God Save Ireland

Subject: God Save Ireland
From: GUEST,Extra Stout
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 01:00 PM

Does anyone here know the names of "the noble hearted three" referred to in Sullivan's "God Save Ireland", or any other particulars of the song?

Subject: RE: God Save Ireland
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 01:19 PM

The three Fenians were: Allen, Larkin and O'Brien. History here (referred to in thread on the Patriot Game). History

Subject: RE: God Save Ireland
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 01:21 PM

Scroll down to God Save Ireland on the above BBC webside and you will find a clickie for the song.

Subject: RE: God Save Ireland
From: masato sakurai
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 06:21 PM

Lyrics (GOD SAVE IRELAND) in the database.

~Masato

Subject: RE: God Save Ireland
From: Janice in NJ
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 06:54 PM

From the official RTE (Radio-Television Éireann) website:

On 18 September 1867 a police van conveying two Fenian prisoners, Colonel Kelly and Captain Deasy, to Manchester Jail was attacked by armed men. The prisoners were released and made good their escape. In the scuffle Sergeant Charles Brett was shot and killed. William Philip Allen, Michael Larkin and "William Gould" (Michael O'Brien) were arrested, with others, and tried in October before a special commission in Manchester. All three pleaded not guilty. Allen said he was born and reared in Bandon, County Cork; O'Brien said he was born in Cork and was a citizen of the United States. All three were condemned to death and publicly hanged at Manchester Jail on 23 November 1867. Bitter public feeling was aroused in Ireland by their conviction on what many regarded as flimsy evidence. The song "God Save Ireland", written to commemorate them by T D Sullivan, became widely popular.


[Note: Sullivan borrowed the tune from "Tramp, Tramp, Tramp" by George F. Root.]

Subject: RE: God Save Ireland
From: masato sakurai
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 08:04 PM

Some of the related sites and pages:

THE MANCHESTER MARTYRS

The Manchester Martyrs: Allen, Larkin and O'Brien

The Manchester Martyrs

THE MANCHESTER MARTYRS" (the same contents as above)

Senchus Mór For Justice

Famous O'Briens in History

~Masato

Subject: RE: God Save Ireland
From: Teribus
Date: 21 Feb 02 - 04:04 AM

Masato - Thanks for the site links above.

It was interesting reading down through them that no mention is made of the 1866 Fenian Rebellion, largely instigated and financed by the Fenian Brotherhood in America. The "rebellion" basically amounted to a minor campaign of bombings and assassination in England and an abortive attempt to invade Canada from the US - If memory serves me correctly they did manage to blow up General Brock's memorial at Queenstown, but that was about it. One surprising statistic of the time was that the bulk of those serving in the British Army of that period (approx 66%) were Irishmen.

Very interesting - thanks again.

Subject: RE: God Save Ireland
From: Fiolar
Date: 21 Feb 02 - 08:40 AM

The Fenians of the abortive 1867 rebellion were riddled with Government agents. Probably one of the most tragic figures of the situation was Thomas D'Arcy Magee (author of the poem "The Celts"). Born in Ireland he later became a member of the Canadian parliament and in 1868 denounced a threatened Fenian invasion of Canada. As a result he was shot dead outside his home in Ottawa.

Subject: RE: God Save Ireland
From: Suffet
Date: 21 Feb 02 - 09:23 AM

Thomas D'Arcy McGee was only one of two Canadian political leaders ever to be assassinated. The other was Pierre Laporte, the Quebec Minister of Labour who was murdered by Quebec separatists in 1970. Both were killed by "their own people" who regarded them as turncoats, or in Dominic Behan's words, "Quislings who sold out the patriot game." (In the case of McGee, that would be an anachronism, as Quisling came long after McGee.)

Are there any songs about either McGee or Laporte. I would suspect there is at least one about McGee.

--- Steve

Subject: RE: God Save Ireland
From: GUEST,Extra Stout
Date: 21 Feb 02 - 12:03 PM

Thanks, everybody.

Subject: RE: God Save Ireland
From: UB Ed
Date: 21 Feb 02 - 01:45 PM

OK Steve, keep going. Who was Quisling?

Ed

Subject: RE: God Save Ireland
From: Suffet
Date: 21 Feb 02 - 05:05 PM

Vidkun Quisling was the prime minister of Norway during the German occupation of 1940-1945. He was a notorious Nazi sympathizer and a more than willing Nazi collaborator. After the war, Quisling was executed for treason. The name Quisling has since come to mean traitor.

--- Steve

Subject: RE: God Save Ireland
From: Teribus
Date: 22 Feb 02 - 03:32 AM

UB Ed, should you ever visit Oslo, there is a very good museum in Akerhusfestning that covers the period of occupation and the activities of the Norwegian Resistance Movement.

On the west side of Oslo Fjord down towards Asker there is a Hotel and Conference Centre that Vikund Quisling requisitioned as his summer house during the war. When he took it over he wanted to extend it so that he could entertain his German guests. In the reception area there is a letter from the local Kommune planning department turning down is application - needless to say the Germans overturned the decision, but it illustrates wonderfully how "little people" in big situations can cause irritation and humble, albeit momentarily, the so called great.

Subject: RE: God Save Ireland
From: UB Ed
Date: 22 Feb 02 - 01:28 PM

Many thanks. These threads (Patriot Games included) are what keep me checking into the 'Cat.

Ed

Subject: RE: God Save Ireland
From: greg stephens
Date: 22 Feb 02 - 01:42 PM

Don't forget that Dominic Behan wrote the "Patriot Game" for a character in a play. It doesn't necessarily reflect his own political position absolutely. It was created to work in a dramatic context, though i know he always sung it himself afterwards.

Subject: Lyr Add: THE SMASHING OF THE VAN
From: maire-aine
Date: 23 Feb 02 - 07:44 PM

I recently came across a song called The Smashing of the Van on an old record album by Sam Hinton called The Real McCoy. I hope I don't mess up the line breaks here:

THE SMASHING OF THE VAN.

Attend you gallant Irishmen, and listen for a while,
I'll sing to you the praises of the sons of Erin's isle.
It's of those gallant heroes who voluntarily ran
To release two Irish Fenians from an English prison van.

On the 18th of September boys, 'twas a dreadful year,
When sorrow and excitement ran throughout all Lancashire,
At a gathering of the Irish boys, they volunteered each man
To release those Irish prisoners out of the prison van.

Kelly and Deasy were there names, I suppose you knew them well.
Remanded for a week they were in Belle Vue jail to dwell.
When taking of the prisoners back their trial for to stand,
To make a safe deliverance they conveyed them in a van.

William Deasy was a man of good and noted fame,
Likewise Michael Larkin we'll never forget his name.
With young Allen and O'Brien, they took a part so grand
In that glorious liberation and the smashing of the van.

In Manchester one morning those heroes did agree,
Their leaders Kelly and Deasy should have their liberty.
They drank a health to Ireland and soon made up the plan -
To meet the prisoners on the road and take and smash the van.

With courage bold, those heroes went and soon the van did stall
They cleared the guards from back and front and then smashed in the tall.
But in blowing open of the lock, they chanced to kill a man,
So three men must die on the scaffold high for smashing of the van.

One cold November morning in eighteen-sixty-seven,
These martyrs to their country's cause as sacrifice were given.
"Oh God Save Ireland!" was the cry, all through the crowd it ran,
The Lord have mercy on the boys who helped to smash the van.

So now kind friends, I will conclude, I think it would be right
That all true-hearted Irishmen together should unite,
Together should sympathise and do the best we can
To keep the memories evergreen of the boys that smashed the van.

Subject: RE: God Save Ireland
From: masato sakurai
Date: 23 Feb 02 - 09:21 PM

"The Smashing of the Van" is also discussed HERE and HERE (lyrics posted) in the Forum.

There're at least two other Manchester martyrs songs. One is titled "COME OUT YE BLACK AND TANS" or "Come Out Black Tans", which is discussed HERE in the Forum, lyrics in the DT(CLICK HERE). The other is DOWN ERIN'S LOVELY LEE in the DT.

On "God Save Ireland", T.D. Sullivan wrote:

"Desirous of paying such tribute as I could to the memory of the patriots, I wrote, a few days after their execution, a song which had for its refrain the prayer which they had uttered in the docks, 'God Save Ireland'. With a view to getting it into immediate use, I fitted the words to a military air of American origin, 'Tramp, tramp, tramp, the boys are marching', which was popular at the time in Ireland. My intentions were fully realised; on the day of its publication in The Nation -- December 7th, 1867 -- it was sung in the homes of Dublin working men; on the following day I heard it sung and chorussed by a crowd of people in a railway train at Howth." (T.D. Sullivan, Recollections of troubled times in Irish politics, p. 178; quoted from Georges-Denis Zimmermann, Songs of Irish Rebellion, Allen Figgis, 1967, pp. 267-268)

Two broadsides in the Bodleian Library:

GOD SAVE IRELAND (Printer: Pearson, T. (Manchester); Date: between 1850 and 1899)

GOD SAVE IRELAND! (New version) (Printer: [s.n.] [s.l.]; Date: [s.a.])

~Masato

Subject: RE: God Save Ireland
From: The Pooka
Date: 23 Feb 02 - 11:15 PM

Another very enlightening Mudcat thread, & thankyou. Suffet Steve, my quick amatuer searches (OK, on Google "advanced" [sic], I admit it) turned up no song on the murdered Pierre Laporte; nor lyric of lament for the highly prominent Thomas D'Arcy McGee, though there's a published work entitled "Thomas D'Arcy McGee: A Funeral Oration" by Aeneas McDonnell Dawson; nor pattern-cut martyrdom anthem for McGee's convicted-but-disputed killer, alleged IRB man Patrick James Whelan, who I learned was the last man to be publicly hanged in Canada, in 1869. The latter's the likeliest song material, would be *my* guess & I probably just missed it. (Lads? D'youse have it?) D'Arcy McGee's politics evidently migrated suddenly from the pike to the Crown, so, y'know. But I gather he's a, or maybe *the*, Father of Confederation and a revered national figure, an Irish-Canadian icon still. One learns a lot on, and via, the 'Cat. Thanks again. For a thumbnail bio of D'Arcy McGee,
Click here

Subject: RE: God Save Ireland
From: Suffet
Date: 23 Feb 02 - 11:35 PM

And I alway thought that Louis Riel, the Métis guerilla leader, was the last person publicly hanged in Canada. That was on November 16, 1885, in Regina. I could be wrong about it being in public, but it was outdoors.

There have been several songs written about Riel. To this day he is the subject of controversy, much like John Brown in the USA.

--- Steve

Subject: RE: God Save Ireland
From: The Pooka
Date: 24 Feb 02 - 02:02 AM

Suffet, well if Riel was stretched Outdoors, that's *something*, right? (Hanging a man *indoors*, though... hm, seems a bit cramped...)The purported datum about Whelan could just as easily be wrong too. Bet it is. But Jeez, now I gotta l'arn me about Métis. Well, another day.

Having studied about him but found no song, I now wanna *write* one for Thomas D'Arcy McGee. I *do*, dammit. Trouble is, (a) I dunno how to write music (I'm a civilian y'see); therefore (b) I'll have to cheat off of existing melody; but (c) his full name has too many syllabobbles & accents in th' wrong places t'fit inter yer basic Roddy McCorley paradigm & all I've come up with so far is Eamonn na Chnuic which is a (political?) lovesong & thus seems odd; plus (d) lyrically, it's going to be difficult to Bridge the Gap, even with good genes, between the bold D'Arcy's Fenianism and his subsequent Crossover to the Empire. O dear O dear O dear, I have a quare feelin' there'll be be a new face in Heaven in th' mornin'.

Well, another day.

Never-the-less: O Canada, we stand on guard for Thee.

Subject: RE: God Save Ireland
From: Amergin
Date: 24 Feb 02 - 02:13 AM

Greg Stephens said: Don't forget that Dominic Behan wrote the "Patriot Game" for a character in a play. It doesn't necessarily reflect his own political position absolutely. It was created to work in a dramatic context, though i know he always sung it himself afterwards.

I am curious....what was the name of the play? I always assumed he was more radical than his brother...and had no idea he wrote plays himself....I would be interested in locating it...

Subject: RE: God Save Ireland
From: greg stephens
Date: 24 Feb 02 - 04:25 AM

I'm sorry, I don't know the facts about the play, I didn't see it or read about it, I just heard stories. I don't think Dominic wrote the play, I seem to remember it was at the Abbey thatre in Dublin. It opened with a a blind(?) street singer in a dirty old coat singing the Patriot Game in front of the curtain. I can't remember any other details of the production, I don't even know if Dominic was the singer or only the song-writer. I'm afraid the only time i ever talked to him about song-writing we were both a little tired and emotional!

Subject: RE: God Save Ireland
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Feb 02 - 08:17 PM

In an earlier post to this thread someone expressed surprise that 66% of the British army in the 1860s was Irish. Not so surprising really when you realise that 'taking the Queen's(Victoria) shilling' was often the only alternative to starving or at best, casual or seasonal labor on the land. This was so because those people in Ireland who had capital chose to invest it in Britain or elsewhere rather than in the country where it was created by the sweat of the poor. Ireland had no equivalent to the industrial revolution so landless people surplus to the requirements of a rural-based economy could emigrate if they could raise the dough, join the army, or starve.

Subject: RE: God Save Ireland
From: The Pooka
Date: 25 Feb 02 - 07:11 PM

We've thread-drifted quite a way from God Save Ireland, but it all seems connected somehow...GUEST, re taking the Queen's shilling over seasonal labor or starvation -

I wish the Queen of England would write to me in time,
And place me in some regiment, all in my youth and prime;
I'd fight for Ireland's glory, from the clear daylight of dawn,
And I never would return again, to plow the Rocks of Bawn.

Last verse, "The Rocks of Bawn", as rendered by Paddy Clancy, RIP. Slightly different version on the DT,
Click here

Subject: RE: God Save Ireland
From: Janice in NJ
Date: 07 Aug 03 - 01:55 AM

I just made up this new final verse and final chorus to "God Save Ireland" and sang them earlier this night in a pub near Buffalo, New York:

When we look back through the years,
And we wash away the tears,
For the lives so bravely given for our land,
Let's admit the time has come,
When neither bullet, bomb, nor gun,
Will make our island nation free and grand.

And it's "God save Ireland!" say the heroes,
And "God save Ireland!" say we all,
Through nonviolent peaceful means,
May we realise Ireland's dreams,
And may blessings be upon us one and all!

The reception was damn chilly, to say the least. Nothing like rooting for endless war from 3,000 miles away!