Subject: Lyrics to "Land o' the Leal" From: lindenizen@aol.com Date: 23 Mar 98 - 01:21 AM I searched the database but couldn't find this song, and don't remember who sang it (it's Scottish). Partial chorus: I'm wearin' awa', Jeanne Like sna wreaths in thaw, Jeanne I'm wearin' awa' To the land o' the leal Complete lyrics would be much appreciated.Thanks! |
Subject: RE: Lyrics to From: Bruce O. Date: 23 Mar 98 - 12:56 PM It's by Baroness Nairn, but hasn't anything to do with folksong, so I'm not copying it. |
Subject: RE: Lyrics to From: dick greenhaus Date: 23 Mar 98 - 04:43 PM Folksong or not, it's in the database. Try a search for leal |
Subject: RE: Lyrics to From: Alex Date: 23 Mar 98 - 10:54 PM Bruce, in the eternal words of Billy Connolly, "FUCK OFF!" |
Subject: RE: Lyrics to From: Bruce O. Date: 24 Mar 98 - 12:23 AM I should have been more polite and said in my humble opinion it has nothing to do with folksong. Sorry. |
Subject: RE: Lyrics to From: Date: 24 Mar 98 - 11:16 AM You are getting to be real popular aren't you Bruce. (by the way I still am waiting to hear about that friend of yours that invented the CD) |
Subject: RE: Lyrics to From: Bruce O. Date: 24 Mar 98 - 11:28 AM I was told a little about the new CD in private. I wasn't told that it was a secret, but I don't know if what I know is public knowledge, and think I'd better not say anything about the little I do know about it. "Land of the Leal" in DT shows why I never take a song from a phono record if there's any other source for a song or tune. That the fastest way to get a corrupt copy of a song. |
Subject: RE: Lyrics to From: Bruce O. Date: 24 Mar 98 - 01:56 PM For the relationship of Lady Nairn's "Land of the Leal", 1798, to the Scottish folksong "Be kind to your Nainsel', John" see P. N. Shuldham-Shaw's article on the Duncan MSS in FMJ, 1966, and Ford's 'Song Histories', 1900. There are further extensive notes on the two songs in 'Greig-Duncan', III, #706. Some had taken the song to be by Burns. |
Subject: RE: Lyrics to From: dulcimer Date: 25 Mar 98 - 05:34 PM Alex, Nothing merits vulgar language. We had a lengthy discussion of what is folk music last year and I thought came to a live-let-live truce about what folk music is and what should or should not be on this site and to be pretty understanding of what is requested. We may disagree with Bruce from time to time, but we should respect his efforts and opinions. |
Subject: RE: Lyrics to From: BAZ Date: 25 Mar 98 - 05:39 PM Alex While I don't agree with censorship I do think it is a shame that my young son who is becoming interested in folk music and likes to skim through the Mudcat links offline has to experience this sort of foul language (3times) during normally adult discussions. Baz |
Subject: RE: Lyrics to From: Alex Date: 25 Mar 98 - 09:58 PM Pompous asses like Bruce will always merit a spirited reply when necessary. His reply contributed nothing to the request and the he and his so-called "purist" likes are apt to dissuade folks from making requests on this forum. As to "Land O' The Leal" not being a folksong - when your work is mistaken as a Burns' composition it has to be up there in terms of quality. I don't suppose Bruce considers Burns to have written any folk songs, either. If you want my apology - you have it (not to Bruce, though). |
Subject: RE: Lyrics to From: Tinwhistlers Mutha Date: 26 Mar 98 - 08:27 PM Thank you Alex, for your eloquent, and most appropriate, response to Mr. Olson. It has already been established in other forums that bruce is a Celtic Musician wannabe that plays no musical intruments and merely hangs out here attempt to impress us all with his vast knowledge. In one forum he was berated for going on ad nauseum about Q-celts and P-celts or some such nonsense. (There are no such thing by the way. Q-celtic and p-celtic are languages. Calling them p-celts and q-celts is like calling Australians "English.") In another forum he claimed to have gone to high school with the guy who invented the CD.(It was invented by Phillips electronics in 1982.) And if you want a real treat check out his web site, a marvel HTML script writing.(And as far as I could tell, there was nothing there worth reading.) p.s. To Helen: now that is what you call "flaming." .....bitch. |
Subject: RE: Lyrics to From: Bruce O. Date: 26 Mar 98 - 09:53 PM There's a writeup on James T. Russell's invention of the CD (at Battelle not Phillips) at: web.mit.edu/invent/inventorsR-Z/russell.html |
Subject: RE: Lyrics to From: Bruce O. Date: 26 Mar 98 - 10:04 PM I can't get that to work. What's wrong? I'll have to find it again and recheck URL. |
Subject: RE: Lyrics to From: Bruce O. Date: 26 Mar 98 - 10:37 PM Screwed up my html. Go to: web.mit.edu/invent/www/inventorsR-Z/russell.html |
Subject: RE: Lyrics to From: Bruce O. Date: 26 Mar 98 - 10:51 PM Got to the Archive for winners of the Lemelson prize and click on R then look for Compact Disc |
Subject: RE: Lyrics to From: Bruce O. Date: 26 Mar 98 - 11:32 PM Burns is quality, that wasn't the subject. Some of his songs do seem to be traditional. Burns wrote songs and poems, he also rewrote old songs, and he also collected folksongs (he was the first ever to give us the magnificent "Tam Lin".) I thought the subject here was folksongs, real folksongs that is. |
Subject: RE: Lyrics to From: Alex Date: 27 Mar 98 - 12:11 AM If you had your way there wouldn't be any folksongs. Even Anon was a person at one time and if you find out what his name really was you'd disqualify all the trad stuff as well. |
Subject: RE: Lyrics to From: judy Date: 27 Mar 98 - 02:17 AM All,
Knowing nothing about "Land o' the Leal", I popped in to read this thread because there were 25 responses to it. I have read your comments which seem very uncharacteristic of the DT and have only this bit of old wisdom for you:
If you can't say anything nice, best to say nothing at all"
And now taking my own advise I will leave you.
enjoy! |
Subject: RE: Lyrics to From: dulcimer Date: 27 Mar 98 - 08:17 AM To all--what and how you say something about someone else may say little about them but much about you. If you don't like a thread or a person or something they say, the best action is to roll past as fast as you can. |
Subject: RE: Lyrics to From: Dan Mulligan Date: 28 Mar 98 - 01:46 PM I haven't heard this "Land O the leal. " I guess I don't understand why it is not a folk song. Is it because it is a contemporary tune (that would disqualify a lot of modern folk music .) Or is it because of the way that Silly Wizard performed the music on their CD (Ashley MacIsaac performs many traditional tunes on his CDs with electrics instruments and funk arrangements, does this make them no longer fol music.) Or is it simply that Bruce doesn't like "Silly Wizard" and that makes it not folk music. (I personally don't like Michael Flatley. I think that he brings Irish step dancing down to the level of the Las Vegas nightclub act. But.....it still is folk dancing.) Dan |
Subject: RE: Lyrics to From: lindenizen@aol.com Date: 28 Mar 98 - 02:33 PM Thank you, Dick Greenhaus, for pointing me to the place I could find the lyrics to a SONG I wanted. Very sorry to get any nastiness going. I just wanted to sing this song, this legitimate SONG no matter its source or sources, to my little boys when putting them to bed at night. That is one of the many purposes of folk singing, so it is. Now I have this lovely song, which they adore. Thanks |
Subject: Lyr Add: THE LAND O' THE LEAL (Lady Nairne) From: masato sakurai Date: 22 Jul 04 - 12:20 PM LAND O' THE LEAL in the DT is the Silly Wizard version, without attribution. Here's Lady Nairne's original from Charles Rogers, Life and Songs of the Baroness Nairne (London: Charles Griffin and Co., 1869, pp. 3-4): THE LAND O' THE LEAL |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Land o' the Leal From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 22 Jul 04 - 12:54 PM Thanks for the Lady Nairn lyrics. My grandfather used to sing it; I'm sure his words were different. A lovely piece. Mudcat is puttering along on one cylinder again (as usual?) and I can't raise the DT to see the S-W rendition. The exchange between Bruce O and Alex is amusing reading. I am sure, that if we had all of the old paper, much of Child and much of Sharp would turn out to be composed music. My definition of folk is music that has lost its composer/author. Incomplete, of course. Perhaps 'music as remembered' would be better. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Land o' the Leal From: GUEST,Auldtimer Date: 22 Jul 04 - 02:43 PM The best singer I've heard with this song, but a different set of words, was Lizzie Higgins. On reflection Lizzie Higgins was more than likley the best singer I've ever heard. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Land o' the Leal From: Tattie Bogle Date: 22 Jul 04 - 05:09 PM Another excellent version on Duncan McCrone's CD "Glasgow Boy". BTW has no-one noticed that if you double the tempo and put it into 6/8 time, it's the same tune as "Scots wha hae"? |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Land o' the Leal From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 22 Jul 04 - 06:39 PM Yes. Both songs were set to Hey Tutti Taiti (see Masato's post above). The DT text, transcribed apparently from a recording by Silly Wizard, is the standard version widely published, with piano arrangements, in books of Popular Scottish Song from the mid 19th century onward. That in turn is a shortened and slightly altered form of the text which appeared in Alnwick's 1812 edition of Burn's Poetical Works (wrongly attributed to Burns and with "John" altered to "Jean" and a partly variant final verse). Lady Nairne wrote her verses in 1798; they were not published under her name, but circulated informally. In the process, changes were made, deliberately or inadvertently, by intermediaries. Not the "oral transmission" of the folk song, though the mechanics of it are broadly similar. The original MS has been published in facsimile: it lacks the four lines beginning "Sae dear that joy" (see above) which seem to have been added later. A song with a similar burden, Be Kind to Your Nainsel John, has been found in oral currency; there are a number of versions in the Greig-Duncan collection. Presumably Lady Nairne used a form of it as the germ for her verses. I don't recall Lizzie Higgins singing that, but one of the sets collected by Duncan is in Gordeanna McCulloch's repertoire. She got it from The Folk Music Journal, where it appeared in 1966. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Land o' the Leal From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 22 Jul 04 - 06:49 PM I see that one of the Greig-Duncan sets is in the DT: Be Kind to Yer Nnainsel', John. It isn't one of those that include the Land of the leal refrain, though. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Land o' the Leal From: Jim McLean Date: 23 Jul 04 - 09:42 AM Legend has it that hey Tutti Taitie was played at the the Battle of Bannockburn. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Land o' the Leal From: John in Brisbane Date: 12 Jan 05 - 08:02 PM Some minor mysteries here for me. I recently had the pleasure of seeing and hearing Dick Gaughan several times at the Woodford Festival here in Queensland. My memory is (perhaps incorrectly) that he attributed the authorship to Brian McNeil. Dick's accent is broad and the acoustics weren't always perfect. Is there a McNeil 'Leal' song or have I cocked this up? My printed version of the song has different lyrics to the DT, but I haven't had the chance to compare them with those in Malcolm's post. Not everyone will agree with me but I do like the harmonisation in my score, which (I'm guessing) probably dates from the 1930's. I'll produce an ABC version with chords when I get the chance. Regards, John |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Land o' the Leal From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 12 Jan 05 - 08:09 PM Where is yours from? As I mentioned earlier, the song was widely published in popular collections, frequently with piano accompaniments. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Land o' the Leal From: GUEST,robbie Date: 13 Jan 05 - 08:15 AM Brian McNeil Mentions the Land o' the leal in "Nogods, and precious few heroes", one f my favourite songs. love Robbie |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Land o' the Leal From: GUEST Date: 13 Jan 05 - 09:42 AM "No Gods" is one of many Brian McNeill songs sung by Dick Gaughan. For there's no gods and there's precious few heroes But there's plenty on the dole in the land o the leal And it's time now to sweep the future clear Of the lies of a past that we know was never real love Robbie |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Land o' the Leal From: GUEST,JCWS Date: 13 Jan 12 - 07:55 AM Try this LAND O' THE LEAL C I'm wearin' awa, Jean, F Like snaw-wreaths in thaw, Jean C F G I'm wearin' awa' tae the Land o' the Leal C There's no sorrow there, Jean, F There's neither cauld nor care, Jean C F G The day is aye fair in the Land o' the Leal Ye aye were leal and true, Jean Your task is ended noo, Jean And I'll welcome you tae the Land o' the Leal Our bonnie bairn's there, Jean She was baith guid and fair, Jean And oh, we grudged her sair, tae the Land o' the Leal So dry that tearful ee, Jean, My soul langs tae be free, Jean And angels wait on me tae the Land o' the Leal So fare-thee-weel my ain Jean, This world's care is vain, Jean We'll meet and aye be fain, tae the Land o' the Leal |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Land o' the Leal From: GUEST,flyingscot4 Date: 07 May 17 - 07:00 PM Here's what I found in Rampant Scotland.com: Traditional Scottish Songs - Land O The Leal The melody for this song is an old air, "Hey, tuttie, tattie" which was also used by Robert Burns for "Scots Wha' Hae'". Lady Nairne wrote the words on the death of the only child of her friend, Mrs. Archibald Campbell Colquhoun (who had been a love of Sir Walter Scott at one time). Land O The Leal I'm wearin' awa' Jean, Like snaw-wreaths in thaw, Jean, I'm wearin' awa' To the land o' the leal. There's nae sorrow there, Jean There's neither cauld nor care, Jean, The day's aye fair In the land o' the leal. To me ye hae been true Jean, Your task's ended noo, Jean For near kythes my view O' the land o' the leal. Our bonnie bairn's there, Jean, She was baith gude and fair, Jean, And, oh! we grud'd her sair To the land o' the leal. But dry that tearfu' ee Jean, Grieve na for her and me, Jean Frae sin and sorrow free I' the land o' the leal. Now fare ye weel, may ain Jean! This warld's cares are vain, Jean, We'll meet and aye be fein I' the land o' the leal. Meaning of unusual words: awa' = away leal = loyal, faithfull aye = always kythes = reveal, declare bairn = child baith = both grud'd = grudged sair = all one's strength, greatly fein = loving, affectionate No idea as to the accuracy. Hope it helps someone. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Land o' the Leal From: Gallus Moll Date: 07 May 17 - 07:19 PM My friend May, a poet, singer and fiddler and ardent member of the SNP was dying of cancer, and asked me to assist with her funeral plans. I was to organise a particular piper with certain tunes to be played outside the church at the start and end of the service (we ended up with two as another one demanded to play too!)but the most important thing for May was that I should have the organist play the Land of the Leal as her coffin was carried from the church- -purely because the tune WAS hey Tutti Tattie / Scots Wha Hae albeit at a slower pace. It really pleased May to think of the great and the good and in particular the Tories and unionists of this community who wished to be seen at her funeral, to have to stand for the Scottish National Anthem at the end of her service!!!! We had some laughs about that in the weeks before she passed!!!! Gaun' yersel' May!! |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Land o' the Leal From: sciencegeek Date: 07 May 17 - 07:21 PM I learned Land o' the Leal from the Alex Campbell LP, Best Loved Songs of Bonnie Scotland back around 1966... then we found the lyrics in the L A Smith 1888 book, "Music of the Waters,a collection of songs and shanties. just discovered the Alex Campbell songs on youtube which is great because the LP is hard to find and was never made into a CD to my knowledge ... still one of my favorite albums. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Land o' the Leal From: Gallus Moll Date: 07 May 17 - 07:23 PM By the way Bruce Olsen (if you are still around?) - a folk song is one that folk sing! A folk song is about HOW you sing it -- - and you should feel free to adapt it to your own style and understanding. My pal Iain writes songs, and there are people who thing some of his are old undiscovered f9olk songs----! Not that he deliberately sets out to do this, just something about his style - -- I guess it is difficult if you are a member of the Folk Police- - - - |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Land o' the Leal From: Tattie Bogle Date: 07 May 17 - 08:07 PM Ialso a beutiful version of the song sung by Jean Redpath: on a whole album of Lady Nairne songs on cassette. Don't know if it WAS ever re-produced as a CD. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Land o' the Leal From: Gallus Moll Date: 08 May 17 - 08:00 PM I should know the answer to that Tattie B -- but my memory being what it is, and most of my collection being vinyl - -- - I am probably the last person to ask! |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Land o' the Leal From: Jim Carroll Date: 09 May 17 - 02:35 AM "a folk song is one that folk sing!" A far to general statement to be much use, in my opinion. Lady Nairn's songs fall into the category of 'popular poetry' alongside Cunningham, and Burtns, rather than creations of 'the folk' - 'the voice of the people', which is what I believe folk songs are. There's an excellent detailed discussion of Lady Nairn's songs, including, 'Land o' the Leal' in Alfred M William's, FOLK SONGS and POPULAR POETRY - well worth a look at Jim Carroll |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Land o' the Leal From: JMB Date: 09 May 17 - 01:26 PM I love the live version by Silly Wizard. The late Andy Stewart sang it very well and the late Johnny Cunningham's fiddle arrangement was a fantastic accompaniment. I like the conversation they had on stage too before performing the song. Here are the chords I use. I'm (C) wear(G)in' aw(C)a, Jean, Like (F) snaw wreaths in (C) thaw, Jean. I'm (C) wear(E7)in' a(Am)a, (E7) Tae the (Am) Land (F) O' The (C) Leal. (G) There's (C) Nae (G) sorrow (C) there, Jean, There's (G) neither (D7) cauld nor (G) care, (G7) Jean. The (C) day is (E7) aye (Am) fair, (E7) In the (Am) Land (F) O' The (C) Leal. (G) I thought I'd share the chords I like to use. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Land o' the Leal From: JMB Date: 09 May 17 - 01:27 PM Sorry, I sometimes use the G7 in place of those G's too. except in the sixth line where I always play G to G7. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Land o' the Leal From: Gallus Moll Date: 09 May 17 - 07:32 PM Oh well, that's me telt! |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Land o' the Leal From: michaelr Date: 10 May 17 - 06:51 PM What's a leal?? |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Land o' the Leal From: Gallus Moll Date: 10 May 17 - 07:00 PM true-hearted / loyal / faithful Land o' the Leal = the home of the blessed after death (heaven) |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Land o' the Leal From: michaelr Date: 11 May 17 - 03:20 PM Thanks for that. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Land o' the Leal From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 29 Dec 17 - 08:32 AM Lovely version in episode 2 of BBC Little Women shown this week. No credit to the singer was given. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Land o' the Leal From: Felipa Date: 25 Jan 23 - 07:07 PM you are best off ignoring the early posts in this thread, a lot of nastiness. You could as well just start with lyrics posted by Masato Sakurai on 22 July 2004 Keith mentions Little Women. I just listened to a video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EosnXGSiDck; the notes say "The version of Land o' the Leal as performed by Annes Elwy (Beth) in the second episode of the BBC's Little Women (2017)" Of the singers of Land o' the Leal I've listened to tonight, my favourites so far are Hannah Rarity, and a group called Plaidsong https://www.plaidsong.co.uk/post/mystery-around-land-o-the-leal PlaidSong Feb 28, 2020 3 min read Mystery around Land o the Leal This is a gorgeous song, we love performing it and it’s been made more popular recently as it featured on the recent movie, Outlaw King. What is really interesting about this song is that there was quite a bitter fight over deciding who wrote it! Carolina, lady Nairne (1766-1845) was never a fan of any kind of fame. She collected songs, wrote poems and worked quietly on music without letting even her family know what she was doing. She said at one point that even her husband, Lord Nairne, had not been told about her music ‘lest he blab’. I love that! She sat for what must have been hours writing and yet so many people close to her had no idea. She did publish some songs but worked under the name Mrs Bogan of Bogan – check that out if you are ever looking in old music volumes, BB means Lady Nairne. In the case of the Land of the Leal some people believed this was the work of Robert Burns. It became known as his song generally, but others did dispute this. In the 1890's long after her death, a man called Charles Roger asserted that The Land o the Leal had been penned by Lady Nairne. She had written it for her dear friend Mrs Campbell Colquhoun of Killermont on the death of that lady’s infant daughter. She set the tune to a slow version of the tune Hae Tutti Tatti which many of us know as the tune for Scots Wha Hae. This news incensed an admirer of Robert Burns called Alexander Crichton. He eventually got so worked up about the song that he wrote an entire book on it! I always refer to it as an ‘angry little book’. He gives all kinds of reasons why The Land of the Leal must be the work of Burns. He suggested that certain aspects were very like previous Burns songs. Things like the words which were used being very familiar to Burns in particular and that the subject of the death of a child was something Burns had experienced. Crichton starts off by saying his book is an exploration to reach the truth of the matter, but he betrays his real feelings by writing some pretty nasty things about Lady Nairne. He states that she was merely a ‘tinkerer’ of songs and casts doubt on her writing and musical abilities. In some ways it was Lady Nairne’s wish to remain anonymous which worked against her. Had she been less shy and more open about her publications then there would have been no debate. It is hard to know why she wanted to keep quiet and many people ask me this when we talk about her and perform her songs in our presentations. My own thought is that this kind of writing was something she had done ever since she was a young woman. She lived in a time, the late 1700’s, when respectability meant young women did not engage in these kinds of activities. Being a good daughter, a good wife and mother, minding her situation and being part of a polite society when she lived in Edinburgh might all have ensured she kept her work anonymous. The real impact of that modesty and reluctance to shine has been seen in the way that her work has been overlooked for many years. Often her songs have been sung but many believe they are singing or hearing a song by Hogg or Burns, not Lady Nairne. Hogg, Burns and Lady Nairne all collected songs. This means that at times they overlapped with slightly differing versions of similar songs being circulated. They all knew this and were never pretending to have a definitive version! Even today we all know slightly different words or completely different tunes for some classic traditional songs. In truth, this is part of the charm of learning old songs. Finding differing versions and then working to adapt a version to suit our own style and voice is a vital part of the process. It’s what Lady Nairne did and it's what PlaidSong do today. We hope you enjoy our version of the Land of the Leal. (listen at https://www.plaidsong.co.uk/music) |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Land o' the Leal From: GerryM Date: 25 Jan 23 - 11:27 PM I like the recording by Gordon McIntyre & Kate Delaney on their album, Caledonia Dreaming. https://www.discogs.com/release/25688266-Gordon-McIntyre-2-and-Kate-Delaney-Caledonia-Dreaming |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Land o' the Leal From: robomatic Date: 26 Jan 23 - 02:53 PM Appropriate because yesterday January 25th was Robert Burns' day. |
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