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Origins: Patriot Game

DigiTrad:
LIAM'S PATRIOT GAME
PATRIOT GAME


Related threads:
(origins) Origins: Patriot Game (29)
Lyr Req: Patriots Game/Gang (4)
Patriot Game (tune source?) (21)
Patriot Game (2) (closed)


hobbitwoman 19 Feb 02 - 08:34 PM
SeanM 19 Feb 02 - 08:42 PM
masato sakurai 19 Feb 02 - 08:51 PM
GUEST,wdyat24 19 Feb 02 - 08:52 PM
hobbitwoman 19 Feb 02 - 08:58 PM
GUEST 19 Feb 02 - 09:03 PM
masato sakurai 19 Feb 02 - 09:22 PM
hobbitwoman 19 Feb 02 - 10:05 PM
Clinton Hammond 19 Feb 02 - 10:08 PM
masato sakurai 19 Feb 02 - 10:34 PM
GUEST 19 Feb 02 - 11:37 PM
The Pooka 19 Feb 02 - 11:53 PM
GUEST,joanie baez 20 Feb 02 - 02:17 AM
GUEST,troy brown 20 Feb 02 - 03:59 AM
GUEST,greg stephens 20 Feb 02 - 06:49 AM
GUEST,greg stephens 20 Feb 02 - 06:52 AM
masato sakurai 20 Feb 02 - 07:29 AM
The Pooka 20 Feb 02 - 05:15 PM
Susanne (skw) 20 Feb 02 - 08:57 PM
Suffet 20 Feb 02 - 09:07 PM
masato sakurai 20 Feb 02 - 09:21 PM
catspaw49 20 Feb 02 - 09:35 PM
Janice in NJ 21 Feb 02 - 12:19 AM
The Pooka 21 Feb 02 - 01:09 AM
greg stephens 21 Feb 02 - 02:48 AM
MartinRyan 21 Feb 02 - 03:09 AM
GUEST,Roger O'K 21 Feb 02 - 04:02 AM
Wolfgang 21 Feb 02 - 04:27 AM
Suffet 21 Feb 02 - 09:47 AM
GUEST,Martin Ryan 21 Feb 02 - 09:59 AM
GUEST 21 Feb 02 - 10:16 AM
Big Tim 21 Feb 02 - 12:25 PM
MartinRyan 21 Feb 02 - 03:35 PM
Suffet 21 Feb 02 - 04:54 PM
MartinRyan 21 Feb 02 - 04:58 PM
Bennet Zurofsky 21 Feb 02 - 05:48 PM
greg stephens 21 Feb 02 - 05:55 PM
Janice in NJ 21 Feb 02 - 07:19 PM
Big Tim 22 Feb 02 - 02:23 AM
Sourdough 22 Feb 02 - 03:19 AM
greg stephens 22 Feb 02 - 06:17 AM
Sourdough 22 Feb 02 - 01:05 PM
GUEST,Martin Ryan 05 Apr 02 - 05:23 AM
Coyote Breath 15 Jun 02 - 01:47 AM
Suffet 15 Jun 02 - 07:52 AM
GUEST,Philippa 06 Feb 03 - 12:17 PM
belfast 08 Feb 03 - 11:17 AM
GUEST 30 Jul 03 - 06:54 PM
MartinRyan 31 Jul 03 - 05:05 AM
GUEST,bob af 05 Jan 06 - 11:48 PM
ard mhacha 20 Apr 08 - 06:46 AM
Jim McLean 20 Apr 08 - 09:35 AM
dick greenhaus 20 Apr 08 - 11:33 AM
meself 20 Apr 08 - 12:20 PM
GUEST,Joe (Waverley Station) Casey 20 Apr 08 - 05:55 PM
Jim McLean 20 Apr 08 - 06:02 PM
GUEST,Greycap 20 Apr 08 - 06:27 PM
Jim McLean 21 Apr 08 - 04:58 AM
Thompson 21 Apr 08 - 06:06 AM
GUEST,Greycap 21 Apr 08 - 04:39 PM
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Subject: Patriot Game
From: hobbitwoman
Date: 19 Feb 02 - 08:34 PM

Awhile back there was a very informative thread on the song Raglan Road with lots of great information re the composer, meaning of the song, etc. I wonder if any of you would have information re Patriot Game, and/or know the name of a currently available recording that contains the song.

Thanks.

Annie


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Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: SeanM
Date: 19 Feb 02 - 08:42 PM

I can't speak for history, but there are several Clancy Brothers recordings available of "Patriot Game". I believe it's on their 'Songs of Rebellion' CD.

M


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Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: masato sakurai
Date: 19 Feb 02 - 08:51 PM

Try "Digitrad and Forum Search." CDs are HERE
~Masato


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Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: GUEST,wdyat24
Date: 19 Feb 02 - 08:52 PM

Annie,

If you pick up a copy of Sing Out! Special 50th Anniversary Issue you will find the music and lyrics to The Patriot Game on page 44.

wdyat24


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Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: hobbitwoman
Date: 19 Feb 02 - 08:58 PM

Thank you all! That was very quick! I will try all of the above.

Annie


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Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Feb 02 - 09:03 PM

Annie,

Sorry for not giving you the complete specs, Vol 44 #4 Page 44.

wdyat24


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Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: masato sakurai
Date: 19 Feb 02 - 09:22 PM

For concise backgound info on the song, CLICK HERE (BBC: History - Wars and Conflict), with sound clip by Dominic Behan(?).

~Masato


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Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: hobbitwoman
Date: 19 Feb 02 - 10:05 PM

That's super, Masato. I bookmarked that one; I want to read more later. Thanks!

Thanks for the volume number, wdyat24. That will narrow the search down some!

Boy, this is the place to come when you want to learn something about music!

Annie


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Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 19 Feb 02 - 10:08 PM

It's a damn good piece of film too...

;-)


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Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: masato sakurai
Date: 19 Feb 02 - 10:34 PM

Note to this song (copyright 1962) in Dominic Behan's Ireland Sings: An Anthology of Irish Songs and Ballads (p. 152) says: "About the death of Feargal O'Hanlon, killed alongside Sean South, on a raid over the Irish border, January 1st, 1957."

~Masato


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Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Feb 02 - 11:37 PM

I have an LP, 'Easter Week and After', Topic 12T44, where all the songs are sung by Dominic Behan. The last cut on side 2 is his own, "The Patriot Game". The anonymous note on the jacket reads:

Feargal O'Hanlon, aged 17 from Ballybay Co. Monaghan, a draughtsman with Monaghan Co. Council, was killed in action during the Brookeborough Barracks attack also. The song is one of the best and certainly the hardest hitting to come out of Ireland since the Civil War. Words and music are by Dominic Behan.


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Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: The Pooka
Date: 19 Feb 02 - 11:53 PM

Woops! ThreadDrift Alert!

Re Sean South, killed alongside Feargal O'Hanlon ("The Patriot Game") in the raid of '57: there's a song "Sean South of Garryowen". Same melody as "Roddy McCorley" of earlier times. Nowhere near the quality or nuance of "The Patriot Game" of course; but hey.

A lyric that always sounded a wee bit dubious to me:


But the sergeant foiled their daring plan, as he spied them through the door


It was an IRA raid on an RUC barracks I believe. Geez, hadn't they like *thought* of the sergeant maybe noticing? Ah weel / I dunno the actual history..

Last verse though, which I always felt has beauty:


No more he'll hear the seagull's cry o'er the murmuring Shannon tide,
For he fell beneath that Northern sky, brave Hanlon by his side;
He has gone to join that noble band of Plunkett, Pearse and Tone,
Another martyr for old Ireland: Sean South of Garryowen.


South, I gather, like O'Hanlon was young though not *as* young; and was a scholar. Masato or someone, tell us more?? (McGrath of H.! Where are yez? Get offen th' Bloody Sunday & come over here & eddycate us!)


Aaah the power of patriot myth. Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori. God help us.

-- The Threadcreep


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Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: GUEST,joanie baez
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 02:17 AM

The Patriots are Super Bowl champions baby!


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Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: GUEST,troy brown
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 03:59 AM

No Patriot games until next season, folks, but it sure was a hell of a ride! Feels so good to be a World Champion! WE SHOCKED THE WORLD!! NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS BABY!!! WOO HOO!


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Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: GUEST,greg stephens
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 06:49 AM

and the patriot game unleashed a mighty fight between dominic behan and bob dylan, who pinchedthe tune( and a lot of the sentiments or so said dominic b) for 'With God on our side". not that dominic behan actually wrote the tune, it is an old tune for the Nightingale (as i was a walking one morning in may,i spied a long couple so fondly did stray); now normally sung to the very famous tune collected from aubrey cantwell in standlake,oxfordshire.....sorry, i think i am rambling excessively goodbye


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Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: GUEST,greg stephens
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 06:52 AM

sorry, that should have been a "young couple" not a "long couple". my typing is not up to much, as the schoolteachers among you never tire of pointing out.


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Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: masato sakurai
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 07:29 AM

THE NIGHTINGALE in the DT, with MIDI.

~Masato


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Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: The Pooka
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 05:15 PM

Guest greg stephens, thanks for that good info. You were certainly not rambling excessively, that's my job; you were rambling just right. D'ye do the Rambles of Spring? Ramblin' Gamblin' Wille? (Ramblin' Rose? nevermind)


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Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 08:57 PM

Notes on the song 'Sean South' on Dominic Behan's album 'Easter Week and After'

[1965:] Sean South was killed in action while attacking Brookeborough R.U.C. Barracks on New Year's Night [1 Jan] 1957. He was a Limerick man and his death seemed to stir the people's imagination deeply. There are at least two other songs written in his memory. The tune of this one is 'The Banks of Yarrow'. (Paddy Tunney, notes Dominic Behan, 'Easter Week and After')

And Big Tim informed Mudcatters on 12 April last year: "Sean South was born on 8th February 1928 in Henry Street in the City centre area of Limerick, not actually the Garryowen area, so a smidgeon of poetic licence there."


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE BATTLEFIELDS OF SPAIN
From: Suffet
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 09:07 PM

To the same tune of "Roddy McCorley" and "Sean South" is this song from the Spanish Civil War.

THE BATTLEFIELDS OF SPAIN

For the James Connolly Column of the International Brigade Tune: "Roddy McCorley" (or "Sean South")

Oh, workers dear, did you hear our comrades' call to arms?
It echoed in the cities and it echoed on the farms,
In shipyard and in factory, and upon the fields of grain,
To defend our fellow workers on the battlefields of Spain.

John Riley was a trade union man, our shop floor he did lead,
He fought against the fascist thugs, he fought the bosses' greed,
And now he leads the Connolly Column of the bold Fifteenth Brigade,
And he's gone to fight the fascists on the battlefields of Spain.

Who will call the meeting now and who will take the chair?
And who will lead us out on strike when we demand our share?
For Johnny, brave young Johnny, at home shall not remain,
For he's gone to fight the fascists on the battlefields of Spain.

If fascist bullets won't permit our Wild Geese to come home,
Their tragic loss to Ireland we'll never cease to mourn,
For they fought for the Connolly Column in the bold Fifteenth Brigade,
And they died for the Spanish working class on the battlefields of Spain.


Great song!

--- Steve


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Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: masato sakurai
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 09:21 PM

SEAN SOUTH is in the DT.

~Masato


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Subject: Origins: Patriot Game
From: catspaw49
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 09:35 PM

Greg Stephens........This may interest you. Copied from another website, this is Liam Clancy speaking about the evolution of Dylan's "With God On Our Side:"

"'The Patriot Game' was written by Dominic Behan, but it was originally a song from the Appalachian Mountains ('The Merry Month Of May'). Then it became a popular song, slightly adapted by a popular singer of the day named Jo Stafford who called it the - What was it called? 'The Bold Grenadier,' or something.

And it was from that popular recording that Dominic Behan took the tune and he made it into 'The Patriot Game.' And of course we used to sing this with great passion at the folk clubs in the (Greenwich) Village. And among the patrons was a young singer/songwriter who came into town named Bob Dylan. And he transformed it, of course, into 'With God on Our Side.'" Actually Dominic Behan chided Dylan publicly for lifting Behan's melody until he was reminded that he himself had "borrowed" the tune. As for the phrase "God on our side," it might have come from Robert Southey ("The laws are with us and God's on our side") or from George Bernard Shaw's play Saint Joan."


Spaw


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Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: Janice in NJ
Date: 21 Feb 02 - 12:19 AM

The irony alone is to make me believe that Dominic Behan borrowed the tune from "Come All You Young Protestants," one of many songs set to the same air. For those who never head the song, hear is the first verse. Note the similarity of the first two lines to "The Patriot Game."

Come all you young Protestants and list while I sing,
The love of old Ulster is a wonderful thing,
We'll fight to defend her, with tooth and with nail,
And we will make certain the truth will prevail.


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Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: The Pooka
Date: 21 Feb 02 - 01:09 AM

Fascinating. Hello Susanne, thankyou. Mr Spaw, that reminds me to get Clancy's new book; more good stuff maybe. Janice, whoo, great verse, never heard song, gotta get it. Copycat tune maybe NOT so ironic. Decommission *both* sides' teeth & nails and let a higher truth prevail. Suffet, remarkable. Dauntless Red Hue, eh :)


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Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: greg stephens
Date: 21 Feb 02 - 02:48 AM

janice in nj: can you give us a source for that "bold protestants" song....are you sure it predates dominic behan? if t does i'm sure your suggestion that it inspired the patriot game must be rightg. the Nightingale/Bold Grenadier (same song )tune was around a long time before any Appalachian recording, bu i cant give chapter and verse forthat, i dont recall which book it was published in, but i'm sure it was 19century


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Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: MartinRyan
Date: 21 Feb 02 - 03:09 AM

Suffet

Haven't heard that Spanish Civil War song before. Looks like it was intended to go to the "Bantry Girl's lament" air, appropriately enough, rather than "Patriot game".

Regards


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Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: GUEST,Roger O'K
Date: 21 Feb 02 - 04:02 AM

The "God on our side" notion could also have come from the German army's belt buckle which, even in theologically unsound Uncle Adolf's time, bore the words "Gott mit uns". The German press incidentally nicknamed leading liberation theologian Ian Paisley "Gottes Feldwebel" (God's sergeant-major), which I suppose suggests that God should be pleased to have Paisley on his side.

But I don't know if the notion of "God on our side" really traceable to a single source, as the same general idea has been knocking around for at least a couple of thousand years.


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Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: Wolfgang
Date: 21 Feb 02 - 04:27 AM

I have never read 'Gottes Feldwebel' about Paisley, but I think it fits. Other Germans may dissent but my association when I read 'Feldwebel' now is: not very bright, but very loud.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: Suffet
Date: 21 Feb 02 - 09:47 AM

"Battlefields of Spain" is set to the tune of "Sean South" or "Roddy McCorley." I mentioned it in this thread because the discussion turned to the late Mr. South and the song named after him.

--- Steve


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE BANTRY GIRL'S LAMENT
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 21 Feb 02 - 09:59 AM

Here's the Bantry Girl's Lament , for comparison:

THE BANTRY GIRL'S LAMENT (2)

Who will plough the fields all day and who will thrash the corn?
Who will tend the sheep now and see them neatly shorn?
The stack that's in the haggard, unthrashed it may remain
Now that Johnny's gone a-thrashing all in the wars in Spain

The girls from the bawnogue in sorrow may retire
And the piper with his bellows may go home and blow the fire
For Johnny, lovely Johnny is sailing o'er the main
Along with the other patriots for to fight the King of Spain

The boys will surely miss him when Moneymore comes round
And they'll weep that their bold captain is nowhere to be found
And the peelers may stand idle, all against their will and main
Since the gallant boy who gave them work now peels the King of Spain

At wakes and hurling matches your like we'll never see
Till you come back again to us a stor gra geal mo chroi
Then wont you thrash the buckeens that show us such disdain
Because our eyes are not so bright as those you'll see in Spain

If cruel fate should not allow our Johnny to return
His heavy loss we Bantry girls will never cease to mourn
We'll resign ourselves to our sad lot and live in grief and pain
Since Johnny died for freedom's sake in the foreign land of Spain

Suffet: Where did you hear the song? Any idea who wrote it - or when? The similarity to the Bantry Girl is not coincidental, obviously. Must ask Manus O'Riordan, whose father Michael was there!

Regards


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Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Feb 02 - 10:16 AM

Janice, Once again we have to enlighten our US citizens, almost every recent loyalist song has been a copy-parody of rebel songs. Paddy Joe.


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Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: Big Tim
Date: 21 Feb 02 - 12:25 PM

A number of points: Is the Bantry Girls Lament set in Bantry, North Wexford NOT Bantry, Cork? I think so, "the girls of the Bawnogue in sorrow may retire", Bawnogue (a townand?) is in Wexford. Is the song set during the Peninsula War?

The Brookeborough raid was led by Sean Garland, not Sean South. Garland was wounded but escaped. He was again wounded in a republican feud in Dublin in 1975. This is in the public domain. Is he still alive?

In many respects Sean South was a fine young man: a writer, artist, musician, orator. However he was also a McCarthyite bigot, railing aginst "Reds, atheists and Judaeo-Masonic controlled sources" in letters to his local newspaper in 1949, age 21. He was the product of the Ireland of his time, conservative, insular, ignorant(ish). I, born 20 years later and raised in rural Donegal, once had very similar views but lived long enough, and with the help of a decent general education, to outgrow them.

The RUC sergeant who "spied them throught the door" was Kenneth Cordner. There is a monument to SS and FO'H at the spot where they died, though the barn where they were left is gone "blown up about 15 years ago" I was told in Brookeborough one Sunday morning.

Is the Patriot Game ambivalent? "The love of one's country is a TERRIBLE thing", in some repub versions this is changed to "wonderful". However Dom Behan wrote so many other rebel songs that "terrible" has probably simply been misinterpreted.

Any more biog info on Feargal O'Hanlon? All I know is that he was age 19, was reared, "weaned", on Pearse, and played senior football for Monaghan. There is another song about him, "Feargal O'Hanlon", first verse,

Oh hark to the tale of young Feargal O'Hanlon, who died in Brookeborough to make Ireland free,for his heart he had pledged to the love of his country, and he took to the hills like a bold "rapparee" [outlaw].


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Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: MartinRyan
Date: 21 Feb 02 - 03:35 PM

Tim

Yes to Wexford, as far as I know. Yes to Peninsular War. Maybe to "bawnoge" - but it was quite a general Irish word for a village green, really.

Regards


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Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: Suffet
Date: 21 Feb 02 - 04:54 PM

I heard "Battlefields of Spain" sung by three men in a pub -- the King's Head, I believe -- in Galway in 1987. I asked one of them to sing it again so I could write down the words. That's all I know about the song. I never heard it before or since.

--- Steve


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Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: MartinRyan
Date: 21 Feb 02 - 04:58 PM

Thanks Steve - I'll see what I can find out about its origins.

Regards


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Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: Bennet Zurofsky
Date: 21 Feb 02 - 05:48 PM

It should be noted that Dominic Behan was the brother of Brendan Behan, the great Irish playwright and raconteur ("The Borstal Boy" may be his best known work).

I had the pleasure of hearing Dominic Behan perform many years ago, and he was no slouch of a raconteur himself. His Topic l.p. mentioned above is well worth acquiring (if you can).

-Bennet


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Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: greg stephens
Date: 21 Feb 02 - 05:55 PM

I had the pleasure of Dominic Behan threatening to punch me in the face while we were discussing rebel songs on licensed premises rather late one night. I'm sure he would have made a lively contribution to the present thread.


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Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: Janice in NJ
Date: 21 Feb 02 - 07:19 PM

Greg, I first heard "Come All You Young Protestants" in Nova Scotia a long time ago. The only reference to it that I can find is on the BBC website. From there you can follow a link to a sound clip, but which has only two verses.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/war/troubles/music/trad.shtml


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Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: Big Tim
Date: 22 Feb 02 - 02:23 AM

Thanks Martin, re bawnogue, I didn't know that. I discovered the Bawnogue in Wexford when reading about Father Murphy of Boolavogue fame. Just before he was captured he spent some time hiding with relatives, The Murphy's of the Bawnogue, in north Wexford.


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Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: Sourdough
Date: 22 Feb 02 - 03:19 AM

Greg Stephens and I seem to have had a common experience, being threatend to be punched in the face by Dominic Behan. In my case, it was not in a pub but in a theater. I was stage manager of a play called "The Connection" in New York. It was an underground hit and after it was discovered, for the next four years, almost every night it seems that there was at least one celebrity in the audience.

On this particular night, Rosemary, who was house manager, was taking tickets at the door that led from the lobby into the theater. A burly man with a cigar sticking straight out from his mouth was trying to get past her. The NYPD is very clear about smoking in theaters and letting him pass with his cigar was out of the question. When he refused to put out his cigar, Rosemary rang the buzzer for me. This was the equivalent of a "Hey, Rube" and I was out there in a moment. Rosemary was tough but she was outclassed by the size of this man and his fast mouth.

I got between him and the theater door before I recognized him. Although I had seen pictures of him, I think it was his voice that really gave him away. I had heard him being interviewed on the radio about his book, probably "Borstal Boy". Tonight, he was feeling pretty pugnacious but I am six two and a few years younger. He looked at me with some respect. He thought fir a moment about the various alternatives open to him and decided to comply with the NYPD fire regulations.

He actually agreed to put out his cigar. Then he asked me, and I quote, "What should I do with this cigar?". There was an awkward pause before we both laughed. He handed me the cigar and walked in to take his seat and see the play.

Sourdough


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Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: greg stephens
Date: 22 Feb 02 - 06:17 AM

sourdough i think your memory is clouded. your description sounds like Brendan, not his brother Dominic . They both had noses which looked as if they'd been multiply broken, but Brendan was burlier and Dominic skinnier. both very pugnacious! make sure you let us all know how you get on in Ireland


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Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: Sourdough
Date: 22 Feb 02 - 01:05 PM

Greg:

You are absolutely right, it was Brendan Behan and not Dominic. I must have been working too late, last night. I should not be allowed near a keyboard more than fourteen hours a day.

Sourdough

(Thanks for the kindness of "clouded".)


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Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 05 Apr 02 - 05:23 AM

"The Battlefields of Spain" was written by Joe Mulherron of Belfast/Derry, using "Bantry Girl's Lament" as the model. He also included it in a set of balladsheets he produced many years ago - which had an interesting consequence. When he had finished screen-printing them on to 500 sheets of high quality paper ("A pound a sheet, damn it!", as he said)he realised he'd overlooked a typo in the spelling of "Connolly Column"! This explains why, during a run of Spanish Civil War songs at the recent Inishowen Singing Festival, Frank Harte was heard to call on Joe to "Give us the one about the Con-ON-olly Column!"!

Regards


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Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 15 Jun 02 - 01:47 AM

Hey sourdough! I once made a trip to NYC, back in 1960 I think, and one of the plays I saw was Gelber's "The Connection" I was stunned and amazed and truly moved as no other play had moved me and none since! I would like to digress from this thread to thank you and all those who contributed to that incredible evening! With deepest gratitude:

CB


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Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: Suffet
Date: 15 Jun 02 - 07:52 AM

Martin:

Job well done in tracing the origins of "The Battlefields of Spain"! Thanks.

--- Steve


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Subject: Patriot Game (Protestant answer)
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 06 Feb 03 - 12:17 PM

the BBC site Janice in NJ mentioned is worth a look at. From that site here are the verses to the same air as The Patriot Game, which is also featured. I heard the Loyalist version in Belfast some years ago, so I think it was popular with that section of the community.

Come all ye Young Protestants.
Come all ye young Protestants and list while I sing
For the love of old Ulster is a wonderful thing
We'll fight to defend it with tooth and with nail
And we will make certain that truth will prevail

Around 1690 at a place called the Boyne
Our forefathers gathered with William to join
God's blessing was on them as they entered the fray
And it's due to those heroes we're freemen today


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Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: belfast
Date: 08 Feb 03 - 11:17 AM

About the "The Battlefields of Spain" quoted above. I've started another thread about this song. ( click here for "The Civil War in Spain"


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Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jul 03 - 06:54 PM

Somehow the "bawnoge" link in Bantry Girls' Lament wound up here. So this comment is about that song. In the first two verses the term "patriarch" appears; in the context of the song and the tradition of Irishmen fighting overseas, it makes sense to me that the term should be "patriot," not patriarch.

R. Singer
Seattle


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Subject: RE: Patriot Game
From: MartinRyan
Date: 31 Jul 03 - 05:05 AM

Agreed. Despite that, "patriarch" is often sung!

Regards


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Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: GUEST,bob af
Date: 05 Jan 06 - 11:48 PM

Regarding the Patriot Game/With God On Our Side song, Dominic Behan wrote the following to me in a January 31, 1976 letter from Happendon,Douglas in Lanark, Scotland:

"Thank you for the interest you are showing in my song, `The Patriot Game'. Some years ago I tried to get Dylan to settle the matter as one artist to another. I rang him at an hotel in London where he had been living then. Dylan's reaction was that I didn't have the resources to take any legal action against him, and he therefore replied, `Get lost, bum! The songs I write make other people's attempts at art good.'

"Mr. Dylan was, of course, correct in his view of my financial state. I couldn't take him to court, and, my publishers in America, `The Richmond Organisation', think the whole matter too costly and not worth the candle.

"I wrote the song (words and music) on the 1st January, 1957, after Feargal O'Hanlon had been shot dead the night previously.

"Thanks very much for your interest, though, when dealing with folk as ruthless as Mr. Dylan, I doubt if you and the other honest people around can do a lot of good.

"Thanks anyway and best wishes,

"Dominic Behan."


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Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: ard mhacha
Date: 20 Apr 08 - 06:46 AM

Big Tim in a previous Thread inquired as to the meaning of `when Moneymore come round, and they will weep that their bold captain is nowhere to be found` in the song, `The Bantry girls lament`.
The term Moneymore could apply to a pattern or a fair, and the faction fights which took place at some fairs, mostly in the province of Munster, the captain was the term used to describe the leaders of the factions.
I have also seen Moneymore spelt as mon-na -hoor.
Delia Murphy was the first person I heard sing `The Bantry girls lament`


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Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: Jim McLean
Date: 20 Apr 08 - 09:35 AM

This topic has been covered in another thread where I related the discussion between myself and Dylan regarding Dominic's song. You only have to compare the lyrics of God on our Side to The Patriot Game to see that Dylan not only got the tune from Dominic's song (irrespective of whether it was traditional or not) but aped the words.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 20 Apr 08 - 11:33 AM

Jim-
"Dylan not only got the tune from Dominic's song (irrespective of whether it was traditional or not) "..hard to claim that someone swiped a tune that's been traditional for many, many years. Even if Behan claimed it.

BTW, check out "Liam's Patriot Game" in Digitrad.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: meself
Date: 20 Apr 08 - 12:20 PM

'check out "Liam's Patriot Game"' - Seems rather mean-spirited - or am I misinterpreting it?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: GUEST,Joe (Waverley Station) Casey
Date: 20 Apr 08 - 05:55 PM

Jim,

Same Jim I met at Waverley Station on Friday evening ?

Next time I'll buy you pint, and we can sing the whole of 'Seven Deadly Sins' !

Cheers

Joe.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: Jim McLean
Date: 20 Apr 08 - 06:02 PM

Dick, what I meant was that if you compare Dylan's verse ' Oh my name it means nothing, my age it means less' to Dominic's ' My name is O'Hanlon, my age is sixteen' etcetera (and excuse my not remembering the words exactly) it is obvious he was writing his song with Dominic's in mind. He asked me about the Patriot Game when he heard Nigel Denver singing it in the Troubadour way back and I explained what Dominic had in mind. So I'm not saying he swiped the tune, just that he used Dominic's song as a vehicle upon to which to fashion his own. I'm only stating the obvious.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: GUEST,Greycap
Date: 20 Apr 08 - 06:27 PM

As a side issue, I had the privilege of being Dominic Behan's house guest for a week, together with my pal, the late Dave Brady, back in 1962 when we we both aspiring singers in London. We had been sleeping in Dave's car in Hyde Park due to financial caution (spend less on sleeping comfort, more on beer).
This kind and talented man met us at the Singer's Club, apparently thought we had some kinda potential, offered us house room for the week, great hospitality, and introduced us to some fine singers, Nigel Denver, Ramblin' Jack Elliot, Martin Carthy, etc.
I understood him to be the author of 'Patriot Game', not Brendan.
He taught us both great songs, as did Nigel Denver, which I still sing today. Where is Nigel, anyone know?
He was a very nice man, a kind man to two aspiring singers, I can say no more, I miss him.
Roger Knowles


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Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: Jim McLean
Date: 21 Apr 08 - 04:58 AM

Hi Roger, Nigel lives in Birmingham where he still does the odd gig. I shall be seeing him in early May as we usually travel to a beer festival in Germany every year, for a few days. I'll give him your regards.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: Thompson
Date: 21 Apr 08 - 06:06 AM

When was the Young Protestants version written or sung? Was it a copy of Behan's song or vice versa?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Patriot Game
From: GUEST,Greycap
Date: 21 Apr 08 - 04:39 PM

Jim,
Thanks,
Roger


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