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BS: Censored ice skating
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Subject: RE: BS: Censored ice skating From: Don Firth Date: 13 Feb 02 - 04:06 PM Hmm. Looks like the "naughty police" are out and about again. ". . . Sonja Henie's tu-tu!" Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Censored ice skating From: Don Firth Date: 13 Feb 02 - 03:50 PM My two sisters were figure skaters, and they got up into the pretty rarefied atmosphere of the sport. My older sister, Mary, and her partner, Donald Laws, won the National Silver Dance Championship in 1948. Then she turned professional and went to teach skating in Kingston, Ontario. Married, retired, raised a batch of kids, still living there. My younger sister, Pat, won the National Junior Ladies in 1953 and went on to skate in the World Championships in Vienna in 1955. She placed seventh, behind Tenley Albright who had won it three times and Carol Heiss who went on to win five times. So my kid sister was out there playin' with the big kids. She also turned professional, taught various places including Portland, Oregon (she remembers giving some lessons to a feisty little blond kid named Tonya Harding). Married, retired, raised a batch of kids, currently living in Newcastle, across Lake Washington from Seattle. As a result, I've seen a helluva lot of figure skating, including a number of National Championships. Sale and Pelletier laid down the most shiningly flawless program I have ever seen. I was aware that there is frequent hanky-panky among the judges and that vote-trading goes on, but this was the most blatant travesty I have ever seen. I couldn't believe they would be so obvious about it. I hope the appropriate authorities investigate the bejesus out of this, permanently disqualify the judges involved, and right the wrong that's been done. After all, everything is on videotape, and both programs can easily be studied and analyzed. But I doubt it will happen. I haven't had a chance to talk to my sister Pat about this, but I'll sure be interested to hear what she has to say. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Censored ice skating From: SharonA Date: 13 Feb 02 - 03:48 PM What the heck are you people talking about?? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Censored ice skating From: Sorcha Date: 13 Feb 02 - 03:42 PM Ooooo, Susan, you mean you fly crack up? (giggle) Never, ever fly crack up! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Censored ice skating From: wysiwyg Date: 13 Feb 02 - 03:29 PM Crack DOWN! Down, crack, down! And tighten UP! Couldn't resist. ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: BS: Censored ice skating From: SharonA Date: 13 Feb 02 - 03:23 PM Oops! Sorry, Susan; I didn't realize you'd already posted a link to that FAQ! BTW, also check out the answer to that FAQ's question #7 about certain moves in pairs skating. Maybe the new "crackdown" is just a re-tightening of some rules that have been relaxed recently? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Censored ice skating From: SharonA Date: 13 Feb 02 - 03:10 PM Mrrzy: Okay, I finally found a combination of keywords to use for a Google Search that will bring up some news articles about censoring ice skating routines: try entering "2002 olympic skating suggestive" in Google's search field. Here are a couple of links to get you started: Sex banned from ice skating routines Italian Fury at Dirty Dancing Slur Competitive Figure Skating FAQ: Rules and Regulations |
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Subject: RE: BS: Censored ice skating From: wysiwyg Date: 13 Feb 02 - 03:02 PM BACKGROUND... Ah, HERE WE GO, in a FAQ for skaters: [8] What is the "Katarina Rule"? This refers to the guidelines for skaters' costumes that were adopted after Katarina Witt showed up at the 1988 European championships wearing a skimpy showgirl costume trimmed with feathers. (Many people were dismayed by the increasing emphasis on theatrical costuming and displays of pulchritude, rather than athleticism.) Ladies are now required to wear skirts and pants "covering the hips and posterior". Men cannot wear clothing that is sleeveless or that exposes the chest. A more recent rule change requires men to wear trousers and not tights. Clothing is also supposed to be free from "excessive decoration", such as feathers that can come loose and create a safety hazard on the ice. So it's an equipment reg. ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: BS: Censored ice skating From: CapriUni Date: 13 Feb 02 - 02:56 PM I can't remember when or it what context I was watching it (I was channel surfing), but during one televised skating event leading up to the Olympics (nationals? World cup?), the broadcaster did have its two resident "Experts" on skates, demonstratiing which moves would now be penelized, and how much harder that makes the choreography... So, if it is an urban legend, it's credible enough to have those with power in the sport believing it, and that may be enough... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Censored ice skating From: SharonA Date: 13 Feb 02 - 02:39 PM More here with a brief reference to the censoring issue: Skating Flap Seems that the vote-trading practice is nothing new. I still can't find an article specifically about the censoring of moves or costuming. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Censored ice skating From: SharonA Date: 13 Feb 02 - 02:14 PM Here's a short news story about the growing scandal of the judging in the Pairs skating competition: Fixed Figures? Apparently the French judge was told by her union to vote for the Russian pair, as part of a vote-trading deal (a Russian judge was later supposed to vote in favor of the French ice-dancing team). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Censored ice skating From: MMario Date: 13 Feb 02 - 11:53 AM Mrrzy - I have heard it discussed in relation to world and national contest - not in relation to Olympics. On the other hand - one of the judges has admitted to being "told to vote for the Russians" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Censored ice skating From: Mrrzy Date: 13 Feb 02 - 11:38 AM I'm sorry to drag you all back to the original question, but I still have seen NO NEWS reports on the censoring of ice skating, and am beginning more and more to think it is an urban legend. Auxiris, where did you first hear/read of this? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Censored ice skating From: Bill D Date: 13 Feb 02 - 11:19 AM "going all the way, maybe that should be an event, too..." The moguls...the marathon....the 'normal hill'....the BI-athilon.....the 'speed course'....naked luge....mixed doubles bobsled....I like it! It oughta work --the pay-for-view would finance the whole thing... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Censored ice skating From: Midchuck Date: 13 Feb 02 - 10:02 AM More on point for the Mudcat, why not contest fiddling or guitar flatpicking? The contest formats have made these activities as much athletic events as music, why not go all the way? And speaking of going all the way, maybe that should be an event, too... Peter. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Censored ice skating From: The Walrus at work Date: 13 Feb 02 - 08:43 AM If the Olympics can have sychronised swimming and ice dance as categories, can we look forward to perhaps having indoor bowls? Or maybe even those old pub favorites, Darts, Dominoes (And the "Yard-of-Ale")? (At least these are quantifiable) Regards Walrus |
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Subject: RE: BS: Censored ice skating From: Wolfgang Date: 13 Feb 02 - 06:01 AM new try for the female sailor: Elvstrøm Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: Censored ice skating From: Wolfgang Date: 13 Feb 02 - 05:59 AM I am completely uninterested in figure skating, but:
CapriUni: That's more or less correct, I'll focus on the 'less' aspect for I am fond of exceptions and trivia. For non-Olympic sports, you have forgotten at least racing (car and motorbike). E.g. last year for the first time ever a woman has won the ralley Paris - Dakar. There was the odd woman competing in Formula 1 and last year there was a woman competing in motorbike worldcup. Chess may be mentioned as well (if you consider it a sport) the best women compete with the men though there is a women only championship. As for Olympic sports, there are two other sports beside the equestrian I know of in which women have competed with men. The first one should be obvious though somehow it doesn't come to mind: in rowing, the position of the coxswain has more than once been filled by a woman with no little success. Sailing is the second example. There are now Olympic sailing races for women, but for many decades there only has been sailing without mentioning the gender. Inge Trine Elvstr6oslash;m might come to mind who ended 4th in 1984 Tornado sailing with her famous father. As for Olympic trivia, Georg Hackl two days ago became the third athlete ever to win at least one medal at each of five Olympic winter games. That's a second place in the 'competition' longest medal career shared with many other athletes (most from the summer games). So far only two athletes have brought home at least one medal from six different games. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: Censored ice skating From: CapriUni Date: 12 Feb 02 - 06:48 PM Sorcha, sorry about that... if I'd been more awake, I might have caught your tone/meaning... btw, in the last competition I took part in was also occasion the retiremnet for a horse who won a gold for a rider from Denmark in the ParaOlympic in 1986 -- As I understand it, he got a perfect score. And in the paraOlympics, riders can not have ridden their horse in at least a year -- to make it fair for riders who cannot train with their own horses. And the standards of the ParaOlympics are, in theory, the same for the regular Olympics (unlike the "Special" Olympics, where everyone gets a medal). BTW, I in 2000, I heard the rumor that they're thinking of eliminating dressage, so that the sports roster would have enough room for beach vollyball.... You know what gets my vote! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Censored ice skating From: Blackcatter Date: 12 Feb 02 - 06:05 PM It doesn't take just $$$$$$ it takes $$$$$ for bribes. I'd vote for Andorra as well. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Censored ice skating From: Kim C Date: 12 Feb 02 - 03:33 PM Say, Bob, you might have something there........ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Censored ice skating From: GUEST,bob schwarer Date: 12 Feb 02 - 02:51 PM Nude olympics. Just like the originals. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Censored ice skating From: Bill D Date: 12 Feb 02 - 02:39 PM I voted for Andorra for the next winter games...but it takes $$$$$$ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Censored ice skating From: Blackcatter Date: 12 Feb 02 - 02:09 PM Another thing - is anyone sick and tired of the U.S. hosting olympic games? During the opening ceremonies Bob and Katie kept making a big deal that this was the first Winter Games in the U.S. since 1980. As if this was something slightly unfair. We are now tied with France for hosting the most Winter Games. And I've almost lost track as to how many we've hosted between Summer & Winter. Salt Lake, Atlanta, Los Angeles (twice), Lake Placid (twice), St. Louis, Squaw Valley. And every couple years my city (Orlando) spends thousands of dollars in hopes of one day hosting the Olympics. Just to "prove" were a "real" city. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Censored ice skating From: Bill D Date: 12 Feb 02 - 01:00 PM more judges (maybe 12)in skating...with **ANONYMOUS** voting, so no judge would have to answer to anyone 'might' help.. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Censored ice skating From: GUEST,petr Date: 12 Feb 02 - 12:46 PM ok even the one man luge, their outfits are so tight you can tell ones religion. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Censored ice skating From: MMario Date: 12 Feb 02 - 12:28 PM To be fair - you have to realize that the bias in the ice skating field is not an OLYMPIC one, but one that comes out of the skating "industry" itself. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Censored ice skating From: Sorcha Date: 12 Feb 02 - 12:25 PM Capri-Uni, I was being sarcastic. I like the equestrian events too. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Censored ice skating From: MMario Date: 12 Feb 02 - 12:10 PM even most of the downhill ski events have a qualatative component. Ski jumping, slalom, etc all recieve marks based on style as well as their distance/speed |
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Subject: RE: BS: Censored ice skating From: Mrrzy Date: 12 Feb 02 - 09:10 AM Why does a sport have to have a ball, and isn't that a GAME, then? What about relay races, swim meets, marathons - all sporting events to me...? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Censored ice skating From: Hrothgar Date: 12 Feb 02 - 05:38 AM Isn't the Olympic motto "Stronger, faster, higher?" If they dump anything that has qualitative assessments, they'll be off to a good start. Then they can get rid of any sport where an Olympic gold medal is not the pinnacle of achievement - there go golf, tennis, soccer.........and heaps more. Then it will be easier to run, some smaller cities could get to run them, and whoops! It might cut back on TV time and advertising revenue. Forget I said this... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Censored ice skating From: technission Date: 12 Feb 02 - 05:13 AM Skimpy costumes? I thought they just looked that way due to all the flesh-colored fabric masquerading as uncovered flesh...PLEASE don't tell me there was real skimpyness and I MISSED it. Then I might have to buy some sports magazine, and for that I would have to go to a convenience store way off regular paths so nobody I know caught me doing it....And gee, all this cold weenie talk is embarrassing me. Good thing pole vault is in summer, huh? 8] sleepy leer trying to look like grin |
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Subject: RE: BS: Censored ice skating From: Auxiris Date: 12 Feb 02 - 04:23 AM Just for the record—and because I forgot when I opened this can of worms—I heard that the penalty for "suggestive" figures/gestures (whatever) is supposed to be 1/10th of a point for EACH offence. cheers, Aux
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Subject: RE: BS: Censored ice skating From: CapriUni Date: 12 Feb 02 - 02:06 AM Sorcha, you wrote: "After all, who really cares about .22 shooting, Nordic combined, Equestrian Jumping, etc? ( Unless Princess Anne is competeing....)" I don't know about .22 shooting and Nordic combined, but Equestrian sports are my favorite (summer) Olympic sport. 'Course, I'm biased because I've taken dressage classes as my primary physical therapy since I was 9 years old, and I've competed occasionally, myself (though nowhere near the Olympic level. In any case, I think a person's apreciation of any sport grows in exponential relationship with how much you understand the rules, and the less arbitrary it all seems. But it this case, I think the judges were just clueless --looking at the parts, perhaps, rather than the whole. PS:BTW, the equestrian sports are the only ones not divided into "men's" and "women's" divisions -- either for the four-leggeds or the two-leggeds ;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Censored ice skating From: Blackcatter Date: 12 Feb 02 - 01:30 AM And then there was the Bridge enthusiasts who want a card game to be part of the olympics. And the winter olympics, no less - so they'd get more tv time supposedly. As for "suggestive" skaters - I don't get it. The women wear skin-tight clothing, short skirts that are meant to flip up and show tushie, they do splits and after a 3 minute routine show off their heaving chests because their out of breath. What could be more suggestive? Do the men somehow fondle their partners? Nude skating would be fun, though. Though one would expect that most of the men wouldn't be very impressive considering the cold. And judging in gymnastics and skating is the same every time - and it's just like the weather - everyone talks about it, but no one ever seems to DO anything about it. pax yall |
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Subject: RE: BS: Censored ice skating From: GUEST,Boab Date: 12 Feb 02 - 01:01 AM If golf counts as a sport, so does drying paint. And I'm dying to see the first exhibition of beach volleyball in Nunavat. There can be no sport where commercial interest is involved, either by the individual competitor or by a "sponsor" seeking advertising. The olympic ideal is supposed to be the striving of each individual----not a "national team". I'm afraid the coverage I've seen since I arrived in North America has given rise to some disgust.The only fair coverage I could find on tv of the last games was on the French-speaking channel. It actually acknowledged the existence of athletes from Asia, Africa and Europe. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Censored ice skating From: Lyrical Lady Date: 12 Feb 02 - 12:41 AM Kat...I'm with you...no more Olympics for me! Canada was robbed, no doubt! Leaves a very sour taste in my mouth. So many rules all the athletes have to comply with and they let crooks sit on the judges panel...for shame! The Russians knew they didn't win and seemed to be very embarassed ... definately not an Olympic moment! Still, I'm very proud of Jamie and David. Such a bitter pill to swallow! LL |
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Subject: RE: BS: Censored ice skating From: DonMeixner Date: 12 Feb 02 - 12:28 AM I would love to see an entire Curling Competition sometime. And I do enjoy the Bi-Athalon thing as well. Don |
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Subject: RE: BS: Censored ice skating From: Sorcha Date: 12 Feb 02 - 12:23 AM Yes Don. Let them skate naked and let's see what it will do.....esp for the "endowed males"........what a vision........one swinging weenie.....Weenies Win!!! (LOL)
You have to admit that it would be a change from Boobs Win..........(which they almost always do except in skating and gymnastics where tushies and cunnies win)
Am I cynical? Yes. Am I non PC? Yes. Let the best win. Surya Bonaly (sp) should have won years ago......but she was black and did "unacceptable" moves.....she didn't pay her dues. Scotty Hamilton did........and he ended up with testicular cancer. Nothing against Scotty, just against the "Judges" Skating and gymnastics are probably the most Politically Judged Olympic Events that there are. After all, who really cares about .22 shooting, Nordic combined, Equestrian Jumping, etc? ( Unless Princess Anne is competeing....) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Censored ice skating From: Peg Date: 12 Feb 02 - 12:10 AM I thought the Russians were very fine; but the Canadian couple was superior. I noticed however, that the commentators made loads of disparaging and positive comments throughout the other pairs' programs but were virtually silent when Sale and Pelletier were skating until the very end; kind of eerie. Then they were cheering as baldly as the audience! and then of course were righteously upset when the Russians won (unfairly I'll agree). Very classy of the Russians to visibly act somewhat embarrassed and say "I'm sorry" to the silver winners on the pedestal... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Censored ice skating From: DonMeixner Date: 12 Feb 02 - 12:08 AM Sorcha,
Shouldn't that be Onanistic? An Onanist, one who promotes Onanism, See what I mean? Suggestive clothes?? Hell those girls could skate naked and it would be ok with me. I can't imagine what centrifical force would do but I'm willing to give it a try. I am lost as to how a group can get the higher score and still lose? What are ordinals and how do they work anyway? Don |
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Subject: RE: BS: Censored ice skating From: GUEST,Gary T Date: 11 Feb 02 - 11:56 PM Just what sort of brain damage is required in order to be an Olympic skating judge? Innovation, passion, utter smoothness, hand-in-glove coordination of pairs are not rewarded. Being Russian is. Jamie and John (or Jean?--anyway, the Canadians) were spendid. The Russian couple were mediocre in comparison--in my ever-so-humble opinion, of course. And the American couple deserved a medal, I thought. Ah well. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Censored ice skating From: MMario Date: 11 Feb 02 - 11:36 PM yup - the russian couple really didn't have a clean program; whereas the canadian couple were about as close to flawless as possible |
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Subject: RE: BS: Censored ice skating From: Peg Date: 11 Feb 02 - 11:12 PM I am watching the skating right now and it was quite scandalous when the Canadian favorites got second place scores...despite a standing ovation and the highest marks so far...ah well. They expected the gold medal and deserved it but it now looks like they won't get it. It is my favorite event and certainly has always seemed of of the most 'athletic" of the winter Olympic categories. Ballet and gymnastics on ice: not easy. The costumes can and do make or break the artistic "line" of the performance: a poor choice here, like a poor choice of music, can make really fine skating seem less so. They have great bodies; I think they oughta show 'em off! The sexier the moves the better as long as it is tasteful.
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Subject: RE: BS: Censored ice skating From: Sorcha Date: 11 Feb 02 - 09:57 PM Two man luge?? The one man luge is positively onanism.....check the camera angles......(joke, people, joke) However, the political angles of the entire Olympics is not a joke, it's a fact. It is just far more apparent in the ice skating competitions. I have yet to watch any of it........
The serious-ness of my staying away from the Olympics is underscored by the fact that I have been "computer-less" for 4 days, and couldn't get to the library until today.......In spite of no computer & no books I still have not watched any Olympics, or any "gossip" show on TV. The damn Olympics gets more and more political every time it happens......not sure I will ever watch any of it again. I do feel sorry for the cities that feel compelled to bid for it. Hosting the Olympics seems to only cause grief and debt. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Censored ice skating From: GUEST,petr Date: 11 Feb 02 - 07:29 PM if you think theres too much eroticism in ice skating,, what about that 2 man luge? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Censored ice skating From: Clinton Hammond Date: 11 Feb 02 - 03:36 PM The olympics suck... and not in the good way... may as well be watching Survivor, or The Chair... Nothing good to say? The Garnet Rogers concert I was at the other night was FANTASTIC!!!!! Now THAT'S entertainment! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Censored ice skating From: allie kiwi Date: 11 Feb 02 - 03:33 PM JJ, I agree - anything that needs to be 'judged' isn't a sport, it's an 'art'. Yes, it takes a great deal of skill and fitness. But when you think about it - ice skating is dancing with special shoes. Ballet is dancing with special shoes. Why dont we have ballet in the Olympics? And as for syncronised swimming?? Loopy, your definition of sport therefore just ruled out all the traditional Olympic events. Where's the defence or ball in the running, throwing and jumping? I agree that things with a ball and 'defence' are sports as we know it, but I think that anything that needs a referee should not be at the olympics. A referee has too much power to alter the course of events. As was mentioned in something to do with the 'Superbowl (whatever that is). Things should have the ability to be judged in an unboased manner by time or distance. A stopwatch and tape measure dont take politics into account. If it were up to me we'd see a lot of the crowd pleasers go - gymnastics, iceskating, rugby, football (soccer), hockey - ice and field etc. Of course then no-one would want to watch, and we'd no longer have the Olympics. As for the suggestive movements - well that's ridiculous. It shows even more that the skating doesn't belong in this arena. You dont see the 100 metres being judged on the fine turn of the runners ankle, with points off for the suggestive movement of an arm. And imagine a horse race - a horse comes out from behind, takes over from the favourite to get a place, but the judges say - no, sorry, the other horse is the favourite, you dont get the place? Allie |
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Subject: RE: BS: Censored ice skating From: gnu Date: 11 Feb 02 - 03:26 PM Goodiness gracious, Clint ! You have been right cranky lately. Not hardly a good word to say about anything. The Missus cut you off or WHA ? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Censored ice skating From: Clinton Hammond Date: 11 Feb 02 - 03:21 PM Do me a favour, and censor all that olympic CRAP right off the air forever! |