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Sourdough - 10 days in Ireland
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Subject: Sourdough - 10 days in Ireland From: Sourdough Date: 18 Feb 02 - 02:12 PM No motorcycle vacation this time, Mrs. 'dough and I are leaving California and heading for Ireland on March 8th. The plan is to drive (For better or for worse, I have decided to sit in the passenger seat and try driving on the other side of the road) a yet to be determined route that will end us up in Dublin the weekend of the 15th and then to leave for home on St. Patrick's Day. I have explained to her that my idea of a fine time will be to make sure that we end up each night at a pub where there is singing. During the day, she can choose the route. For her part, she has been showing interest in learning to play the fiddle recently and now that the trip to Ireland is booked, she (a native of a small Bavarian town) is walking around the house singing "Wild Rover" and a variety of other Irish songs from a CD I compiled for her. So, why am I telling you all about this? When I was leaving for my cross-America motorcycle trip last year, I asked for suggestions as to where to stop and what to do. One of them came from Catspaw who suggested a visit to the Appalachian Cultural Museum in Norris, Tennessee. It was an inspired suggestion and turned out to be one of the highlights of my trip so, once again, I am going to see if I can successfully tap the knowledge base of this group. I do have more interests than just music and would love any suggestions for this trip on such topics as: How to find a pub with singing in small towns as well as large - Museums, especially in Dublin I love the British Museum. What is the equivalent in Dublin? What is in the legitimate theaters now in Dublin? Any recommendations for a good play or musical? Along with Wilder and Shakespeare, my favorite English language plawright is GB Shaw. I hope to at least visit The Abbey Theater having learned much about its history while in Drama School. (My first professional appearance on stage was in a play by Yeats. THe leading actor was also someone making his professional debut on the NY stage, Martin Sheen - now he is doing television commercials for visiting Ireland, the home of his mother) Yes, I know that there are guidebooks and we have several kilos of them - but there is something about personal enthusiasms that is even better than the organized information in a carefully prepared guidebook. So, suggestions are welcomed and I'll be looking forward to what comes back. Sourdough |
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Subject: RE: Sourdough - 10 days in Ireland From: Greycap Date: 18 Feb 02 - 02:32 PM Sourdough, The Lobby bar in Cork City - check the net/ website . A great place for music |
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Subject: RE: Sourdough - 10 days in Ireland From: Mickey191 Date: 18 Feb 02 - 03:59 PM Kilmainham Jail is a must if you have any interest in Irish history. It has a well conducted tour & isn't expensive. I put it on a par with Gettysburg for emotional impact. Trinity College and it's Book Of Kells is a yawn. (IMO) Have a great trip. Slainte! |
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Subject: RE: Sourdough - 10 days in Ireland From: chordstrangler Date: 18 Feb 02 - 04:01 PM Should you happen to find yourself anywhere down in Kerry you would be more than welcome to come to the launch of my new CD which is happening in John B'Keane's pub in Listowel on March 16. John B is Ireland's premier playwright having written "Sive" and "The Field" and has a play running on Broadway at the moment. John B is featured on the CD singing two of his songs and the celebrations which will involve hosts of musicians will go on for the entire weekend. You would be more than welcome if you find yourself anywhere in the area. Best wishes and enjoy the trip....Mickey |
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Subject: RE: Sourdough - 10 days in Ireland From: GUEST,Bill Kennedy Date: 18 Feb 02 - 04:51 PM check out irish music magazine for fairly complete list of sessions all over Ireland, also don't miss Chester Beatty Library (museum) in Dublin, other suggestinos will folow Bill Kennedy |
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Subject: RE: Sourdough - 10 days in Ireland From: MartinRyan Date: 18 Feb 02 - 05:32 PM Friday 15th, if you're in Dublin as you plan, head for "Mayes Pub" in North Fredrick Street (very close to city centre). That's where the Goleen Singers Club is, currently. Get there about 10 p.m. or so and brace yourself for 2 or 3 hours of unaccmpanied singing! I may well be there myself. More generally for music, head for Hughes's pub in Chancery Street or the Cobblestone in Smithfield, as recommended in earlier threads. Regards p.s. Where else are you heading? |
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Subject: RE: Sourdough - 10 days in Ireland From: MartinRyan Date: 18 Feb 02 - 05:40 PM BTW: hold off from buying CD's of singing till you get there. There's always a good selection of traditional singing albums for sale - at good (for Ireland) prices. Regards |
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Subject: RE: Sourdough - 10 days in Ireland From: GUEST,greg stephens Date: 18 Feb 02 - 05:45 PM go to the Lobby in Cork for sure, but for the real experience go into Charlie's, which is nextdoor to the Lobby on Union Quay, on a Mondaynight and hear Hank Wedel and Ray Barron playing. you wont regret it!! Mooneys in Ring, County waterford, is definitelyworth a detour as well. |
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Subject: RE: Sourdough - 10 days in Ireland From: boglion Date: 18 Feb 02 - 06:51 PM If you get as far as Dingle in County Kerry (God's County) you could try O'Flahery's or An Drochaid Beag for good sessions. If you should wander over the Conor Pass (Ireland's highest) to my village of Cloghane check out O'Connor's (also does accommodation - tel 00353 66 7138113 ) and Tig Tomsi. Slainte! |
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Subject: RE: Sourdough - 10 days in Ireland From: Allan S Date: 18 Feb 02 - 08:05 PM Hi there you old Hooter Hope you have a great trip and get to hear sone good singing. I will keep you informed as to the date of the next Yale Hoot reunion. Get to see Dave Kippith every so often when he gets down to this end of the country to play w/ Rosenthall and his gang Allan S. |
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Subject: RE: Sourdough - 10 days in Ireland From: GUEST,Mac Date: 19 Feb 02 - 07:59 AM Sourdough...why not visit the world famous Giant's Causeway near Bushmills in Co.Antrim, Nrn.Ireland.....you can always call in at THE distillery in Bushmills and sample some 'BLACK BUSH'!!! |
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Subject: RE: Sourdough - 10 days in Ireland From: GUEST,Raffles the amateur craicsman Date: 19 Feb 02 - 08:15 AM Good luck Mr and Mrs Dough in your search for a good night out. A fine way to make sure you make friends at Irish pub sessions is to buy a nice big bodhran each, preferably with a "celtic" style pattern painted on the skin. Then join in as loud as you can with anyone singing or playing tunes. you will soon have many treasured memories of the old sod to take back home. Give it the lash! |
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Subject: RE: Sourdough - 10 days in Ireland From: GUEST Date: 19 Feb 02 - 08:26 AM And don`t forget the great fleadh of Drumcree, Derryadd Sam. |
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Subject: RE: Sourdough - 10 days in Ireland From: Fiolar Date: 19 Feb 02 - 09:04 AM The National Museum in Dublin is probably the equivelant of the British Museum although a bit smaller. It shows some of the National Treasures which have been discovered over the years, including (when I visited) the full skeleton of a Viking warrior. What so special about that you may wonder? Well when the fellow was alive he must have been all of seven feet. Outside of Dublin, try a visit to Newgrange which is older than the pyramids. Further south don't forget the Cliffs of Moher and if you have time, take a detour to some of the many memorials in Cork to the War of Independence such as Crossbarry, or Kilmichael which gave voice to the songs "The Piper of Crossbarry" and "The Boys of Kilmichael." Good luck |
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Subject: RE: Sourdough - 10 days in Ireland From: GUEST Date: 19 Feb 02 - 12:05 PM For Dublin Theatre go here: http://dublin.local.ie/general/theatre/index.shtml I wouldn't say the Abbey is the best. Wouldn't know what to recommend, as it is a matter of taste. Irish equivalent of the British Museum is the National Museum. Here is an excellent link, the Irish Times Visitor Guide: http://www.ireland.com/dublin/visitor/museums/index.htm There is an Impressionist exhibit that is supposed to be quite good running right now at the National Gallery of Ireland, website here: http://www.nationalgallery.ie/ There are also excellent bus tours of Dublin available at the Tourist Office on O'Connell St.--a must for folks with limited time. It allows you to jump on & off the bus on YOUR schedule, not theirs! Go here for your live view of O'Connell St!: http://www.ireland.com/dublin/visitor/live_view/ And of course, you must have a nice relaxing rest after your shopping and sightseeing, at Bewley's on Grafton St--it is a Dublin institution! The music calendar in Ireland runs from April-October, so you'll be a bit early for most music and dance events, including one of the highlights of the Irish traditional singing calendar, the Inishowen International Folksong and Ballad seminar, website here: http://pages.prodigy.net/folkmusic/inishowenseminar.htm Though you will be there for the great Corofin Traditional Music Festival, website here: http://www.corofin.eu.com/ Both of the above has cream of the crop musicians. An Goilin/Goleen Club website (out of date) here: http://www.setdance.com/goilin/goilin.htm Excellent choice, but you may miss it if you aren't in Dublin on the night. When you land on the ground, get a copy of "In Dublin" magazine, as it has the most complete listings of trad music, with phone numbers for the pubs so you can call in advance to see if what is in the "What's On" section is actually on before you pay your taxi fare. Pubs in Dublin (besides the good suggestion of the Goleen Club and Hughes, which is at the back of the Four Courts) are O'Donohues, Slattery's, An Beal Bocht, and the Harcourt Hotel. All are found in or very near An Lar/City Centre, and easy to get to by taxi or on foot. Since we don't know where you will be outside Dublin (you didn't say) it is nigh on impossible to direct you anywhere. I suggest you plan carefully in advance on where you will be each night, as 10 days isn't much time, and it is incredibly easy to waste it believing that going solo and being spontaneous will be at all productive and a good use of your travel budget. I suggest emailing the organizations/venues in advance of going if at all possible for a list of events in the areas you plan to visit. Since you didn't say if you would be going to the North (you should you know!) I haven't included much there. CCE's website in Ireland has email contacts, very useful for contacting in advance for music events in local areas you might be visiting: http://www.comhaltas.com For fiddle music, there are tons of choices, but here are some I would suggest investigating. For Donegal fiddle sessions, go here: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/6464/session.html For Sligo, go to the Coleman Irish Music Centre website: http://www.colemanirishmusic.com/html/eventguide.html For a list of Galway area music pubs, go here: http://www.galway.net/galwayguide/pub/music/trad/
Belfast Gig Guide: http://gigs.belfastcitylive.com/Belfast_gigguide/belfast_gig_guide.htm Dublin Gig Guide: http://gigs.gasta.ie/ Irish Times Dublin Live & Visitor Guide Page: http://www.ireland.com/dublin/ An excellent on-line guide to Dublin is here: http://www.houseofireland.com/dubguide/dubguide.htm Even if you are leaving on the day, the St Patrick's Day Festival runs the 15th-18th, and the fesitval events are here: http://www.stpatricksday.ie/cms/events.html Temple Bar (Dubline) Gig Guide: http://php.tbmc.ie/gigguide/ Heritage Sites website of the Dept of Arts, Heritage, Gaeltacht & Islands follows below--it is excellent! Be sure to get the Heritage Card if you plan on going to a number of the sites--it will pay for itself in no time. Their excellent website also has links for each site. I would definitely recommend Newgrange, The Garden of Remembrance (the wonderful Irish Writer's Museum faces the garden), Kilmainhaim Gaol, Trinity College Library and the Book of Kells, and Waterways Visitor Centre for in and around Dublin, easy to make it to all of them in two days time if you plan in advance. Newgrange is a half day minimum, and buses leave from O'Connell St. Tourist Office. Also, there are beautiful national parks to visit, if you get beyond the pale: http://www.heritageireland.ie/en/frontpage.html
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Subject: RE: Sourdough - 10 days in Ireland From: Sourdough Date: 20 Feb 02 - 03:55 AM Thanks for the suggestions. I don't know why it is that suggestions from individuals, even ones I have never met, seem so personal but you all are helping us to put together a list. Greycap - Since it is likely that we will get to Cork, the Lobby Bar is a useful ssuggestion. Greg Stephens - If we get to the Lobby Bar, we'll go next door to Charley's, too. My wife, who has been to Ireland once before, was particularly fond of Waterford so we may be near Ring. We'll keep it in mind. Mickey 191 - Years ago, I read The Ginger Man by Donleavy. I am looking forward to seeing the locales described in the book. Never have read Finnegan's Wake, though. Maybe this would be a good time to do it. Chord Strangler - We've already arranged to be in Dublin the night of the 16th but I certainly appreciate the invitation and wish you well. I'm sorry we'll be missing the celebration of your new CD. Good luck! Bill Kennedy - your suggestion of how I can learn about sessions leads me to ask a basic question. What are sessions? Okay, I know what they are but what I really want to know is whether they are what we would call hoots or are they performances by "regulars"? Probably, it varies by site but I thought I would ask anyway. Martin Ryan - Thanks for the lead about Mayes Pub. You mentioned "earlier threads". What threads are those? I used to spend a lot of time on Mudcat but I have gotten so wrapped up in my work that I have had little time to spend here although I have missed it. Anyway, I didn't see the earlier threads. As for St. Patrick's Day being messy - hell, I'm from Boston. I have seen messy St. Patrick days!! Millwall - You've given me another reason to visit Dingle. Mac - We are going to have to decide how much of N. Ireland we will see. My Bavarian bride is not very enthusiastic about Northern Ireland. I don't think she has any particular reason for this, though. Raffles - Yes, well, thanks. And if you come to my area, I'll have some good advice for you to help you feel at home here. Guest - "fleadh of Drumcree, Derry and Sam". Perhaps you could translate. I can trade you phrases in Creole French or Surinamese Talky-Talky for the meaning of your sentence. Maybe I should have made it more clear. I am not Irish. I do not have Irish roots. My knowledge of Gaelic is non-existent. I love traditional American music and so Irish ballads, reels, etc are of special interest to me. So much of the energy and the nostalgic tone of American country music seems rooted in Ireland. Fiolar - I've been across the US more than a dozen times by motorcycle.Each time, I have looked at maps as I traveled and headed for places that appear in songs, just for the hell of it, to have a reasont o take a particular road. It's taken me to places I might never have seen otherwise, Big Rock Candy Mt. UT; lots of Red River Valleys; Lynchburg, VA; across the wide Missouri; Clinch Mt.; the Banks of the Ohio; from the redwood forests to the Gulf Stream waters, California and the New York Island - you get the idea. Looking at a map of Ireland, I can see that it would be difficult to travel 30 miles in any direction without coming across a place featured in a song. I'm going to enjoy that. Guest - WHat a terrific list of resources you provided. It will take me a while to take advantage of it. It looks great. One of them I had seen already, the live camera on O'Connell St. It is fun to "look in" and see the weather, the traffic, etc. Alan S. - GOod to hear from you. It's been a long time! What I would hope for more than anythijng else is to stumble into an Irish hoot of the type that we knew so well. That kind of informality, good friends and good music and welcoming to outsiders is what I hope to find. Once again, it was a pleasure, and well worth the 3,000 mile ride to come to the hoot in June. It also gave me the chance to tell John Cohen to his face how much pleasure I have gotten from the New Lost City Ramblers and to let him know that I have been able to share some of that with others. When I sat down in the circle with him, I didn't recopgnize him but as soon as he started to sing, I recognized him. Also, so many others were there -it was a very special evening. Thanks for making it possible. To all - My wife was amazed by the amount and quality of the suggestions. For her and for me, I think you. SOurdough
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Subject: RE: Sourdough - 10 days in Ireland From: GUEST,Mac Date: 20 Feb 02 - 05:01 AM Looks like 10 days won't be enough for you with the various suggestions! Try and come up and see us. Bavarians are more than welcome! Whatever you do, enjoy yourselves. |
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Subject: RE: Sourdough - 10 days in Ireland From: GUEST,greg stephens Date: 20 Feb 02 - 05:31 AM yes, you are going to be busy following all that advice. you correctly spotted that Raffles was not being entirely helpful with his advice. I should be a little bit cautious about the Drumcree fleadh man, too. It's not what it was and probably not worth a special trip. as a matter of interest, what advice would you give these two guys if they were coming out your way? |
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Subject: RE: Sourdough - 10 days in Ireland From: GUEST Date: 20 Feb 02 - 09:00 AM Sessions aren't like a hoot, really. They are fairly formal in the sense that there is a session etiquette, and outsiders usually aren't invited to play, unless they come with one of the regulars. Most sessions won't tolerate singing--they are instrumental only. So, regardless of the "Ireland of the Thousand Welcomes" propaganda, the session scene is often elitist, and beginners and newcomers are almost always viewed with suspicion. Even though the scene has exploded in the last decade, Ireland is still a very small country, and the session scene is pretty incestuous. Ciaran Carson's marvelous little Appletree Press book, "Irish Traditional Music" says this about sessions: "It is virtually impossible, and possibly undesirable, to give a comprehensive Michelin-type guide to traditional music venues. Ostensibly regular sessions in pubs may vanish like snow off a ditch once they are publicised in any coherent way; they may lapse anyway, for no better reason than the musicians finding a more congenial venue. To some people, its comparitive inaccessibility, its waywardness, its sometimes underground nature, are part of the charm of the music; others are exasperated by it. Occasional frustration is not necessarily a bad thing; an important part of learning about music is finding it out for yourself, a process which may involve chance encounters on lonely mountain roads, complex negotiations of obscure verbal maps of neglected side-roads, crossroads, forks, hump-backed bridges and derelict garages; often, derelict pubs. The tourist in Ireland has only to ask and he will be directed towards something; whether or not it is what he thinks he is looking for is another matter." BTW, besides recommending Comhaltas (CCE) as I did above, I should also mention that out in the country, ask at the local tourist office. They nearly always can direct you to music sessions if there is one in the vicinity on the night you are there. But as I said, the "session season" for tourists doesn't really get going before April. The up side of that is, if you stumble into one, you'll likely be hearing the locals doing it their way, for their own enjoyment. Which beats the hell out of most sessions, especially the professional ones, any day. Good luck, safe journey to you, and enjoy Ireland! |
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Subject: RE: Sourdough - 10 days in Ireland From: Morticia Date: 20 Feb 02 - 06:52 PM If you get to Limerick, try The Spotted Dog...aside from sporting many of my close relatives...( not necesarily desirable)it also has a live music tradition, especially unaccompanied singing, or so I understand, not having been home in a long while.Anyway, the craic should be good, regardless. Good luck. |
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Subject: RE: Sourdough - 10 days in Ireland From: Fibula Mattock Date: 21 Feb 02 - 05:00 AM Hi Sourdough - there were a couple of threads last year where we discussed travelling round Ireland which might also be useful: Help: Irish holiday recommendations Irish mudcatters? Have a great time. |
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Subject: RE: Sourdough - 10 days in Ireland From: Fiolar Date: 21 Feb 02 - 08:26 AM One last piece of advice - get off the main tourist areas and try the side roads. There is a wealth of hidden treasures awaiting the adventurous traveller. |
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Subject: RE: Sourdough - 10 days in Ireland From: GUEST,Bill Kennedy Date: 21 Feb 02 - 09:03 AM Hey - posted yesterday but it didn't get through, try again, but perhaps without the polish of yesterday. All sessions are different, depending on the owner of the pub, the local infighting & politics, local traditions, etc. but pub etiquette is the same everywhere. Don't expect to sit in, no matter how good you are, but do show up with an instrument, someone may ask how it works and let you demonstrate it a little bit. Some sessions are still run as old fashioned hoolies, where all pub inhabitants are expected and encouraged to participate with a song or recitation of some kind, singing is still appreciated generally, especially country western and cowboy tunes in some areas. Don't be pushy, showy, or know-it-all-ish. Once you've made some friends, which you will do quickly enough, you will be drawn into the fun, may get invited to an old fashioned kitchen ceilidhe, where, again,in the old days everyone would be expected to contribute to the entertainment. As for Ciaran Carson DO GET a copy of 'Last Nights Fun' and read it before you go, write down some of the references in 'Irish Traditional Music' RTE in DUblin and CIC are great sources of recorded material, as well as videos, but make sure you get versions that are available in the American VHS system, not PAL, or you'll have to transfer them to watch when you get home! Irish Music mag does vet sessions, and may help you steer clear of the really stupid ones, or the really snobby ones, or the really touristy ones, to get to the real trad ones. Have a great trip and tell us all about it when you get back. Slanté Bill Kennedy |
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Subject: RE: Sourdough - 10 days in Ireland From: GUEST Date: 21 Feb 02 - 09:25 AM Bill, you have funny Irish spelling. |
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Subject: RE: Sourdough - 10 days in Ireland From: nosluap57 Date: 21 Feb 02 - 05:44 PM If you make it to Westport, County Mayo, go to Matt Malloy's (of Chieftans fame) When visiting there two years ago there was a singing session, led by a most delightful and funny older gentleman, PRIOR to the music (instumental) session, in the back room of the pub.
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Subject: RE: Sourdough - 10 days in Ireland From: GUEST,Martin Ryan Date: 22 Feb 02 - 04:53 AM This business of the singers getting their retaliation in first is becoming a habit! The monthly singers club in Galway (in the Crane Bar, third saturday, around 7 p.m.) does the same trick. Trouble is if you enjoy the instrumental music also then its hard to stay sober! More seriously: in terms of the Irish scene, the development of a network of singers clubs in recent years has undoubtedly increased awareness of people who can and will sing. While many sessions are still at the stage where the musicians reckon the main function of a song is to provide them with the opportunity for a smoke, a piss or a chat with their neighbour, more and more of them are keen to introduce songs for variety and try to ensure reasonable order. Long may it continue. Regards |
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Subject: RE: Sourdough - 10 days in Ireland From: beachcomber Date: 22 Feb 02 - 03:52 PM Sourdough, It occurs to me that, having just finished it myself, a read of "McCarthy's Pub" by English author Pete McCarthy, would give you a flavour of what it could be like to "ramble" around a bit in Ireland, off the beaten track, as some previous post suggests. Yes Mooney's in Ring, Co.Waterford is a great pub, but, at this time of year you should check out the nights that the sessions usually occur. Mind you, being Ring, a spontaneous bout of singing and playing can happen any old time. I know that, if you do not try to fit in too much, you will enjoy some good craic (note the spelling of that last word and be advised that it has nothing to do with anykind of white powder. Beidh failte rowat sa Rinn (There will be a welcome in Ring for you) Beachcomber |
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Subject: RE: Sourdough - 10 days in Ireland From: Sourdough Date: 24 Feb 02 - 04:13 PM Mrs. "dough has been busy with a map and with Teutonic thoroughness has been marking the places with suggestions on a map of Ireland. I am going to turn over the new suggestions to her for mapping. It does not look as though we will be going North (well, for ten days, you have to make some arbitrary decisions). Milwall, your suggestion looks particularly tempting out on a mountainous, rather remote looking penninsula. We did notice that there are a lot of lakes in the center of Ireland. Everywhere I know of, that is a sure sign of beuatiful countryside but on our map, the sceneic routes all stick pretty close to the shore. I am guessing that this is a shortcoming of the map and that the interior of Ireland is beautiful but I wonder why the map neglects to let us know this. Sourdough
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Subject: RE: Sourdough - 10 days in Ireland From: MartinRyan Date: 24 Feb 02 - 05:27 PM Just at the moment, the midlands is more of a lake than anything else! We've had lots of rain over the past month and the place is waterlogged. Much of the midlands is off the main tourist drag - its beauties are domestic in scale rather than monumental. They do exist - but take a little finding. Regards
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Subject: RE: Sourdough - 10 days in Ireland From: GUEST,dennis Date: 25 Feb 02 - 12:15 AM read with great interest all of the threads! brother and i are headed to dublin, than dingle area, then ??? for about 10 days in late april. would also be interested in any recommended acommodations from fellow mudcatters! thanks all. btw, just completed a great weekend at Tacoma's Wintergrass! Smokin!! |
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Subject: RE: Sourdough - 10 days in Ireland From: Ella who is Sooze Date: 25 Feb 02 - 10:17 AM Thread doo dah what's it... Chordstrangler - aka Mickey... If you see Eddie the Box Brown in Listowel (fine friend of mine from out Finuge way) please say a big hello from his pal in Wales... Sue... Cheers See you at the Fleadh (I reckons your're one o da fellas from the Harp and Lion..?) |
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Subject: RE: Sourdough - 10 days in Ireland From: Mr Red Date: 25 Feb 02 - 04:34 PM wasn't it from the singing of a Jimmy Miller? **BG** |
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