Other names for the same song?

Subject: Other names for the same song?
From: Les B
Date: 27 Feb 02 - 11:54 PM

Is there a thread here at Mudcat, or a website that lists alternative names for songs? I know Ceolas Fiddler's Companion does it for fiddle tunes, but I'm looking for things like: "Anacreon in Heaven" is also "Star Spangled Banner"
"Villikins and his Dinah" is "Sweet Betsy From Pike"
"Marching through Georgia" is "All are talking of Utah"
etc. For those of us who don't read music, but learn by ear, this would solve a great many problems.

Subject: RE: Other names for the same song?
From: Sorcha
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 04:06 PM

I can only think of fiddle tunes like Little Beggarman/Gilderoy/Old Soldier With a Wooden Leg. You want songs, not tunes, right?

Subject: RE: Other names for the same song?
From: GUEST,Les B.
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 05:10 PM

Sorcha - I don't mind fiddle tunes either, although as I mentioned, there is a site (Ceolas) that cross-references those pretty thoroughly.

I am especially looking for songs. For instance, when you see an unfamiliar piece of sheetmusic, a song in an old book, or a broadsheet that says "air: Caroline of Edinborough," if you know that tune by some other, more recent name, you can sing the words right away, instead of finding someone to play it for you on the piano. I'm really wondering, however, if this information doesn't exist somewhere already. Neatly collected and bundled, just waiting for us "non-reading" folkies to stumble across it. (Fat chance!!)

Subject: RE: Other names for the same song?
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 05:35 PM

Songs or tunes makes little difference. Both sometimes have several titles, and some of the titles will also be duplicated for different songs or tunes. Opening lines are more stable for songs until you get to folk songs, and there they don't work much better than titles.

Coding of the opening of a tune is supposed to lead to a method of identifying tunes regardless of title, but there have been several ways implemented to do this. All of them work well for identical tunes under different titles, but none of them work very well for more than slight differences between variant versions of tunes.

Subject: RE: Other names for the same song?
From: GUEST,Les B.
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 05:52 PM

Guest - I realize it's fairly imperfect, but sometimes just a broad hint of whether a tune is already familiar will allow one to make a judgement about investing the time to learn the song.

Are there some sites that discuss this coding of first lines, etc.?

Subject: RE: Other names for the same song?
From: Gary T
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 06:21 PM

Little Beggarman = Redhaired Boy

Battle of New Orleans = Eighth of January

Subject: RE: Other names for the same song?
From: pavane
Date: 01 Mar 02 - 02:44 AM

Some time ago, there was a proposal for a cross-reference thread for this purpose. There are far too many examples for it to be an easy job, and I am finding new ones all the time.

Subject: RE: Other names for the same song?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 01 Mar 02 - 11:29 PM

THere's a neat feature in DigiTrad that will certainly help answer your questions. If you find a song that has a tune listed, it will appear at the bottom of the file. (such as Tune File: VILDINAH)

To find other songs that share that tune search for *VILDINAH (the asterisk is required because there's an invisible character that precedes the tune file's name). Give it a try.

Subject: RE: Other names for the same song?
From: Les B
Date: 02 Mar 02 - 02:38 AM

Dick - thanks! Now this is what I was hoping existed somewhere !!