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BS: Feverfew - hangover cure or myth?

Mr Red 18 Feb 02 - 11:55 AM
Dicho (Frank Staplin) 18 Feb 02 - 01:58 PM
Jeri 18 Feb 02 - 03:29 PM
Mr Red 18 Feb 02 - 06:02 PM
Anahootz 18 Feb 02 - 06:02 PM
Clinton Hammond 18 Feb 02 - 08:49 PM
Jeri 18 Feb 02 - 09:22 PM
Ella who is Sooze 19 Feb 02 - 04:14 AM
Gillie 19 Feb 02 - 04:46 AM
mack/misophist 19 Feb 02 - 09:24 AM
Morticia 19 Feb 02 - 06:00 PM
Jeri 19 Feb 02 - 06:09 PM
Mr Red 19 Feb 02 - 06:27 PM
GUEST,Melani 19 Feb 02 - 06:33 PM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 19 Feb 02 - 06:40 PM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 19 Feb 02 - 06:42 PM
cyder_drinker 19 Feb 02 - 06:47 PM
Desdemona 19 Feb 02 - 06:47 PM
NicoleC 19 Feb 02 - 06:56 PM
Jeri 19 Feb 02 - 07:58 PM
Kaleea 20 Feb 02 - 12:48 AM
NicoleC 20 Feb 02 - 11:30 AM
Morticia 20 Feb 02 - 03:04 PM
Mr Red 20 Feb 02 - 03:52 PM
Jeri 20 Feb 02 - 05:08 PM
Morticia 20 Feb 02 - 06:42 PM
GUEST 20 Feb 02 - 07:04 PM
Mr Red 21 Feb 02 - 06:18 PM
Mr Red 24 Feb 02 - 11:26 AM
Menita 24 Feb 02 - 02:00 PM
GUEST,sandella 02 Mar 02 - 02:57 PM
Mr Red 02 Mar 02 - 07:24 PM

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Subject: Feverfew - hangover cure or myth?
From: Mr Red
Date: 18 Feb 02 - 11:55 AM

Not so much for a hangover as perhaps an allergy to alcohol!!
Well that's the question
the background is advice from Sean, so it is. And if Sean says it I want another opinion. So I do.
Firstly are there any toxicity issues, like with Chamomile?
Secondly has anyone any experience with the efficacy?
Is it vaso-dilatory?

As Sean described the symptoms of pain behind the eyes, and the shutting down of the capilliaries, where feverfew would reverse the process I was curious. Or sometimes a pain above the eyes, a sort of sinisitus. It seems worse on damper colder days.

Just to put it in perspective one can of 6% ABV cider will invoke the problem next morning. Sean drinks Guiness so I don't think it is Apple-ation!
Your Soberly
Mr Red but not redeyed,


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Subject: RE: BS: Feverfew - hangover cure or myth?
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Feb 02 - 01:58 PM

Tanacetum parthenium (feverfew) is an herbal remedy for headache, esp. migraine. Do not use in pregnancy, Mr Red!
It also acts as a stimulant. Do not use if vasodilators are contra-indicated by your physician.
Some people are very sensitive to it and develop mouth ulcers and stomach pain. May cause nosebleed in some people.
Try a couple of acetamenophen (generic Tylenol) and lots of water (no, water isn't toxic). Probably safer.


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Subject: RE: BS: Feverfew - hangover cure or myth?
From: Jeri
Date: 18 Feb 02 - 03:29 PM

I've never hear it was very effective in treating headaches. It hasn't been for me. However, it's been a life saver for me in preventing migraines. It's worked as well as the drugs doctors prescribed and I've had no side effects.

Feverfew prevents the constriction of blood vessels, it doesn't actually cause their dilation. It can have toxic effects - it can inhibit smooth muscle function. (I think the heart is smooth muscle.) I'm not sure what dosage over what period of time leads to this toxic effect. This site has a searchable database of many dietary supplements, including herbs, with links to many articals. (It's down at the moment, or I would have linked to the article about the study on smooth muscle function in bunny rabbits.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Feverfew - hangover cure or myth?
From: Mr Red
Date: 18 Feb 02 - 06:02 PM

Water works - not, waterworks working fine, all nightlong!!!
Actually plenty of water has a small effect but less so as time rolls by, and the constant waking is definitely a contra-indication.
This is not for over-indulgance. If I told my physician that it was the cider I'm sure he would have an answer, I am already there before him. I used to reckon one asprin and a pint of water before bed would succesfully compensate for the third 330 ml can of 3.5% ABV. Right now I am nearly TT
It looks like the information I want is flowing-in TIA to the next postees.
Now for that blickie above.


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Subject: RE: BS: Feverfew - hangover cure or myth?
From: Anahootz
Date: 18 Feb 02 - 06:02 PM

Gimme aspirin and gatorade, that's the only way to undo the fun


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Subject: RE: BS: Feverfew - hangover cure or myth?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 18 Feb 02 - 08:49 PM

Suck it up and get on with your day!

THAT'S how you cure a hangover...

As you mentioned before, if you're getting THIS wrecked up on 3 measly cans of 3.5% beer, you're probably right... it's probably that you're allergic to booze...

Think of the money you'll save!


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Subject: RE: BS: Feverfew - hangover cure or myth?
From: Jeri
Date: 18 Feb 02 - 09:22 PM

This article, from The Journal of Neuropsychiatry, has some information. (You'll have to scroll down because they talk about a few different herbal treatments.) Now that I can get into the search at the link I posted above, the only article I found with even an abstract was the one on the bunnies. (I didn't click on all of them, though.)

It might be the alcohol, or it may be something else in there such as preservatives or grains. You have the same thing happen with other forms of booze?


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Subject: RE: BS: Feverfew - hangover cure or myth?
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 19 Feb 02 - 04:14 AM

I'd fully recommend Iron Bru for it's wonderful hangover cure qualities. Not the diet stuff, but the jammed full o sugar (full fat) stuff.

E


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Subject: RE: BS: Feverfew - hangover cure or myth?
From: Gillie
Date: 19 Feb 02 - 04:46 AM

Hi Mr Red,

Sorry to hear about the problem you are having. As already stated the hangover problem is caused by dehydration. The best bet is to drink lots of water before going to bed.

This sounds like it is a recent problem, and not one that you have always had. The body plays tricks on you as you get older and changes. I didn't suffer from hayfever until I was about 32. It could be that you have developed an allergy, not just to alcohol but to something else in your diet. I would say to explore all avenues.

Gillie


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Subject: RE: BS: Feverfew - hangover cure or myth?
From: mack/misophist
Date: 19 Feb 02 - 09:24 AM

Alcohol itself will cause a hangover. But many of the other things included may make one worse. Try drinking something else.


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Subject: RE: BS: Feverfew - hangover cure or myth?
From: Morticia
Date: 19 Feb 02 - 06:00 PM

Feverfew gave me mouth ulcers so back to migraines and heavy chemicals to cure them. I concur with Gillie, it may not be the alcohol but something else you have become allergic to.....try keeping a food diary for a while.


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Subject: RE: BS: Feverfew - hangover cure or myth?
From: Jeri
Date: 19 Feb 02 - 06:09 PM

Morticia, I'm just curious. What form of feverfew were you taking?


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Subject: RE: BS: Feverfew - hangover cure or myth?
From: Mr Red
Date: 19 Feb 02 - 06:27 PM

Buuuuuuut Gillie
I didn't know last year's problems was hayfever ***BG***
I prepared a bit and I may have spotted something new but where it takes me I'm not sure yet but ......

Three cheers for the SOED CD ROM.  Reading the pages I did find (blickie was not working last night) on feverfew I had to consult every other word at times.  But one article mentioned aspartame in the context of migrane.  **bingo**
aka aspartic acid  viz.
an acidic amino acid, COOH·CH2·CH(NH2)·COOH, which occurs in proteins and esp. in sugar cane, and is important in nitrogen metabolism in animals.  (= low calorie sweetener)
If this is the culprit then the results are very much OOOOH·OOOOH·OOOOH rather than COOH·CH2·COOH·CH2·COOH **notso BG**
Joyce (Johhny Collins' shipmate) reckons she sussed her migraine/Woodpecker link when she saw Bulmers no longer make cider. The legal definition is "milled from apples", any other adulterous substances have to be listed as incredients like "added sugars & sweeteners". Just for comparison; "shandy" is not beer, OK?
So why don't I drink only Tesco's own brand cider? I do 1 litre has been known to not affect me. But that is not predictable & the nectar is being marginalised, instead of easy to secrete cans, now only 2 litre slugs. I fear extinction in favour of a yet cheaper own brand (with added crappos). AND I don't somehow see yer average real ale pub charging me corkage on my cider.
Red wine has been a no no for years, and it gets worse during daylight hours (cue seratonin).
But is all this FOLK?  yes, yes, yes, cider is a traditional ENGLISH custom.  Yea, yea, so are hangovers!


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Subject: RE: BS: Feverfew - hangover cure or myth?
From: GUEST,Melani
Date: 19 Feb 02 - 06:33 PM

Try vitamin B before bed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Feverfew - hangover cure or myth?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 19 Feb 02 - 06:40 PM

The best cure for a hangover is half a bottle of rum (Lambs Navy Rum), I rarely drink sporits nowadays but this works for me, also if yo are an alcoholic dont take asparin (it is bad for your stomach), take Co-proxamol or co-co domol instead.john


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Subject: RE: BS: Feverfew - hangover cure or myth?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 19 Feb 02 - 06:42 PM

(paracetomol is bad for you as well, it is bad for your liver, which is already worn out).


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Subject: RE: BS: Feverfew - hangover cure or myth?
From: cyder_drinker
Date: 19 Feb 02 - 06:47 PM

If it's in a can, it ain't real cider, and is probably loaded up with preservatives and artificial additives.
Avoid. Like the plague.
If I am ever reduced to drinking Blackthorn or Strongbow I get similar symptoms - but 8 pints of Taunton Trad or Thatchers (Real ciders) and I'm bright and breezy in the morning.


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Subject: RE: BS: Feverfew - hangover cure or myth?
From: Desdemona
Date: 19 Feb 02 - 06:47 PM

This is a quest that dates far into the dim & distant past; while I'm certainly not a classicist(!), I know this was an issue that vexed the minds of the ancients! For instance, the Greeks believed you wouldn't get a hangover next day if you wore a garland of parsley on your head while you were out drinking the night before. Hmmm....

In mediaeval times there was very little, if any, distinction made between "receipts" for food & medicines; the two are generally found together. There are more remedies for hangover than there are for pottage (the staple "whatever's on hand" stew of the average person's diet)! There's one that calls for raw eels and bitter almonds ground into a paste(yum!), beer seethed with fennel and cabbage, and any number of herbal decoctions designed to aid in "dispelling of the wind"!

The search for the perfect hangover cure would appear to be as eternal as that for World Peace, and just as difficult to find!

D.


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Subject: RE: BS: Feverfew - hangover cure or myth?
From: NicoleC
Date: 19 Feb 02 - 06:56 PM

If you are only suffering these effects after a night of drinking, it doesn't sound like a food intolerance as much as it is an effect of being a lightweight. (Yeah, me too. Didn't used to be. Oh well.)

If it is just a hangover, it will help to drink water all night (2 glasses per one serving of alcohol is best, but many folks don't drink that much water). Sugar also tends to buffer the effects of a hangover -- which I don't really understand since sugar is also a dehydrating agent. Coffee is counter-productive, as it dehydrates the body further.


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Subject: RE: BS: Feverfew - hangover cure or myth?
From: Jeri
Date: 19 Feb 02 - 07:58 PM

I used to get hangovers like everyone else. Now, if I drink enough to get a headache, it is always a migraine. A couple of drinks won't do it, and sometimes even help when I'm having a migraine. (They say drink is bad, but it's a vasodilator, right?)

Many people who get migraines have all sorts of food triggers. Anything fermented is likely to be on the list of no-nos. The reason I asked about other forms of alcohol doing the same thing is that I believe much of the other stuff left after fermentation would be removed in distilled products. (Am I wrong? Just guessing.)

I was on a couple different types of drug therapy for prevention of migraines. It was a doctor who tipped me off about feverfew, and it works as well, if not better for preventing migraines, as Elavil or Prozac, with no side effects. I had every side effect in the book, plus a few extras, with those drugs. I had to do a bit of research in order to convince my neurologist it was effective. Feverfew doesn't work for everyone or for all types of migraines. For prevention, it may take up to several months to become effective. That's why I don't think taking it for abortive treatment (making an existing headache go away) of migraines would work very well.

If it were me, I'd probably try switching to another type of booze, or as cyder_drinker said, a different brand of cider, or not drinking (oh my!).


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Subject: RE: BS: Feverfew - hangover cure or myth?
From: Kaleea
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 12:48 AM

Don't know about feverfew, as there are several potential problems know to stem from misusing it, but recent studies agree with the water & aspirin theory as helping, but not curing. Some folks are unaware that the ever popular 7-UP was invented for the purpose of (allegedly) being able to drink the bathtub gin & be a veritible party animal (in the prohibition times) & then get up at 7 am, drink 7UP, & be off to work. I suppose one might give it a try, however the only absolute, surefire, never fail cure for hangovers is to not drink alcohol.


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Subject: RE: BS: Feverfew - hangover cure or myth?
From: NicoleC
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 11:30 AM

Yes, but back then 7-UP was a vile concoction that included horseradish. Whoo-ee, that would wake ME up in the morning!

Maybe you should try eating horseradish for your hangover cure :)


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Subject: RE: BS: Feverfew - hangover cure or myth?
From: Morticia
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 03:04 PM

Jeri, I took the tablet form of feverfew from a health food shop.They caused a strange, tender-ish feeling in my mouth and an odd taste and then BINGO, a mouth full of ulcers....well, at least I assumed there was a connection. BTW, one of the best hangover cures I know is Dioralyte...a fluid usually taken after a severe dose of the green apple two-step that replces electrolytes and minerals....works well if you can stomach the vile stuff.


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Subject: RE: BS: Feverfew - hangover cure or myth?
From: Mr Red
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 03:52 PM

Horseraddish? On the principle if cure of the cause?

Looks like Feverfew gets an "F" for favourite & has fewer side fevers. Tylenol gets at least one "T" for toxicity. Now for the biggie, does it work? Watch this space for redux or reduction of Mr Red.


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Subject: RE: BS: Feverfew - hangover cure or myth?
From: Jeri
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 05:08 PM

Morticia, thanks for replying. Mouth ulcers are the only side effect I've read about. The articles I've seen associate the ulcers with chewing the leaves. Obviouly it's not so, and therefore probably not caused by contact with some substance in the leaves.

One remedy folks I knew who worked in emergency rooms used was oxygen. They'd take a few hits of the almost pure stuff and claimed it helped. I'd think if it did work, the effects wouldn't last very long.


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Subject: RE: BS: Feverfew - hangover cure or myth?
From: Morticia
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 06:42 PM

I've heard of that too Jeri, especially combined with ibuprofen or generic anti-inflammatory drugs....got the bomb disposal squad in the UK on their feet a time or two apparently.


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Subject: RE: BS: Feverfew - hangover cure or myth?
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 07:04 PM

Terri,

re: Stony Stratford:

I apologise for finding you attractive - I didn't wish to revive a dead thread


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Subject: RE: BS: Feverfew - hangover cure or myth?
From: Mr Red
Date: 21 Feb 02 - 06:18 PM

Day two of the "capsules" and the psychosomatics put something in my mouth within hours and it wasn't words. Definitely a difference there, I perceive several mucus zones are affected. No alcohol yet. Maybe less noise in my ears, and watching for nosebleeds as I have seen reports and for me that is an issue. Otherwise everything tickety boo and far too early to draw conclusions.


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Subject: RE: BS: Feverfew - hangover cure or myth?
From: Mr Red
Date: 24 Feb 02 - 11:26 AM

day four and disaster. I read somewhere feverfew can cause nausea - so can migraine - so they did - doubly so, from the retched (sick (sic)) experience. So it's a)Tescos b)Rye & dry (Accadien) c)get a consult from the quack d)TT.
Tick 2 of above
as for feverfew without boring you with the details, the data were sufficiently instructive and not encouraging in my case.
Ho Hum.


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Subject: RE: BS: Feverfew - hangover cure or myth?
From: Menita
Date: 24 Feb 02 - 02:00 PM

Mr. Red are you suffering? I suffer terribly with migraine, probably be the heat out here. When I first feel pain I put two Bryonia(6) under my tongue then 20 mins later have 2 Anadin Extra. Seems to work at the moment. Could work for a hangover as well.


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Subject: RE: BS: Feverfew - hangover cure or myth?
From: GUEST,sandella
Date: 02 Mar 02 - 02:57 PM

Where are you Mr.Red? What news from the headache front?


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Subject: RE: BS: Feverfew - hangover cure or myth?
From: Mr Red
Date: 02 Mar 02 - 07:24 PM

Quack prognosticates - a) a cluster migraine - b) alcohol as a trigger is not unknown. c) Prescribes Pzotifen, taken daily. d) Assures me there are no contra-indications with alcohol.
first thing I see when I open the bag? A label with the warning "May cause drowsiness, if so do not drive. Avoid alcohol."
Great! not a session within an hours walk!
Feverfew I have regarded as wrong on the grounds of double nausea. Pizotifen needs a second opinion
time was when dancing gave me more immunity but not now. Time was when if I braved day 2 of the festival I didn't have to worry the rest of the w/e. Ask me at Chippenham, we have two Bank Holidays.
Lucy Ann - I prefer a boring diet - so most likely triggers are out of it, except cold weather (always wear a hat), wet hair (use hair drier now), pigging a whole loaf of fresh homebake bread, and mushrooms fried in butter (??), and a shitty job (no more), not much help to others generally.
Thanks for the interest but I mostly blame the booze & if that is the worst it can throw at me I am a happy bunny most days. Will chase Bryonia along with Pizoartistofen.


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Mudcat time: 9 August 10:28 PM EDT

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