What the hell is a 'salty dog'?

Subject: RE: What the hell is a 'salty dog'?
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jan 20 - 02:06 AM

Lighter 12 Jan 20 - 08:43 PM
...it seems to be an underlying idea that a "salty dog" is somebody or something that is special or otherwise remarkable...

Salt cod & Slavery

"A pound of salted fish or meat was doled out on Sundays to augment the barely survivable diet of the Caribbean plantation slave"

The innuendo seems pretty similar to Salty Dog in this song.

Portuguese Cod
Quim Barreiros

CHORUS: I want to smell your cod Maria 
I want to smell your cod 
Mariazinha let me go to the kitchen, let me go to the kitchen 
P'ra smell your cod

I-Your codfish is really beautiful 
You are the Portuguese with your special dish 
If the smell is good, the tastiest is the stew 
It is the favorite dish of the people of Portugal

II-Your soaked cod 
Tell me if it's from Norway or here from Portugal 
Mariazinha let me smell 
What a delicious thing, I never smelled anything like it - oh

https://youtu.be/Gs-DM-d2xDY

The whole salted cod history is quite interesting, on a whole, it was sorta like the 18th Century's version of canned tuna.

Subject: RE: What the hell is a 'salty dog'?
From: cnd
Date: 17 Jan 20 - 05:03 PM

Ironically, I just reading the liner notes of a Benny Martin album (CMH 9006), which wrote:

"SALTY DOG" is one of many songs strongly influenced by Negro blues. It was a very popular recording in 1930 by the Allen Brothers, and again in the 1940s by the Morris Brothers before the 1951 recording by Flatt & Scruggs (with Benny Sims playing the fiddle).

Subject: RE: What the hell is a 'salty dog'?
From: GUEST,paperback
Date: 13 Jan 20 - 04:39 PM

Or maybe it, salty dog, morphed from salted cod, a slave staple, and stiff as a board.

bacalhau: stick, staff- https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/bacalhau

Subject: RE: What the hell is a 'salty dog'?
From: Lighter
Date: 12 Jan 20 - 09:00 PM

A "salty dog." Get it?

Nineteenth-century humor. Ya can't beat it with a stick....

Subject: RE: What the hell is a 'salty dog'?
From: meself
Date: 12 Jan 20 - 08:47 PM

What the hell is a "vinegar pup"?

Subject: RE: What the hell is a 'salty dog'?
From: Lighter
Date: 12 Jan 20 - 08:43 PM

Pseud, the dictionary you cite covers British, not U.S. slang.

If the question is, "What does 'salty dog' mean in the Morris Bros. song?" I stick to my previous assertion: they've told us what they meant.

Obviously *no* ordinary word must have an essential meaning then, now, and forever.

Historically the term has had various meanings, none of them terrifically well known. Here are examples from primary sources that have nothing to do with the song. If all the meanings have anything in common, it seems to be an underlying idea that a "salty dog" is somebody or something that is special or otherwise remarkable.

The meaning "a sailor" (1914) seems to be a humorous extension.


J. F. Dobie, ed. Rainbow 'Round My Shoulder (Austin: Texas Folklore Society, 1927) 163 (written 1892):
My baby's a salty dog,/ My baby's a dandy,/ My baby's a vinegar pup,/ My baby's the candy.

Dallas Morning News (Apr. 13, 1906) 6:
Muskogee is a progressive city, It has taken to navigation early, and the siren shriek of the "Salty Dog" may be heard at any time bearing down the river with a party of gay and happy excursionists.

New Iberia [La.] Enterprise (July 28), 1906) 3:
SHERIFF'S SALE...FOR CASH....a certain gasoline engine boat named the Salty Dog.

Denver Star (July 18, 1914) 8:
Oh, Peaches and cream, you salty-dog. I am going to that Sunflower Dance at Fern Hall, Monday, July 20.

Fuel Oil Journal (December, 1914) 44:
THE TANK STRAPPER GEORGE SPEARY IS NOW A REGULAR SALTY DOG. John Tucker of the National Supply tells us that George Speary is now a regular navigator, having completed a full course in nautical science.

Bismarck Daily Tribune (July 20, 1916) 4:
Eagle Pass, Tex.--At "Dinty Moore's" they serve a brand new drink - the "salty dog"....It's a lime squashed in carbonated water, and served unsweetened with a cellar of salt.

Denver Post (Apr. 14, 1917) 5:
Jack Benton, better known to his friends as "Salty Dog," is now the popular cook at the Night and Day Cafe.

Charlotte Sunday Observer (Oct. 15, 1922) 8:
George Williams, alias "Salty Dog."

Journal of the House of the State of Missouri, Vol. 1) (1945) 372: Mr. Dent introduced S/Sgt. Jack ("Salty Dog") Welch to the House of Representatives.

Subject: RE: What the hell is a 'salty dog'?
From: GUEST,Pseudonymous
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 10:26 AM

There's a 1924 Papa Charlie Jackson version on Spotify. The version I know is Mississippi John Hurt, though I have heard folk do their own versions live too. Wikipedia quotes Jan Obrecht's book on Jackson as a source for the idea that versions circulated in New Orleans prior to the release of Jackson's '24 version.

Both Hurt's version and Jackson's one both have a tinge of ragtime. Jackson is good on the banjo. I think this chord sequence crops up quite a bit in early guitar ragtime?

Penguin Dictionary of Historical slang gives one meaning of 'salt' as copulate for the verb and also shows its use as a noun, related meaning.
It doesn't list a related historical use as an adjective, but the link seems obvious.

Subject: RE: What the hell is a 'salty dog'?
From: Lighter
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 09:49 AM

> "the song is known from black musicians from at least the early 1900s."

Evidence?

Subject: RE: What the hell is a 'salty dog'?
From: GUEST,Pseudonymous
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 04:26 AM

The idea that there is one single meaning, unchanging through time, and somehow crouching in the terms of any folk or trad blues song waiting to be uncovered by those who can crack the code is arguably naïve. Yes, you can draw on your knowledge of contemporary culture and on the accounts of particular singers and their thoughts when they sang it. You can form a theory on that basis. Interesting to do. But who is to say one singer speaks for all the rest? I'm partly with UK folklorist David Atkinson, who discusses this sort of point in connection with ballads on this, on this sort of thing. His work is worth looking up. As this thread shows, lyrics are open to interpretations.

Subject: RE: What the hell is a 'salty dog'?
From: cnd
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 01:03 AM

No, no, just as an explanation of the name, the term formerly being used but not in many years

Subject: RE: What the hell is a 'salty dog'?
From: meself
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 12:39 AM

cnd: Is 'salty dog' a term you've heard used outside the context of this song, then?

Subject: RE: What the hell is a 'salty dog'?
From: cnd
Date: 10 Jan 20 - 12:02 AM

I admit to having not read the whole thread, but I've always heard that "salty dog" is an expression coming from salting a dog to keep fleas and bugs off his fur. Since this took some effort and cost some money, you'd only salt your best/favorite dog, and so your "salty dog" was basically your best friend. That's why they say "let me be your salty dog or I won't be your man at all"

Subject: RE: What the hell is a 'salty dog'?
From: rich-joy
Date: 09 Jan 20 - 06:53 PM

Apparently Zeke Morris's claims of writing the song in 1935 were the usual copyright = financial rewards thing. There are earlier recordings and the song is known from black musicians from at least the early 1900s......

Subject: RE: What the hell is a 'salty dog'?
From: Lighter
Date: 09 Jan 20 - 11:49 AM

I'd think the writers' own statement (upthread) of what they were thinking should settle it.

Subject: RE: What the hell is a 'salty dog'?
From: meself
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 09:21 PM

Any reason to think they knew any better than the rest of us?

Subject: RE: What the hell is a 'salty dog'?
From: GUEST,Ted
Date: 08 Jan 20 - 08:01 PM

I saw a folk duo perform a song of this name back in my school in 1978 or so. In England. They were very clear that "salty dog" was a sexual innuendo.

Subject: RE: What the hell is a 'salty dog'?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 19 Jun 09 - 07:04 PM

The song predates bluegrass by more than a decade. It's a African-American blues party tune.

Subject: RE: What the hell is a 'salty dog'?
From: meself
Date: 19 Jun 09 - 01:55 PM

Maybe Poppa decided to go to sea no more ... and got religion ...

Subject: RE: What the hell is a 'salty dog'?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 19 Jun 09 - 01:35 PM

Another song title/lyric using the term "salty":

Poppa Ain't Salty No More

Kinda muddies the water (in terms of what that term means), doesn't it?

Subject: RE: What the hell is a 'salty dog'?
From: fumblefingers
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 09:47 PM

The singer is merely saying: "Let me be your man." A rough and rowdy rounder perhaps, but that's all.

Subject: RE: What the hell is a 'salty dog'?
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 06:20 PM

I just recalled that I once saw a dixieland jazz band do somewhat altered version of this song in a Sacramento jazz fesival.

Subject: RE: What the hell is a 'salty dog'?
From: Joe_F
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 05:50 PM

I first heard this song in 1953, from a highschool roommate of blessed memory. He explained that it meant "Let me screw you". No further details.

Subject: RE: What the hell is a 'salty dog'?
From: Richie
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 03:54 PM

Here's an interesting bit about the Morris brothers, who claimed to write the song:

This song was first performed by the Morris Brothers. It was written by Zeke in 1935, and arranged by him and his brother, Wiley. "Salty Dog" seems to have a number of meanings. Wiley's interpretation probably makes the most sense - "I have a different definition of a salty dog than Zeke has. Back when we were kids down in Old Fort we would see a girl we liked and say 'I'd like to be her salty dog.' There also used to be a drink you could get up in Michigan. All you had to do was say 'Let me have a Salty Dog,' and they'd pour you one."

Zeke said of the origins of the song, "I got the idea when we went to a little old honky tonk just outside of Canton which is in North Carolina. We went to play at a school out beyond Waynesville somewhere and we stopped at this place. They sold beer and had slot machines. At that time they were legal in North Carolina. We got in there after the show and got to drinking that beer and playing the slot machines with nickels, dimes and quarters. I think we hit three or four jackpots. Boy, here it would come! You know you had a pile of money when you had two handfuls of change. The name of that place was the 'Salty Dog,' and that's where I got the idea for the song. There's actually more verses to it than me and Wiley sing, a lot more verses."

"Salty Dog" was the most popular number the Morris Brothers ever recorded. According to Wiley, "It's considered a standard. Everybody uses it in the bluegrass field, just about. We're making more money off it now on copyright royalties than we ever did on our record, with other people using it. I reckon that song is known all over the world. When I get my statement every six months, it's being played in every nation under the sun. That song is even popular in Japan! 'Salty Dog' aint one that's gone up to high heaven and then fell completely down. It's just one that's considered a standard. It's our biggest song 'cause it's a good five string banjo number played bluegrass style."

Richie

Subject: RE: What the hell is a 'salty dog'?
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 03:50 PM

While John Stewart was with The Kingston Trio, they included "Salty Dog" on an LP, with John playing a 12-string. Coincidentally, the next to last verse(probably composed by John or Nick)is included below. For all I know, they may have rewritten most or all of it.

"Let me be your salty dog,
You won't need no man at all,
Honey, let me be your salty dog.

"I got a gal an' she's ten feet tall,
Sleeps in the kitchen with her head in the hall,
Honey, let me be your salty dog.

"Two ol' ladies a-sittin' in the sand,
Each one a-wishin' the other was a man,
Honey, let me be your salty dog.

"Floatin' down the river on an old oak log,
What the hell's a salty dog?" (the line is almost an aside)
Honey, let me be your salty dog."

"I think it better be the end of this song,
'cause it's a-gettin' too damn long,
Honey, let me be your salty dog.

Subject: RE: What the hell is a 'salty dog'?
From: kendall
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 02:27 PM

I once asked a long time bluegrass performer and he said
It is a pimp.

Subject: RE: What the hell is a 'salty dog'?
From: Richie
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 01:37 PM

I thought including a meat grinder was a good double entendre. I also have a woman eating a hot dog even tho it's a sand sculpture, didn't want it to be overt.

Richie

Subject: RE: What the hell is a 'salty dog'?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 10:17 AM

"Salty dog" as I understand it is a euphemism for one who gives sexual stimulation
orally to sex organs.

Subject: RE: What the hell is a 'salty dog'?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 09:58 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salty_dog

Subject: RE: What the hell is a 'salty dog'?
From: Richie
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 09:39 AM

Hi,

I just did a painting of Salty Dog Blues:

http://www.mattesonart.com/blog.aspx

This explains everything- Ha ha,

Richie

Subject: RE: What the hell is a 'salty dog'?
From: Trevor
Date: 19 Feb 02 - 09:38 AM

Has anybody heard the Steve Tilston song of the same name. I've heard him sing it a few times, with WAZ, as a solo and as a duo with a woman whose name escapes me. It always brings a tear to the eye.

Subject: RE: What the hell is a 'salty dog'?
From: Iodine
Date: 19 Feb 02 - 08:41 AM

Demi, You find it hard to use the word semen in songs about sailors????????? Seems to me it's the natural thing to do considering one of the specialties of Seamen is to avail all the lassies of their semen in every port around the world! I think it must be a tradition lmao !!!!!

Subject: RE: What the hell is a 'salty dog'?
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Feb 02 - 12:04 PM

Footnote: Lizzie Miles and Sharkey Bonano were apparently well-known in the late 1920s and the 1930s. Three cds of Lizzie Miles from this period are available on Document 5058-5060. She also appears on their Jazzin' the Blues albums. One cd of Sharkey Bonano from the same period is on Tradition. I can find no reissues of their later efforts.

Subject: Lyr Add: SALTY DOG (Lizzie Miles and Sharkey's...
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Feb 02 - 12:08 AM

SALTY DOG

My name's Lizzie from New Orleans
An' I sho' do love my red beans
'Cause I'm a salty dog (salty dog)
Yes, a salty dog.

Now I've been east and I've been west
But I like New Orleans the best
It's a salty dog (salty dog)
Yes, a salty dog

Mardi Gras is a dream
you can meet all those Creole queens
They're salty dogs (salty dogs)
Yes, salty dogs. (Oh, you dog)

If you want to blow your cares away
Just walk on in the Vieux Carré
You'll find salty dogs (salty dogs)
Yes, salty dogs.

Never had no name, never went to school,
But when it comes to lovin', I ain't no fool,
I'm a salty dog (salty dog)
Yes, I'm a salty dog.

I've got sixteen men in love with me
But the man I love ain't legally free
He's a salty dog (salty dog)
Yes, a salty dog.

I believe my man's got a black cat at home,
When I leave, I've got to run back home
He's a salty dog (salty dog)
He's a salty dog.

Arranged by Sharkey Bonano, Dexter, and Pajaude. Recorded 1952, Capitol T792, "A Night In Old New Orleans." Lizzie Miles and Sharkey's Kings of Dixieland. (Salty dog) in parentheses interjected by band members.

Subject: RE: What the hell is a 'salty dog'?
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Feb 02 - 01:53 AM

Arkie (Arkansas?) - not quite south enough to understand the language. Ther would be no question as to the meaning in New Orleans, say.
www.honkingduck.com has a recording of "A New Salty Dog" by the Allen Bros. (ca. 1930). Worth a listen.

Subject: RE: What the hell is a 'salty dog'?
From: Deni
Date: 11 Feb 02 - 01:32 AM

This thread is hilarious, and informative, all that stuff about jelly rolls and candy sticks. I never knew what it all meant till now, I swear. But I've always found it hard singing the word seamen in songs about sailors. D

Subject: RE: What the hell is a 'salty dog'?
From: GUEST,Arkie
Date: 10 Feb 02 - 07:56 PM

Somewhere I read that salt has over 14,000 uses. It is no wonder that a large number of diverse phrases using the word salt have found their way into people's language. Roman soldiers were supposedly paid in part by a ration of salt. Hence the phrase "not worth his salt". In former times, before salt and pepper shakers, a container of salt was placed on the table at mealtime. The host sat at one end of the table, the head of the table. The salt server was in the middle. Those who sat closest to the host were the most honored guests and those most important in rank. Those who sat at the far end or "below the salt" were of lesser rank and social importance. Salty language may mean one swears like a sailor. Salty in a social context may refer to social significance. In the song in question, one can substitute penis, oral sex, or vagina which is supposedly another term associated with salty dog, "Let me be your ..." and you get a phrase one would only sing if drunk or demented. Pimp would make a little more sense. "Let me be your main man or I won't be your man at all" makes a lot more sense. The phrase "salty dog" instead of main man adds a bit more punch and carries a little more sassy interpretation. But I suspect that salty dog will mean whatever people want it to mean.

Subject: RE: What the hell is a 'salty dog'?
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Feb 02 - 05:01 PM

53, were you a Boy Scout? A young Republican? He! He! He!

Subject: RE: What the hell is a 'salty dog'?
From: 53
Date: 10 Feb 02 - 04:55 PM

A good ole hot dog with plenty of chili, cheese, hot sauce, and onions, mustard, and lots of SALT.

Subject: RE: What the hell is a 'salty dog'?
From: Rolfyboy6
Date: 10 Feb 02 - 03:10 PM

I heard the term from an early age and I just always saw it as ALL OF THE ABOVE. Why not, good 'poetic terms' that carry lots of freight in a small space are hard to come by. 'Honey let me be your Salty Dog.'

Another addition: "Come back baby, Papa ain't salty no more"--T-Bone Walker("Papa Ain't Salty No More").

Subject: RE: What the hell is a 'salty dog'?
From: catspaw49
Date: 10 Feb 02 - 01:27 PM

LOL Dicho!

Steve, I love the threads and I'm getting a lot of fun out of the play back and forth.......Good stuff and good fun too.....That's what makes a great thread.

Spaw

Subject: RE: What the hell is a 'salty dog'?
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Feb 02 - 01:24 PM

Jazz me, baby! My jelly roll needs fillin' by a salty dog named Cotton-eyed Joe!

Subject: RE: What the hell is a 'salty dog'?
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 10 Feb 02 - 11:53 AM

A jelly roll is something to eat! Isn't it?? Jeez, another Western tradition down the tubes!

And you are right Spaw - I've no doubt about it. It was still a hilarious thread and fun to try to figure out where some of these sayings come from. I love finding the origins of sayings and words - Some kind of fun eh?

Steve

Subject: RE: What the hell is a 'salty dog'?
From: catspaw49
Date: 09 Feb 02 - 08:00 PM

We'll hold 'em off at the Sunken Road Dicho!

Spaw

Subject: RE: What the hell is a 'salty dog'?
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 Feb 02 - 07:58 PM

Any more of this sailor stuff and the South Shall Rise Again! (Yankees can join too, Catspaw).
I bet these same guys think a jelly roll is something to eat! Oops- methinks I had better rethink that thought.

Subject: RE: What the hell is a 'salty dog'?
From: catspaw49
Date: 09 Feb 02 - 07:53 PM

......Uh.....yeah, well..........Let me just say it wasn't with the thought of some old fart in salt-washed khakis!!

Spaw

Subject: RE: What the hell is a 'salty dog'?
From: Anahootz
Date: 09 Feb 02 - 07:40 PM

well, spaw, mebbe it was with SOME thought of the sea.

Think of that great lyric from another bygone tune, "I'm like a one-eyed cat, peepin' in a seafood store..."

Subject: RE: What the hell is a 'salty dog'?
From: catspaw49
Date: 09 Feb 02 - 07:23 PM

Steve, I love ya' man.....in the best possible sense of the word.....but I will flatass-out guarangawddamntee you that no blues guys ever sang those words with the thought of anything relating to the sea!

Let me put it this way...........Jack Kennedy was a Navy man and had also a long history of sailing for sport and could be considered a bit of a "Salt." I have no idea what he actually preferred to do with Jackie, Marilyn, and his other sexual companions. Bill Clinton on the other hand was never in the Navy and I don't know that he ever set foot on a rowboat...............HOWEVER.....In the context of southern blues and bluegrass, ragtime and jazz, Bill Clinton was definitely Monica's "Salty Dog."

Spaw

Subject: RE: What the hell is a 'salty dog'?
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 09 Feb 02 - 07:10 PM

Maybe and maybe not Spaw - Can't be proven either way I think - Which would suggest to me that it is whatever one's coniving little, or large, mind can conjure up! For us old Jarheads we know what we've done - and I can say that many of those adages could be me at times in my life! Just a dang funny thread!! Har har har

Semper Fi Guest

Steve

Subject: RE: What the hell is a 'salty dog'?
From: GUEST,Bogtrotter6
Date: 09 Feb 02 - 07:07 PM

Bless ya Norton1(Steve) and Semper Fi. Could not agree with ya more but yer tellin our secrets to them infadel sailors and army pukes. However my understandin is that the the origin came from the Sailing Ship Catains who used to keep dogs(mascots) aboard to warn them of unwanted visitors(Mutineers). The longer they stayed at sea the saltier the dogs coat became- it was later transferred to old Sailors for obviously the same reason. Vis-a-Vi for us "Seagoin Bellhops"

Subject: RE: What the hell is a 'salty dog'?
From: catspaw49
Date: 09 Feb 02 - 07:07 PM

Okay.....I give up   a salty dog is some kind of naval officer then huh? Okay, just let me make a few changes..........

Candy man been here and gone
Candy man been here and gone
Candy man, Naval officer,
If you can't be my Candy man you can't be my naval officer.
Candy man,candy man,
Candy man, been here and gone,
Candy man, naval officer,
I wish I was in New Orleans, sitting on the candy stand.

Then I need to change............

Let me be your naval officer
Or I won't be your man at all
Honey let me be your naval officer.
Down in the holler
Sittin on a log
Finger on the trigger
And my eye on a hog
Honey let me be you naval officer.

Now let's see, only about 200 verses and another 100 songs to go............

Spaw