E.D.&S. Editorship - Dave Arthur

Subject: E.D.&S. Editorship - Dave Arthur
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 26 Feb 02 - 06:47 AM

I, and several other Mudcat members (looking at the list of recipients) have recently received a rather disturbing E-mail from Dave Arthur who for many years was the editor of "English Dance & Song", the magazine of the English Folk Dance and Song Society.

I think that the e-mail is rather long and mentions too many names of Society staff and members to post here, although if anyone wishes to post it either in full or preferably in a digest form - please feel free to do so.

Basically Dave (once well known on the folk scene with his ex-wife Toni) appears to have been relieved of his position by the EFDSS in a very shameful manner.

Many years ago I served on the Sales and Publications Committee (as well as the NEC) of the EFDSS and found Dave to be very diligent, artistic and hard-working in this job. In the years since, while not such an active of the society, I have still found ED&S to be an excellent publication.

Are there any other members of the EFDSS, especially from the current "Inner Circle", who would like to comment or give any explanation of what seems to be a rather nasty way of dismissing someone who has worked hard on the Society's behalf for many years ?

Subject: RE: E.D.&S. Editorship - Dave Arthur
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Feb 02 - 07:17 AM

It would be interesting to read the gist of what the email says.

Subject: Full text of E-mail
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 26 Feb 02 - 07:56 AM

OK - Here's the full text:


This is a note from Dave Arthur to let you know that the Publications Committee of the EFDSS have for several months been deciding the future fate, design, contents etc., of English Dance and Song Magazine without having the courtesy and good manners to let me, the Editor, know anything about it.

The first I heard was when Phil Wilson came down for lunch before Christmas and after about six hours, just before he was leaving, he dropped into the conversation that the Publications Committee, had been working on the magazine and would be dispensing with my services immediately. After pointing out to him that this was absolutely outrageous, and completely unacceptable behaviour, and would not be countenanced in any other company, society or academic institution, he said, as if this was an excuse, 'Well, you know what these committees are like.' I told him that I did not accept this decision without any discussion, and that as Editor I would be perfectly happy to put into practise any new ideas for the magazine that the Society might think appropriate. Having already had long talks to Phil Wilson, earlier in the year, and all previous Society Chief Executives, with regards to getting more backing from the Society to constantly try to improve the magazine. I pointed out to Phil Wilson that I had already started working on the Spring 2002 issue of ED&S and had ongoing articles, reviews etc., coming in. He went back to London agreeing to 'sort it out'. Nothing more was heard from the Society until a couple of weeks ago when I got a phone call from Tim Walker saying how shocked he was to have just found out that no one had condescended to inform me that the magazine was being printed and edited in Yorkshire, by apparently, a member, or members, of the Committee. I told Tim Walker that I had had no word from anyone since Phil Wilson left me last year saying that he would sort it out after he realised how angry I was at the proposed treatment. I pointed out to Tim Walker that I had been working on the next magazine and was ready to start taking copy to the usual printer. Tim Walker said that they had already been informed that the magazine was being printed and edited in Yorkshire, but that in the light of the appalling behaviour of the Publications Committee and, of course the Society, he would have to ring the printer and re-establish the magazine with them. A couple of days later Phil Wilson rang up to see what was going on. I told him that as far as I was concerned I was still editor of the magazine, and pointed out that I had never agreed to anything else, and was still waiting to hear from the Publications Committee to discuss any changes to the magazine, as he and I had agreed before Christmas. He again said that he'd 'sort it out'. That was the last I have heard from anyone. I rang the printer a couple of days ago and he said that he had had no contact since being told that the magazine was no longer edited by me, or being printed by him.

I think that anyone with half an ounce of business sense, common sense and decency would see that this situation is unbelievably rude, and discourteous to an editor who has spent 25 year keeping the magazine going and gradually fighting to improve its look and content against all odds. I have fought for the magazine's existence more than once, and have resisted editorial control at various times from politically motivated groups. I have always ensured that anyone within the Society would have access to the Society magazine and could air their ideas in public. Over the 25 year I have also published hundreds of important articles on every aspect of folksong, dance and culture, that would never have otherwise seen the light of day. Over the years the Society has been a notorious hotbed of plot, counter plot, dirty dealings, back-stabbings and the responsible for the undermining of the confidence of various members of staff, all of whom it will be noted have left the Society over the years. To my knowledge the majority of truly worthwhile and knowledgeable Society employees - paid or volunteer, have eventually left under duress or in despair at the way the Society is run.

If you think that the way the Society is attempting to treat me, an editor for 25 years, is completely out of order and will do nothing but add another black mark to the Society's already grubby history, then please drop them an e-mail asking what is going on? Or if you feel more strongly about it register your disatisfaction with their conduct. Also please forward this e-mail to anyone on your files involved with folk music. If this is allowed to go ahead then there is no reason to suppose that exactly the same sort of thing could happen next month to the Journal or the Library. I'm sure there are committee members out there who'd love to re-organise the library and would like to have a go at Malcolm's job, or elbow Mike Heaney, without a by-your-leave, and turn the Journal into a folk comic.

Wishing you all that's best, Dave Arthur, Editor English Dance and Song

Subject: RE: E.D.&S. Editorship - Dave Arthur
From: Matthew Edwards
Date: 26 Feb 02 - 08:08 AM

Dave (Bryant): thanks for forwarding this - it sounds most disturbing. I've been a passive supporter of EFDSS for a few years on the basis that its the only national organisation we've got in England, but it does seem to have an unhappy knack of dispensing with the services of anybody who actually tries to promote the interests of folksong. If it wasn't for Malcolm Taylor and the Library I'm not sure that it is worth persevering with.

Subject: RE: E.D.&S. Editorship - Dave Arthur
From: Crane Driver
Date: 26 Feb 02 - 06:35 PM

Anyone checked this is genuine? It has that "copy this e-mail to eveyone you know" line in it that we are warned to watch out for in hoaxes.

Subject: RE: E.D.&S. Editorship - Dave Arthur
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 26 Feb 02 - 07:17 PM

It's the real thing. Here is are responses from EFDSS:

From Rachel Taylor, Chair of the EFDSS National Council:

Amongst the new initiatives now in hand at the EFDSS is a decision to take the magazine English Dance and Song (EDS) in a totally new direction. This was discussed at a meeting between Dave Arthur and Phil Wilson last year. Dave will not be editing future editions of English Dance and Song.

Unfortunately Dave has a very different view of events based on that meeting and he has sent a message to a number of people to express his view on how this information was relayed to him. We have met recently and discussed our differences.

The EFDSS is very grateful for the hard work and dedication Dave has put into the magazine for over 25 years. There will be an article on Dave in the Summer issue of EDS.

Please make sure you see a copy of the March edition of EDS - the Society would be interested in your comments. If you are not a member but would like to receive a copy please e-mail me your address and I'll arrange for a copy to be sent to you.

Rachel Taylor - Chair, National Council

------------------------------------------------------------------- From Paul Davenport, the new Editor of English Dance & Song:

Like many of you I only have one side to the story and so I do not wish to comment here. The following is part of a mailing which I have already sent to a contributor.

My recourse is to tell you what I have to do and what's planned and then for you to make any decisions as you see fit. I'm sitting between a rock and a hard place here and have no wish for anyone to feel upset for any reason.

My brief is to create a magazine which will sit comfortably on the newsstand alongside 'Irish Dancing', 'Dirty Linen', 'Sing Out' etc. It will not be another personality driven mag like Froots, or even Living Tradition. It must address the needs of those who are active in the folk scene as well as those who have not yet come to the same scene. To do this I must produce copy which is interesting both to the informed and the total newcomer. This is not possible in a single article but must be reflected in the balance. Any decision I make here is going to upset someone and already several writers have voted with their feet. Equally, new contributors have come forward and there is some unusual and interesting stuff in the mag for the March edition. I need copy which has accessibility to the newcomer, shelf life for the informed reader and a plain English approach to language. I would like writers to be amusing and light in their touch. Not always possible I know.

I agreed to do this job on the condition that I could remove from the magazine the articles, including many obituaries, which are important to the members but sudden death to a news stand mag. These and the diary dates are now included in a members supplement which I hope will contain stuff of real quality and so enhance the value of being a member of the society.

Effectively, therefore there are two magazines, a members only one and a glossy evangelical one for the general public, as large as usual and available on sale wherever we can put it.

Other than this I can only suggest that you judge the magazine and members supplements when you receive them. I do not wish to enter into a debate on other related issues and I hope members and other interested parties will understand this. I can only end by saying that my interests lie with the society and its membership both present and future.

Hopefully the latter will be greater than the former.

Best wishes,

Paul Davenport ------------------

Subject: RE: E.D.&S. Editorship - Dave Arthur
From: Jon Bartlett
Date: 26 Feb 02 - 07:30 PM

Would someone please provide the email addresses of the Chair of the EFDSS National Council and of Dave Arthur? I'd like to add my 2 cents (Canadian) to the debate and my commiserations to Dave Arthur, who, regardless of reason, cause, or circumstance, should never have been treated in the way he apparently was.

Subject: RE: E.D.&S. Editorship - Dave Arthur
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 26 Feb 02 - 10:03 PM

I can't make any informed comment on the way EFDSS has treated Dave Arthur, who has edited English Dance and Song since 1979, because, like everybody else here, I don't know what actually happened.  It certainly seems from what we have been told that it was very badly handled, but we have, so far, only one side of the story.  I can't take sides, either; I have considerable respect for Dave, and Paul, the new editor, is a friend and colleague.  What I would say is that few publications have editors for life; as circumstances change, new arrangements may become necessary.  I've been bounced from long-standing jobs in magazines in my time, sometimes without even the courtesy of being told at all, so I know what it feels like; in every case, though, I've understood that change was necessary.  The point, I suppose, is whether or not the transition is dealt with with tact and sensitivity; Dave clearly feels that it was not.

If you want them, email addresses for EFDSS officers are available at  EFDSS, and Dave Arthur can be contacted at [e-mail]

If you want to express an opinion, though, I'd ask you to bear in mind that we don't at present have the full facts; there may be additional factors of which we are unaware.

Subject: RE: E.D.&S. Editorship - Dave Arthur
From: Jon Bartlett
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 04:07 AM

Thanks for the email and advice, Malcolm. I'm not planning on going off half-cocked: I'm sure they'll tell me to keep my nose out of what's not my business, and they'd be right. But I'd like to get a notion of what they're planning for the rag. I reviewed it twenty years or so ago, and it was at that time bloody awful, I suspect for the same reason: EFDSS doesn't appear to know, and maybe has never known, who its public is. Is it the current membership or is it a larger (potential) membership - and how much water can they afford to put in the present wine, already, as I understand, quite acqueous?

Subject: RE: E.D.&S. Editorship - Dave Arthur
From: Hrothgar
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 04:32 AM

As a member of the EFDSS for 27 years, I'm not too keen on this. It smacks too much of the brawl a few years ago when people were looking at (among other things) closing Cecil Sharp House.

Whatever the justification might be, it can't have been handled very well if it surfaces like this.

I am trying to contact a couple of the parties involved to find out how much more there is in the story.

Subject: Thanks for the other side
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 06:27 AM

Thanks Desert Dancer for providing the other side of the story. As I said at the start, I didn't really want to post the full text of Dave's e-mail, but I suppose we all needed to know what he had to say. Having served on enough EFDSS commitees in my time (including the then Sales & Publications sub-committee), I know that communications is not an area in which the society excels.

If the EFDSS wish to change the editor and style of ED&S that is obviously up to them and I will reserve my judgement until the March issue appears. However, I would like to hear a response from the Society to Dave's allegations that he was not given clear and early notice of their intentions regarding ED&S. I have known other occasions when dismissals were handled with very little tact, understanding, or information.

As I have said, I have seen both sides of these matters in the past. One of the rules of committees is that when a motion is passed, objecting members either have to work with it, or resign - they cannot try and sabotage it later. The occasion mentioned by Hrothgar is an example of this, I was on the NEC at the time and (I think enough time has passed to breach confidentiality) although I opposed the motion I had to face a barrage of hostility from Ursula Vaughan-Williams et al at the AGM !