("blue clicky")


Mudcat time: 22 September 7:04 PM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.