Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday

Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday
From: Matthew Edwards
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 07:33 AM

Thanks to Chrissie, vectis and Noreen for reviving this topic.
There are several threads discussing the song, and it seems to be a matter of luck as to which one turns up in a Google or other search.

As I live in Bebington in Wirral I can state that there isn't any location known as "Bebington Bush", and to the best of my knowledge there never has been. As a mainly suburban area it wouldn't have been a prime spot for a street entertainer to work. So far as I've been able to discover all the memories of Seth Davy are associated with Liverpool, and although the song does mention New Brighton Pier I haven't yet seen any evidence that Seth Davy performed there.

The "Pivvy" could be a reference to the Pavilion, but some singers sing the words as "Tivvy" - a reference to the Tivoli Palace of Varieties in Lime Street, Liverpool.

I did mention in another thread on this song Lyr Req: Whiskey on a Sunday that the late Fritz Spiegl had found an old magic lantern slide showing a street scene outside the Bevington Bush Hotel from the late 19th century. This shows an elderly black man seated on some sort of box playing a set of jig dolls on a plank and surrounded by children. I've now seen the original slide which is labelled "Davy" and I hope to be able to publish it soon with the owner's consent. I'm sure that Glyn Hughes must have seen this slide, or a picture based on it, when he wrote the song since the scene exactly matches the first verse:-

"He sat at the corner of Bevington Bush
Astride an old packing case
And the dolls on the end of his plank went dancing
As he crooned with a smile on his face."

Matthew Edwards

Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday
From: Brakn
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 08:38 AM

I get the feeling that his real name was not "Seth Dav(e)y" He doesn't appear on the 1901 census and no-one is registered as dying called that name around that period.

There is a Thomas Henry Davies born West Indies in 1860 living as a pauper in Toxteth Park Workhouse in 1901.

Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday
From: GUEST,Big Elk
Date: 30 Jun 09 - 12:24 PM

If she is still with us try and contact Jackie Mc Donald who used to be 1/2 of Jackie and Bridie. 4 years ago she was involved with the Chester Folk Club.

She is a walking encyclopedia

Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday
From: GUEST,ChrisJBrady
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 11:31 AM

Quote "I did mention in another thread on this song Lyr Req: Whiskey on a Sunday that the late Fritz Spiegl had found an old magic lantern slide showing a street scene outside the Bevington Bush Hotel from the late 19th century. This shows an elderly black man seated on some sort of box playing a set of jig dolls on a plank and surrounded by children. I've now seen the original slide which is labelled "Davy" and I hope to be able to publish it soon with the owner's consent. I'm sure that Glyn Hughes must have seen this slide, or a picture based on it, when he wrote the song since the scene exactly matches the first verse:-

"He sat at the corner of Bevington Bush
Astride an old packing case
And the dolls on the end of his plank went dancing
As he crooned with a smile on his face."

Matthew Edwards" Unquote.

I wonder if there is a view of this slide on the web please, or did it ever get published? Many thanks - Chris B.

Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday
From: GUEST,ChrisJBrady
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 11:51 AM

Folks may be interested in my new page:

http://chrisbrady.itgo.com/jigdolls/jigdolls.htm

Chris B.

Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday
From: GUEST,Graham Sugdon
Date: 09 Mar 10 - 02:46 PM

i was playing/ singing whiskey on a Sunday in a pub in St Abbs in 1976 after i finished a man came to me thanked me for my rendition of the song and introduced me to his elderly mother who could remember sitting and watching Seth Davy .
My father Bernard (1926 - 2007)made a dancing doll and used to have it dancing whilst i sang and played at family gatherings .
i still perform this song today and always enjoy the song, my fathers doll is residing in the loft and has never been dancing since he died .

Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday
From: GUEST,Tom Campbell
Date: 12 Feb 12 - 06:27 PM

I learned this from a guy in the Fox & Vivian folk club in Leamington Spa in the 1970's.

Sep Davey.

He sat on the corner of Bebbington Bush Astride of an old packing case And the dolls on the end of a plank went dancing as he crooned with a smile on his face.

Chorus: Come day go day, wishing me heart for Sunday, Drinking Buttermilk all the week Whisky on a Sunday.

His tired old hand beat the wooden seat and the puppet dolls they danced so gear, A better show than you never have seen At the Pivvy or New Brighton Pier

Chorus.

Well in 1905, old Sep Davey died And his songs was heard no more And the three dancing dolls In a jowlie was ended And the plank went to mend a back door.

Chorus.

Now on cold stormy nights Down Scottie Road way When the wind howls up from the sea You can still hear the voice of old Sep Davey As he croons to his dancing dolls three.

Chorus.

Gear = Good Jowlie = Dustbin Pivvy = The Pavilion Theatre Scottie Road = Scotland Road

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Whiskey on a Sunday
From: GUEST,Don Meade
Date: 12 Jan 13 - 10:37 AM

Here's the photo of Seth Davey:

http://aliverpoolfolksongaweek.blogspot.com/2011/08/21-seth-davy.html

Subject: Version: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Apr 13 - 10:25 AM

Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday

He sat on the corner of Bevington Bush,
Astride an old packing case;
And the dolls at the end of the plank went dancing,
As he crooned with a smile on his face:

La, la, la, la.... Come day, go day,
Wish in me heart for Sunday;
La, la, la, la.... Drinking buttermilk all the week,
And it's whisky on a Sunday.

His tired old hands drummed the wooden beam,
And the puppets they danced t' gear;
A far better show then you ever would see,
At the Pivvy or New Brighton Pier.

La, la, la, la.... Come day, go day,
Wish in me heart for Sunday;
La, la, la, la.... Drinking buttermilk all the week,
And it's whisky on a Sunday.

But in 1902, old Seth Davy died,
His song it was heard no more;
The three dancing dolls in a jowler-bin ended,
The plank went to mend a back door.

La, la, la, la.... Come day, go day,
Wish in me heart for Sunday;
La, la, la, la.... Drinking buttermilk all the week,
And it's whisky on a Sunday.

But on some stormy nights, down Scotty Road way,
With the wind blowing in from the sea,
You can still hear the song of old Seth Davy,
As he crooned to his dancing dolls three:

La, la, la, la.... Come day, go day,
Wish in me heart for Sunday;
La, la, la, la.... Drinking buttermilk all the week,
And it's whisky on a Sunday.
La, la, la, la.... Drinking buttermilk all the week,
And it's whisky on a Sunday.

Bevington bush was a pub on Scotland Road (Scotty Rd)

Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday
From: Snuffy
Date: 16 Apr 13 - 12:07 PM

Bevington Bush is still a street in Liverpool 3 off Scotland Road (53.41542 -2.98363), but there isn't much left there now. Was the pub named after the street, or vice-versa?

Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday
From: Noreen
Date: 16 Apr 13 - 06:44 PM

Snuffy, the place came first-

see this page: LIVERPOOL'S GHOST STREETS: BEVINGTON BUSH:

In the middle of the 18th century, however, the fields around here were gold and green. Bevington Bush was a hamlet hunkered within a thickly wooded hill. The 'bush', was a patch of elevated land on which a profitable crop of corn grew. In 'A History of Corn Milling' ...Bevington Bush is listed as having four windmills in 1768. ... The tower of the most northerly mill was demolished in the 1960s....

Two centuries ago Bevington Bush was a pastoral idyll. City merchants used to enjoy nothing better, on a Sunday afternoon, than to stroll from the industry of town to the open fields of Bevington Bush – the first village on the road to Preston.
They chose their route well. For Bevington Bush was home to a popular inn, perfectly placed for that reviving Sunday afternoon session.....

In his book Liverpool: Our City – Our Heritage, (pub: Bluecoat Press) historian Freddie O'Connor reveals that "…In 1760, half a mile from St Patrick's Cross (in what's now Great Crosshall Street) along Bevington Bush Road was an inn called simply The Bush, which became a favourite haunt for folk to travel out into the country, to the Bevy Inn, as it became fondly known."

And before you say anything – no, that's not why we say we're going for a bevvy. Obviously. Although 'The Bevvy' does get a mention in another book: Recollections of Old Liverpool (pub: Echo Press, Middlesex), "The sailors were very fond of going to the Bevington Bush Inn, or The Bevvy, with their sweethearts, and many a boisterous scene have I witnessed there. The view was really beautiful from the gardens…. Along the Scotland Road were cornfields, meadows and gardens…"
The gardens didn't last long. With the opening of Scotland Road the ancient hamlet of Bevington Bush soon became surrounded by our ever-growing city. But the inn remained – even adding its own brewery, Hallsal Seager and Co, in 1834.

Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday
From: Noreen
Date: 16 Apr 13 - 07:11 PM

LIVERPOOL GREAT – Seth Davy

Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday
From: Snuffy
Date: 17 Apr 13 - 03:20 AM

Apparently Dan Lowry (of Whip Jamboree fame) was also associated with Bevington Bush. According to the newspaper report shown here Liverpool Mercury, January 16th 1864

In the neighbourhood of Vauxhall Rd and Scotland Rd, and the immediate streets less damage was sustained. A house in Marlborough St, Scotland Rd, had the windows shattered. At the music hall "Dan Lowry's Music Saloon" Bevington Bush, a large plate glass window was broken, several of the pieces scattered on the pavement beneath.

Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday
From: Noreen
Date: 17 Apr 13 - 05:53 PM

Thanks Snuffy- that's fascinating, as is the rest of that site!

Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday
From: GUEST,94Mikej
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 10:00 AM

Pic of Seth Davy at Bevington Bush, Liverpool (from a lantern slide, circa 1900) (click)

Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday
From: breezy
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 04:04 PM

I heard that the date in the song 1905 was not the year of Seth's death but was used because it rhymes.

I thought it was 1903 but I dont really know, but it was not 1905

B****y Nickemall Iris sh   !! ;-]

Saw Jackie and Bridie perform this at the Troubadour mid 60s got their vynil too

Spinners popularised this song so give em some credit otherwise Rolf 'Tie me Kanga down ' would never have sung it .

When i visited Blackpool in 1990 a busker in the market worked such dolls with his feet

Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday
From: Noreen
Date: 21 Jun 13 - 06:46 PM

breezy, what is the relevance of your offensive comment about the Irish? Would you rather Irish people didn't sing this song for some reason?

There is a major connection between Ireland and Liverpool for obvious reasons, so it would be very strange if each didn't sing the other's songs.

Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday
From: GUEST,Mick
Date: 08 Sep 17 - 11:00 AM

Any additional info please on Glyn Hughes himself?

Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 08 Sep 17 - 12:13 PM

Mick, there isn't much but see these other two threads
 Lyr Req: Whiskey on a Sunday
thread.cfm?threadid=91115#2421484 
&
Who is/was Glyn Hughes
thread.cfm?threadid=33415#2608823 

~~~~~~~~~
'glyn hughes' in the "Lyrics & Knowledge Search" box up in the top right corner will get you loads of hits but those seem to be the main threads mentioning him

Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday
From: GUEST,bradfordian
Date: 08 Sep 17 - 12:33 PM

Seth Davy Picture --Click

Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday
From: GUEST,Sol
Date: 08 Sep 17 - 12:36 PM

Here's Seth Davy in action.
Seth Davy

As far as I know Glyn Hughes was a Liverpool journalist.
FWIW, Scotty Road = Scotland Road (where Cilla Black came from).

Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday
From: GUEST,Sol
Date: 08 Sep 17 - 12:40 PM

Guest "bradfordian" beat me to it, with a better link as well.

Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 08 Sep 17 - 12:44 PM

From: GUEST,bradfordian - PM
Date: 08 Sep 17 - 12:33 PM

Seth Davy Picture --Click

Thanks Ian,
And just to add some confirmation, in the background of the picture, clearly shown (with name sign) the Bevington House Hotel

Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 08 Sep 17 - 03:16 PM

I recall singing Seth Davy" at Cyril Tawney's Plymouth club in 1967, and being surprised that nobody knew the song.

Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday
From: Brakn
Date: 09 Sep 17 - 05:20 AM

Looked in the 1901/1891 census for Liverpool for any Seth Davey/Davys, for any Seths and for any Davy/Daveys. Didn't find anything. Perhaps that was not his name.

Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 09 Sep 17 - 08:01 AM

looking through all three threads the versions seem to be contributor's recollections. Is there a version which is authenticated as Glyn Hughes' original song.

Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Sep 17 - 08:05 AM

Many Thanks to Freddy Headey. The trail
goes cold; it's known that he existed but
seems to have left no trail other than the
fine song. Another thread implied that his
Glyn Hughes name was a pseudonym. People are
also confusing the issue with talk of another
Glyn Hughes who was a Yorkshire Author & Poet
but he had a much longer innings. Tantalising
mystery to me that someone with all that talent
passed away at such a young age. Anyone got any
further clues about Glyn Hughes?

Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 09 Sep 17 - 08:07 AM

Brakn, possibly it is a reflection of the reliability of census data collection at that time.

Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday
From: Brakn
Date: 09 Sep 17 - 08:25 AM

You're probably right.

Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Sep 17 - 08:11 AM

From Stan Kelly via Liverpool Writers;
none of the links seem to work. Has says,
"Glyn Hughes wrote Seth Davey. I was dere
at de time, like. He died very young".???

Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 10 Sep 17 - 08:28 PM

Just wondered which spirit he was drinking? (Whiskey: Irish or American, or Whisky: Scotch!?)

Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday
From: GUEST,Dottyliz
Date: 24 Oct 17 - 11:46 AM

Have just read the history of Seth Davy. As a family in Liverpool my cousin Albert Kennedy sang this song and we all joined in.    I have a Dancing Dinah, still in its original box, slightly battered.   The box says The Rage of 1934, the year I was born !
She and I perform every New Year and our friends love it !

Subject: ADD Version: Whiskey on a Sunday(from Danny Doyle)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 30 May 22 - 05:26 PM

We have several interesting threads on this song. I marked this one as the "origins" thread, but there is good information in several other threads. I'm not convinced we've found a definitive version of this song. The Digital Tradition lyrics appear to come from the Irish Rovers recording about Seth Davy with marionettes on strings. Here's my transcription of the recording by Danny Doyle, which has some significant differences from the DT/Irish Rovers version - and "limberjack" style dolls dancing on a board.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcTD7AvRqbQ

WHISKEY ON A SUNDAY (as sung by Danny Doyle)
(Glyn Hughes)

CHORUS:
Come day, go day, wish in my heart it was Sunday,
Drinking buttermilk all the week,
Whisky on a Sunday.

He sits on the corner of Beggars Bush,
Astride of an old packing case,
And the dolls on the end of the plank were dancing,
As he crooned with a smile on his face. CHORUS

His tired old hands drummed the wooden beam,
And the puppets they danced up and down,
A far better show than you ever would see,
In the fanciest theatre in town. CHORUS

But in 1902 old Seth Davy died,
His song it was heard no more,
The three dancing dolls in the dustbin were thrown,
And the plank went to mend the back door. CHORUS

Well, on some stormy night if you're passing that way,
With the wind blowing up from the sea,
You can still hear the songs of old Seth Davy,
As he croons to his dancing dolls three.

SING CHORUS TWICE, FADING DURING 2ND.

Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 31 May 22 - 06:35 AM

Joe,
that version appears to just be a version re-written to remove any reference to 'actual places', or any use of 'local idiom'.
As a song that can be sung anywhere it makes sense, but that is not the 'folk process', rather commercialisation.
(in my opinion)

Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 31 May 22 - 07:06 AM

Beggars Bush is the site of the former Beggars Bush Barracks on Haddington Road in the inner southern suburbs of Dublin.

So the Irish have appropriated this song!

The original location was Bevington Bush in Liverpool. And the song had several references to Liverpool.

Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday
From: pattyClink
Date: 31 May 22 - 10:46 AM

Agree with Nigel and Henry. It seems the most credible 'taped from the horse's mouth' version is the one henryp posted in 2015. If we could sort out the extra-line issue.

Subject: Version: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday
From: Joe Offer
Date: 31 May 22 - 11:49 AM

Here's Henry's 2015 post, which came from another thread. I think it's the closest to authentic that's been posted here at Mudcat. But I'm not sure I completely understand Henry's sources. If I understand Henry correctly, the lyrics and background information come from a book titled Liverpool Packet No.1 - A Picture History of Liverpool & Merseyside, from a chapter titled "Liverpool Street Songs & Broadside Ballads."

Thread #14342   Message #3701563
Posted By: GUEST,henryp
13-Apr-15 - 11:09 AM
Thread Name: Seth Davy / Davey info please
Subject: RE: Seth Davey

Liverpool Packet No.1 - A Picture History of Liverpool & Merseyside

Liverpool Street Songs & Broadside Ballads

Seth Davey of Bevington Bush

SETH DAVEY OF BEVINGTON BUSH
(Glyn Hughes)

He sat on the corner of Bevington Bush
Astride an old packing-case;
And the dolls on the end of the plank went dancing
As he crooned with a smile on his face;

CHORUS:
Come dey, go dey,
Wishin' me 'eart it wuz Sunday!
Drinkin' buttermilk all de week
Whisky on a Sunday.

He sat on the corner of Bevington Bush
Amid the old wooden beams
And the puppets were dancing "the gear".
A better show than ever you'd seen
In the Pivvy or on New Brighton Pier.

But in nineteen-hundred and two Seth snuffed it,
His song was heard no more;
The darkie-dolls in a jowler-bin ended,
And the plank went to mend the back door.

But on some stormy nights down Scottie Road way
With the wind blowing up from the sea,
You can still hear the song of Old Seth Davy
As he croons to his darkie-dolls three;


Fritz Spiegl writes:

I had heard about this song, and took it down when Glyn Hughes recorded it for me on tape, in about 1959, with the words given above (which, incidentally, have since been annexed by commercial entertainers together with an approximation to Glynn's tune, entertainers who have never been near Liverpool, and whose copyright claims to it should be ignored!)

* Even now there is a mystery - the second verse is indeed printed with five lines rather than four! It isn't obvious how these lines could be sung to the well-known tune.

Ten years later, in 1969, Fritz Spiegl discovered an old lantern slide showing an old man sitting on the corner of Bevington Bush and making some wooden dolls dance on a plank. henryp

Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 31 May 22 - 02:26 PM

Liverpool Packet No.1 - A Picture History of Liverpool & Merseyside, Liverpool Street Songs & Broadside Ballads. This is a wallet file containing a loose collection of facsimile reproductions of broadside publications (the forerunners of tabloid newspapers) assembled by Fritz Spiegl; salacious details of gory murders, tragedies, accidents, shipwrecks, etc. Published by Scouse Press, 1965, and still available from them.

Spiegl was born in 1926 near the Hungarian border of Austria. His parents succeeded in leaving the country in 1939, eventually escaping to Bolivia while sending Fritz and his older sister to England. Eventually he went to London to work for an advertising agency. But he soon switched to music, taught himself to play the flute, enrolled at the Royal Academy of Music and, within a short time, became principal flautist with the Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra, a position he kept for more than a decade.

As a composer, Spiegl scored a popular success with the original theme from the TV series Z-Cars, based on "Johnny Todd", a Liverpool sea shanty. His BBC Radio 4 UK Theme, in which folk songs from each of the four constituent countries of the United Kingdom are combined, was heard on Radio 4 at the beginning of each morning's broadcasting from November 1978 until April 2006.

Subject: RE: Origin: Ballad of Seth Davy / Whiskey on a Sunday
From: Joe Offer
Date: 31 May 22 - 07:07 PM

Thank you, Henry. That's fascinating. If you'd like to send me a scan of Spiegl's page(s) on the song, I'd be glad to post it for all to see.
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