Arm seizes up mid-tune

Subject: Arm seizes up mid-tune
From: Bardford
Date: 08 Feb 02 - 02:50 PM

I was playing the bodhran the other night- For those of you who are still reading - I was playing the bodhran the other night during a session/gig with a couple of fiddle players. These youngsters like to kick it up a notch, which can be fun and challenging. We'd just started our third set of the night, and were midway through a set of moderately-paced reels when my stick arm seemed to get quite heavy and tight. Almost to the point where I couldn't maintain the rhythm, let alone control the stick with any finesse. You know when your leg falls asleep? Kinda like that without the tingly bits. No pain or discomfort, just a dead weight.

I got through the set of tunes which I thought would never end, did a bit of stretching, shook the arm out, and things were fine after that.

My playing is not generally forced or stressful - usually it is loose and relaxed, so this was surprising and unusual. Different from the arm fatigue that can happen after a long night of fast tunes.

I'd be interested to hear if anyone has had similar experience. Bodhran jokes not neccessary, but (sigh) expected. What the hey, it's Friday.

Cheers,
Bardford

Subject: RE: Arm seizes up mid-tune
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Feb 02 - 02:58 PM

Sounds like a circulation/heart problem

Go and see your doc asap

Subject: RE: Arm seizes up mid-tune
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 08 Feb 02 - 03:10 PM

Could be a carple tunnle kinda thing... Happens to me very rarely, when I've been on the computer a lot on the day of a gig, and only then during LONG killer fast songs...

I drop out to 'shots' for a few bars, and inbetween give my arm a quick stretch or a bit of a shake in a different direction than I've been playing in...

Time it just right, and the audience thinks yer doing it on purpose! LOL!!!!!

Subject: RE: Arm seizes up mid-tune
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 08 Feb 02 - 03:23 PM

Advice to see your doctor is good. The heaviness you describe is probably a sign that your circulation was not up to moving the "products of combustion" out of the muscle as fast as you were making them.

Note that the artery that feeds the end of the arm passes near the surface and amongst a bunch of muscles and other stuff right at the inside of the elbow. Find it by feeling for a pulse with the arm straight.

If you were holding the tipple a little high, so that you had more than the usual bend at the elbow, you may have just suffered a "positional impairment of circulation." Any activity where the elbow doesn't move around a bit can cause it. It's not too uncommon after long sessions of "mousing" at the computer for some people.

It does seem to become more common with age (let's call that "growing up") and if it happens repeatedly, can be a symptom of a less than healthy circulatory system; so it does bear checking out. Of course there are other and more serious causes of reduced circulation that also should be eliminated.

John

Subject: RE: Arm seizes up mid-tune
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 08 Feb 02 - 03:44 PM

Excellent advice, John. Once the doctor has ruled out serious problems like a "transient ischemic attack" (temporary diminished blood supply to part of the motor center in the brain, which sounds like it's very UNlikely in this situation) or a generalized circulatory problem, you might consider seeing a physical medicine specialist (a/k/a PM&R physician or physiatrist--this is an MD, and not to be confused with a physical therapist or physiotherapist) or an occupational therapist who works with musicians. Could be this is the result of time-related changes in the areas the nerve goes through, as suggested above. In which case, specific therapy or altering your playing position would probably help.

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: Arm seizes up mid-tune
From: catspaw49
Date: 08 Feb 02 - 04:18 PM

I think your problem may be muscle spasms as a result of overuse. On the day of your next session either forego cranking your tool that day or start wanking with the other hand. Allow your tipper arm to rest.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Arm seizes up mid-tune
From: Bardford
Date: 08 Feb 02 - 04:26 PM

Thanks all for your replies. Clinton, I'd considered the carpal-tunnel aspect, 'cuz I really 'break' my wrist when playing - but this event didn't isolate at that spot. I have been slowly modifying my playing in order to forestall any carpal tunnel issues. I know what you mean about those long killer tunes - I get "creatively selective" about my drumming when tiredness sets in during those times. This was different.

Guest, John and Mark - thanks. I assumed this was a circulatory issue. Let's hope it was a "positional impairment of circulation," rather than anything more ominous, like a TIA, although, given family history, that wouldn't be too surprising.

I will visit my doctor, and perhaps explore a consult with a physical medicine specialist. Do you know Mark, if there is a different designation for such in Canada? We have quite a few sports medicine docs here in Calgary, (How many Calgarians does it take to change a light bulb? Lots. One to change the lightbulb and the rest to talk about how great the 1988 Olympics were:)and I know a few occupational therapists, so can access help that way too. I'll post follow up as I learn anything.

Again, I appreciate your input.

Cheers, Bardford

Subject: RE: Arm seizes up mid-tune
From: Bardford
Date: 08 Feb 02 - 04:33 PM

Jeez, Spaw. You'd think I was a rookie, fer gawd sake. The day-of-gig-hand-switch is one of the first things they teach at Goat Whack U.

Subject: RE: Arm seizes up mid-tune
From: gnu
Date: 08 Feb 02 - 06:14 PM

N'ere you mind to raise my taxes by goin to the medicare doc ! Now, I won't go into the details of the calcium deficiency which causes the sarcoplasmic reticulum in the mitochondria to malfunction in rapid muscle movement, I'll just tell you this : drink a tall glass of skim milk and wait twenty minutes. Then, start with a slow song and build up. Soon and sure enough, you be skinning with the likes of Mance Brady and Colm Murphy... maybe even gnu.

Subject: RE: Arm seizes up mid-tune
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 08 Feb 02 - 07:10 PM

gnu, you trying for a Googlewhack there? Sarcoplasmic reticulum, indeed! Actually, from the symptoms Bardford described, primary muscle fatigue wouldn't be highest on my list...but I've been wrong before.

It's not a commonly-known specialty, Bardford, but the synonyms used here in the Southland are Physiatry, Physical Medicine, Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation, or PM&R. I'll ask my physiatrist friend if she knows any Canadianisms. Where in the GWN are you? She may have a directory.

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: Arm seizes up mid-tune
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 08 Feb 02 - 07:13 PM

Oops. Read the damn post, Mark! OK, I'll find out.

Subject: RE: Arm seizes up mid-tune
From: Tweed
Date: 08 Feb 02 - 07:56 PM

Yer just cramping up somewhat and need to eat some bananas or take some potassium tabs before the work out on that...bodhran. Get some exercise too! Happens all the time in hot climates after you sweat out too many minerals, could be the same thing happening while playing your....what the heck is that thing? A drum? ...okay, okay...I'll go look it up......

Subject: RE: Arm seizes up mid-tune
From: Dave Wynn
Date: 08 Feb 02 - 08:15 PM

Very occasionally I get something similar but mine is a cramping of the wrist (no jokes please). I just ignore it till I can't play then have a rest. It happens so rarely that it doesn't worry me.

Mind you I don't play a bodhran but I have been told that my melodeon playing is very similar to a bodhran. :-)

Spot

Subject: RE: Arm seizes up mid-tune
From: gnu
Date: 09 Feb 02 - 05:39 AM

Tweed... bananas or take some potassium tabs... yes, and if you want faster results, with milk. Potassium, calcium, and others are required to provide the changing of electrical charges which signal the change in muscle movements.

Of course, you have to practice EVERY day. But be very careful... when it starts to hurt, slow down or stop. The build up of acid in the muscles from pushing yourself too far is not good for you.

Even worse, you may be experiencing pain in the tendons and ligaments. If you irritate the sheath of a ligament, you can cause a swelling called a ganglion. While the ganglion may not be painful, if it swells to a large enough size, it can block blood flow at the joint. If you think you can't play very long now, one of these puppies will shut you down for sure. I know from experience. The only avoidance advice I can give you is do not Hran for one hour after any strenuous wrist exercise, such as shovelling snow. This, combined with a long and lively session cost me a year of recovery without my drums, and I still can't play like I used to.

Subject: RE: Arm seizes up mid-tune
From: JeZeBeL
Date: 09 Feb 02 - 09:40 AM

Now, then, I'm a bodhran player too....yes and I ENJOY IT!! Last year in May i was at a festival in whitby, and have never played so much or so fast in all my life. My arm nearly dropped off and I was in severe pain. I went to the hospital and was told I had repetitive strain injury, it is very common in bodhran players due o the wrist and arm movement..no dirty comments please. What I used was arnica tablets and tiger balm. You press on your arm to find where the knots are and rub the balm in there. It is quite expensive, but works very well as by massaging it you loosen and release all the knots that are in your arm. The doctor gave me anti inflammatories and a tubigrip and told me not to play for four months..I nearly pulled him over the table by the collar and thumped him in the face. I told him that it was festival season and that I was not going to stop playing for four months. I carried on playing through the pain and suffering and got a good friend tig to help me out with it. It is perfectly fine at the moment although I do still get the odd painfull twinge, so I just shake my arm around a bit and carry on.

Just take it easy, and my advice is don't listen to your doc, they're no good with musicians!!

Keep up playing, it rocks.

Jez.

PS are you a uk catter...where abouts?

Subject: RE: Arm seizes up mid-tune
From: Desdemona
Date: 09 Feb 02 - 09:59 AM

Jez---I'm picturing a hospital emergency ward full of grim-faced doctors looking meaningfully at one another, saying things like, "We've got another bodhran injury in Room #3; it's the 9th one tonight!" "Yes, I know...such a senseless, dangerous waste!"

LOL!

Subject: RE: Arm seizes up mid-tune
From: GUEST,Bardford avec no cookie
Date: 09 Feb 02 - 11:29 AM

Hey again, all. Just to clarify, Gnu, this ain't a fatigue issue. This happened the first song of the set. If it was the last tune of the last set, maybe. And it hasn't happened before. Long, fast sessions are no stranger to this tipper-flickin' fella. You may have a point, though, about making another unnecessary visit to my doctor -the other day he told me he thinks I'm a hypochondriac. Why, I asks. Well, to start with, I have this note here from your gynecologist...

I drink milk and eat bananas. As well as other things of course, but I wouldn't think that calcium and potassium are at the root of this issue. Nor exercise, although I'm wondering if the fact that I had worked out with light weights earlier that day might have contributed.

Spot - do you hit a melodeon with a stick? :-)

Tweed - yup, it's a drum. A much maligned and misunderstood musical instrument. A modest instrument whose simple construction implies wrongly an easy path to it's mastery. A drum which should not be ridiculed and shunned, nor abused or made fun of. Nay, the bodhran should take its place in the pantheon of legitimate musical instruments, alongside the accordian, the banjo, the zither, the bongo and the autoharp, and it should be venerated. And it should be on a stamp.

Jez - be careful with RSI. Have you changed your playing style at all to alleviate the discomfort? I'm in Canada, but I have ancestors buried and distant relatives living in UK.

And Desdemona, a recent study shows most of the bodhran players in the ER here had been hit with flying beer bottles. Less frequent, but still statistically significant was the "accidental" fiddle bow tip in the eye. And don't get me started on the number of sarcoplastic reticulumectomies that have occurred.

Cheers all, Bardford

Subject: RE: Arm seizes up mid-tune
From: Desdemona
Date: 09 Feb 02 - 11:35 AM

Ah....but you knew the risks when you became a folk musician ;~) !

Subject: RE: Arm seizes up mid-tune
From: Tweed
Date: 09 Feb 02 - 01:15 PM

I'll bet the small weights had somethin to do with it, especially if you did a lot of reps. You're probably fine, unless you've somehow contracted the dreaded bodhranus despiculosis parasite. I did a google search on this one and apparently the host will only feel discomfort during the first stages when the little bastards are reproducing;~) Drink your milk and no more worries. I get the same thing when playing guitar sometimes in the summertime. I've had my thumbs and index fingers seize up before. Course the beers bring out the sweat and the mineral loss too.

Subject: RE: Arm seizes up mid-tune
From: gnu
Date: 09 Feb 02 - 01:53 PM

Well, light weightS shouldn't hurt. But if your doing too many reps with A light weight... any hair growing on your palm... palmS, if you're talented ?

Seriously, don't mix any other exercise with The Hran. It's a killer. Unfortunately, I believe you are from the GWN, so that may be impossible. Hell, I had to shovel a bit of snow today... and it's not snowing... it's blowing. Happy hour session is but two hours away. But I'll be fine because I'm drinking my milk. I use a special mixture just before a session... one part skim milk, one part Kalua... Khalua... Kaluha... Tia Maria, and two parts Woods Navy. Kinda makes shovelling fun, too.

Subject: RE: Arm seizes up mid-tune
From: GUEST,Bardford
Date: 09 Feb 02 - 02:08 PM

Gnu, yer milk perscriptions are getting better and better!

Subject: RE: Arm seizes up mid-tune
From: MAG
Date: 09 Feb 02 - 04:34 PM

Any chance you are diabetic? Had any episodes of adhesive capsulitis? SOunds like that, but they are usually in the shoulder. -- MA

Subject: RE: Arm seizes up mid-tune
From: Tweed
Date: 09 Feb 02 - 06:03 PM

Well...I'm off to SuperCuts...

Subject: RE: Arm seizes up mid-tune
From: Dave Wynn
Date: 09 Feb 02 - 06:47 PM

Bardford,

Hell no. Hitting a melodeon with a stick is no use at all. I use a lead pipe. inch and a half is OK but for the best vibrato I prefer a 2 inch derbyshire lead pipe.

I have tried 4 by 2 wood but it doesn't have the impact so I revert to my good ole derbyshire lead.

Some of the better melodeon players have moved to chain saw for the vibrato and Kangol for the general playing but we are talking about the masters here.

Till I get to that standard I will stick with the lead.

Spot.

Subject: RE: Arm seizes up mid-tune
From: Deckman
Date: 09 Feb 02 - 11:18 PM

Skimming these notes forces me to comment ... there's gotta' be a murder ballad in here somewhere. CHEERS, Bob

Subject: RE: Arm seizes up mid-tune
From: Bert
Date: 10 Feb 02 - 03:19 AM

Sounds like what we used to call wankers cramp. Which is just you arm telling you that you are doing it too much. Our Gnu has it right. Slow down you silly bugger, before Aine reads the thread and starts a song contest.

Subject: RE: Arm seizes up mid-tune
From: GUEST,C-flat
Date: 10 Feb 02 - 05:01 AM

I'm with "spot the dog" on this,although a 10pound hammer is my chosen "beater".A few minutes with the hammer should permanently cure Bardfords troubles!

Subject: RE: Arm seizes up mid-tune
From: 53
Date: 10 Feb 02 - 05:03 PM

I was cleaning the vinyl siding of my home yesterday, and my arm seems to be doing the same thing, only though its only my left arm, and it feels weak, sore and tired, with no strength in it. I hope that this will pass in a few days cause it's affecting my ability to play my guitar.

Subject: RE: Arm seizes up mid-tune
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 10 Feb 02 - 05:10 PM

"this ain't a fatigue issue. This happened the first song of the set."

Hey ya... umm... I got a question... What are you doing to warm up? Stretch out a bit... shake yer hands to ge thte blood down to 'em and warm 'em up... clentch and open yer fists.. all good ideas maybe?

Donno till ya try eh...

.-)