Lyr ADD: London's Ordinary

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: London's Ordinary
From: bobm
Date: 16 Jul 23 - 09:53 AM

Anybody still here 10 years on? For my tuppence ha'penny worth I'd suggest that 'froe' is simply that - the froe. The tool used still to rive sheets of wood.

Weatherboard had been in use in the UK for a long time but around the 16th and 17th centuries and into the 18th we were using a lot of migrant labour from the Low Countries. In the East and South-east there are plenty of examples of Flemish building styles (not to mention the role of their countrymen in the draining of the fens).

So it seems to me that the Froe might well be associated with the Dutchman.

And the more modern term 'clapboard' itself comes from the Dutch 'klappen', to split.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: London's Ordinary
From: Jack Campin
Date: 08 Jan 13 - 12:41 PM

"To a pleasant new tune" doesn't give you much to go on. No reference to any of the alternate titles in Simpson.

Why not just use "The Yellow Rose of Texas"?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: London's Ordinary
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 30 Nov 10 - 09:19 AM

"The Dutchmen will go to the Froe"

There are several old books viewable at Google Books that contain these lyrics, for example—

The Roxburghe ballads, Volume 2 edited by Charles Hindley (London: Reeves and Turner, 1874), page 307+.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: London's Ordinary
From: GUEST,schlimmerkerl
Date: 27 Nov 10 - 12:18 PM

The leadsheet music ("dots") to this song is in "The British Broadside Ballad and its Music", Simpson, and "One Thousand English Country Dance Tunes" (p.13), Raven, Ed. The tunes are identical, though in different keys.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: London's Ordinary
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Aug 08 - 01:32 PM

It's about all the pubs in London and the different trades that frequented them.

Not really. More a case of wordplay on the names, with no actual connection. Though there are cases where pubs do have an association with particular trades or activities, and this is reflected in names. The Wig and Pen for lawyers and journalists in Fleet Street, or Bricklayers' Arms in various places.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: London's Ordinary
From: GUEST,Dan
Date: 03 Aug 08 - 04:06 AM

"Throw" = "Vrouw" Dutch word for "wife"".

"Ploughman" & "Clowns". Clown had a previous meaning as "a peasant"

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: London's Ordinary
From: masato sakurai
Date: 24 Oct 06 - 12:48 AM

Another edition of "Londons Ordinairie" is in the Pepys collection, which is at Early Modern Center: English Ballad Archive, 1500-1800.

Londons Ordinairie,/ OR/ Euery Man in his humour

JPEG address: Pepys1/L/Pepys_crop_1_0192-0193_L.jpg
Date Published: c. 1630 (STC)
Part: 1
Tune: To a pleasant new tune.
Music:
First Lines: THrough the Royall Exchange as I walked,/ where Gallants in Sattin did shine:
Refrain:
Page: 1/2 sheet folio, originally left part, 274 x 155
Condition: torn bottom left corner, creased, uneven inking
Ornament: cast fleurons

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: London's Ordinary
From: Snuffy
Date: 19 Jan 03 - 06:51 PM

Could be the Trow - a type of sailing barge, I believe, but I associate it more with the Severn and South Wales

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: London's Ordinary
From: delphinium
Date: 19 Jan 03 - 01:08 PM

There are more verses that come after those posted by Masato above. Here they are, transcribed (by me) from the Bodleian ballads site mentioned above and from listening to the Tale of Ale. I am posting them now because I'm following the Tale of Ale Project (but I can't make out where the Dutchmen go - can someone correct this?)

The hosiers will dine at the Leg,
The drapers at the sign of the Brush,
The fletchers to Robin Hood will go,
And the spendthrift to Beggar's Bush.

The pewterers to the Quart Pot,
The coopers will dine at the Hoop,
The cobblers to the Last will go,
And the bargemen to the Scoop.

The carpenters will dine at the Axe,
The colliers will dine at the Sack,
Your fruiterer he to the Cherry Tree,
Good fellows no liquor will lack.

The goldsmiths to the Three Cups,
Their money they count as dross,
Your puritan to the Pewter Can,
And your papists to the Cross.

The weavers will dine at the Shuttle,
The Glover will unto the Glove,
The maidens all to the Maidenhead,
And true lovers unto the dove.

The saddlers will dine at the Saddle,
The painters to the Green Dragon,
The Dutchman will go to the sign of the [Throw?]
Where each man may drink his flagon.

The chandlers will dine at the Scales,
The salters at the sign of the Bag,
The porters take pain at the Labour-in-Vain,
And the horse courser to the White Nag.

Thus every man in his humour,
From north unto the south,
But he that hath no money in his purse,
May dine at the sign of the Mouth.

The swaggerers will dine at the Fencers,
But those that have lost their wits,
With Bedlam Tom let there be their home,
And the Drum the drummers best fit.

The cheater will dine at the Chequer,
The pickpocket at a blind ale house
Till taken and tried up Holbourn they ride,
And make their end at the gallows.

Notes:

In the verses posted previously, "roars" should be "roarers".
E. Cobham Brewer 1810–1897 & Dictionary of Phrase and Fable 1898:
Roaring Boys or Roarers: The riotous blades of Ben Jonson's time, whose delight it was to annoy quiet folk. At one time their pranks in London were carried to an alarming extent.

The Cambridge History of English and American Literature in 18 Volumes (1907–21). Volume V. The Drama to 1642, Part One. XIV. Some Political and Social Aspects of the Later Elizabethan and Earlier Stewart Period. § 24. Growth of London and its causes page 32? Note 97.
Nothing can be said here of other favourite centres of intellectual and social intercourse, among which the taverns—to be distinguished carefully from lesser and more evanescent places of entertainment—did duty for the clubs of later London life. T[homas]. Heywood gives a short list of them in one of the songs inserted in The Rape of Lucrece [ca. 1607, publ. 1609], in another of which the cries of London are reproduced. By 1633, the number of these taverns was reckoned at 211. Cf. Sandys, W., Festive Songs, etc., u.s. (introduction), and see Vatke, T., "Wirthshäuser und Wirthshausleben" in Culturbilder aus Alt-England.
As to "ordinaries" (the fashionable tables d'hôte of the day), see the amusing tract The Meeting of Gallants at an Ordinarie, or The Walkes in Powles, 1604 (Percy Soc. Publ., 1845, vol. V). To the main walk of the great gothic church of St. Paul's, a club open to all—even to those who came only to dine with duke Humphrey—there are frequent allusions in our dramatists. (Bobadill was a "Paul's man," and Falstaff "bought Bardolph in Paul's." See, also, L. Barry's Ram-Alley, act IV, sc. 1, and Mayne's City-Match, act III, sc. 3.) These and other features of London life are described in numerous works of easy access; for a graphic picture of Elizabethan London, drawn with the author's usual felicity of touch, the reader may be referred to the section "Le Pays Anglais" in vol. II of Jusserand's Histoire Littéraire du Peuple Anglais.

From Project Gutenberg:
re Every Man in His Humour by Ben Jonson (1601?) but performed 1599?
The term "humour," then applied to any oddity of manner, is used to designate the prevailing traits of a number of distinctly defined characters, illustrative of London manners. The braggart soldier, the clever servant, the avaricious and jealous husband, the gay young men and even the gulls, are all, obviously, suggested by the common types in Plautus...

Questions:

1. "ploughmen unto the Clown" ? – relationship between ploughmen and clowns/fools, esp. re Jan. 6 in traditional English rites (e.g. straw Bear)?

2. "The Dutchman will go to the sign of the [Throw?]" – can't make this out from the song or ballad sheet.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Londons Ordinary
From: MMario
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 08:18 AM

Hey SPOT! You still haven't sent me the tune!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Londons Ordinary
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 07:03 PM

Mrrzy - think Martha Grimes! The surprise is, she is American.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Londons Ordinary
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Feb 02 - 02:01 PM

"London's Ordinary" is a broadside ballad expansion of a song in Thomas Heywood's 'The Rape of Lucrece', Act II, Scene V.-WBO

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Londons Ordinary
From: Mrrzy
Date: 26 Feb 02 - 12:33 PM

Neat. There is a mystery author whose name escapes me right now whose book titles are all the names of real English pubs - Help the Poor Struggler is the only one I remember right now, but they're all very interesting. Main detective = Inspetor Jury... I'll come up with her name eventually - would like to see some of those put to song!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Londons Ordinary
From: MMario
Date: 26 Feb 02 - 12:14 PM

ouch! Just found it. I think I blocked some of that out of my mind after getting to know spot better - so I'm NOT going to link to it.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Londons Ordinary
From: MMario
Date: 26 Feb 02 - 12:04 PM

I still have the notes you sent me somewhere as well - but you promised me the dots - which I don't have...

was looking for that thread - but I haven't found it yet.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Londons Ordinary
From: Dave Wynn
Date: 26 Feb 02 - 11:59 AM

One verse often used as the last verse is missing and I know it as:-

Thus every man in his humour From the north down to the south But he that has no money in his purse Shall dine at the sign of the mouse.

(a reference to "poor as a church mouse" I believe)

I think I have a longer version and will look when I get on my home PC. I did some research on this song and hoped one day to put it on the DT but didn't persue it.

Spot.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Londons Ordinary
From: greg stephens
Date: 26 Feb 02 - 11:40 AM

The reference to the Welsh and goats in the song is very interesting. There seems to have been a signicant cultural shift since then.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Londons Ordinary
From: masato sakurai
Date: 26 Feb 02 - 10:03 AM

The above is from Broadside Ballad Index

~Masato

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Londons Ordinary
From: masato sakurai
Date: 26 Feb 02 - 10:00 AM

Through the Royall Exchange as I walked/ ZN2612| Londons Ordinarie/ Tune: pleasant new tune/ P1 192-3: Iohn Wright, neere Old Baily/ E 169 = CR 1181= RWL 74 = Frb.19(16) = DC1 121b: CVWC/ RB2 24: Assignes of Thomas Symcocke [Version of song in T. Heywood's `Rape of Lucrece', and as "In ye Royal Exchange as I walked," in BL MS Add. 22603, f. 57]

Subject: Lyr Add: THROUGH THE ROYAL EXCHANGE AS I WALKED
From: masato sakurai
Date: 26 Feb 02 - 06:44 AM

THROUGH THE ROYAL EXCHANGE AS I WALKED
(Source:"Elizabethan Popular Culture" by Leonard R.N. Ashley copyright 1988 by Bowling Green State University Popular Press, Bowling Green Ohio)

Through the Royal Exchange as I walked,
Where gallants in satin do shine,
At midst of the day they parted away
To several places to dine.

The gentry went to the King's Head,
The nobles unto the Crown;
The knights went to the Golden Fleece,
And the ploughmen unto the Clown.

The clergy will dine at the Mitre,
The vintners at the Three Tuns;
The usurers to the Devil will go,
And the friars to the Nuns.

The ladies will dine at the Feathers,
The Globe no captain will scorn;
The huntsmen will go the Greyhound below,
And some townsmen to the Horn.

The plumbers will dine at the Fountain,
The cooks at the Holy Lamb;
The drunkards by noon to the Man in the Moon,
And cuckolds to the Ram.

The roars will dine at the Lion,
The watermen at the Old Swan,
The bawds will to the Negro go,
And whores to the Naked Man.

The keepers will to the White Hart,
The merchants unto the Ship;
The beggars they must take their way
To the Eggshell and the Whip.

The farriers will to the White Horse,
The blacksmiths unto the Lock;
The butchers unto the Bull will go,
And the Carmen to the Bridewell Dock.

The fishmongers unto the Dolphin,
The bakers to the Cheat Loaf;
The turners unto the Ladle will go,
Where the may merrily quaff.

The tailors will dine at the Shears,
The shoemakers will to the Boot;
The Welshmen they will make their way
And dine at the sign of the Goat…

(From: THIS PAGE)

"Londons ordinary: or, Every man in his humour" (Printers: Coles, F. (London); Vere, T. (London); Wright, J. (London); Clarke, J. (London); Date: between 1674 and 1679; Imprint: Printed for F. Coles, T. Vere, J. Wright, and J. Clarke) is in the Bodleian Library.

~Masato

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Londons Ordinary
From: Lanfranc
Date: 25 Feb 02 - 06:51 PM

I remember the song, (sung, as I recall, by Bert LLoyd)but not well enough to post the lyrics.

It can be found on a CD called "The Tale of Ale" (http://www.freedmus.demon.co.uk/taleofale.htm) which is available from Camsco.

Subject: Londons Ordinary
From: GUEST,Martin
Date: 25 Feb 02 - 06:37 PM

I'm looking for the Lyrics for a Broadsheet Ballad called Londons Ordinary. It's about all the pubs in London and the different trades that frequented them. I used to sing it years ago and can only remeber the first verse- Through the Royal Exchange as i walked , the gallants in satin did shine - at the end of the day they started away to various places to dine . Any ideas???