In praise of Martin Carthy

Subject: In praise of Martin Carthy
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 07:11 PM

[original message blank - Joe Offer]

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Subject: RE: In praise of Martin Carthy
From: John P
Date: 20 Feb 02 - 10:06 PM

"The Source"

Subject: RE: In praise of Martin Carthy
From: Wolfgang
Date: 21 Feb 02 - 04:09 AM

Old threads in praise of Martin Carthy (with the odd dissenter):

Martin Carthy
Martin Carthy

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: In praise of Martin Carthy
From: Nemesis
Date: 21 Feb 02 - 02:19 PM

See Martin Carthy tonight Thursday at the Royal Oak, Lewes, Sussex for only three quid!!

Subject: RE: In praise of Martin Carthy
From: GUEST,dermod in salisbury
Date: 21 Feb 02 - 02:55 PM

I remember when you could listen to Martin Carthy all night for the price of lemon tea in the Loft coffee bar in Hampsead. A class act even then, and great guy. In reading through the old thread links, his seminal influence is obviously appreciated. Sad though, poor old Burl Ives never seems to get a mention in the father figure stakes. But there you are - a mention!

Subject: RE: In praise of Martin Carthy
From: Mr Red
Date: 21 Feb 02 - 06:06 PM

I lived with a lass who didn't like Martin Carthy - GOD! those ten years seem like another life now. UK catters who want to praise Martin might like to add their voice to the BBC website message board on Desert Island Disks.

Subject: RE: In praise of Martin Carthy
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 22 Feb 02 - 04:28 AM

Good Lord, someone else who can remember "The Loft" in Hampstead - Spag Bol for about two shillings - unless you were performing in which case you got it free. Brings back memories of the early "Enterprise" days with "The Riversiders", then "The North West Three" and of course Terry Gould.

Subject: RE: In praise of Martin Carthy
From: MikeofNorthumbria
Date: 22 Feb 02 - 07:12 AM

Hell yeah! The Loft, in Primrose Gardens, just off the Finchley Road was a wonderful place. I had a regular Friday night gig there for a few weeks in 1964, and although the pay wasn't too generous (fifteen shillings, a plate of spag boll, and as many cups of tea or coffee as you could drink) the company was always great.

In those far-off days, the young Carthy was already recognised as a phenomenal singer and guitarist - but hasn't he come a long way since then? An amazing musician, a great entertainer, and an all round good chap. But what I'd particularly stress (for anyone who hasn't already noticed it) is his massive artistic integrity.

At several points in his career, Martin established a repertoire and a performing style which gained the respect and admiration of a substantial audience. Each time, he could have kept his public happy and himself gainfully employed more or less indefinitely by staying put. But he kept on looking for new challenges, re-thinking or discarding material that no longer satisfied him, and rebuilding his style and technique from the ground up whenever this seemed desirable.

Like many of his admirers, I found a few of his experiments uncongenial(though they were always thought-provoking.) But even when these experiments turned some former supporters against him entirely, he didn't rage or sulk, he just kept doing what he felt he had to do until they caught up with him again. Which mostly they did. All too few artists, in any genre, have that kind of honesty, and that much courage. So well done Martin - keep on surprising us!

Wassail!

Subject: RE: In praise of Martin Carthy
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 12 Oct 02 - 01:28 AM

refresh, there is a good mini biography on the bbc 2 website.

Subject: RE: In praise of Martin Carthy
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 12 Oct 02 - 03:47 AM

Aye---a brilliant guitarist, and accomplished performer; but if Martin's opening offering was a dirge[ and he knows a thousand--], I adjourned to the nearest bar till the local floor singers came round again!

Subject: RE: In praise of Martin Carthy
From: pavane
Date: 12 Oct 02 - 03:49 AM

Back in 1971 I came across, and sadly didn't buy, a deleted LP by a group called '3 city 4' which it said included Martin Carty and Leon Rosselson. Does anyone remember them? Who else was with them?

Subject: RE: In praise of Martin Carthy
From: GUEST,Wee Tam
Date: 12 Oct 02 - 04:41 AM

Martin Carthy and Jimmie MacGregor both have MBEs, members of the British Empire. Astonishing or what?
Wee Tam.

Subject: RE: In praise of Martin Carthy
From: Harry Basnett
Date: 12 Oct 02 - 07:41 AM

Martin is appearing at the Open Door, Extravaganza 3 at the Bull's Head, Oldham Road, Failsworth, Manchester on Sunday, October 20th. See 'Manchester, Extravaganza 3' thread for details!

Subject: RE: In praise of Martin Carthy
From: John Routledge
Date: 12 Oct 02 - 07:50 AM

An ideal opportunity to give a 2002 appraisal of the man's talent :0)

Subject: RE: In praise of Martin Carthy
From: okthen
Date: 12 Oct 02 - 01:12 PM

Colchester folk club, Monday 14th oct, Carthy & (hopefully) Swarbrick, what mountains have these two moved without really trying.

Subject: RE: In praise of Martin Carthy
From: Lost Chicken in High Weeds
Date: 25 Oct 20 - 03:00 AM

This was the best general Martin Carthy thread (not closed) I could find, and try to utilize existing threads when I just have a comment.

So, I spent most of the day discovering/exploring Ewan MacColl, and assumed I'd be continuing that for a few days straight...and then, on a random lark...I listened to Essential Martin Carthy...dangamighty!

I hate to make "bold statements" under the influence of initial discovery "excitement", but this fellow is, well, inexpressibly awesome at the very least.

I also ran up on this *excellent* interview:

https://www.innerviews.org/inner/martin-carthy.html

I very much love the following quote:
"I’m working with some of the best songwriters that have ever lived and they’re all called “Anon.” I think traditional songs represent some of the finest songs ever written by anybody. And most of them aren’t written by a single person."

Pound for pound I think Martin might just be my favorite discovery since Bob Dylan.

Subject: RE: In praise of Martin Carthy
From: Lost Chicken in High Weeds
Date: 25 Oct 20 - 03:02 AM

Oh, after that last statement I should add that my absolute favorite discovery ever was the Anthology of American Folk Music.

Subject: RE: In praise of Martin Carthy
From: r.padgett
Date: 25 Oct 20 - 04:06 AM

Martin is one of the pioneers of arranging songs, largely traditional with guitar accompaniment ~ his research and practical musical ability have an inspiration to countless folk musicians

I would simply say do the research and sing the songs after finding Martin's traditional singers ~ he isn't the "source" singer ~ so do your own thing and acknowledge his work, then say who the source singer was originally

Ray

Subject: RE: In praise of Martin Carthy
From: Gordon Jackson
Date: 25 Oct 20 - 04:30 AM

I agree, Ray. I admire and enjoy Carthy immensely, but if I do a song that he has previously done, I will see an original source (book or recording) and work out my own arrangement. There are so many performers and bands out there whose versions of songs are based on others’ adaptations, and not on traditional sources.

Subject: RE: In praise of Martin Carthy
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Oct 20 - 04:45 AM

Lost Chicken in High Weeds. Cool that you're making these discoveries. Have you checked out the music of Nic Jones? If you appreciate Martin Carthy, you'll probably enjoy Nic's work too.

Subject: RE: In praise of Martin Carthy
From: keberoxu
Date: 25 Oct 20 - 10:17 AM

It's ghastly to think of losing him ...

Subject: RE: In praise of Martin Carthy
From: Joe G
Date: 25 Oct 20 - 12:12 PM

Ah shame you hadn't posted this yesterday - Martin and his daughter Eliza did a live set from Whitby Brewery for this year's Musicport online festival - sadly it may not be available after the event

Tonight's transmission includes Katie Spencer and the Hut People along with other artists, archive footage, chat and DJ sets

Subject: RE: In praise of Martin Carthy
From: Lost Chicken in High Weeds
Date: 25 Oct 20 - 12:40 PM

Well dang, why would they not make the performance available on YouTube or such afterwards? I went hunting to see if it had turned up anywhere, YT or FB, and no such luck, but did run up on quite a nice discovery of a random "unknown" fellow that I really dig, so I'm quite glad for your comment regardless:

https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=168788&messages

Subject: RE: In praise of Martin Carthy
From: Joe G
Date: 26 Oct 20 - 11:09 AM

I'll let you know if the video is released in future :-)

Subject: RE: In praise of Martin Carthy
From: keberoxu
Date: 02 May 21 - 03:47 PM

I will say that it is an emotional experience for
a USA fan like me to view Martin Carthy's
live-streamed concert on 1 May this year,
after having last seen him in person some thirty-five years ago.

I now have two distinct voices running through my mental recall.
Carthy's voice as I just heard it,
definitely the voice of a man weeks away from his eightieth birthday, and the singing voice he had thirty-five years ago.
What I miss the most are the low notes.
Even his speaking voice is higher than it was.

What I'm trying to say, and not saying well at all, is that
I treasure the opportunity to see and hear Martin Carthy again
regardless of the passage of the years.
He is having memory lapses in concert now --
he could not conclude "Sir Patrick Spens" for one thing,
and he found this "infuriating" (his word) --
but he is ever so welcome, whenever he can make himself heard.
I hope this won't be the last time.

Subject: RE: In praise of Martin Carthy
From: Felipa
Date: 02 May 21 - 04:18 PM

I had never seen Martin Carthy in person but I had a much treasured, much listened to lp of Carthy with Dave Swarbrick. I too was very aware while enjoying the May day concert that Carthy's voice was breathy compared to the rich voice he had when he was younger. But his delivery, repetoire and guitar playing were all impressive.

This year I have also watched and listened to recebt videos of Joan Baez, Peggy Seeger, Shirley Collins and Gordon Lightfoot all passed their 80th birthdays singing and playing. It's encouraging to see they are still in good form. (I'm not sure whether Shirley Collins is still playing instruments, but I could see the other singers were).

I saw Pete Seeger perform briefly a few times when he was about 90. His voice was far from what it used to be, but he could still carry a tune and play the banjo quite well. He had been saying for some years that his memory was not so good, but he still knew words to enough songs. His hearing was poor, but that didn't prevent him playing and singing.

Subject: RE: In praise of Martin Carthy
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 May 21 - 04:27 PM

martyn wyndham read still has a fine voice as does hughie jones.

Subject: RE: In praise of Martin Carthy
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 May 21 - 12:28 PM

i have not heard the concert yet . i have to be in the right mood but when i am i am sure it will be good

Subject: RE: In praise of Martin Carthy
From: Felipa
Date: 03 May 21 - 12:48 PM

Sandman - the concert is only availbable for viewing through Tuesday. I don't know if or when it will be re-issued. And it is 2 hours long, so you may wish to have more than one sitting.

Subject: RE: In praise of Martin Carthy
From: Captain Swing
Date: 03 May 21 - 05:39 PM

I saw Martin Carthy a few years ago in Whitby and, to be honest, he wasn't doing anything that I couldn't do just as well, if not better. Mind you, he was in the Co-op at the time doing some shopping!

Subject: RE: In praise of Martin Carthy
From: keberoxu
Date: 03 May 21 - 09:39 PM

On reflection I'm going to stick my neck out
and risk giving offense with a sort of appraisal.


Martin Carthy's very presence can have
a divisive effect on people who hear him, and
I can testify to this personally --
I've always been very happy with him, but when
I took a member of my family of origin to hear/see him perform,
that relative absolutely hated everything about his performance!
And this is an individual, this relative, who loves trad music.
So it wasn't about the repertoire, it was the presentation and the person.
I certainly felt unhappy with my relative, but I can't change how they feel.


Martin Carthy reminds me a bit of a soldier in some ways.
He is efficient, direct, has a job to do, gets it done.
He has the soldier's stamina for carrying on and keeping going.
All of this pleases me, I feel I am in good hands with him
and it gives me confidence in whatever he chooses to do:
he can take risks in repertoire or presentation, and he can bewilder or surprise me, but he never lets me down.

However some people like my relative,
are all about expression and emotion and drama and aesthetic stuff,
so presentation is crucial to them, and they want to be moved and courted and seduced and so on.
My relative felt personally insulted by Carthy's no-frills manner.
Never wanted to hear/see him perform again.

So, in light of paying to "attend" the livestreamed performance recently,
I have this to add:
if you have already made up your mind about Martin Carthy,
love him or hate him or he leaves you cold or whatever,
what Carthy presented in performance
will confirm what you already think of him.
If you dislike him, you will dislike that most recent performance.
If you cherish him, you will appreciate the performance.
Your mind will not be changed, that's all I'm saying.

Subject: RE: In praise of Martin Carthy
From: Hagman
Date: 04 May 21 - 11:48 PM

MC fans may be interested in the very detailed Martin Carthy Broadcast Archive that is being complied here - https://carthyarchive.wordpress.com/about/

Apologies in advance if this is old news....

Subject: Martin Carthy Bob Davenport 1961
From: GUEST,RJM
Date: 17 Aug 23 - 02:15 AM

https://youtu.be/DNVTzDg08jE

Subject: RE: In praise of Martin Carthy
From: r.padgett
Date: 17 Aug 23 - 03:10 AM

The youtube above from RJM shows I think that the song was not well known and the "lads" were making the words up a bit but with a great feel for the sentiments behind the song ~ the tune is a bit different and has probably changed from usage and standardisation over time ~ actually it is great!

Ray