Pagans v. Hell's Angels AGAIN!

Subject: Pagans v. H.Angels AGAIN!
From: InOBU
Date: 23 Feb 02 - 10:08 PM

Jeeze, when I was a kid, Pagans and Hells Angels were killing each other in Tomkin's Square park, well they are at it again, must be their grand kids! shooting it out on Long Island, that deserves a ballad, doesn't it?
Cool out guys!
Larry

Subject: RE: Pagans v. H.Angels AGAIN!
From: Suffet
Date: 23 Feb 02 - 10:51 PM

Here are the first two lines, sung to the tune of "Puff, the Magic Dragon" by Lipton & Yarrow. Who would like to continue it?

Lorcan the uileann piper, grew up on Saint Marks,
And heard the bikers rumble all night in the parks...

Your move!

--- Steve

Subject: RE: Pagans v. H.Angels AGAIN!
From: InOBU
Date: 23 Feb 02 - 11:08 PM

He wished they wouldn't do it, it really wasn't good
To shoot their brother bikers, in any nieghborhood

Subject: RE: Pagans v. H.Angels AGAIN!
From: Clifton53
Date: 23 Feb 02 - 11:13 PM

Oh, shoot the rival bikers

Subject: RE: Pagans v. H.Angels AGAIN!
From: Suffet
Date: 23 Feb 02 - 11:17 PM

For no one's past redemption,
God in each one Light does keep,
So Lorcan prayed that they would see the Light,
And let him get some sleep.


Your turn.

Subject: RE: Pagans v. H.Angels AGAIN!
From: CapriUni
Date: 23 Feb 02 - 11:22 PM

I didn't realise there was a biker gang called the "Pagans" --

heh... I thought this was going to be one of those religious flame threads...

This is even more depressing... flame wars aren't really real.

Why do people hurt each other just for fun? What's the point?

Subject: RE: Pagans v. H.Angels AGAIN!
From: GUEST,gargoyle
Date: 24 Feb 02 - 12:28 AM

A winner in last year's "Sundance Film Festival" was the hilarous and riveting film, My Mother Meets the Devil's Disciples."

Although, it was filmed at the actual headquarters for the Hell's Angles in New York City, the director could not use the name in her film title because Hell's Angles is Copyrighted

You can view the 40 minute short, on-line through Atom-Films...atomfilms.com BTW....by the end of the film, you WILL understand why some folks "hurt people."

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: Pagans v. H.Angels AGAIN!
From: GUEST,Someone's eaten my cookie!
Date: 24 Feb 02 - 06:29 AM

Faust, the Chief Detective,
Lived near NYC
And thought that all the biker gangs
Lived in sweet harmony

But Sunday on Long Island
Would prove his idyll trashed
As a swap-meet of the Angels
Was by the Pagans crashed


It started off real peaceful,
Swapping parts and getting tats,
But then the violence started off
With handguns, knives, and bats

One dead, and Ten injured,
What do they do it for?
What a bloody waste of time
On a pointless little war.

Subject: RE: Pagans v. H.Angels AGAIN!
From: kendall
Date: 24 Feb 02 - 07:25 AM

Know why the Hells Angels wear leather? Because chiffon wrinkles.

Subject: RE: Pagans v. H.Angels AGAIN!
From: InOBU
Date: 24 Feb 02 - 08:19 AM

Thanks Garg. I'm off latter to Kim's video to look for it. I have to run to Friends Meeting, so I haven't a verse, other than to say, Steve's Quaker content really rings true, sure you aren't a closit Quaker Steve? Se ya, Larry

Subject: RE: Pagans v. H.Angels AGAIN!
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 24 Feb 02 - 08:47 AM

Heya Garg!

I looked at atom.com, but for the life of me, could not find the film. Could you give me some tips? Thanks!

CS, the not so internet savvy.

Subject: RE: Pagans v. H.Angels AGAIN!
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Feb 02 - 09:57 AM

Its only the collateral damage that sucks, and the fact that decent people are afraid to use the park. Other than that lets see... dead Pagan.. dead Hells Angel hmmm no great loss to society... applying the good riddance factor here ;-)

Subject: RE: Pagans v. H.Angels AGAIN!
From: Suffet
Date: 24 Feb 02 - 10:06 AM

Larry, I don't even believe in my own religion, so why should I take up someone else's? I do, however, understand some of the lingo.

--- Steve

Subject: RE: Pagans v. H.Angels AGAIN!
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 24 Feb 02 - 10:25 AM

Sounds like natural selection eh Guest?

Now if we could only guarantee that they were -only- killing each other...

.-)

Subject: RE: Pagans v. H.Angels AGAIN!
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 24 Feb 02 - 01:33 PM

I had a customer in my store the other day, husky clean-cut guy with a goatee, carrying a cell phone,and wearing a t-shirt that read Sonny Barger's Desert Cycle Shop. I asked about Sonny, since I knew that he had been prez of the Angels back in The Day, and this guy explained that yes, Sonny still was active as leader of the club, and that my customer was Membership Director. He told me that the new Denver Chapter was preparing to "patch out" 400 new members in the middle of March. My customer said that Sonny has a biography out now that is very interesting, and that it explains the "trumped-up charges" that landed him in prison in the 70s. He also confessed that Sonny had confided to him that he was a little sick of Harleys and had expressed an interest in buying a Honda Goldwing for comfortable touring with his wife, but suspected that the act would be akin to the Pope becoming a Methodist. I told him that I suspected the Hells Angel demographic had changed somewhat since their hay day in the late 60s, especially now that Harleys cost 14 to 30 k, and inquired as to whether the new inductees were composed of a disproportionate number of doctors, lawyers, and real estate agents. He replied that there weren't "too many".

At any rate, the official newly initiated Hells Angel Denver Chapter will make a rally-ride past my shop soon on a jaunt into the mountains. I suspect that the mountain bars had better lay in additional stocks of Perrier water and Dom Perignon and make sure that they have a working fax machine on premisis....the Angels are coming!

Subject: RE: Pagans v. H.Angels AGAIN!
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 24 Feb 02 - 03:26 PM

CapriUni said:

I didn't realise there was a biker gang called the "Pagans" --

heh... I thought this was going to be one of those religious flame threads...

This is even more depressing... flame wars aren't really real.

Why do people hurt each other just for fun? What's the point?

Probably fighting over drug-pushing territory. (In case you're not sure, I am not joking here.)

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Pagans v. H.Angels AGAIN!
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 24 Feb 02 - 03:36 PM

Hey, Hells' Angels ain't all bad!!!

LTS

Subject: RE: Pagans v. H.Angels AGAIN!
From: The Walrus
Date: 24 Feb 02 - 05:37 PM

Liz,

"...Hey, Hells' Angels ain't all bad!!! ..."

True, but regretably it's those that are who get the publicity.

Walrus

Subject: RE: Pagans v. H.Angels AGAIN!
From: InOBU
Date: 24 Feb 02 - 06:26 PM

The police chief REALLY IS named Faust! Amazing, if that isn't a call to write a serrious ballad, jeezelouieeze maybe a biker opera! Cheers, Larry

Subject: RE: Pagans v. H.Angels AGAIN!
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 24 Feb 02 - 07:21 PM

Hey kids! Get your genuine Hell's Angels merchandise here! They accept Visa, Mastercard, AND American Express! And please...no unauthorized use of the copyright logo or they will "hunt you down and hurt you".

Subject: RE: Pagans v. H.Angels AGAIN!
From: rangeroger
Date: 24 Feb 02 - 08:13 PM

Last Fall I was putting ligt fixtures in a building on East Sprague Avenue in Spokane,Washington. east Sparague is notorious for its hookers and drunks and is not a better part of town. As I drove to the job one morning, I saw a Harley parked outside a bar where ithad probably been left from the night before.

Thinking to myself that what fool would leave his Harley outside a bar in this neighborhood, I neared the "bar". It was the chapter house for the Hells Angels. Nobody was going to touch that bike.

rr

Subject: RE: Pagans v. H.Angels AGAIN!
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Feb 02 - 08:35 PM

in a few hundred years we have gone from a society where the basic profile of guys like the Hell's Angels was a survival factor, to a society where that disposition is a detriment......but the genes still turn them out!

If there was ever a argument for messing with DNA, those idiots (most of them)are it! I am so sick of arrogant, intimidating bullies who wrap up too much testosterone and a bad attitude in noise, smoke, silly costumes and tattoos, and call it 'brotherhood'.....

opinionated...me??....nawwwwwww

Subject: RE: Pagans v. H.Angels AGAIN!
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 24 Feb 02 - 11:11 PM

Hells Angels, Satans Slaves, Top Hatters, Gypsy Jokers, Bandidos, Chicago Outlaws, Jackpine Gypsys. Commonality is the world of outcast, hardcore, bikers. No, maybe not now, with bikes being respectable and pricey. But back in the 50's The serious rider put up with a lot from cagers and the cops and the old clubs made sense. I've been to Hells Angels parties (Big Brother and the Holding Company with Janis Joplin, entertaining) and on runs and rallys with them and never had a problem, not even close. I know nothing about the Pagans conflict with the Angels but I'm sure it is about "turf" also. I don't do drugs or alcolhol any more but I still ride and I still consider these outlaws as, if not brothers, then at least cousins.

CB

Subject: RE: Pagans v. H.Angels AGAIN!
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 24 Feb 02 - 11:17 PM

in a few hundred years we have gone from a society where the basic profile of guys like the Hell's Angels was a survival factor, to a society where that disposition is a detriment

And what does it say about us that so many non-Angel types are attracted to the trappings of violence and evil that surrounds this group? I suspect that membership no longer is predicated on the successful execution of a murder or rape, and that the Hells Angels has morphed into what you see on the web page I linked...a basic scheme to make money off the biker outlaw image. But the attraction for the average weekend Harley-owner to this image is what I find a fascinating phenomenon.

Subject: RE: Pagans v. H.Angels AGAIN!
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 24 Feb 02 - 11:19 PM

CB...what about the drug trafficking and racketeering convictions?

Subject: RE: Pagans v. H.Angels AGAIN!
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Feb 02 - 09:46 AM

"And what does it say about us that so many non-Angel types are attracted to the trappings of violence and evil that surrounds this group?"

It says that 'progress' in the social aspects of society is seriously threatened by the frenetic pace of a lot of life today, where excitement and adventure and thrills are awkward, shallow, and driven by advertising and fads and fueled by the tensions in a world where the chasm between the classes, which shrank for a couple hundred years, is growing again.

Subject: RE: Pagans v. H.Angels AGAIN!
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 25 Feb 02 - 10:29 AM

So far only one person has made an informed comment here. Coyote Breath has been around these guys. So have I. I first met the Pagans in 1971 - I wasn't impressed then and probably wouldn't be now. I went to Angel's Camp in 1973 but the BATF had just busted the Angels for weapons and drugs so the camp was canceled.

I think that most of us who started or joined outlaw bike clubs did so out of a need to belong. Viet Nam left a lot of us feeling a bit separated from society and bike clubs was a continuance of the brotherhood we had participated in during the war. The Hell's Angels started the same way. Many of the clubs did and gradually evolved into something else.

As far as killing each other - who knows - the Pagans have always been an "over the line" (in my opinion) club. They have for the most part been outlaws in the far realms of reality. 1% ers are not the norm - but they exist and they take their "code" seriously. A minor infraction can get one killed or left for the ER technicians to try to put back together.

I don't know about natural selection - but encounters with these guys is always serious. Always.

Steve

Subject: RE: Pagans v. H.Angels AGAIN!
From: GUEST,truckerdave
Date: 25 Feb 02 - 01:42 PM

Hey, guys. i've been there and i'm going to make a reluctant comment. Belonged to a HAMC affiliate club for a number of years. Didn't choose to be an Angel cause i didn't want to devote my life to it. That's what it takes. You're an Angel first, everything else second. They're the good guys here. From what i've seen of some other clubs i'd probably want to shoot some myself. I'm not going to start naming names but there are good people in every club and bad ones too. It's just that some clubs seem to attract and encourage membership by a disproportionate number of bad ones. Don't know any Pagans personally but i believe they fall under this category. Until you've been there and know what you're talking about, it's a good idea to keep your mouth shut while you still have some teeth in it.

Subject: RE: Pagans v. H.Angels AGAIN!
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 25 Feb 02 - 02:26 PM

Trucker Dave - Yep - At least when one is around these guys. This is a life style and not a "club" in the sense of weekly meetings and such. And the HA's are not the only ones like this. There are some other pretty good groups about. 1%ers are by and large still, well can be, good people.

I spent seven years as the Sgt. at Arms in one of the other groups and mean what I say about being cautious when around any of these guys.

Steve

Subject: RE: Pagans v. H.Angels AGAIN!
From: Wyrd Sister
Date: 25 Feb 02 - 02:43 PM

I thought this was going to be about Hastings Jack-in-the-Green! That's a May festival when loads of Morris teams & musicians share Hastings with a motorbike rally of some description.

Subject: RE: Pagans v. H.Angels AGAIN!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Feb 02 - 03:20 PM

One of these years the Crips and the Bloods will be fraternal organizations as well. If groups have staying power they become institutions, even if they're never "acceptible" to society at large.

When I was a kid I remember my mother's dread of running into the Hells Angels in the mountains during the summer. We'd head out on camping trips, but she always had the provision "If the Hells Angels are at the campground, we're not staying." I haven't recently heard of the Hells Angels being used by parents as Boogey Men to get their children to mind them, but that's not to say they don't. It all seemed rather exciting when I was a kid.

I think my kids and I would still probably leave the campground if they pulled in today. I might give the kids the explanation that they may be "okay," but we don't know, and to quote Aesop, "you're judged by the company you keep." If you hang out with perceived bad apples, then people are going to treat you like one.

Very simplistic, but we mothers do what we can to equip our children to live long happy lives. I understand my mother's way of thinking now.

SRS

Subject: RE: Pagans v. H.Angels AGAIN!
From: InOBU
Date: 25 Feb 02 - 03:28 PM

Well, my wife and I were passing the 3rd street HA house the other day, with it's tribute to lost firefighters... point of this is, I would not want to see these guys going back to the bad old days. Be nice to each other guys! Simplistic to say, but alot of folks put you in the same boat, well hell, if yer in the same boat, row together! Stay safe, Larry

Subject: RE: Pagans v. H.Angels AGAIN!
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 25 Feb 02 - 05:10 PM

"I thought this was going to be about Hastings Jack-in-the-Green! That's a May festival when loads of Morris teams & musicians share Hastings with a motorbike rally of some description."

It isn't a rally - just the good old British tradition of going to the seaside on a bank holiday. If you go at Easter, Hastings is wall to wall with scooters and parkas. May Day is reserved for the leather and chrome lot. Get a gang of HA's and a morris team in competition and it's a scream!! One year a drum corp I was in made more noise than a bank of Harleys revving up along the front, and it was all good natured and fun.....

I used to ride with my local Chapter of the HA's, the leader of which was a vicar's son..... go figure! And as for every group having a bad apple - heck, even church choirs have those. Just because I like to wear leather and silver jewellry, ride a motorbike and listen to Black Sabbath, doesn't mean I don't do cross stitch and like pussycats......

LTS (And I got my white wings.....)

Subject: RE: Pagans v. H.Angels AGAIN!
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Feb 02 - 06:38 PM

...not having been a member does not mean I am not capable of recognizing unacceptable public behavior...sorry folks, "needing to belong" can take better forms than that! When little kids have to be 'warned' about a group, there is a problem.

Subject: RE: Pagans v. H.Angels AGAIN!
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 26 Feb 02 - 12:04 AM

Oh geez - What is unacceptable public behavior? I'm lmao here - I think I have warned my kids about all kinds of unacceptable groups - crooked cops, lying judges, lawyers (now that's a group to be warned about), doctors - they kill more people than guns do I think - Bikers are just people. We are herd animals and pick those we are most similar to at the moment *BG* I figure my kids are smart enough to know the difference between crankster gangsters and people who love motorcycles!!

Ah Liz I knew you were alright the minute I met ya :-)

Too funny - - -

Steve


And wasn't it a Catholic priest they locked up for the rest of his life for molesting little boys?? And he is just one of many - should we be warned??

And I'm not picking on the Catholics any more than anyone else - Holy cow - InObu is right - let's get our oars in the same puddle - what say ye - eh??

Subject: RE: Pagans v. H.Angels AGAIN!
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 26 Feb 02 - 12:12 AM

I'm aware of two incidents involving biker gangs back in the early seventies in Louisville. I believe both groups involved were Outlaws MC. In the first incident, a drunken Outlaw was thrown out of a club called the Windmill. He and about 12 of his pals returned the next night and beat the hell out of everyone who happened to be in the bar. The other incident involved a fight that occurred at the Octoberfest, in which a drunken group of about two dozen Outlaws began a brawl in an open-air tent that left hundreds injured. In both cases, the Outlaws were armed with chains, tire-irons, and knives, and attacked mainly unarmed civilians who happened to have the bad luck to be in the same area with them. Maybe the Angels are different.

Funny thing, it took away a lot of the romantic concepts about biker clubs for me. They can keep the colors and the attitudes. I prefer the company of one or two friends and the open road.

Subject: RE: Pagans v. H.Angels AGAIN!
From: Amergin
Date: 26 Feb 02 - 12:13 AM

Yeah but Steve.....InObu's a lawyer....

Subject: RE: Pagans v. H.Angels AGAIN!
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 26 Feb 02 - 12:19 AM

Mea Culpea

I can find NO REFERENCE anywhere on the web to the 2000 entry My Mother Meets the Devil's Disciples and yet, I know the film was showcased by atomfilms.com

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

I will seek out and post the police reference file to the "wings" embelem denotations.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: Pagans v. H.Angels AGAIN!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Feb 02 - 12:43 AM

Gargoyle,

Visit this page and see if it is the movie you're looking for.

I like this film database. It's easy to search and has lots of links. The IMDb home page is here.

SRS

Subject: RE: Pagans v. H.Angels AGAIN!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Feb 02 - 12:56 AM

Steve,

Of course, you're right. There are lots of risky groups, and there are groups we think should be safe, and neither is what we think they are. We try to teach our children good judgement. Along the way we make some choices about how to illustrate what we teach. When I was a kid, the Hells Angels were still a dangerous group. When I was in my 20's I recall a local guy in a small town where I worked took offense at a biker group's pulling up and parking dress-right-dress outside his favorite bar, so he took his Daddy's dump truck and drove over the top of the bikes. Found out the hard way that even Hells Angels have rights when it comes to smashing private property.

SRS

Subject: RE: Pagans v. H.Angels AGAIN!
From: InOBU
Date: 26 Feb 02 - 02:30 AM

In my defense... I am an ex-lawyer, but my wife is still a lawyer, which I guess makes me a lawyer-lover? Cheers all, InOBU, Larry

Subject: RE: Pagans v. H.Angels AGAIN!
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 26 Feb 02 - 09:29 AM

Well I can see that my attempt to lighten the discussion have not met with great success. I've ridden with just about every club mentioned in this thread while riding with my own club. I wouldn't recomend any of them to anyone here as people to go out and party with. The Hell's Angels are still who they were, the Outlaws are who they are, the Pagans are who they are, Outlaw Bikers, and for the most part they are people - but they have their own agenda and don't take well to outsiders testing the boundaries. Trucker Dave is quite accurate in his description of the consequences for catching these folks on a bad day.

I meant to target no one - anyone who knows me can attest to that - just point out that what you see is not always what you get. I was a 1% for many years and know how dangerous I could be when I thought things weren't right. I treat all 1%ers as if they were me in the old days. It certainly keeps things on the up and up when I chance into these groups. And as far as the HA goes - I wouldn't party with them for any amount of money - the risks are too high for this old man.

But then I wouldn't party with my old group either.

My apologies to anyone who was offebded by anything I might have contributed to this thread. Besides Larry - I have nothing against lawyers - nothing against anyone I suppose - it's just an old joke *BG*. You all have a lovely day - this has been a great thread.

Steve

Subject: RE: Pagans v. H.Angels AGAIN!
From: GUEST,truckerdave
Date: 26 Feb 02 - 09:36 PM

My, my. Such an interesting discussion, although not musically related. Maybe we could link it somehow to the old traditional gospel song, "Oh come Angel band". One more thing. The little patches say M/C, not M/G. I never heard any club member refer to themselves or any other bikers as a "gang". That's a sensationalistic term used by the media and uninformed individuals. One sunday i remember we were all sitting around the clubhouse and i made some strawberry milkshakes that we were all drinking while we were playing spades. Now thats a view that the FBI would love to see, the inner workings of an "outlaw biker gang".

Subject: RE: Pagans v. H.Angels AGAIN!
From: InOBU
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 04:33 PM

Not a musical thread???? Read the begining again, Steve and I were composing a song about the event, with everyone's help, but we put the instruments down and began talking for awhile... back to the song, lads and lassies! PS not offense about Lawyer jokes, many of us ARE lawyer jokes! Larry

Subject: RE: Pagans v. H.Angels AGAIN!
From: Mrrzy
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 04:47 PM

I remember a Law & Orderepisode, where somebody commits murder by biker gang - gets mad at a guy, so she "lends" him her jacket from her biker gang and sends him to the gang bar, telling him They'll be so impressed with you. Of course, they kill him. Seemed entirely reasonable at the time...

Subject: RE: Pagans v. H.Angels AGAIN!
From: Ebbie
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 08:06 PM

I'll be the first to admit that I know nothing about these biker groups. I can say, however, that I don't like ANY of them that ride into town, their bloody shafted mufflers roaring, circle the loop and go out again. If they didn't mean to, didn't need to, be intimidating (and what kind of personality is it that needs that??) they would have working mufflers.

At the very least, these are people who are the 'grownup' version of blaring, earth-thumping stereos.

IMO

Ebbie

Subject: RE: Pagans v. H.Angels AGAIN!
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 11:30 PM

Oh Lord - gotta LOVE IT!!! Too freakin funny - You might ask my wife though Ebbie - she likes her bike loud -

Steve

Subject: RE: Pagans v. H.Angels AGAIN!
From: Ebbie
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 11:39 PM

Steve, notice I said 'people', not 'men'.

:)

Ebbie

Subject: RE: Pagans v. H.Angels AGAIN!
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 09:27 AM

True story Ebbie - But Jan and I don't ride with any group. We're partners and ride together. What I learned about loud pipes, if I may so gently come to their defense, is that when people didn't "see me" they certainly heard me. It saved me from a wreck or two.

Steve :-)

Subject: RE: Pagans v. H.Angels AGAIN!
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 12:18 PM

Since pipes point backward and sound trails a moving vehicle, I would think the noise-to-safety ratio would be fairly low.

LEJ (quiet rice-burner pilot)

Subject: RE: Pagans v. H.Angels AGAIN!
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 03:20 PM

LEJ - You never heard a Harley coming down the road towards you (He said smiling)? At 70 mph you may be right - but around town, where most of the wrecks occur, it makes a difference. And I've heard those quiet Asian bikes coming - but then I can feel a motorcycle coming down the road - Love them all!!

Steve

Subject: RE: Pagans v. H.Angels AGAIN!
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 03:27 PM

That's what I like to hear, Norton! What it's really all about is two wheels and the wind in your face.

Subject: RE: Pagans v. H.Angels AGAIN!
From: heric
Date: 04 Mar 02 - 11:01 AM

I feel so totally silly. When Larry first posted this, I hadn't heard of pagans either: I thought he was talking about Hell's Angel's fighting Wiccans! Some rather bizarre imagery was forming in my head.

Steve: Your prior comments about you biking/riding around Idaho with your wife had me picturing two thin tough yuppies on bicycles.

oh, and my biker story: Back in the early seventies, a friend of mine got paralyzed in a car accident. I took him to a Led Zeppelin concert back in the good old days of festival seating. Behind us, going in, were Hell's Angels and I did not like it at all. Then, the crowd started that pushing from the back thing, before the doors had opened. It was getting pretty damned scary, with people (and me) starting to get shoved right over the guy's wheelchair. Then, without a word from them, I noticed that these guys had formed a semi-circle around us and were pushing back against the crowd to protect the guy in the wheelchair. Just a silly little isolated incident, I know. But it's the way they did it so quietly that makes it stick in my mind.

Dan

Subject: RE: Pagans v. H.Angels AGAIN!
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 04 Mar 02 - 04:02 PM

Hey Norton...I don't make smart remarks around Hells Angels, AND I sure don't turn my back on Catholic Priests! Larry, I'm sure you weren't a TYPICAL lawyer, so i luv ya despite your shady past!

Rick

Subject: RE: Pagans v. H.Angels AGAIN!
From: Desdemona
Date: 04 Mar 02 - 04:41 PM

I'm just finishing up "Good Omens" by Terry Pratchett & Neil Gaiman....it puts all this sort of stuff in a very sensible perspective! ;~)

Subject: RE: Pagans v. H.Angels AGAIN!
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 05 Mar 02 - 03:28 PM

yeah there are associations with crime and then there are associations with punishment. As I mentioned I don't do drugs any more. I had a close friend get a long jolt for being part of a conspiracy to synthsize and distribute a controlled substance. He was a biker. He was pulled into the "plot" by the guy who turned out was a paid undercover INFORMANT who made a decent living by creating these conspiracies. Yes my friend used these drugs himself. The whole thing seemed like entrapment except for that. I don't get too exercised about drug and weapons convictions as a result.

Subject: RE: Pagans v. H.Angels AGAIN!
From: Ferret
Date: 05 Mar 02 - 09:32 PM

A.F.F.A is no joke i've been with 100s of 1% over the last 30 years with no problem just be awere be very awere.