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What do you do when....
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Subject: What do you do when.... From: Menita Date: 23 Feb 02 - 09:02 AM You've done all the practicing and you've put down the "hair brush mike".You come out of the bathroom and head for folk club stage. There you are and there's your audience and Oh no...What's the first line? Then it's all going really well and they really like you, this is good you think and then oh no...What the hell's the next line?
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Subject: RE: What do you do when.... From: Bat Goddess Date: 23 Feb 02 - 09:31 AM Mostly stop thinking about it -- the song should be more or less on "automatic." There are songs I do ("Bottle of the Best" f'rinstance) that I don't dare think about (except to make sure I don't cross thread the second verse and the final one). But, lord knows, we've all done it -- I put together a tape once (Great Bay Company -- Warts and All") of most of our musical circle, usually at parties and such, but some performances, where each and every one of us has at least one "oh shit" verse. (Actually, that's a good thing to avoid saying if you're on stage ;-) Other times something distracts you and it's gone. Sigh. Sometimes you can recover and just do another bridge between verses and give yourself time for it to come back. Sometimes it's just gone and you can wrap it up with the chorus or something and do something else. Most of the time if you miss a verse, no one notices if you don't point it out. (Sad, but true. Though if you sing in a loud environment -- like The Press Room in Portsmouth, NH) anyone further away than the other side of the table probably can't hear you anyway.) Or fake the words (or just mumble) to get to the part you DO remember -- nobody will notice. The main thing is to have fun singing -- and everyone else will, too. Don't panic! (And always know where your towel's at.) Linn |
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Subject: RE: What do you do when.... From: greg stephens Date: 23 Feb 02 - 09:34 AM These are the moments that generate what we term"the folk process". |
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Subject: RE: What do you do when.... From: Menita Date: 23 Feb 02 - 09:48 AM I'd love to hear more of "the folk process" . Something was comforting the other day- I was at a Waterson Carthy Concert and he forgot the words. I thought; even the mighty fall sometimes!! Laters. LA |
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Subject: RE: What do you do when.... From: Jeri Date: 23 Feb 02 - 10:01 AM The mighty fall ALL the time. Amost every "folk icon" I've ever heard has forgotten words. I think if you perform, you should try your hardest to not do that, but realize mistakes are inevitable. What impresses me about the people I respect is what they do with the mistakes. They improvise on the spot, they sing another verse, they sing "la la la," they stop and remember, they ask the audience (if it's a well-known song) - in short, they keep going. |
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Subject: RE: What do you do when.... From: greg stephens Date: 23 Feb 02 - 10:09 AM and with modern technology you can "phone a friend" on the spot. |
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Subject: RE: What do you do when.... From: lady penelope Date: 23 Feb 02 - 11:24 AM "Come on, join in, you all know the words..." I confess to having done that more than once! Sometimes songs I know forwards backwards and upside down are the worst ones. The minute I actively try to remember the words, I blank. Other than that, all you can do is present a cool, calm exterior and follow all the preceeding advice. Or you could try seguing into another song and see if anyone notices? Good luck! TTFN M'Lady P. |
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Subject: RE: What do you do when.... From: C-flat Date: 23 Feb 02 - 11:33 AM These moments occur with everyone but the more experienced performer can cover their tracks with a bit of "intimate chat" or "audience participation" and turn their blank moments to advantage while mentally regrouping. Playing in a band, as I do,it's not nearly as bad a problem and we've played together enough to keep going without many (if any) of the audience spotting one of us going to bits! We've done some llllooonnnggg versions of songs while the singer was waiting for a prompt to take us out of the song! People have actually commented on how much they liked "the new arrangement" |
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Subject: RE: What do you do when.... From: Mudlark Date: 23 Feb 02 - 11:50 AM Hi Lucy Ann....I am an incredibly shy performer, so songs I've sung for 30 years may desert me (usually first lines, next worst thing is reversing parts of verses). For the past few months I've been volunteering with Hospice, to sing in extended and critical care facilities. Some of these places cater to Alzheimer and dementia clients, and singing for these people can be VERY distracting. I know some, at least, are enjoying, as toes are tapped, smiles appear when they recognize a song. But their responses are uninhibited and often intrusive. I've had my face patted, my hair examimed, hummers, talkers and hollerers abound. Needless to say, I've lost it singing at just about every session, at one point or another. In consequence, I'm much more at ease now with flubs of all kinds, and find that this self confidence carries over into other settings as well. Try it! As always, giving turns out to be even more about getting... |
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Subject: RE: What do you do when.... From: Les from Hull Date: 23 Feb 02 - 03:25 PM I think that we all forget words of songs from time to time. The rewarding thing is that the people who are listening to us, in a singaround or in a concert, usually quite understand, and may even help out with the missing line. I know it's very frustrating, but its perhaps because many of us do lots of songs, and are often learning/writing new stuff. |
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Subject: RE: What do you do when.... From: Bat Goddess Date: 23 Feb 02 - 03:51 PM A couple years ago I was at a Lou Killen house concert and realized he had exactly the same problem I do with the first two verses of "Three Score and Ten." You get to the second verse "Me thinks" and, remembering the first verse "Me thinks" stop to think about if you've sung that verse already -- screws ya up every time. It's frustrating sometimes when the lead singer forgets some words and looks to one of the harmony singers (who knows the song as well as he/she) for the words, but when you're singing along with someone, you're using a different part of the brain than when you're remembering the verses/words in the proper order to sing them. Sigh. Yeah, it's the ones you know frontwards, backwards and inside out that drive you crazy. I got crossthreaded in the 2nd/3rd verse of "Nine Times a Night" last night -- I've only been singing it for 20 years. Tried but I couldn't even jump verse to get back on track. So I did it again a little later. (Unfortunately starting it a little higher than I should have.) Linn |
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Subject: RE: What do you do when.... From: Amergin Date: 23 Feb 02 - 04:01 PM me i have just gone onto another song...after apologising.... |
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Subject: RE: What do you do when.... From: Menita Date: 23 Feb 02 - 04:38 PM I'll tell you why I asked the question - my buddy/guitarist and I were at an open mike evening, we sang 3 songs in the first half and were asked to do 3 more in the second. That was really great, but we'd done everything we'd practiced and I'd just finished with my favorite accapella. The MC insisted we do one more- wow I thought, they really like us. So I called my guitarist back on stage and suggested we do an old song we'd done loads of times before, but not for some time. I got half way thru, then it happened! I turned to him and luckily he remembered the words and just carried on where I'd left off. I laughed and so did the audience and it was great fun. Thanks for all your advice, I feel I have a good collection of tips now. All I have to do is remember them when that blood curdling moment occurs again! |
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Subject: RE: What do you do when.... From: Hrothgar Date: 24 Feb 02 - 06:25 AM Instrumental break |
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Subject: RE: What do you do when.... From: Celtic Soul Date: 24 Feb 02 - 09:11 AM Relax, and let the line come...usually it does so only exactly at the time when you need it. And then there are the instances when it does not, and you make a joke, and wait for the music to come around again, and relax a little more, and hope like hell it does not happen again. If it does, apologize, move on with it, and practice the piece all the more before trying that again. At least, this is what I do! :D |
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Subject: RE: What do you do when.... From: Bobert Date: 24 Feb 02 - 10:02 AM Repeat the last verse you sung with a little twist or different inflection. It will be fresh in your mind and allow you to "refresh" your thinkerator and the audience will think you repeated the verse by choice. |
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Subject: RE: What do you do when.... From: Midchuck Date: 24 Feb 02 - 10:28 AM Since I turned 60 I don't worry about it, since everyone knows that's what happens to old people, and I know they won't be surprised or think badly of me for it...so, of course, it doesn't happen nearly as often. Peter. |
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Subject: RE: What do you do when.... From: SINSULL Date: 24 Feb 02 - 11:44 AM I screwed up my courage at the Getaway and started to sing a favorite song I had learned as a child from my aunt. It was gone! And as I tried to work backwards in my head to the first line, either Jed or Mick offered "Don't be nervous. He isn't listening". I laughed and there it was. Just needed to relax. But I could have killed the two of them at the time. |
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Subject: RE: What do you do when.... From: DonMeixner Date: 24 Feb 02 - 01:49 PM The thing not to do is point fingers and ridcule the person in your band who has forgoten the words and is stuck. But don't leave them hanging either look them straight in the eye and say directly into the microphone, "Louis, I think the words you want are Me thinks I see them yet again, spreading their sails a lee." After all they may need to do the same for you someday. Don |
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Subject: RE: What do you do when.... From: Townes Date: 24 Feb 02 - 05:58 PM Lucy Ann the missing words are above you on the ceiling. Have you noticed whenever we forget a line we tend to look up at the ceiling. Are we hoping some how, the words are mysteriously written up there for us, or is in the hope of divine intervention? Seriously though Lucy Ann, it happens to all of us at sometime, don't let it worry you. I usually grab a verse I know just to get me going, no one really notices and I put it down to the folk process or if you like, my version of the song. There have been times when the band I play with has a long intrumental break until the words come back. When you think about it (and maybe even count the number) there are a lot of songs flying round or heads catters, and sometimes they get a bit out of order in the old brains filing system Regards Townes
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Subject: RE: What do you do when.... From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 24 Feb 02 - 06:34 PM It's like the bit in the cartoons where the character walks straight out off the building, with no problem - but then looks down, realises what's happening, and starts to fall.
You never know a song so well it won't happen some time. Basically there are two ways to go - use tricks to cover up, or be open about it. Either can work. But make your mind up which you are doing.
I remember a concert where Eric Bogle blanked completely in a song he knew backwards. He stopped - said something like "This song deserves to be sung with me knowing the words - I'll get back to it" and then he sang another song, and did get back to it afterwards; no problem.
With a song you've got the tune, so you can sing nonsense syllables or play an instrumental break or whatever. When I blanked in a spoken monologue a few weeks back I couldn't see any way out but stop. I suppose I could have switched into the approach adopted by the Kippers with their wordless whistled monologue, but I didn't think of that. |
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Subject: RE: What do you do when.... From: GUEST,KB@work Date: 25 Feb 02 - 05:46 AM Its definitely true that nobody notices/minds a mistake unless you emphasise it by letting it affect the rest of the song. I used to sort of panic & tail off - or my voice would 'wobble' a bit after a mistake & so the mistakes stood out like sore thumbs. Now I just smile & carry on as if it didn't happen, so the focus moves away from the mistake immediately & it doesn't have time to settle into the listeners' conciousness. Amoret (daughter) sang with her own guitar accompaniment for the first time in public on Sat night, and I was amazed how calm she was. She made a few mistakes on the first number, but did not appear at all flustered and just corrected herself & carried on. I know she made mistakes, but I can't remember what they were - but I certainly would have remembered them if she'd panicked noticeably. I would recommend the old crib sheet idea, except I've gone off that a bit since Amoret & I sang a whole song back to front because I put the two sheets of paper in the wrong order! It made little sense sung that way - but again nobody noticed - the sad fact is that people aren't actually paying that much close attention usually. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. We were discussing various singers the other night & I moaned that X always sings the same songs - Amoret felt it didn't matter at all because X sings in such a lovely relaxing way that you can float off & think about other things - which she thinks is part of the appeal of that singer. Kris |
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Subject: RE: What do you do when.... From: Menita Date: 25 Feb 02 - 06:52 AM I was watching Sting in concert at Christmas time and he had his words on a music stand - I think it looks quite professional - I was a bit surprised when he kept looking at them every time he sang the word "Roxanne". I'd have thought he'd have remembered that one! I'm really enjoying reading all the advice. One club we sang at referred to loss of memory as their "Triangle" and it was a good laugh when one by one we fell into it! |
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Subject: RE: What do you do when.... From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 25 Feb 02 - 07:35 AM Of course Sting might have been singing on automatic pilot and reading his correspondence off the music stand, not the words of the song... |
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Subject: RE: What do you do when.... From: Trevor Date: 25 Feb 02 - 11:54 AM My job involves me in thinking about how best to help people to learn things. It's pretty well documented that if 'right brain' hooks (ie connections with the creative) can be made then information is more likely to be retained. I was at a seminar about this 'brain friendly' learning recently and I brought up the subject of learning words of songs. I didn't get much at the time but later received some interesting stuff with a few ideas that may be worth thinking about. If anybody's interested please p-mail me. There's also good reasons why our eyes wander when we're trying to remember something, to do with how we first encountered the information and how we learned it (ie by listening to it, seeing it on the page and so on). I regularly forget lines as well and use cribs, although I usually feel guilty about it. Somebody made some mocking remark the other night about my 'safety net' and then promptly forgot the words to their song. I know what I prefer. I can usually tie my forgetting of lines in with some distraction - that chord didn't sound right, what am I doing next, why is that person in the front row frowning, what is the meaning of life. Any distractions LA? I saw the Sting concert as well. What worried me was why he turned the page between 'Rox...' and '..anne'!
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Subject: RE: What do you do when.... From: GUEST,KB@work Date: 25 Feb 02 - 12:03 PM Dispense with guilt Trevor. If you boldly use a wordsheet and give the impression that its perfectly OK to use it then probably everyone else will assume you're correct to do so. I used to worry about it a lot - but in the scheme of things it doesn't really matter does it - its how you perform that matters. If you do better with then don't feel compelled to do without. Flaming cribsheet-police!!! Kris |
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Subject: RE: What do you do when.... From: Maryrrf Date: 25 Feb 02 - 01:15 PM I rehearse a lot and try to be very well prepared, but I still sometimes forget the words. I didn't used to use crib sheets but now I do, mostly to deal with requests. I try to be sure that I know a song cold before I sing it in public. But, when I draw a blank I either - 1)mumble 2)hum 3) just keep playing until it comes back to me - sometimes I can make it seem like an instrumental break 4)sing the chorus/previous verse again and hope nobody notices. I've almost never just stopped and announced that I forgot the words. Sometimes somebody in the audience will realize what's happening and they almost always wink or flash an understanding smile - usually I don't think anyone notices. I look at it this way - a mistake happens and it's over in a flash. Nobody is going to remember it or dwell upon it except you, the performer. Unless you chronically don't know the songs you sing, it will be quickly forgotten by the audience as long as you just brush over it. |
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Subject: RE: What do you do when.... From: MMario Date: 25 Feb 02 - 01:24 PM Most of the places I sing in public i *cannot* use a crib sheet - and I don't *like* to use them even when I can - It's frustrating that I can sing something word perfect in the car - or at home - or in a friends living room and not get it right elsewhere. (or when that mic is in front of my face) But I do use them. since I sing unaccompianied I don't have the luxury of "vamping 'til ready" or throwing in and instrumentel bridge. |
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Subject: RE: What do you do when.... From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 25 Feb 02 - 02:36 PM If I sing with written words they go right out of my head so I have to keep looking at them. And I find it wrecks the sense of the song. I find I'm just singing the words. I'll do it with a new one maybe while I'm trying to break it in. But if I stick to relying on the written words I'll never move on to the stage where I know the words so I don't think about them at all, and that's the stage where the words get to mean something maybe. And change if they need to, if it's one of my own songs. |
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Subject: RE: What do you do when.... From: Art Thieme Date: 25 Feb 02 - 05:48 PM I started forgetting songs (20 years ago) more than I normally used to so I decided on a plan. I went through every song I knew and put down the first line of all of them in a notebook. That helped me quite a bit---for maybe 3 to 5 more years. Then my hands got numb -- and number. (Turned out not to be carpal tunnel synderome) Then my leg spasms got worse and I becan falling down more than was normal. Got harder to stand up after falling. I didn't tie together the recent memory loss and numb hands and leg problems. Neither did any of the specialists. They trated me separately. Four spinal and neck surgeries and (almost) two wrist surgeries and WORSE memory problems on stage, led me to Mayo Clinic where I was told I'd had MS all the time.
Bottom line:----------If it's raining in Brazil, buy Starbucks. Art Thieme
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Subject: RE: What do you do when.... From: C-flat Date: 25 Feb 02 - 07:13 PM I found that if I took lyric/music sheets on stage my eyes were drawn to them even when I didn't need the prompt. I was being drawn further into my safety net and further away from the audience which appreciates a little eye contact from time to time. Age has provided the solution. I can't see crib sheets unless they're 6in. from my nose so I sing a lot in the car until I get the song down tight. It's the only way!! |
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Subject: RE: What do you do when.... From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 25 Feb 02 - 09:46 PM One night I was singing an old standard of mine, and it disappeared. I kept up the guitar part as long as I dared, and then I spoke to the audience something like this: "I hope you'll forgive a little memory lapse here. It's a NEW song for me. I only learned it about fifty years ago!" Got a good laugh. Then I said, "Well, here's another song that's got most of the same notes in it!" and took off on a galloping rendition of The Great American Bum, which is a great crowd pleaser. Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: What do you do when.... From: GUEST,KB@work Date: 26 Feb 02 - 05:42 AM McGrath & C-flat - you are right - there is a disadvantage to cribsheets if they lure you into reading them even when you do remember the words. Sometimes Art's method of just a few words to prompt the memory is a better bet. You can just write down a clue to the bits you might be likely to forget. I really think its OK to use cribsheets if you are not a professional musician. I am the main wage-earner for our family & so I don't have the time to prepare & memorise enough diverse material well enough to cover all the sessions I go to - and would far rather have a crib-sheet than keep singing the same stuff at every venue. This is mainly because I am a crap guitarist (so my accompaniments are always very simple) and rarely sing a song the same way twice - so there's little point investing huge amounts of time perfecting something that I'm only going to sing a few times. Please note : the above relates only to the situation of playing/singing in a pub session informally. On a proper stage with a paying audience I reckon there's an obligation to be very well prepared - hintsheet probably OK, but not constantly reading a whole cribsheet. kris |
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Subject: RE: What do you do when.... From: greg stephens Date: 26 Feb 02 - 06:29 AM The Coppers sing from songbooks, though you'ld think they'd know the words of the "Wedding Song" and "Adieu Sweet Lovely Nancy" by now. But they are the Coppers and Gods can do what they like. Ordinary mortals should do their best to learn their songs. It's easiest for guitarists... those singers who hang their heads low and mumble have generally got cribsheets taped to the top of the guitar |
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Subject: RE: What do you do when.... From: JennieG Date: 26 Feb 02 - 06:39 AM I know a poet who, when he forgets what line comes next, stops...looks at the audience.....says out loud "turn around once".....does so....and the line comes back to him. He reckons it is the turning around that settles the line back into his brain. People smile, chuckle, settle back and enjoy the rest of his performance. It's not uncommon to see them turning around as they get up from their seats, saying lines of poetry as they do so! Cheers JennieG |
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Subject: RE: What do you do when.... From: Maryrrf Date: 26 Feb 02 - 10:03 AM I agree that it's not a good idea to use cribsheets so I use them sparingly. I find it helps if I write down the titles of the songs I know I can perform well AND THE KEY I SING THEM IN. For some reason, when I'm on stage I often draw a blank about what key to start in and that's one that's very hard to cover up. If I start it out right that's half the battle, right there. And yes it's amazing how songs that you sing perfectly at home/in the car/shower etc. - can fly out of your mind when you're on stage! |
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Subject: RE: What do you do when.... From: the lemonade lady Date: 10 Feb 03 - 10:35 AM refresh |
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Subject: RE: What do you do when.... From: wysiwyg Date: 10 Feb 03 - 10:37 AM I think the most widely-known singalong song is "Watermelon, watermelon, watermelon." People will have fun WITH you if you bumble. It's terror that people have a hard time enjoying. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: What do you do when.... From: rock chick Date: 10 Feb 03 - 11:04 AM It's happened to me on occasions as it does everyone, i either do another verse or get the audience to sing it, it's its a well known song or as they say above la la la it, anyway folkie people are great and they never mind. Just relax and go for it, enjoy. Good luck. |
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Subject: RE: What do you do when.... From: paulo Date: 10 Feb 03 - 12:57 PM Maryrrf You remember the key you sing them in. I don't know the key's of the songs I sing. I start. If it's good I carry on. If not, I know I will not be able to sing some of the notes. So I stop and start again (explaining to the audience that I haven'e got my tight underpants on). As for crib sheets, it depends on where you are singing. If you go somewhere regularly you can't keep singing the same songs every week, so you sometimes have to use a crib sheet to remember new songs. (A good way to do this is to have someone else reading the sheets, if you get stuck thay tell you the next line.) The silliest song I forgot was the January Man when I got the mounths mixed up. Paulo |
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