Origins: Patriot Game

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: meself
Date: 13 Feb 25 - 10:37 AM

'The tune of "The Nightingale" (One Morning in May) shares its opening phrase with "The Patriot Game", and there the similarity ends.'

I find that a bewildering assertion: just listening now to the Jo Stafford recording, I find only, possibly, the smallest variations from the melody of The Patriot Game that I'm familiar with ... ?

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Feb 25 - 08:42 AM

Dear folks the song that Dominic Behan wrote called The Patriot Game was to the same tune that was called The Nightingale. First written in the 19th century which was famously recorded by Jo Stafford in 1948. It is believed that The Patriot Game was written in 1957 about a fiigh that was going in Ireland but i don't know any thing else. In 1963 Bob Dylan wrote With God On Our Side. I believe more folks sing Dylan's words more. Thanks very much for all your responses of this song and where it all began from Joe.

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 10 Jun 21 - 03:41 AM

The verse "I don't mind a bit if I shoot down police" refers to a force that at the time was sectarian, and had many members in loyalist paramilitary groups.

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: Charmion
Date: 09 Jun 21 - 07:19 PM

The tune of "The Nightingale" (One Morning in May) shares its opening phrase with "The Patriot Game", and there the similarity ends.

And Joe, there hasn't been a time in my whole life, now a fairly long stretch, when Irish rebel songs were not either a bit controversial or very controversial indeed. If the DT were limited to the songs that everyone agreed were *nice*, it would not be worth much.

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: Anglo
Date: 09 Jun 21 - 03:34 PM

I was interested to see the reference to One Morning in May, The Bold Grenadier, or The Nightingale, sung by Jo Stafford. Her recording (titled The Nightingale) is on YouTube - Here..

This was issued in 1948, well before Patriot Game.

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: clueless don
Date: 08 Jun 21 - 06:57 AM

I was just browsing this thread, and I'm puzzled by the assertion that the tune for The Patriot Game is the same as the tune for One Morning in May. The tune I know for One Morning in May is nothing like the tune I know for Patriot Game.

On the other hand, maybe I need to get out more!

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: Michael
Date: 08 Jun 21 - 05:42 AM

Oops, the above was me, sans cookie.

Mike

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jun 21 - 05:39 AM

Re: Note from Joe Offer: I would suggest you are not the arrogant one Joe.

Whilst everyone is entitled to their opinion and I wouldn't tell them to f**k off I would stick my fingers in my ears and go 'la la la' until they had finished.

Mile

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: GUEST,Billy in TO Canada
Date: 08 Jun 21 - 04:59 AM

Janice from NJ my da you to sing Come all you young Protestants and I wanted him to write me out the lyrics but he passed in Dec. Do you know the other verses can you reach out to me at [e-mail]

Subject: DT Correction: Patriot Game
From: Joe Offer
Date: 21 Mar 21 - 11:10 PM

I attempted a side-by-side comparison with the DT lyrics above, but the version from Behan himself has significant differences that can't be compared side-by side, so I was unhappy with the results.
These are the lyrics from Dominic Behan's book, Ireland Sings, published in 1973 by Music Sales Corporation, New York (Song #68)

PATRIOT GAME
(Dominic Behan)

Come all you young rebels, and list while I sing,
For love of one's land is a terrible thing.
It banishes fear with the speed of a flame,
And makes us all part of the Patriot Game.

My name is O'Hanlon, and I'm just gone sixteen.
My home is in Monaghan, there I was weaned
I learned all my life cruel England to blame,
And so I'm a part of the patriot game.

It's barely a year since I wandered away
With the local battalion of the bold I.R.A.,
I read of our heroes and wanted the same
To play up my part in the Patriot Game.

They told me how Connolly was shot in his a chair,
His wounds from the fighting all bloody bleeding and bare.
His fine body twisted, all battered and lame
They soon made me part of the patriot game.

This Ireland of mine has forlong been half free.
Six Counties are under John Bull's Monarchy.
But still De Valera is greatly to blame
For shirking his part in the Patriot Game.

I don't mind a bit if I shoot down police
They are lackeys for war never guardians of peace,
But at deserters I'm never let aim
The rebels who sold out the Patriot Game.

And now as I lie here, my body all holes
I think of those traitors who bargained and sold
I'm sorry my rifle has not done the same
For those Quislings who sold out the Patriot Game.

Note from Joe Offer: I got a personal message last week from a Mudcatter who called me "arrogant" for posting lyrics to a Vin Garbutt song about the Irish Troubles. He said the situation was very tense right now, and it was not a good time to post provocative songs. So, today I got a phone request for lyrics to "Patriot Game," and I realized that our lyrics in the DT were not the same as what I found in the Dominic Behan book. I'm posting the corrected lyrics, and I hope the Mudcatter will not be offended. My job here is to ensure that lyrics posted at Mudcat are correct and source-documented. I make no judgment as to the appropriateness of the lyrics. I don't think that it is correct or worthwhile scholarship allows me to make value judgments on the lyrics that are posted. My only criteria are correctness and attribution. I really don't have time to screw around with all that other shit.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: Origins: Patriot Game
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 May 17 - 03:23 AM

Patriot Game, The

DESCRIPTION: "Come all you young rebels and list' while I sing, For the love of one's land is a terrible thing." 16-year-old O'Hanlon wanted to fight England and "free" Ulster. Now he lies with his body "all holes." He wishes he had accomplished more
AUTHOR: Dominic Behan
EARLIEST DATE: 1962 (copyright)
KEYWORDS: Ireland IRA political death war
FOUND IN: Ireland
REFERENCES (2 citations):
Behan-IrelandSings, #68, "The Patriot Game" (1 text, 1 tune)
DT, PATGAME1*
Roud #18464
SAME TUNE:
With God On Our Side (by Bob Dylan, and available in many pop songbooks)
NOTES [47 words]: Behan reports that this was inspired by the death of one Feargal O'Hanlon in 1957. It has been preserved mostly by pop folk singers (who seem to have adapted the message with regularity), but there are a handful of semi-traditional collections, so perhaps it belongs in the Index. - RBW
Last updated in version 5.1
File: Beha068

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Digital Tradition lyrics:

PATRIOT GAME (DT Lyrics) (Dominic Behan) Come all ye young rebels, and list while I sing, For the love of one's country is a terrible thing. It banishes fear with the speed of a flame, And it makes us all part of the patriot game. My name is O'Hanlon, and I've just turned sixteen. My home is in Monaghan, and where I was weaned I learned all my life cruel England's to blame, So now I am part of the patriot game. This Ireland of ours has too long been half free. Six counties lie under John Bull's tyranny. But still De Valera is greatly to blame For shirking his part in the Patriot game. They told me how Connolly was shot in his chair, His wounds from the fighting all bloody and bare. His fine body twisted, all battered and lame They soon made me part of the patriot game. It's nearly two years since I wandered away With the local battalion of the bold IRA, For I read of our heroes, and wanted the same To play out my part in the patriot game. And now as I lie here, my body all holes I think of those traitors who bargained in souls And I wish that my rifle had given the same To those Quislings who sold out the patriot game.

PATRIOT GAME (corrected from Behan) (Dominic Behan) Come all you young rebels, and list while I sing, For the love of one's country is a terrible thing. It banishes fear with the speed of a flame, And it makes us all part of the Patriot Game. My name is O'Hanlon, and I've just turned I'm just gone sixteen. My home is in Monaghan, and where there I was weaned I learned all my life cruel England's to blame, So now I am And so I'm a part of the patriot game. (moved) It's nearly two years It's barely a year since I wandered away With the local battalion of the bold I.R.A., For I read of our heroes and wanted the same To play out up my part in the Patriot Game. They told me how Connolly was shot in his a chair, His wounds from the fighting all bloody bleeding and bare. His fine body twisted, all battered and lame They soon made me part of the patriot game. This Ireland of ours mine has too for long been half free. Six Counties lie are under John Bull's tyranny. Monarchy. But still De Valera is greatly to blame For shirking his part in the Patriot Game. I don't mind a bit if I shoot down police They are lackeys for war never guardians of peace, But at deserters I'm never let aim The rebels who sold out the Patriot Game. And now as I lie here, my body all holes I think of those traitors who bargained in souls and sold And I wish that I'm sorry my rifle had given has not done the same To For those Quislings who sold out the Patriot Game.

Tune: One Morning In May, or God on Our Side
Copyright Clifford Music Co., Ltd.
@Irish @rebel
recorded by Owen McBride and by Judy Collins
see also PATGAME2
filename[ PATGAME1
TUNE FILE: PATGAME
CLICK TO PLAY
RG

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: GUEST,Greycap
Date: 21 Apr 08 - 04:39 PM

Jim,
Thanks,
Roger

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: Thompson
Date: 21 Apr 08 - 06:06 AM

When was the Young Protestants version written or sung? Was it a copy of Behan's song or vice versa?

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: Jim McLean
Date: 21 Apr 08 - 04:58 AM

Hi Roger, Nigel lives in Birmingham where he still does the odd gig. I shall be seeing him in early May as we usually travel to a beer festival in Germany every year, for a few days. I'll give him your regards.

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: GUEST,Greycap
Date: 20 Apr 08 - 06:27 PM

As a side issue, I had the privilege of being Dominic Behan's house guest for a week, together with my pal, the late Dave Brady, back in 1962 when we we both aspiring singers in London. We had been sleeping in Dave's car in Hyde Park due to financial caution (spend less on sleeping comfort, more on beer).
This kind and talented man met us at the Singer's Club, apparently thought we had some kinda potential, offered us house room for the week, great hospitality, and introduced us to some fine singers, Nigel Denver, Ramblin' Jack Elliot, Martin Carthy, etc.
I understood him to be the author of 'Patriot Game', not Brendan.
He taught us both great songs, as did Nigel Denver, which I still sing today. Where is Nigel, anyone know?
He was a very nice man, a kind man to two aspiring singers, I can say no more, I miss him.
Roger Knowles

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: Jim McLean
Date: 20 Apr 08 - 06:02 PM

Dick, what I meant was that if you compare Dylan's verse ' Oh my name it means nothing, my age it means less' to Dominic's ' My name is O'Hanlon, my age is sixteen' etcetera (and excuse my not remembering the words exactly) it is obvious he was writing his song with Dominic's in mind. He asked me about the Patriot Game when he heard Nigel Denver singing it in the Troubadour way back and I explained what Dominic had in mind. So I'm not saying he swiped the tune, just that he used Dominic's song as a vehicle upon to which to fashion his own. I'm only stating the obvious.

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: GUEST,Joe (Waverley Station) Casey
Date: 20 Apr 08 - 05:55 PM

Jim,

Same Jim I met at Waverley Station on Friday evening ?

Next time I'll buy you pint, and we can sing the whole of 'Seven Deadly Sins' !

Cheers

Joe.

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: meself
Date: 20 Apr 08 - 12:20 PM

'check out "Liam's Patriot Game"' - Seems rather mean-spirited - or am I misinterpreting it?

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 20 Apr 08 - 11:33 AM

Jim-
"Dylan not only got the tune from Dominic's song (irrespective of whether it was traditional or not) "..hard to claim that someone swiped a tune that's been traditional for many, many years. Even if Behan claimed it.

BTW, check out "Liam's Patriot Game" in Digitrad.

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: Jim McLean
Date: 20 Apr 08 - 09:35 AM

This topic has been covered in another thread where I related the discussion between myself and Dylan regarding Dominic's song. You only have to compare the lyrics of God on our Side to The Patriot Game to see that Dylan not only got the tune from Dominic's song (irrespective of whether it was traditional or not) but aped the words.

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: ard mhacha
Date: 20 Apr 08 - 06:46 AM

Big Tim in a previous Thread inquired as to the meaning of `when Moneymore come round, and they will weep that their bold captain is nowhere to be found` in the song, `The Bantry girls lament`.
The term Moneymore could apply to a pattern or a fair, and the faction fights which took place at some fairs, mostly in the province of Munster, the captain was the term used to describe the leaders of the factions.
I have also seen Moneymore spelt as mon-na -hoor.
Delia Murphy was the first person I heard sing `The Bantry girls lament`

Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: GUEST,bob af
Date: 05 Jan 06 - 11:48 PM

Regarding the Patriot Game/With God On Our Side song, Dominic Behan wrote the following to me in a January 31, 1976 letter from Happendon,Douglas in Lanark, Scotland:

"Thank you for the interest you are showing in my song, `The Patriot Game'. Some years ago I tried to get Dylan to settle the matter as one artist to another. I rang him at an hotel in London where he had been living then. Dylan's reaction was that I didn't have the resources to take any legal action against him, and he therefore replied, `Get lost, bum! The songs I write make other people's attempts at art good.'

"Mr. Dylan was, of course, correct in his view of my financial state. I couldn't take him to court, and, my publishers in America, `The Richmond Organisation', think the whole matter too costly and not worth the candle.

"I wrote the song (words and music) on the 1st January, 1957, after Feargal O'Hanlon had been shot dead the night previously.

"Thanks very much for your interest, though, when dealing with folk as ruthless as Mr. Dylan, I doubt if you and the other honest people around can do a lot of good.

"Thanks anyway and best wishes,

"Dominic Behan."

Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: MartinRyan
Date: 31 Jul 03 - 05:05 AM

Agreed. Despite that, "patriarch" is often sung!

Regards

Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jul 03 - 06:54 PM

Somehow the "bawnoge" link in Bantry Girls' Lament wound up here. So this comment is about that song. In the first two verses the term "patriarch" appears; in the context of the song and the tradition of Irishmen fighting overseas, it makes sense to me that the term should be "patriot," not patriarch.

R. Singer
Seattle

Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: belfast
Date: 08 Feb 03 - 11:17 AM

About the "The Battlefields of Spain" quoted above. I've started another thread about this song. ( click here for "The Civil War in Spain"

Subject: Patriot Game (Protestant answer)
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 06 Feb 03 - 12:17 PM

the BBC site Janice in NJ mentioned is worth a look at. From that site here are the verses to the same air as The Patriot Game, which is also featured. I heard the Loyalist version in Belfast some years ago, so I think it was popular with that section of the community.

Come all ye Young Protestants.
Come all ye young Protestants and list while I sing
For the love of old Ulster is a wonderful thing
We'll fight to defend it with tooth and with nail
And we will make certain that truth will prevail

Around 1690 at a place called the Boyne
Our forefathers gathered with William to join
God's blessing was on them as they entered the fray
And it's due to those heroes we're freemen today

Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: Suffet
Date: 15 Jun 02 - 07:52 AM

Martin:

Job well done in tracing the origins of "The Battlefields of Spain"! Thanks.

--- Steve

Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 15 Jun 02 - 01:47 AM

Hey sourdough! I once made a trip to NYC, back in 1960 I think, and one of the plays I saw was Gelber's "The Connection" I was stunned and amazed and truly moved as no other play had moved me and none since! I would like to digress from this thread to thank you and all those who contributed to that incredible evening! With deepest gratitude:

CB

Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 05 Apr 02 - 05:23 AM

"The Battlefields of Spain" was written by Joe Mulherron of Belfast/Derry, using "Bantry Girl's Lament" as the model. He also included it in a set of balladsheets he produced many years ago - which had an interesting consequence. When he had finished screen-printing them on to 500 sheets of high quality paper ("A pound a sheet, damn it!", as he said)he realised he'd overlooked a typo in the spelling of "Connolly Column"! This explains why, during a run of Spanish Civil War songs at the recent Inishowen Singing Festival, Frank Harte was heard to call on Joe to "Give us the one about the Con-ON-olly Column!"!

Regards

Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: Sourdough
Date: 22 Feb 02 - 01:05 PM

Greg:

You are absolutely right, it was Brendan Behan and not Dominic. I must have been working too late, last night. I should not be allowed near a keyboard more than fourteen hours a day.

Sourdough

(Thanks for the kindness of "clouded".)

Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: greg stephens
Date: 22 Feb 02 - 06:17 AM

sourdough i think your memory is clouded. your description sounds like Brendan, not his brother Dominic . They both had noses which looked as if they'd been multiply broken, but Brendan was burlier and Dominic skinnier. both very pugnacious! make sure you let us all know how you get on in Ireland

Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: Sourdough
Date: 22 Feb 02 - 03:19 AM

Greg Stephens and I seem to have had a common experience, being threatend to be punched in the face by Dominic Behan. In my case, it was not in a pub but in a theater. I was stage manager of a play called "The Connection" in New York. It was an underground hit and after it was discovered, for the next four years, almost every night it seems that there was at least one celebrity in the audience.

On this particular night, Rosemary, who was house manager, was taking tickets at the door that led from the lobby into the theater. A burly man with a cigar sticking straight out from his mouth was trying to get past her. The NYPD is very clear about smoking in theaters and letting him pass with his cigar was out of the question. When he refused to put out his cigar, Rosemary rang the buzzer for me. This was the equivalent of a "Hey, Rube" and I was out there in a moment. Rosemary was tough but she was outclassed by the size of this man and his fast mouth.

I got between him and the theater door before I recognized him. Although I had seen pictures of him, I think it was his voice that really gave him away. I had heard him being interviewed on the radio about his book, probably "Borstal Boy". Tonight, he was feeling pretty pugnacious but I am six two and a few years younger. He looked at me with some respect. He thought fir a moment about the various alternatives open to him and decided to comply with the NYPD fire regulations.

He actually agreed to put out his cigar. Then he asked me, and I quote, "What should I do with this cigar?". There was an awkward pause before we both laughed. He handed me the cigar and walked in to take his seat and see the play.

Sourdough

Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: Big Tim
Date: 22 Feb 02 - 02:23 AM

Thanks Martin, re bawnogue, I didn't know that. I discovered the Bawnogue in Wexford when reading about Father Murphy of Boolavogue fame. Just before he was captured he spent some time hiding with relatives, The Murphy's of the Bawnogue, in north Wexford.

Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: Janice in NJ
Date: 21 Feb 02 - 07:19 PM

Greg, I first heard "Come All You Young Protestants" in Nova Scotia a long time ago. The only reference to it that I can find is on the BBC website. From there you can follow a link to a sound clip, but which has only two verses.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/war/troubles/music/trad.shtml

Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: greg stephens
Date: 21 Feb 02 - 05:55 PM

I had the pleasure of Dominic Behan threatening to punch me in the face while we were discussing rebel songs on licensed premises rather late one night. I'm sure he would have made a lively contribution to the present thread.

Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: Bennet Zurofsky
Date: 21 Feb 02 - 05:48 PM

It should be noted that Dominic Behan was the brother of Brendan Behan, the great Irish playwright and raconteur ("The Borstal Boy" may be his best known work).

I had the pleasure of hearing Dominic Behan perform many years ago, and he was no slouch of a raconteur himself. His Topic l.p. mentioned above is well worth acquiring (if you can).

-Bennet

Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: MartinRyan
Date: 21 Feb 02 - 04:58 PM

Thanks Steve - I'll see what I can find out about its origins.

Regards

Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: Suffet
Date: 21 Feb 02 - 04:54 PM

I heard "Battlefields of Spain" sung by three men in a pub -- the King's Head, I believe -- in Galway in 1987. I asked one of them to sing it again so I could write down the words. That's all I know about the song. I never heard it before or since.

--- Steve

Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: MartinRyan
Date: 21 Feb 02 - 03:35 PM

Tim

Yes to Wexford, as far as I know. Yes to Peninsular War. Maybe to "bawnoge" - but it was quite a general Irish word for a village green, really.

Regards

Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: Big Tim
Date: 21 Feb 02 - 12:25 PM

A number of points: Is the Bantry Girls Lament set in Bantry, North Wexford NOT Bantry, Cork? I think so, "the girls of the Bawnogue in sorrow may retire", Bawnogue (a townand?) is in Wexford. Is the song set during the Peninsula War?

The Brookeborough raid was led by Sean Garland, not Sean South. Garland was wounded but escaped. He was again wounded in a republican feud in Dublin in 1975. This is in the public domain. Is he still alive?

In many respects Sean South was a fine young man: a writer, artist, musician, orator. However he was also a McCarthyite bigot, railing aginst "Reds, atheists and Judaeo-Masonic controlled sources" in letters to his local newspaper in 1949, age 21. He was the product of the Ireland of his time, conservative, insular, ignorant(ish). I, born 20 years later and raised in rural Donegal, once had very similar views but lived long enough, and with the help of a decent general education, to outgrow them.

The RUC sergeant who "spied them throught the door" was Kenneth Cordner. There is a monument to SS and FO'H at the spot where they died, though the barn where they were left is gone "blown up about 15 years ago" I was told in Brookeborough one Sunday morning.

Is the Patriot Game ambivalent? "The love of one's country is a TERRIBLE thing", in some repub versions this is changed to "wonderful". However Dom Behan wrote so many other rebel songs that "terrible" has probably simply been misinterpreted.

Any more biog info on Feargal O'Hanlon? All I know is that he was age 19, was reared, "weaned", on Pearse, and played senior football for Monaghan. There is another song about him, "Feargal O'Hanlon", first verse,

Oh hark to the tale of young Feargal O'Hanlon, who died in Brookeborough to make Ireland free,for his heart he had pledged to the love of his country, and he took to the hills like a bold "rapparee" [outlaw].

Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Feb 02 - 10:16 AM

Janice, Once again we have to enlighten our US citizens, almost every recent loyalist song has been a copy-parody of rebel songs. Paddy Joe.

Subject: Lyr Add: THE BANTRY GIRL'S LAMENT
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 21 Feb 02 - 09:59 AM

Here's the Bantry Girl's Lament , for comparison:

THE BANTRY GIRL'S LAMENT (2)

Who will plough the fields all day and who will thrash the corn?
Who will tend the sheep now and see them neatly shorn?
The stack that's in the haggard, unthrashed it may remain
Now that Johnny's gone a-thrashing all in the wars in Spain

The girls from the bawnogue in sorrow may retire
And the piper with his bellows may go home and blow the fire
For Johnny, lovely Johnny is sailing o'er the main
Along with the other patriots for to fight the King of Spain

The boys will surely miss him when Moneymore comes round
And they'll weep that their bold captain is nowhere to be found
And the peelers may stand idle, all against their will and main
Since the gallant boy who gave them work now peels the King of Spain

At wakes and hurling matches your like we'll never see
Till you come back again to us a stor gra geal mo chroi
Then wont you thrash the buckeens that show us such disdain
Because our eyes are not so bright as those you'll see in Spain

If cruel fate should not allow our Johnny to return
His heavy loss we Bantry girls will never cease to mourn
We'll resign ourselves to our sad lot and live in grief and pain
Since Johnny died for freedom's sake in the foreign land of Spain

Suffet: Where did you hear the song? Any idea who wrote it - or when? The similarity to the Bantry Girl is not coincidental, obviously. Must ask Manus O'Riordan, whose father Michael was there!

Regards

Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: Suffet
Date: 21 Feb 02 - 09:47 AM

"Battlefields of Spain" is set to the tune of "Sean South" or "Roddy McCorley." I mentioned it in this thread because the discussion turned to the late Mr. South and the song named after him.

--- Steve

Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: Wolfgang
Date: 21 Feb 02 - 04:27 AM

I have never read 'Gottes Feldwebel' about Paisley, but I think it fits. Other Germans may dissent but my association when I read 'Feldwebel' now is: not very bright, but very loud.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: GUEST,Roger O'K
Date: 21 Feb 02 - 04:02 AM

The "God on our side" notion could also have come from the German army's belt buckle which, even in theologically unsound Uncle Adolf's time, bore the words "Gott mit uns". The German press incidentally nicknamed leading liberation theologian Ian Paisley "Gottes Feldwebel" (God's sergeant-major), which I suppose suggests that God should be pleased to have Paisley on his side.

But I don't know if the notion of "God on our side" really traceable to a single source, as the same general idea has been knocking around for at least a couple of thousand years.

Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: MartinRyan
Date: 21 Feb 02 - 03:09 AM

Suffet

Haven't heard that Spanish Civil War song before. Looks like it was intended to go to the "Bantry Girl's lament" air, appropriately enough, rather than "Patriot game".

Regards

Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: greg stephens
Date: 21 Feb 02 - 02:48 AM

janice in nj: can you give us a source for that "bold protestants" song....are you sure it predates dominic behan? if t does i'm sure your suggestion that it inspired the patriot game must be rightg. the Nightingale/Bold Grenadier (same song )tune was around a long time before any Appalachian recording, bu i cant give chapter and verse forthat, i dont recall which book it was published in, but i'm sure it was 19century

Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: The Pooka
Date: 21 Feb 02 - 01:09 AM

Fascinating. Hello Susanne, thankyou. Mr Spaw, that reminds me to get Clancy's new book; more good stuff maybe. Janice, whoo, great verse, never heard song, gotta get it. Copycat tune maybe NOT so ironic. Decommission *both* sides' teeth & nails and let a higher truth prevail. Suffet, remarkable. Dauntless Red Hue, eh :)

Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: Janice in NJ
Date: 21 Feb 02 - 12:19 AM

The irony alone is to make me believe that Dominic Behan borrowed the tune from "Come All You Young Protestants," one of many songs set to the same air. For those who never head the song, hear is the first verse. Note the similarity of the first two lines to "The Patriot Game."

Come all you young Protestants and list while I sing,
The love of old Ulster is a wonderful thing,
We'll fight to defend her, with tooth and with nail,
And we will make certain the truth will prevail.

Subject: Origins: Patriot Game
From: catspaw49
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 09:35 PM

Greg Stephens........This may interest you. Copied from another website, this is Liam Clancy speaking about the evolution of Dylan's "With God On Our Side:"

"'The Patriot Game' was written by Dominic Behan, but it was originally a song from the Appalachian Mountains ('The Merry Month Of May'). Then it became a popular song, slightly adapted by a popular singer of the day named Jo Stafford who called it the - What was it called? 'The Bold Grenadier,' or something.

And it was from that popular recording that Dominic Behan took the tune and he made it into 'The Patriot Game.' And of course we used to sing this with great passion at the folk clubs in the (Greenwich) Village. And among the patrons was a young singer/songwriter who came into town named Bob Dylan. And he transformed it, of course, into 'With God on Our Side.'" Actually Dominic Behan chided Dylan publicly for lifting Behan's melody until he was reminded that he himself had "borrowed" the tune. As for the phrase "God on our side," it might have come from Robert Southey ("The laws are with us and God's on our side") or from George Bernard Shaw's play Saint Joan."

Spaw