Subject: Lyr req: The Rose Tree From: Jon W. Date: 16 Mar 98 - 05:54 PM I bought a clawhammer banjo book the other day which has a tune in it under the name "The Rose Tree". The note says it dates from the mid 18th century and is known wherever English is spoken. It is called "Portlairge" in Ireland (I'm familiar with this from the singing of the Clancy Bros., who do it in Gaelic) and "False Knight on the Road" in Scotland. The last seems to be Child #3, of which there are four versions (at least) in the DT, but none of the tunes there match this one. Does anyone know if there are English words to this, either a "False Knight" that matches the tune, or words that match the title "The Rose Tree", or both? PS. It also seems to be closely related to another tune in the book call "Grand Old Dame Britannia." |
Subject: RE: Lyr req: The Rose Tree From: Susan of DT Date: 16 Mar 98 - 07:28 PM no rose trees in child 3 in Child or Bronson or in Child's index |
Subject: RE: Lyr req: The Rose Tree From: Bruce O. Date: 16 Mar 98 - 07:50 PM "A rose tree in full bearing" is a song by John O'Keeffe in 'The Poor Soldier", 1783. The tune was an old one called, found in Scots collections as "The Gimblet" in Oswald's CPC, bk. 10, p. 17 (I have a copy of this). It was also called "The old lea rigg" and in bk. 1 of Aird's Airs (c 1778) it is called 'The Dainty Besom Maker". Thomas Moore used it for his cong commencing "I'd mourn the hopes" in 'A Selection of Irish Melodies', #5, 1813, and the tune was printed in New York in 1814 in 'Riley's Flute Melodies". According to Alfred Moffat the tune is in the Thompson's '24 Country dances for the Year 1764' under the title "The Irish Lilt" (A generic title, I have 2 more of this title that aren't "Rose tree"). Most of these and other titles, like the Irish "Little Mary Cullenan" and "Little Sheila Connellan", are in S. P. Baryard's 'Dance to the Fiddle and March to the Fife', #27. I can add some other 19th century copies of the tune to his long list of references.
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Subject: RE: Lyr req: The Rose Tree From: Bruce O. Date: 16 Mar 98 - 08:08 PM That last is from my Irish tune notes and Bayard. In my Scots tune notes I see I've got the tune as "The lea rigg" in Brysson's 'Curious Collection" (1791) and from Gow's 'Strathspey Reels' Bk. 2, as 'The Old Lea Rig, or Rose Tree Strathspey'. Bayard takes this to be the antecedent to "Old Zip Coon/ Turkey in the Straw" [The other Scots tune called "The lea rig" is better known as "My ain kind dearie"] |
Subject: RE: Lyr req: The Rose Tree From: Jon W. Date: 17 Mar 98 - 10:44 AM The banjo book mentions that the song was featured in a play "The Poor Soldier Boy" by William Shield in the late 1700's, so I assume it's the one you mention, Bruce. Where can I get the lyrics? |
Subject: Lyr Add: A ROSE TREE From: masato sakurai Date: 11 Oct 03 - 12:52 AM Two editions are at Levy: Title: (1) A Rose Tree. (2) Cherokee Indian Death Song.A ROSE TREE 1. A Rose tree in full bearing, Had sweet flowers fair to see, One rose beyond comparing, For beauty attracted me. Tho' eager once to win it, Lovely blooming fresh and gay; I find a canker in it. And now throw it far away. 2. How fine this morning early, All was Sun shine clear and bright. So late I lov'd you dearly, Tho' lost now each fond delight. The clouds seem big with showers, Sunny beams no more are seen, Farewell ye happy hours, Your falshood has chang'd the scene (?). |
Subject: RE: Lyr req: The Rose Tree From: masato sakurai Date: 11 Oct 03 - 12:56 AM Also found at Bodleian Library Broadside Ballads: rose tree [title] rose tree in full bearing [title] |
Subject: RE: Lyr req: The Rose Tree From: masato sakurai Date: 11 Oct 03 - 04:18 AM The tune to "False Knight On The Road" by Steely Span (click here for sound clip) is a variant of the "Rose Tree." |
Subject: RE: Lyr req: The Rose Tree From: masato sakurai Date: 26 Oct 03 - 06:18 PM THE FALSE KNIGHT UPON THE ROAD (4) is in the DT. TUNE FILE: FALSKNT4.2 (midi) is the "Rose Tree" tune. See also Steeleye Span: False Knight on the Road [notes & lyrics]. The most comprehensive study of this tune probably is Paul F. Wells and Anne Dhu McLucas's paper: "Musical Theater as a Link between Folk and Popular Traditions" [esp. Case Study No. 1: The Poor Soldier and "The Rose Tree", and Appendixes 1-2] in Vistas of American Music: Essays and Compositions in Honor of William K. Kearns, edited by Susan L. Porter and John Graziano (Warren, Michigan: Harmonie Park Press, 1999, pp. 100-107, 116-123). No lyrics included, though. |
Subject: Tune Add: THE ROSE TREE (Morris dance) From: Dave Bryant Date: 27 Oct 03 - 10:06 AM The Rose Tree is also a morris dance tune - usually asociated with the Bampton Tradition. It's also used for social dancing. %abc X:1 T:Greencoats M:4/4 C: S: N:c.f. The Rose Tree (Bampton) A:Seabright O:English R:Reel %P:A.(AB)$^5$ P:A.(AB)5 K:D I:speed 400 P:A fe | d2 B2 A2 FG | AB AF A2 FA | d2 cd e2 de | f2 e2 eg \ fe | d2 B2 A2 FG | AB AF A2 FA | d2 cd e2 de | f2 d2 d2 ||\ P:B e2 | f2 e2 f2 g2 | a2 a2 g2 f2 | e2 b2 b3 a | b2 e2 eg \ fe | d2 B2 A2 FG | AB AF A2 FA | d2 cd e2 de | f2 d2 d2 || |
Subject: RE: Lyr req: The Rose Tree From: masato sakurai Date: 28 Oct 03 - 03:58 AM There're a lot of versions (without lyrics) at JC's ABC tune finder (Click here). |
Subject: Lyr Add: THERE IS A LAND OF PLEASURE From: cetmst Date: 28 Oct 03 - 07:12 AM George Pullen Jackson in 'Spiritual Folk-Songs of Early America (1937), reproduces a hymn text from 'Knoxville Harmony' to the tune. He does not cite the author of this rather awkward poetry:
Where streams of joy forever roll; Tis there I have my treasure, And there I long to rest my soul. Long darkness lay around me With scarcely once a cheering ray, But since my Saviour found me, A lamp has shown along the way. My way is full of danger, But 'tis the path that leads to God, And like a faithful soldier I'll march along the heavenly road. Now I must gird my sword on, My breast plate, helmet and my shield, And fight the host of Satan, Until I reach the heav'nly field. I'm on my way to Zion, Still guided by my Saviour's hand, O come along dear sinners And see Emanuel's happy land. To all that stay behind me, I bid a long, a sad farewell. Come now or you'll repent it When you do reach the gates of hell. |
Subject: RE: Lyr req: The Rose Tree From: cetmst Date: 28 Oct 03 - 09:41 AM George Pullen Jackson's 'White Spirituals in the Southern Uplands' (1932)describes 'Knoxville Harmony' as compiled by a John B. Jackson in 1838, containing some works he claims were composed by him and some borrowings from 'Kentucky Harmonist'(1817). GPJ also notes other lyrics to the tune his grandmother learned from a hired girl in Monson Maine about 1859: My grandma lived on yonder little green, Finest old lady that ever was seen. She often cautioned me with care, Of all false young men to beware. Timi timiumptum timiumpeta, Of all false young men to beware. In 'The World of Music Series, Song Programs for Youth' (1938)- illustrations by N.C.Wyeth - there are lyrics by an Alice M. Cahill: His Majesty rules England And England rules the mighty sea. The mayor rules the city, But Tom rules 'neath the fair rose tree. Cho: He fiddles as we dance; We bow and step, retreat, advance, We swing and turn and follow As Tom rules on the village green. The steward rules the household, The school's ruled by our master Dee. Good parents rule us ever, But Tom rules 'neath the fair rose tree. Cho: |
Subject: RE: Lyr req: The Rose Tree From: masato sakurai Date: 28 Oct 03 - 10:04 AM Two copies of "My Grandma's Advice" are at the Levy Collection. (1) Title: My Grandma's Advice. Song. Composer, Lyricist, Arranger: Words & Music by M. Arranged for the Piano by Edward Kanski. Edward Kanski Publication: Boston: Oliver Ditson & Co., 277 Washington St., 1857. First Line: My Grandma lives on yonder little green, Fine old lady as ever was seen First Line of Chorus: Time i time tum time um pa ta (2) Title: My Grandma's Advice. Song. |
Subject: RE: Lyr req: The Rose Tree From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 28 Oct 03 - 12:26 PM The tune is also found in Scotland and Northern England as Jockey's Grey Breeks, and under that name Robert Burns wrote his Again Rejoicing Nature Sees to it. A.P. Graves wrote new lyrics to it (The Rose Tree in Full Bearing), referring to it by one of its Irish names, Máirin ni Chullenain. An American broadside ballad, Hicks the Pirate, names The Rose Tree as tune. Texts for these are transcribed at South Riding Tunebook: Jockey's Grey Breeks. |
Subject: RE: Lyr req: The Rose Tree From: Jon W. Date: 28 Oct 03 - 06:40 PM Thanks all for the new leads on lyrics to this song. It continues to be one of my favorite tunes. |
Subject: Lyr Add: HICKS THE PIRATE From: masato sakurai Date: 29 Oct 03 - 05:10 AM From American Memory: HICKS THE PIRATE. |
Subject: RE: Lyr req: The Rose Tree From: GUEST,Mary Van Deusen Date: 24 Feb 04 - 09:09 AM I'm looking for help to correct an 18th century mss of A Rose Tree in Full Bearing with as little modification to the original as possible. At the moment, the transcribed score and midi are at: http://www.henrylivingston.com/music/p123.htm and the original page is at: http://www.henrylivingston.com/music/images/musicmss/p123since-1100.jpg As soon as I correct the song, I'll be taking down the original manuscript scan. Thanks for any help you can give. Mary Mary S. Van Deusen |
Subject: RE: Lyr req: The Rose Tree From: GUEST,Mary Van Deusen Date: 24 Feb 04 - 11:38 AM I've got a correction to the song. My thanks. Mary |
Subject: RE: Lyr req: The Rose Tree From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 24 Feb 04 - 11:51 AM Do let us know what it was. I can see three obvious ways of dealing with the problem, but I don't know which would be preferable. The site looks interesting and I shall have to look more at it. Some of the information on the Rose Tree page might usefully be modified, though. |
Subject: RE: Lyr req: The Rose Tree From: GUEST,Yuanji Fan from China Date: 08 Apr 04 - 09:41 AM Dear Sir: Recently I'm reserching a Piano Variation of Scottish tunes-"Lea-Rigg", the composer is Alexander Rienagle. I want to know What's the Lea Rigg means? Is that a place or a man's name? or others meaning? I so sorry to trouble you. Best wishes! Piano Professor Yuanjin Fan |
Subject: RE: Lyr req: The Rose Tree From: masato sakurai Date: 08 Apr 04 - 11:03 AM lea-rig is "ridge of unploughed grass between arable ridges." |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Rose Tree From: GUEST Date: 24 Oct 12 - 02:05 PM As a child in Missouri, Douglas County, Oregon pioneer Jesse A. Applegate (1835-1919) learned "The Rose Tree in Full Bearing" from an old American soldier named Alexander "Uncle Mack" McClellan. McClellan drowned while unsuccessfully attempting to save the life of two children, after their boat capsized at the Great Falls of the Columbia River, during the family's migration to Oregon in 1843. -_A Day With The Cow Column_ by Jesse A. Applegate, Ye Galleon Press, Fairfield, WA (1934) |
Subject: Lyr Add: THE FALSE KNIGHT UPON THE ROAD From: GUEST,luckylcs Date: 28 Jul 13 - 02:44 PM Norman Kennedy sings "The Fause Knight Upon the Road" to this tune on his album "Ballads & Songs Of Scotland" Oh where are you going? Says the false knight upon the road. I'm going to me school. Says the wee boy and still he stood.
What is on your back?
I came a walking by your door
I flung your dog a stone
Oh what sheep and cattles that
And how many shall be mine?
Oh can I get a share of them?
Why the stick all in your hand?
Oh I wish you were in yon tree
The ladder it'll break
I wish you were on yon sea
The boat will surely sink
Has your mother more than you
I think I hear a bell |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Rose Tree From: Martha Burns Date: 20 Sep 13 - 12:51 AM The text from George Pullen Jackson is by Alexander Campbell, a major figure of the American Great Awakening. He's best known now as founder of the Disciples of Christ. See this link on Campbell's text. |
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