Lyr Req: The Spanish Lady

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Spanish Lady
From: Ged Fox
Date: 29 Apr 16 - 11:48 AM

Folk song collected by H.E.D. Hammond from George Moore of Hazelbury Bryan, Dorset.

As I was walking Portsmouth City
There I met a saucy strump;
Up against a wall I pushed her,
Then I found that she was drunk.
Twenty, eighteen, sixteen, fourteen,
Twelve, ten, eight, six, four, two, none;
Nineteen, seventeen, fifteen, thirteen,
Eleven, nine, seven, five, three and one.

Going on I met some other
And I told to her my case.
She said "You need go no further,"
Up she took me to her place.

When I woke up in the morning,
Oh! What a terrible sight of woes!
She had only gone and left me,
Gubbered off with all my clothes!

The backwards counting, according to the note, is supposed to be a test for drunkenness. More likely, I think, an inducement to drunkenness, i.e. anyone getting it wrong would have to down a pint before continuing the song.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Spanish Lady
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Nov 18 - 03:36 AM

I know this from the singing of Burl Ives, and it's listed as "Dublin City".

I never could make sense of the counting chorus, but the Wheel of Fortune makes some sense.

The verses with the

"What care I for your gold and silver?
What care I for your house or land?
What care I for your ships on the ocean?
All I want's a nice young man." '

structure reminds me of versions of the "Gypsy Rover"

Thanks for the thoughts on this one

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Spanish Lady
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 27 Nov 18 - 09:35 AM

Ged has given a perfectly reasonable explanation for the counting chorus. I would go one even simpler and say it was just a clever little trick for showing off. Certainly none of this romantic mysticism involved (IMO). The same chorus is used in English songs in the 'No, Sir, No'/'Ripest Apples' family Roud 542. Jim Dixon gave a version here in 2010 & Karina in 2009. I have broadsides dating back to the middle of the 18th century. The Irish, American and Scottish versions seem to be developments of the English broadside.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Spanish Lady
From: Jack Campin
Date: 27 Nov 18 - 10:03 AM

The wheel of fortune is one of those fairground gambling things where you throw darts at a spinning board. As an image of the vagaries of fate it goes back at least to the Middle Ages with the Carmina Burana. The list of numbers is just what's on the board, nothing to do with counting money or tests of sobriety.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Spanish Lady
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 27 Nov 18 - 11:13 AM

Jack
That's interesting. But are the numbers on the wheel actually arranged in that order? 20, 18 etc.? If they are then that seems fairly conclusive. If not then it's just another theory.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Spanish Lady
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 27 Nov 18 - 11:19 AM

Struggling to find anything by Googling.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Spanish Lady
From: Jack Campin
Date: 27 Nov 18 - 11:55 AM

I doubt there's a standard - I wasn't aware that there was any set order in the song either.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Spanish Lady
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 27 Nov 18 - 02:29 PM

20 to none, 19 to one. Never seen anything else. I think the 'Wheel of Fortune' stanza is probably an interloper commonplace.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Spanish Lady
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 27 Nov 18 - 02:41 PM

'The Wheel of Fortune' (Roud 1075) is a song in its own right, under various titles such as 'Love is Pleasing', 'The False Lover', 'When I was young I was well beloved' all from lines within the song. Broadsides only date from the middle of the 19th century and it's highly likely it's just a collection of commonplaces. There are as you would expect numerous songs with that title but not in British oral tradition.