how to make a turban?

Subject: how to make a turban?
From: Rollo
Date: 23 Feb 02 - 03:49 PM

Around here there seems to be always someone who knows the answer even to the strangest question... So, please, is there anyone out there who can help me with this? How do you tie a turban? How are the dimensions of the sheet?
Or does anyone of you know a page about historical dressings that does not only show pictures but also explain how to do it? I will act as a moorish delegate to the court of charlemagne (800 a.d.)in a little piece of history games we have this year and need a proper costume.

Rollo

Subject: RE: how to make a turban?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Feb 02 - 04:03 PM

Well, here is a site that might be helpful.

Subject: RE: how to make a turban?
From: GUEST,JJ
Date: 23 Feb 02 - 04:03 PM

Does this page help?

JJ

Subject: RE: how to make a turban?
From: InOBU
Date: 23 Feb 02 - 04:27 PM

I am afraid to ask, why do you want to tie a turbin??? Hopefully, a fashion statement, you know blokes who wear em, do so for rather heart felt reasons... Cheers, Larry

Subject: RE: how to make a turban?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 23 Feb 02 - 04:36 PM

Larry, Rollo explained why in his first post. Maybe he also needs somewhere handy to store his free Sorcha Dorchs CD ....

Murray

Subject: RE: how to make a turban?
From: Rollo
Date: 23 Feb 02 - 05:06 PM

Thank you very much, JJ and McGrath. JJs Tip looks very fashioned, exactly like something I imagine a rich moor would wear... Mcgarths Tip I could not open yet, the server seems to ha´ve gone down. But we'll check it later.
Larry and Murray, you got me. the shocking truth is I live just one corner away from the flat where the infamous WTC terrorists lived and two corners away from the institute where they studied in Hamburg/Germany and since I heard a little boy using the term "you muslim" as an insult after sept.11. it seems time to either wear a towel on the head or a brown uniform with swastika motives around here. *ggg*
(Maybe some new yorkers might be annoyed about me making wtc terrorist jokes but I have decided it's time to have a homeric laughter before they make us mad.)

Subject: RE: how to make a turban?
From: InOBU
Date: 23 Feb 02 - 05:29 PM

FROM DOWNTOWN NEW YORK!!! Since I (a New Yorker) didn't get the joke, I have the flu and feel like I have a towel wrapped around my head, well, here is an invitation, Rollo, go to the why U don't want a Sork Dork CD, and enter to win a FREE CD! From downtown NYC! - As my family decends in one line from Rollo, Eric the Red's brother, you have a good chance, due to the usual degree of patronage in these things, of wining a Sorcha Dorcha CD!
Cheers, Larry

Subject: RE: how to make a turban?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Feb 02 - 06:42 PM

If you put "tying a turban" intpo Google you get a bunch of sites, some probably more a lot useful than others. There's a lot of variation between turbans - the Sikh version is quite different from the Afghan and so forth.

Subject: RE: how to make a turban?
From: Gypsy
Date: 23 Feb 02 - 07:59 PM

The last issue of Playboy has exact how to instructions for doing it.

Subject: RE: how to make a turban?
From: InOBU
Date: 23 Feb 02 - 08:50 PM

AH HA! SOmeone who actually reads it for the Articals! I'm impressed! Cheers, Larry

Subject: RE: how to make a turban?
From: catspaw49
Date: 23 Feb 02 - 08:58 PM

You can get better airflow inside with a crossflow design:

The following data is for construction of a 12" diameter wheel. The dimensions for wheel
diameter and blade curvature can be changed proportionately for other size wheels, though the
angles will remain the same.

The end plates are 1 foot diameter discs, cut from 1/4 inch sheet steel, with keyed hubs welded
in to fit a suitable sized shaft (this is dependant on power requirements). The blades are cut
from standard 4 inch steel water pipe (wall thickness is 0.237 inch). Each blade is cut for a 72
degree arc; this can be measured at 1/5 the circumference of the pipe (for a 4" pipe the distance
along the arc would be 2.83 inches, or 0.236 feet). Each length of pipe suitable for blade pieces
will make only 4 blades (each piece 1/5 the pipe's circumference); since there is some loss of
material with each cut, there would not be enough left over after 4 blades and 5 cuts to allow a
5th blade.

The length of each blade must be 3/4 inch longer than the inside width of the wheel (W2) to
allow enough to stick out beyond each side plate for an 1/8 inch welding tab. The slots on the
side plates can be cut with a welding torch. This should require about a 5/16 inch wide cut. For
a more accurate job, the slots could be milled out with a 0.25 inch mill-bit, assuming a milling
machine is available. Every center-of-radius for the arc of each mil cut will fall on a circle of a
circle of 4.47 inch radius as measured from the center of the wheel (again, this is for a 12 inch
wheel). If the wheel is to have 24 blades, each blade will be placed every 15 degrees apart
around the wheel (i.e every 360/24 degrees); and so each center-of-radius will be 15 degrees
apart around the 4.47 inch radius circle. Once the centers are located for the arc of each blade
slot, the arcs are drawn at 2 inch radii, and the slots can be cut.

For constant speed regulation (something essential for running an A.C. generator), a slide gate
valve would have to be added to the nozzle, plus a centrifugal governor to actuate the valve,
(This little mechanism could cost as much or more as all the other materials combined). For
high heads, the entrance works would be connected directly to a pipe.

Design equations for a cross flow turbine:

Width of Nozzle = W1 = (210)(Q)/(D)(sq rt H)
Inside Width of Turbine = W2 = W1 + 1inch
Length of blades = We + 3/4 inch (for 1/4 inch material)
Optimum RPM = (862)(sq rt H)/(D)

Where:
Q = Flow rate in cubic feet per second
D = Diameter of wheel in inches
H = Head at the wheel in feet
W1 = Inside width of nozzle
W2 = Inside width of turbine runner

Hope that helps!!!

Spaw

Subject: RE: how to make a turban?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 23 Feb 02 - 09:02 PM

I will ask my boss (hes Indian).

Subject: RE: how to make a turban?
From: X
Date: 24 Feb 02 - 01:38 AM

Would that be a gas powered turban?

Subject: RE: how to make a turban?
From: John Gray
Date: 24 Feb 02 - 03:16 AM

'spaw, I'm glad you Ohioans can't spell, just look at what we'd be missing out on.
Personally, I like that little double pancake number that those Northern Alliance blokes wear. I reckon it'll be a fashion statement in no time. I want one to wear to golf.

JG/FME

Subject: RE: how to make a turban?
From: Rollo
Date: 24 Feb 02 - 02:49 PM

Yes indeed there are quite big differences in turbins, some are for water, some are for air, some have to run fast or slow, but Spaw's construction is expecially impressing. I am sure as soon I have my head removed for a power plant I will use your turbin. ;-)
McGrath, your tip is indeed very useful. I never learn how to specify properly what I want with this searching engines. I got about 3.500 hits, read about 500 and they were all about fashion for bald ladies, adverts for turban fashion factories and so on. Oi, and the ad of a restaurant named "the urban turban" somewhere in sweden.
Larry, noone gets my jokes, I am customed to this. You really descend from Eiriks brother Rollo? I didn`t know there was a Rollo Thorvaldson, the Sagas I know don't mention him. Is that the same Rollo the Walker who got Duke of Normandy? - And there is a Sorcha Dorch CD to win in that thread? Whoah! I have to look there...

Subject: RE: how to make a turban?
From: InOBU
Date: 24 Feb 02 - 06:42 PM

Yes to all of the above. Larry PS Rollo Ericson, (Eric being Thorvaldson)...

Subject: RE: how to make a turban?
From: InOBU
Date: 24 Feb 02 - 06:44 PM

As far as I know, Rollo the Walker was Leif's brother, our family is related to him... Cheers Larry

Subject: RE: how to make a turban?
From: Rollo
Date: 24 Feb 02 - 06:56 PM

Whoah Larry, if I wasn't a convinced supporter of democracy I would now bow to such a noble highborn!*g* Ever been in Normandy? really nice place, I can understand why your ancestor laid his hands on it.

Subject: RE: how to make a turban?
From: InOBU
Date: 24 Feb 02 - 08:07 PM

Nope, Brittony, Why go a viking in one's own backyard! HaRollo! as earily Otways would say! Cheers Larry

Subject: RE: how to make a turban?
From: InOBU
Date: 24 Feb 02 - 08:12 PM

Anyone saw the Hagar the Horrible, where they are decided where to go viking... and Hagar shouts, Let's go to Italy for the Women! - a viking replies, What Womens are as Buitiful as Our DANISH Vomens!, "OK, HOW bout Ireland for the music!" "What music compares to our sagas! (cheers)" HoKay, How Bout France for the Wine! - What wine can compete with our Viking Mead! from the back of the crowd... Vy don't we raid Denmark!? YA YA Ve GO TO RAID DANMARK... and Hargar ... shaking his head... hand to head says something like , yomping yimminey!

Subject: RE: how to make a turban?
From: Kim C
Date: 25 Feb 02 - 10:47 AM

We wear turbans in my belly dancing class all the time. Keeps your hair out of the way, and they actually do look quite chic. :-) 'Course we wear fun colors, which makes them really more like African headwraps than what most people think of as "turbans." I know how to tie one, but without giving a visual demonstration, it's almost impossible for me to explain.

Subject: RE: how to make a turban?
From: InOBU
Date: 25 Feb 02 - 10:55 AM

By the way... why don't they allow knitting on planes anymore... they are afraid you will knit an afgan. Cheers Larry

Subject: RE: how to make a turban?
From: Rollo
Date: 25 Feb 02 - 05:41 PM

HUAHUAHUHAAAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAhahahaaaaaaaajjjjnnnnnghhhhhhhh!*gasping for air*

Subject: RE: how to make a turban?
From: M.Ted
Date: 26 Feb 02 - 01:10 PM

You have brought up a delicate question, Larry--I have been watching TV news coverage of the wars in Afghanistan, and reading all the newspaper articles about it for years.Why, in all this time, I have never seen or even read about a single afghan? It is plenty cold there, too--

What is the story here? May be Spaw will know, since he lives in Ohio, and every sofa from Cincinnati to Toledo, and over to Youngstown has one draped over the back--

Subject: RE: how to make a turban?
From: Gypsy
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 11:40 AM

InOBU, i READ it, the handsome mando player LOOKS at it!

Subject: RE: how to make a turban?
From: InOBU
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 04:25 PM

Gypsy... I am rather thick... on cold medicine, I am trying to figure out your post, Huh? Hey... I think I spell better when I am on cold meds... hmmmm.... Larry

Subject: RE: how to make a turban?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 04:39 PM

I always liked the North African kind of flowing rectangle (you can use a kitchen towel, they often do) with a double square (made out of wood or something) holding one end on your head. No wrapping, so probably technically not a turban, but certainly easy and after all, the Moors are the North Africans anyway. The idea is: Make a square that will fit onto your head snugly but not tightly. I think they use bamboo or other reedy wood, 2 bars per side, tied together with black (they often use electrical tape). Place towel on head so that front edge is just above eyebrows and the length goes down your back, place square on head to anchor. Fini.

Subject: RE: how to make a turban?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 04:41 PM

Tinker toys, no kidding, would probably make the best squares for the above system. Get 8 long straight pieces, tie 2 by 2 slightly offset, and you can use the round piece to make the corners if not both long pieces (per side) are expected to enter it (the round piece in each corner) but only the one sticking out a little further.

Subject: RE: how to make a turban?
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 03:55 AM

Hi Rollo,

reading your request I went up to the attic and searched for my turban, but alas - I didn't find it. So I have to try to remember the measures.
The other links sent to you concern female turbans which definitely don't fit a delegate from Harun's court. The turban is an oblong sheet of cloth, about 150 cm long and about 20 cm wide, with fringes at both ends. There are lots of ways to wind it around your head; I only know the way they do it in North Africa, where I learned it during my studies.
Put a short end over your head, so that it covers your neck. Before your forehead give it a twist and wind it around your head, giving it every time a twist at forehead and neck (so it will hold better). When finished, tuck the end into a fold; the fringes may hang out.
Since you are impersonating a delegate to Charlemagne, let put me one thing straight: The embassy bringing an elephant as gift to our unforgotten Emperor came from Harun ar-Rashid (Aaron the Righteous), thence Commander of the Faithful at Badhdad. So the people were not Moors, but pure Arabs. I doubt whether they wore turbans at this time; it seems to be a Turkish custom, and the Turks entered the Arab service some 300 years later. It would suit you better to wear a kafiye with an aqall.
The kafiye is a square sheet of cloth, some times with fringes, too. It's folded once in triangular shape, put over the head and fixed with the aqall, a double ring made from camel hairs. One end hangs down over your neck, the other two over your shoulders. There are different ways to tuck them to the aqall. Especially in dusty weather tey are wound around to cover mouth and nose. I think there are enough pictures of Arabs in American periodicals whre you can see them.
Note: Arafat's kafiye has a coloured pattern; the peasants over there are wearing them in red, green or black and white. The nobleman wore plain white (Hedjaz custom), since the nobles of the court came from the Hedjaz and were, as they called themselves, Arabs of pure stock.
A book about (Moroccan) materials with costumes is:
Beiträge zur Kenntnis der materiellen Kultur Nordwest-Marokkos : Wohnrat, Hausrat, Kostüm / Ernst Rackow. - Wiesbaden : Harrassowitz, 1958
Unfortunately it was stolen in the Oriental Library I was head of, so I can't make a copy of the pictures.
It is also in the Library of congress, LC Call No.: GT377.M6R3
I hope I could be of some help.

Wilfried

Subject: RE: how to make a turban?
From: InOBU
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 07:11 AM

WILFRIED! I think you may be a closit Englishman! A friend and I were discussing national steriotypes reguarding craft and nationality. Germany, we decided was the home of craft people who can give you messurements down to the micron ... where English do the same in historical context! Bravo!
Cheers, Larry
PS I am breathless! A great post...

Subject: RE: how to make a turban?
From: The Walrus at work
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 09:02 AM

Rollo,

Another alternative might be to try tying a turban/puggree around a tarbush or central cap (as, for instance used by the mamelukes), this is a cap, either truncated conical (like a fez) or cylindrical (akin to a tall and stiffened chittral cap) which was worn fairly centrally on the head with the pugree or turban wrapped or folded around the base (usually twisted front and rear to give raised sides) (The idea of the pugree still exists in the West in the wrappings about pith helmets).

I'm unsure of the dating of this practice in civilian headgear, but there are certainly Persian and Indian prints from the 12/13th C AD, shewing the pugree worn around helmets and the practice seems to have been somewhat older.

Regards

Walrus

Subject: RE: how to make a turban?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 07:06 PM

Some turbans seem to be made each time people put them on, by wrapping the cloths the right way, and others get made to last, so they can be taken off and put on like helmets. The latter approach might save (metaphorical)headaches.

Subject: RE: how to make a turban?
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 01 Mar 02 - 07:32 AM

Both the Walrussian and Harlovian comments are right. The turban around a tarboosh is worn by the ulema = the learned men in islamic religion and justice.
The custom to wear it around a helmet is as obvious as the use of the tin hat in modern times.
Turbans made to last are regularly the most complicatedly folded, so you spare a lot of work every time you put it on. There you need a cap, too.
PUGGRY, PUGGERIE s. Hind. pagrî, 'a turban'. The term being often used in colloquial for a scrf of cotton or silk wound round the hat in turban-form, to protect the head from the sun, both the thing and the name have of later years made their way to England, and may be seen in London shop windows.
Hobson-Jobson : a glossary of colloquial Anglö-Indian words and phrases ... / by Henry Yule and A.C. Burnell. - First publ. in 1886, 2. ed. 1903. - New ed. - Sittingbourne : Linguasia, 1994

Wilfried

Special signal for Larry: Thanks a lot! Wilfried

Subject: RE: how to make a turban?
From: InOBU
Date: 01 Mar 02 - 12:39 PM

Ah, Wilfried... I think your great great great grandpappy missed the longboat, I do think your an Englishman at heart! ;-) Cheers, Larry PS: Mary Courtney's band Morning Star is recording Engine 33, as a recitation, not a song, but when it is out I will send you a copy, keep safe and cool on the job, old friend. Cheers again, Larry

Subject: RE: how to make a turban?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 01 Mar 02 - 01:31 PM

Thread creep alert - You guys watching the news? The "detainees" in Cuba were on a hunger strike because the US military wouldn't let them use bedsheets for turbans but only towels??!? I mean, can't they use their real turbans? Were they all confiscated as dangerous or something? What happened to "respecting their religion" as Dubya keeps saying? - creep off

Subject: RE: how to make a turban?
From: InOBU
Date: 01 Mar 02 - 02:55 PM

Thanks for the extra turban news. I will take it to the Quaker Peace Committee this weekend. Thanks... and back to our schedualed programing... Larry

Subject: RE: how to make a turban?
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 02 Mar 02 - 09:48 AM

Hi Mrrrzy,

considering the imprisonment regulations in German institutes - might be the same elsewhere - shoestrings and belts are confiscated to prevent the prisoners from suicide by hanging. Since the detainees don't have their turbans any more - if ever they had in combat, pictures show the typical Afghan caps in most cases -, they shouldn't be allowed to use bedsheets for turbans, since bedsheets are long enough for hanging themselves. This isn't the case with towels - they are too short. Turbans aren't prescripted by religion - I know that imprisoned muslims often try to get some goodies they are not entitled to by referring to their religion. A towel is sufficient to cover the head either as protection against the sun or while performing the prescripted prayers.

Wilfried

Subject: RE: how to make a turban?
From: Gypsy
Date: 02 Mar 02 - 12:28 PM

Larry, look at your post subsequent to mine....good drugs, eh?