BS: Guinness Pulls a Fast One?

Subject: Coming Soon: Drive-Through Stout?
From: The Pooka
Date: 24 Feb 02 - 12:44 PM

Allll righty then: come-all-ye stout-hearted lasses & yez frothy-headed lads, wot do we think about THIS one? From The Irish Times, February 24 2002.

Stout defenders call time on a proposal for the instant pint
By Frank McNally

Attempts by Guinness to pull a fast one on its customers have been greeted with a mixture of scepticism and hostility from stout defenders.

After 243 years of promoting patience, the pace of life is catching up with the famous brewery, which has revealed that, having once advertised its pints with "30 seconds of darkness" it is now testing a technology for pouring them in half that time.

The quick pint experiment is a response to shrinking consumption, which yesterday saw Guinness Diageo announce a 4 per cent drop in Irish sales.

Company chief executive Mr Paul Walsh has admitted that the traditional two-minute pouring time is "not relevant to our consumers today".

And the new technique would all-but eliminate it, with bar staff using an "ultrasonic impulse" to turn a flat pint into stout as we know it, in 15 seconds. But rival brewers Beamish and Crawford led the chorus of criticism. In a statement that stopped just short of demanding a constitutional referendum to protect the pint, the company called the idea "absolutely ludicrous," accused Guinness of a "schizophrenic" approach to promotion, and condemned what it called the "lagerisation" of stout. "Their great brewers of the past would turn in their graves," the statement added.Dublin publicans too were sceptical. At The Clock in Thomas Street, alarm bells were ringing at the prospect of the instant pint.

Proprietor Brendan Dunne said he himself might give up Guinness - brewed yards away at St James's Gate - if the black day came to pass. "But I'd be a bit of a traditionalist".

Meanwhile, in Mulligans of Poolbeg Street, where staff were hard pressed to meet the Friday evening demand, one barman was equally appalled. "God, no. I wouldn't agree with that. It's perfect as it is." A Guinness spokesman said the speed pint had been "tested in different places" but there were no plans yet to introduce it. "It's still only a concept." Fundamentalist stout drinkers will hope it goes the way of another concept, Guinness Light. Only quicker.

Subject: RE: BS: Guinness Pulls a Fast One?
From: michaelr
Date: 24 Feb 02 - 01:14 PM

Is nothing sacred!?!??

Subject: RE: BS: Guinness Pulls a Fast One?
From: catspaw49
Date: 24 Feb 02 - 01:19 PM

Geeziz.........It's fockin' beer fer gawdsake.......Ain't brain surgery...it's beer........ain't a "Fountain of Eternal Youth"......it's a freakin' beverage!!!!

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Guinness Pulls a Fast One?
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 24 Feb 02 - 01:23 PM

'Spaw,

No, it's Guinness. It shouldn't be messed with. I can wait a while for the next one, thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: Guinness Pulls a Fast One?
From: Big Mick
Date: 24 Feb 02 - 01:28 PM

Spaw............I will forgive you that because you are one of the great unwashed.......... but comparing a lovely, luscious, creamy pint of Guinness to "fockin' beer" is like comparing the Cutty Sark to a daysailer, it's like comparin' Grit Laskin's guitars to the Cowboy Bob painted guitars.......It's like saying that Rick Fielding and Big Mick are both guitar players......just ain't right.

Notice to my friends in Ireland: If you need me to start the fundraising in the Hibernian Halls to fight this traitorous act, just let me know....LOL.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Guinness Pulls a Fast One?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 24 Feb 02 - 01:41 PM

I am on Spaw's side here.

Furthermore, I would bet any money that Guinness will get the technology down so that none of you real ale experts would be able to tell the difference in a blindfold test.

Murray (who doesn't drink any more so couldn't really care less)

Subject: RE: BS: Guinness Pulls a Fast One?
From: heric
Date: 24 Feb 02 - 01:47 PM

Mr. 'spaw, this is by far the most wrong-headed post you have ever written, and it's lucky you have goodwill banked up. It's possible to get a decent Guinness in the states, but it's not easy. You may not have had the experience. It really is not "a beverage." It is much, much more.

Dan

Subject: RE: BS: Guinness Pulls a Fast One?
From: heric
Date: 24 Feb 02 - 01:53 PM

Take the Pledge:

We believe in one drink, Guinness the almighty
Makers of cans and bottles
Of all that is drunk and un-drunk
We believe in one brewer, Arthur
The only son of Guinness
Eternally begotten of the hops
Hops from hops, barley from barley
True drink from true drink
Begotten not made
Of one distillery of the Father
Through it all things were made
For us men and our salvation
It comes down from St. James Gate
By the power of the market he became incarnate
And was made a rich man
For our sake we are crucified under Pontious Prices
Bad pints, suffer hagovers and A.A. meetings
On the next day we rise again in accordance
With our scruples and ascend into oblivion
We come again to judge the living and the dead
We believe in one alcoholic beverage
Brewed and bottled under one licence
We acknowledge one Arthur, son of the almighty pint
Conceived in heaven and sold on earth
Blessed is the one drink through one father and many sons
Sold under one label and distributed throughout the world
We look for the resurrection of new drinks
And a cure for hangovers.
Amen

(Author Unknown.)

Subject: RE: BS: Guinness Pulls a Fast One?
From: Morticia
Date: 24 Feb 02 - 01:55 PM

That waiting time while the pint is pulled is sacred,it is the time where we commune with the Gods, our souls and occasionally our companions, a time for reflection and gratitude and the contemplation of the evening to come.I have a theory that the reason the Irish are such a philosophical and patient nation is all down to the pouring time of a REAL guiness.There'll be tears before bedtime should this come to pass.

Subject: RE: BS: Guinness Pulls a Fast One?
From: The Pooka
Date: 24 Feb 02 - 01:58 PM

LOL hee hee woo woo / ahem. Very good. My work here is done. Mr Spaw sir, it's not just the fockin' beer. It's the fookin' *trad* of the thing, don'tcha see. But as to Fountain of Eternal Youth, you're right. That's not Guinness. It's Murphy's.

Subject: RE: BS: Guinness Pulls a Fast One?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Feb 02 - 02:00 PM

People shouldn't come down on 'spaw for this. I had some American beer once. I wouldn't quarrel with the adjective he attaches to the stuff.

But if these lads who seem to have hijacked St James's have their way, Guinness will no doubt catch up pretty soon.

And I imagine that won't do any harm at all to the sale of Murphy's.

Subject: RE: BS: Guinness Pulls a Fast One?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Feb 02 - 02:03 PM

Now, this is the correct Murphy's link

Subject: RE: BS: Guinness Pulls a Fast One?
From: The Pooka
Date: 24 Feb 02 - 02:39 PM

All Right, Master McGrath!!! Yer a good man by God. Now do I hear anyone fer th' Beamish? Up Cork! (hm..that one'll draw a few pint-sized pokes, ol' pook...up where?...:)

Subject: RE: BS: Guinness Pulls a Fast One?
From: Amergin
Date: 24 Feb 02 - 03:16 PM

jesus christ....this is an outrage....I always figured the wait was part of the whole mystique of Guinness....and that it made me appreciate this nectar of the gods more.....

Spaw you are lucky I don't just march on over there and bust your kneecaps for that remark!

Subject: RE: BS: Guinness Pulls a Fast One?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Feb 02 - 03:42 PM

Of course one thing with the wait is you can have a drink while you are waiting.

Guinness seem to be into giving with one hand whule they are taking with the other. After all these ads trhey've been having lately which have been evidently trying tio get away from the Irish connection, now they've suddenly come out with a new one with a hurling theme. (At least it was new to me when I saw it today.) Mud and blood and monsters and heroic combat. straight out of the Tain, but in the present time. Classic stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: Guinness Pulls a Fast One?
From: AR282
Date: 24 Feb 02 - 03:52 PM

I love stout and Guiness is pretty good but I prefer Murphy's which is all I drank while I was in Ireland. Hard to find Murphy's around here.

Guinness also makes a great lager but they put it in those tiny rip-off bottles.

But all American beer blows anyway. Even foreign beers made for import to America.

Reminds me of that old Monty Python Aussie sketch: "Drinkin American beer's a bit like makin love in a canoe; it's fuckin close to water."

Subject: RE: BS: Guinness Pulls a Fast One?
From: DonMeixner
Date: 24 Feb 02 - 04:52 PM

What can be next? Stout Lite?

Don

Subject: RE: BS: Guinness Pulls a Fast One?
From: Mark Clark
Date: 24 Feb 02 - 05:18 PM

Spaw, Big Mick says you don't wash and I guess he must know, but you surely have no appreciation for one of life's great treats not to mention one of Ireland's great traditions.

Perhaps you are only familiar with the Canadian product bottled under license by LaBatt's. That product was, indeed, a great disappointment. Trust me and Mick and Steve and Dan and Morticia and McGrath and Amergin... Guinness is a sacred trust and dassn't be tampered with.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Guinness Pulls a Fast One?
From: Mickey191
Date: 24 Feb 02 - 05:20 PM

Some Guiness was spilled on the barroom floor, when the pub was shut for the night. When out of his hole crept a wee brown mouse, and sat in the pale moonlight. He lapped up the frothy brew from the floor, then back on his haunches he sat. And all night long, you could hear him roar, "Bring on the goddamn cat."

It'll still have the same God Awful taste,Won"t it? Slainte

Subject: RE: BS: Guinness Pulls a Fast One?
From: Gareth
Date: 24 Feb 02 - 06:55 PM

Sure, it reminds me of the story of two young Dubliners coming to London to seek thier fortunes in the building trade.

As was there wont they went to see Father O'Malley before taking the ferry. Amoungst the advice he gave them was that if you want a good pint in London be sure to drink in a Pub which serves "Fullers" Beers.

Off they went, and arrived at Euston Station with a raging thirst. The first pub thay went two they asked the barman " Do you serve Fullers ?", "NO !".

Many Pubs later, and an even more raging thirst, they found a little backstreet pub, with a sign above the door saying "Fuller, Smith & Turner - Brewers of fine traditional ales" - " Do you serve Fullers here ?", "Of course". says the Landlord, " Thats why we put the sign up", "Thank be to God" says one of the Dubliners, " Two Pints of Guiness please !"

Gareth (In CAMRA mode)

Subject: RE: BS: Guinness Pulls a Fast One?
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Feb 02 - 07:53 PM

well, Guiness is fine stuff, though I've never had the pleasure of having it pulled in a traditional Irish pub(and thus, I'm told, have missed half the pleasure)...but, American beers, while 20 years ago were JUSTLY the object of ridicule but those who appreciate good zymurgy, have now begun to see the light!

starting with the New Albion brewery in 1976, there are MANY fine small and mid-sized breweries putting out a wide variet of good beers, ales , stouts...etc. No, nothing 'quite' like Guiness, but there doesn't need to be another Guiness! I can buy locally many dark OR light beers of distinction, and will continue to do so, with Guiness as one....and hope I get to try it RIGHT before I die. (well, the stuff Mick brought to the Getaway last year was pretty close, though)

Subject: RE: BS: Guinness Pulls a Fast One?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 24 Feb 02 - 09:20 PM

Guinness has pulled a fast one plenty of times in the past. I recall a wee scandal back in the 1980s, when it was revealed that, each summer, they reduced the strength of their stout (watered it down) while nobody was likely to notice; by the winter, everyone was used to the weaker version, so they could water it still further the following summer. They had to stop doing that when the law was changed to oblige brewers to tell their customers what the strength of their beer was. They have also made massive donations to the Conservative party in the UK over the years (as do most brewers, regrettably) in order to ensure special treatment. The Guinness/Tennant family has also been directly responsible for some pretty disgraceful things, perhaps most notably the deliberate marginalisation of the native population of Mustique, but that's another story. I like the beer, but I despise the company that makes it, and the people who own that company. What can you do, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Guinness Pulls a Fast One?
From: paddymac
Date: 25 Feb 02 - 12:30 AM

Geez, Malcolm. I, for one, would appreciate some expansion on your post above. I know a little of Arthur's less-than-complimentery view of the Irish, and that, in recent years Guinness has been owned by a British holding company, but never heard the 'watering down" tale before.

Subject: RE: BS: Guinness Pulls a Fast One?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 25 Feb 02 - 12:47 AM

Reported in the Guardian and other newspapers at the time, but I'm afraid I can't give dates; a good 15 years ago, at any rate. It will have been a little before UK law was changed to oblige brewers to display the original gravity of their beers on labels and so on. It wasn't to do with the nationality of the company or its owners (and I don't know if they ran the same scam in Ireland, though I'd be surprised if they didn't); just the normal greed of all major brewers.

Subject: RE: BS: Guinness Pulls a Fast One?
From: The Pooka
Date: 25 Feb 02 - 12:56 AM

Malcolm, yeah, at least some (all??) of the big US brewers--whose product is so perilously close to water as noted by AR 282 above, hee hee--have been big backers of our own Tories here. Coors, oy! AR, I get Murphy's in the "pub draught" cans with the little rattlers in 'em--I like it well enough too--but agree finding it really on draught ain't so easy. Mister McG of H, is the Guinness empire worried about Homeland Security, so to speak? Market share slipping on Erin's green shore, maybe? Oh so it's play down the new world order & put the Black in Tain, is it? "Tyrants, hypocrites, liars."

*What about Beamish*? Actually brewed in Rebel Cork. It's an Acquired Taste. I think I'm Acquiring it.

Subject: RE: BS: Guinness Pulls a Fast One?
From: The Pooka
Date: 25 Feb 02 - 01:07 AM

Meant to put this in above but goofed. Beamish Stout website, pretty good. Hope this works now -

Click here

Subject: RE: BS: Guinness Pulls a Fast One?
From: Rolfyboy6
Date: 25 Feb 02 - 01:20 AM

Spaw, for a friend of mine I can only say I'm shocked. Shocked. Even here in California, home of everything labelled "lite", Guinness is regarded as sacred and has led the way away from the pig swill of American beer. The many small breweries that have sprung up point to the example of Guinness and honor it's name be hardly trying to make anything to compete with it ('course they can't). Mend your ways. Hoist one, it's good for you.

Subject: RE: BS: Guinness Pulls a Fast One?
From: michaelr
Date: 25 Feb 02 - 01:30 AM

"When I looked up at the Guinness ad I could never figure out
How yer man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stout."

- Christy Moore

...well I guess it's because it was watered down!

Michael

Subject: RE: BS: Guinness Pulls a Fast One?
From: artbrooks
Date: 25 Feb 02 - 09:21 AM

Well, I'm not at all sure that changing the waiting time is necessary. After all, don't you usually wait 10 minutes or more for a beer in any good bar? A place that has so few customers that you can be served instantly is probably pretty booring,

Anyway, Guiness is ok if you can't get a good stout.

Subject: RE: BS: Guinness Pulls a Fast One?
From: SINSULL
Date: 25 Feb 02 - 10:43 AM

I had my first tap drawn Guinness on July 19, 2000. When it arrived at the table, I passed it to my niece thinking that she had ordered a shake. The rest of the crowd laughed at my innocence and worried about my orgasmic revelry upon tasting this incredible brew.
Spaw...for once I can not fawn or attaboy you. You are wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Guinness Pulls a Fast One?
From: GUEST,Roger O'Keeffe
Date: 25 Feb 02 - 12:44 PM

The slogan for "Guinness Light" was "They said it couldn't be done", to which the Dub wags added the prophetic tag " - and they were right!"

Ditto for the latest abomination from the wonderful people at Diageo (and how many millions did they pay some jerk in a fancy shirt to come up with a name like that?).

Subject: RE: BS: Guinness Pulls a Fast One?
From: GUEST,JohnB
Date: 25 Feb 02 - 12:47 PM

Spaw, I thought shite normally came out of your arse. This time it's your mouth (well your fingers anyway). You may be well aversed in instrument building, music, all things mudcat etc etc etc. You however obviously know Dick All about lifes most important topic, Beer. You really have gone TOO far this time. Deeply Dissapointed, JohnB.

Subject: RE: BS: Guinness Pulls a Fast One?
From: MMario
Date: 25 Feb 02 - 12:58 PM

'spaw - I'm truly shocked - for the very first time you have actually had me staring at one of your posts with horror.

Subject: RE: BS: Guinness Pulls a Fast One?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 25 Feb 02 - 12:58 PM

Besides, Spaw, think of the deleterious effect the instant-draw will have on the Tavern banter.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Guinness Pulls a Fast One?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 25 Feb 02 - 01:14 PM

I have never read so much bollocks on a Mudcat thread before.

Y'all do know, don't you, that many unscrupulous publicans in the British Isles use the Guinness keg as a waste dispenser for their slops ? And please don't tell me they don't, I have witnessed it being done in one of Edinburgh's most revered real ale pubs.

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Guinness Pulls a Fast One?
From: GUEST,Garydon986
Date: 25 Feb 02 - 01:20 PM

Pooka you are obviously a fine man ans a scholar as well.

Beemish is a great brew where as Guiness has far too much bit. Beemish as anacquired taste I don't know as I took to it right away.

Guiness could learn a thing or three from american Coke. See what happened to them when they attempted new Coke and Original Coke. A major marketing OOOOPS

Gary®

Subject: RE: BS: Guinness Pulls a Fast One?
From: catspaw49
Date: 25 Feb 02 - 03:29 PM

Folks, I gotta' say that the satisfaction from this has been greater htan ANYTHING I ever drank!!! Y'all know how long I've been waitin' for another Guinness thread to come along just to do this? And even better yet....I got on right at the start for max trolling benefit!!!

Hey....if the assholes can cause havoc, then we can occasionally get some enjoyment from it ourselves. I figured I'd have to maybe throw in some crap about the "freshness of Budweiser" or something but it sure as hell wasn't necessary!

BTW, some of you write with more passion on this subject than you do on any other!!! Thank you for making this one of my most enjoyable threads. I was kinda' hoping someone would offer to send me some to prove their point, but alas............oh well...............

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Guinness Pulls a Fast One?
From: Gareth
Date: 25 Feb 02 - 07:00 PM

Naving checked with the Landlord of the "Olde Royal Oak" in Ystrad Mynach tonite, he confirms that the OG of drauaght Guiness has been reduced from 4.4 to 4.1 - a reduction of circa 8%.

Needless to say the price did not go down.

Gareth

Oh! I am the man, the very fat man
That waters the workers beer

Subject: RE: BS: Guinness Pulls a Fast One?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 25 Feb 02 - 08:27 PM

I preferred Beamish to Guiness and Murphy's (I like that the least - Is that Whitbread now?), I think because of that "more acquired taste" - to me, it had far more character but... maybe it's just me but I don't think the drink has been the same since Scottish Courage got involved and the pub I used to like it in went to "Beamish Red" (Caffreys like bitter) and "Beamish Black" - it really seemed to lose the old "bite".

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: Guinness Pulls a Fast One?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 25 Feb 02 - 08:32 PM

Sorry to continue my hijacking, but I have just found this at the Scottish & Newcastle website:

Beamish Black Beamish, brewers of the only Irish stout brewed exclusively in Ireland, changed the taste, name and look of its 'black stuff' in August 1997, with the launch of Beamish Black. The new product follows extensive research which showed that consumers were looking for a creamier, less bitter aftertaste, and consequently the new product is more in tune with 90s drinkers - smoother, easier to drink and representing today's modern Ireland.

So marketing did ruin another product...

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: Guinness Pulls a Fast One?
From: tremodt
Date: 25 Feb 02 - 09:40 PM

Guinnes, Gaelic for Genius!

What is the definitition of and Irishman

It is a complicated peice of machinery that changes Guinness in to Urine

Guinness is goodnes

Lay it alone

ro1sin

Subject: RE: BS: Guinness Pulls a Fast One?
From: The Pooka
Date: 25 Feb 02 - 10:14 PM

Guest Garydon, thankee. Obviously a man of great learning yerself, too. But Jon Freeman re Scottishcouragebeamish, dam'! Betrayed! Again!! O so it's *more* Quislings who sold out, izzit? (Guzzlings??) Romantic Ireland's dead and gone....Yeah, Murphy's is Whitebread UK now; imported by Heineken USA, White Plains NY, sez the can. Fookin' global economy. But I still like the stuff, Gawd fergive me. (And beggin' YER pardon too.)

Revered Catspaw sir, you are the very foxy Mr. Cunningleigh-Sleigh, Himself. Oh how the ol' Topwater plug gets 'em every time! SPLASH!BLAM! *what* a take! Passionate! Homeric!! hee hee /We'll all chip in & send you a case, uhh, say Thursday next. Pub Draught cans with the little plastic rattles, can't tell it from the real thing outta the Clan MacLeod's Slop-kegs of Edinburgh. :)

Subject: RE: BS: Guinness Pulls a Fast One?
From: John J at home
Date: 26 Feb 02 - 03:26 AM

I can't comment on the quality of Guiness, although it must certainly have that magic 'something', it's such a popular drink. I'm afraid I find the taste unpleasant.

My preference is for cask conditioned beers.

I gather that Guiness is elsewhere described as 'pasteurized'. Isn't that the same as 'keg'?. (That most despised of so-called beers that has been filtered and heat treated to prolong it's life, and therefore increase the profitability of the sale of the product.)

Pardon my ignorance if I'm wrong, this is just my understanding of the situation. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Guinness Pulls a Fast One?
From: GUEST,Nigel Parsons
Date: 26 Feb 02 - 07:45 AM

Murray, using the Guinness cask for slops is an interesting thought, but most of our supply in Wales is keg beer and forcing the slops in is difficult, however the Barrels for Brains Dark (mild) serve a similar function.

Subject: RE: BS: Guinness Pulls a Fast One?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Feb 02 - 06:27 PM

Budweiser? Well as I've said before, it's a magnifucent drink. The real stuff that is, from the Czech Republic, not the vile stuff from America that debauched the name. "Budweiser Budvar" they call the real one now it to avoid confusion.

"A place that has so few customers that you can be served instantly is probably pretty boring" - no, I can't agree with you there, art. The best beer you often find in the quietest pubs, when there's a landlord that knows how to look after the beer. All good pubs have quiet times as well as lively ones, and quiet doesn't mean boring.