BS: Not just viruses you need to worry about

Subject: Not just viruses you need to worry about
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Feb 02 - 08:03 AM

Cablemodem company spies on users' Web browsing Associated Press Published Feb 13, 2002 WASHINGTON -- Comcast Corp., the nation's third-largest cable company, has started recording the Web browsing activities of each of its 1 million high-speed Internet subscribers without notifying them of the change.

Comcast acknowledged Tuesday that it is recording which Web pages each customer visits as part of a technology overhaul that it hopes will save money and speed up its network, but which was not intended to infringe on privacy.

Outside experts - including the vendor whose powerful software Comcast is using - said Comcast is recording more information about the online activities of customers than is necessary for the technology enhancements.

``It's not needed,'' said Steve Russell, a vice president for Inktomi Corp. Russell said Inktomi's software also records other information from Comcast subscribers, which can include passwords for Web sites and credit-card numbers under limited circumstances.

Russell discounted privacy concerns, saying engineers are using some of the information to improve Comcast performance and that many other Internet devices record data racing across computer networks.

But two of the nation's largest Internet providers, America Online and Earthlink, said they purposely do not collect details about the Web browsing of their combined 35 million subscribers.

``We definitely would have no interest in doing that at all,'' Earthlink's chief privacy officer, Les Seagraves, said. ``We don't want to have customer records about where they've visited.''

AOL spokesman Nicholas Graham said: ``We do not track the personal Web activity of our members for privacy reasons.''

Comcast Executive Vice President Dave Watson said the company records no more information about its customers than is common in the industry and no more than needed to optimize its network. He said that while the company records details about customer Web browsing, it does not use the information to build profiles of online consumer behavior.

``Comcast absolutely does not share personal information about our customers, and we have the utmost respect for our customers' privacy,'' Watson said.

A Comcast spokesman, Tim Fitzpatrick, said Web browsing was already being recorded for its subscribers in Detroit and in parts of Delaware and Virginia, and would be extended across the nation by the end of this week.

``I'm furious,'' said George Imburgia, an Internet security expert in Dover, Del., and a Comcast customer. ``They're monitoring and logging everybody's activities.'' Imburgia compared the monitoring to the surveillance software the FBI uses. ``It's an evil, Carnivore-type thing,'' he said.

Fitzpatrick acknowledged that customers weren't individually notified of any change in what's recorded behind the scenes. But he said Comcast's subscriber and privacy agreements, available on its Web site, tell customers that the company collects information ``about where you go on the service or on the Web.''

Fitzpatrick said Comcast, using the Inktomi software, is recording the numeric Internet address uniquely assigned to each subscriber, along with the Internet address of each requested Web page. Comcast stores the information for days before it's deleted, but would not say for exactly how long.

Watson, the Comcast executive, said the company does not match a subscriber's identity to the numeric Internet address they use online.

Comcast's recording is part of an overhaul requiring new and existing customers to use behind-the-scenes technology known as a ``proxy,'' which funnels a person's Web surfing through powerful, centralized Internet computers controlled by Comcast. Customers previously could volunteer to use these proxy computers, but they are automatically activated under the new system for all subscribers.

To speed performance, these proxy computers retain copies of the most-popular Web sites that customers visit. Comcast said it records which are the most popular Web sites to determine which ones it should copy to its centralized computers, though leading industry experts said there was no need to match Web surfing back to the specific Internet addresses of subscribers.

Experts said Comcast's own records of online activity would be available to police and the FBI with a court order and to lawyers in civil lawsuits, though Comcast said it did not begin tracking because of any government request.

``Once you're sitting on it, you're really inviting all kinds of requests,'' said David Sobel of the Washington-based Electronic Privacy Information Center, a civil-liberties group. ``If they can't identify a need to be collecting it, they should take the necessary steps to eliminate it.''

Subject: RE: BS: Not just viruses you need to worry about
From: Joan from Wigan
Date: 14 Feb 02 - 03:33 AM

Thanks for posting that article, Guest. Food for thought for conspiracy watchers everywhere...

Joan

Subject: RE: BS: Not just viruses you need to worry about
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 14 Feb 02 - 04:00 AM

I saw on the news (which doesn't mean it's true) that Comcast has now said they will discontinue this. Which doesn't stop somebody else from doing it. Could be the Golden Age of the Internet is ending. So it goes.

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Not just viruses you need to worry about
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 14 Feb 02 - 05:20 AM

Columnist John C. Dvorak, in his Inside Track column in the February 26, 2002 PC Magazine reminds readers that there are a number of infamous sites that download "cookies" that trace your web activity and report it back. These "trojan" cookies usually come from the pop-up adds, although a few sites also dump them on you.

The majority of "cookies" are meant to be helpful, but if you have a "doubleclick" or "valueclick" - or a number of others - on your machine, you are being "tracked."

Mr. Dvorak suggests Ad-Aware, which is a free download (www.lavasoftusa.com in case my clicky doesn't work) and which will scan your machine for any known "trojan" cookies.

Note that these "cookies" are not viruses - and your antivirus software will not detect/disable them. They're just scum that you'd probably rather not have on your machine.

The maker of this program is German, and the translation to English on help and info files is a little "spotty," but the software runs cleanly on my Win98 and Win2000 machines - and it detected all of the "trojan" cookies I knew I had picked up in the past day of web use. (I usually delete cookies - except mudcat's - daily.)

The free version is described as a "beta," although it appears to be an earlier version of the shareware ($15 US) Ad-Aware Plus which is also available at the site.

The truly paranoid (Mr. Dvorak's term) may want to also look at www.spycop.com for programs to find and delete "keystroke tracers." I haven't been there yet, but will probably look at their stuff in the next couple of days.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Not just viruses you need to worry about
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Feb 02 - 07:46 AM

Hi John,

Yeah, I've been somewhat slack about my on-line security of late--I've been looking at the Ad-Aware thing too, but haven't downloaded it. Normally I don't do a lot of websurfing, so the cookie issue isn't that big of a deal for me. But I've been doing on-line research at home lately, so I guess the time has come to get back to it.

I try and keep abreast of the latest security stuff on about a twice yearly basis or so. I'll research everything, look at what's new and what seems reasonable for my uses. I'm good at keeping up with the virus alert stuff (we had a worm virus last fall), but I am more lax about the tracking stuff.

Stories like the one above give me just one more good reason to research in the library instead of on-line at home! Of course, I also don't believe that Comcast is the only corporation tracking us.

Joan from Wigan, if you think this stuff is just conspiracy theory paranoia, I have some Enron stock I'll sell you for cheap.

Subject: RE: BS: Not just viruses you need to worry about
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Feb 02 - 11:40 AM

I use the beta version of Ad-aware and have found it to be one of the easiest programs I've ever used, incluidng downloading and installing. Interesting to see what it catches.

I will be contacting at&t broadband internet to see what they might be doing, if they'll admit it whatever it is.:-)

Thanks,

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Not just viruses you need to worry about
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 Feb 02 - 11:52 AM

I've been using Ad-aware for several months now. Easy and fast scan. Both Doubleclick and Valueclick are persistent little B*****Ds. They pop on just about every time I go on line, but they're easy to get rid of--until they pop on the next time. #%$@*&#! Gotta keep on top of it all the time.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Not just viruses you need to worry about
From: GUEST,Mr Red - ping safe at the local library.
Date: 14 Feb 02 - 12:06 PM

Yea I get some curious modem splats & disk zaps when there should be nothing, like filling-in thread boxes. Iwas told that hackers and presumeably data spongers can ping you anytime your online just see whats there. Thereafter what do they do with the info? How much can they read? There is a lot of myth but this one has substance, how much?

Subject: Not just bollox you need to worry about
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 14 Feb 02 - 12:32 PM

If tracking my internet movements improves my service, please do...

It begs the question, what'a ya got to hide??

I don't use a credit card online... I don't have a password to anything important online... So track me... What's the big deal?

"if you think this stuff is just conspiracy theory paranoia"

Heh! Got yer hat lined with tinfoil? LOL! Maybe you should try shiny side out...

And well, anybody who doesn't do something that A?O,HELL! does gets full marks in my book...

Subject: RE: BS: Not just viruses you need to worry about
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Feb 02 - 01:10 PM

Clinton,

Many of us do a lot of business on-line, so the security issues are important. Any one who considers on-line security issues to be paranoia/conspiracy theory has their head in the sand.

Subject: RE: BS: Not just viruses you need to worry about
From: MMario
Date: 14 Feb 02 - 01:18 PM

also - given proper conditions they can read data from your workstation. Do your taxes on computer? Keep business financials on the computer?

Subject: RE: BS: Not just viruses you need to worry about
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Feb 02 - 01:24 PM

Using a credit card online makes life a lot easier if you live out in the boonies and have to order most of what you want or need, barring what podunck little town grocers have on their shelves. Security issues and being aware of them are important.

Clinton, you may think you have nothing to hide, but I believe we are seeing a new McCarthyism on the rise and lots of screenwriters and actors, etc. though they had nothing to hide either, back then. I know you are not in the US, but using terrorism as an excuse, the governments of most countries are going to be, or already are, watching and gathering more info; cell phones, and the internet, plus those damn savings cards at the grocery stores make it easier for them. You joke about pornography...some day you might get called on it, who knows? I'd prefer to be aware and watch my back now, rather than later.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Not just viruses you need to worry about
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 14 Feb 02 - 01:26 PM

"McCarthyism" aka rampant paranoia...

"on-line security"

It's an illusion...

Subject: RE: BS: Not just viruses you need to worry about
From: GUEST,Shanelle
Date: 14 Feb 02 - 01:27 PM

Why would something thing that the tracking technology is being used to improve user technology? That isn't what it is being used for at all. The so-called "business applications" are for companies to make money selling the data that has been collected through tracking, and for obnoxious businesses to use the information for target marketing.

And then of course, there are the much darker uses governments and other "security" institutions are secretly using the technology for too.

kat--I have AT&T Broadband, I've asked, and they have refused to give me the information.

BTW, AT&T Broadband (and Direct TV) are also major players in the on-line, cable, and satellite porn industry.

Subject: RE: BS: Not just viruses you need to worry about
From: Grab
Date: 14 Feb 02 - 01:37 PM

The odd thing is, it doesn't make much sense to track it individually. Collectively, yes - if a zillion ppl call up the Mudcat, then it makes sense to hand out a single buffered version, so you take the strain on the local server instead of the Mudcat server. But individually for each person - I can't see how that would help. Hmm.

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Not just viruses you need to worry about
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Feb 02 - 01:39 PM

Thanks, Shanelle.

Clinton, McCarthyism was real and can be traced by its history. Yes, McCarthy was paranoid and yes, many government entities are just that, today. Are we to ignore that? I don't believe myself to be paranoid, but rather informed and cautious. I don't appreciate being lumped in with the likes of McCarthy. A lot us are just the types of folks the nowaday McCarthy types would like to control.

Subject: RE: BS: Not just viruses you need to worry about
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Feb 02 - 01:39 PM

Perhaps it doesn't make sense to you Graham, because you don't know much about the industry that collects data?