Origins: Patriot Game

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: ard mhacha
Date: 20 Apr 08 - 06:46 AM

Big Tim in a previous Thread inquired as to the meaning of `when Moneymore come round, and they will weep that their bold captain is nowhere to be found` in the song, `The Bantry girls lament`.
The term Moneymore could apply to a pattern or a fair, and the faction fights which took place at some fairs, mostly in the province of Munster, the captain was the term used to describe the leaders of the factions.
I have also seen Moneymore spelt as mon-na -hoor.
Delia Murphy was the first person I heard sing `The Bantry girls lament`

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: Jim McLean
Date: 20 Apr 08 - 09:35 AM

This topic has been covered in another thread where I related the discussion between myself and Dylan regarding Dominic's song. You only have to compare the lyrics of God on our Side to The Patriot Game to see that Dylan not only got the tune from Dominic's song (irrespective of whether it was traditional or not) but aped the words.

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 20 Apr 08 - 11:33 AM

Jim-
"Dylan not only got the tune from Dominic's song (irrespective of whether it was traditional or not) "..hard to claim that someone swiped a tune that's been traditional for many, many years. Even if Behan claimed it.

BTW, check out "Liam's Patriot Game" in Digitrad.

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: meself
Date: 20 Apr 08 - 12:20 PM

'check out "Liam's Patriot Game"' - Seems rather mean-spirited - or am I misinterpreting it?

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: GUEST,Joe (Waverley Station) Casey
Date: 20 Apr 08 - 05:55 PM

Jim,

Same Jim I met at Waverley Station on Friday evening ?

Next time I'll buy you pint, and we can sing the whole of 'Seven Deadly Sins' !

Cheers

Joe.

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: Jim McLean
Date: 20 Apr 08 - 06:02 PM

Dick, what I meant was that if you compare Dylan's verse ' Oh my name it means nothing, my age it means less' to Dominic's ' My name is O'Hanlon, my age is sixteen' etcetera (and excuse my not remembering the words exactly) it is obvious he was writing his song with Dominic's in mind. He asked me about the Patriot Game when he heard Nigel Denver singing it in the Troubadour way back and I explained what Dominic had in mind. So I'm not saying he swiped the tune, just that he used Dominic's song as a vehicle upon to which to fashion his own. I'm only stating the obvious.

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: GUEST,Greycap
Date: 20 Apr 08 - 06:27 PM

As a side issue, I had the privilege of being Dominic Behan's house guest for a week, together with my pal, the late Dave Brady, back in 1962 when we we both aspiring singers in London. We had been sleeping in Dave's car in Hyde Park due to financial caution (spend less on sleeping comfort, more on beer).
This kind and talented man met us at the Singer's Club, apparently thought we had some kinda potential, offered us house room for the week, great hospitality, and introduced us to some fine singers, Nigel Denver, Ramblin' Jack Elliot, Martin Carthy, etc.
I understood him to be the author of 'Patriot Game', not Brendan.
He taught us both great songs, as did Nigel Denver, which I still sing today. Where is Nigel, anyone know?
He was a very nice man, a kind man to two aspiring singers, I can say no more, I miss him.
Roger Knowles

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: Jim McLean
Date: 21 Apr 08 - 04:58 AM

Hi Roger, Nigel lives in Birmingham where he still does the odd gig. I shall be seeing him in early May as we usually travel to a beer festival in Germany every year, for a few days. I'll give him your regards.

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: Thompson
Date: 21 Apr 08 - 06:06 AM

When was the Young Protestants version written or sung? Was it a copy of Behan's song or vice versa?

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: GUEST,Greycap
Date: 21 Apr 08 - 04:39 PM

Jim,
Thanks,
Roger

Subject: Origins: Patriot Game
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 May 17 - 03:23 AM

Patriot Game, The

DESCRIPTION: "Come all you young rebels and list' while I sing, For the love of one's land is a terrible thing." 16-year-old O'Hanlon wanted to fight England and "free" Ulster. Now he lies with his body "all holes." He wishes he had accomplished more
AUTHOR: Dominic Behan
EARLIEST DATE: 1962 (copyright)
KEYWORDS: Ireland IRA political death war
FOUND IN: Ireland
REFERENCES (2 citations):
Behan-IrelandSings, #68, "The Patriot Game" (1 text, 1 tune)
DT, PATGAME1*
Roud #18464
SAME TUNE:
With God On Our Side (by Bob Dylan, and available in many pop songbooks)
NOTES [47 words]: Behan reports that this was inspired by the death of one Feargal O'Hanlon in 1957. It has been preserved mostly by pop folk singers (who seem to have adapted the message with regularity), but there are a handful of semi-traditional collections, so perhaps it belongs in the Index. - RBW
Last updated in version 5.1
File: Beha068

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Digital Tradition lyrics:

PATRIOT GAME (DT Lyrics) (Dominic Behan) Come all ye young rebels, and list while I sing, For the love of one's country is a terrible thing. It banishes fear with the speed of a flame, And it makes us all part of the patriot game. My name is O'Hanlon, and I've just turned sixteen. My home is in Monaghan, and where I was weaned I learned all my life cruel England's to blame, So now I am part of the patriot game. This Ireland of ours has too long been half free. Six counties lie under John Bull's tyranny. But still De Valera is greatly to blame For shirking his part in the Patriot game. They told me how Connolly was shot in his chair, His wounds from the fighting all bloody and bare. His fine body twisted, all battered and lame They soon made me part of the patriot game. It's nearly two years since I wandered away With the local battalion of the bold IRA, For I read of our heroes, and wanted the same To play out my part in the patriot game. And now as I lie here, my body all holes I think of those traitors who bargained in souls And I wish that my rifle had given the same To those Quislings who sold out the patriot game.

PATRIOT GAME (corrected from Behan) (Dominic Behan) Come all you young rebels, and list while I sing, For the love of one's country is a terrible thing. It banishes fear with the speed of a flame, And it makes us all part of the Patriot Game. My name is O'Hanlon, and I've just turned I'm just gone sixteen. My home is in Monaghan, and where there I was weaned I learned all my life cruel England's to blame, So now I am And so I'm a part of the patriot game. (moved) It's nearly two years It's barely a year since I wandered away With the local battalion of the bold I.R.A., For I read of our heroes and wanted the same To play out up my part in the Patriot Game. They told me how Connolly was shot in his a chair, His wounds from the fighting all bloody bleeding and bare. His fine body twisted, all battered and lame They soon made me part of the patriot game. This Ireland of ours mine has too for long been half free. Six Counties lie are under John Bull's tyranny. Monarchy. But still De Valera is greatly to blame For shirking his part in the Patriot Game. I don't mind a bit if I shoot down police They are lackeys for war never guardians of peace, But at deserters I'm never let aim The rebels who sold out the Patriot Game. And now as I lie here, my body all holes I think of those traitors who bargained in souls and sold And I wish that I'm sorry my rifle had given has not done the same To For those Quislings who sold out the Patriot Game.

Tune: One Morning In May, or God on Our Side
Copyright Clifford Music Co., Ltd.
@Irish @rebel
recorded by Owen McBride and by Judy Collins
see also PATGAME2
filename[ PATGAME1
TUNE FILE: PATGAME
CLICK TO PLAY
RG

Subject: DT Correction: Patriot Game
From: Joe Offer
Date: 21 Mar 21 - 11:10 PM

I attempted a side-by-side comparison with the DT lyrics above, but the version from Behan himself has significant differences that can't be compared side-by side, so I was unhappy with the results.
These are the lyrics from Dominic Behan's book, Ireland Sings, published in 1973 by Music Sales Corporation, New York (Song #68)

PATRIOT GAME
(Dominic Behan)

Come all you young rebels, and list while I sing,
For love of one's land is a terrible thing.
It banishes fear with the speed of a flame,
And makes us all part of the Patriot Game.

My name is O'Hanlon, and I'm just gone sixteen.
My home is in Monaghan, there I was weaned
I learned all my life cruel England to blame,
And so I'm a part of the patriot game.

It's barely a year since I wandered away
With the local battalion of the bold I.R.A.,
I read of our heroes and wanted the same
To play up my part in the Patriot Game.

They told me how Connolly was shot in his a chair,
His wounds from the fighting all bloody bleeding and bare.
His fine body twisted, all battered and lame
They soon made me part of the patriot game.

This Ireland of mine has forlong been half free.
Six Counties are under John Bull's Monarchy.
But still De Valera is greatly to blame
For shirking his part in the Patriot Game.

I don't mind a bit if I shoot down police
They are lackeys for war never guardians of peace,
But at deserters I'm never let aim
The rebels who sold out the Patriot Game.

And now as I lie here, my body all holes
I think of those traitors who bargained and sold
I'm sorry my rifle has not done the same
For those Quislings who sold out the Patriot Game.

Note from Joe Offer: I got a personal message last week from a Mudcatter who called me "arrogant" for posting lyrics to a Vin Garbutt song about the Irish Troubles. He said the situation was very tense right now, and it was not a good time to post provocative songs. So, today I got a phone request for lyrics to "Patriot Game," and I realized that our lyrics in the DT were not the same as what I found in the Dominic Behan book. I'm posting the corrected lyrics, and I hope the Mudcatter will not be offended. My job here is to ensure that lyrics posted at Mudcat are correct and source-documented. I make no judgment as to the appropriateness of the lyrics. I don't think that it is correct or worthwhile scholarship allows me to make value judgments on the lyrics that are posted. My only criteria are correctness and attribution. I really don't have time to screw around with all that other shit.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: GUEST,Billy in TO Canada
Date: 08 Jun 21 - 04:59 AM

Janice from NJ my da you to sing Come all you young Protestants and I wanted him to write me out the lyrics but he passed in Dec. Do you know the other verses can you reach out to me at [e-mail]

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jun 21 - 05:39 AM

Re: Note from Joe Offer: I would suggest you are not the arrogant one Joe.

Whilst everyone is entitled to their opinion and I wouldn't tell them to f**k off I would stick my fingers in my ears and go 'la la la' until they had finished.

Mile

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: Michael
Date: 08 Jun 21 - 05:42 AM

Oops, the above was me, sans cookie.

Mike

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: clueless don
Date: 08 Jun 21 - 06:57 AM

I was just browsing this thread, and I'm puzzled by the assertion that the tune for The Patriot Game is the same as the tune for One Morning in May. The tune I know for One Morning in May is nothing like the tune I know for Patriot Game.

On the other hand, maybe I need to get out more!

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: Anglo
Date: 09 Jun 21 - 03:34 PM

I was interested to see the reference to One Morning in May, The Bold Grenadier, or The Nightingale, sung by Jo Stafford. Her recording (titled The Nightingale) is on YouTube - Here..

This was issued in 1948, well before Patriot Game.

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: Charmion
Date: 09 Jun 21 - 07:19 PM

The tune of "The Nightingale" (One Morning in May) shares its opening phrase with "The Patriot Game", and there the similarity ends.

And Joe, there hasn't been a time in my whole life, now a fairly long stretch, when Irish rebel songs were not either a bit controversial or very controversial indeed. If the DT were limited to the songs that everyone agreed were *nice*, it would not be worth much.

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 10 Jun 21 - 03:41 AM

The verse "I don't mind a bit if I shoot down police" refers to a force that at the time was sectarian, and had many members in loyalist paramilitary groups.