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Subject: Lyr Add: THE OLD ORANGE FLUTE From: Wolfgang Date: 22 Jul 99 - 04:15 PM This is a kind of antidote to The Fenian Record Player. I like it better, partly since the abusive treatment in this song is restricted to an instrument. There are several versions both in Republic of Ireland songbooks and in “The Orange Standard", sometimes titled 'The Ould Orange flute'. The one here comes from Colm O'Lochlainn's 'Irish Street Ballads'. Wolfgang THE OLD ORANGE FLUTE (Tune: Villikins...) In the county Tyrone, near the town of Dungannon, Where many a ruction myself had a han' in, Bob Williamson lived there, a weaver by trade And all of us thought him a stout orange blade. On the Twelfth of July as around it would come, Bob played on the flute to the sound of the drum. You may talk of your harp, your piano or lute, But there's nothing compared with the old Orange flute. But Bob the deceiver he took us all in, For he married a Papish called Brigid McGinn, Turned Papish himself and forsook the old cause That gave us our freedom, religion, and laws. Now the boys of the place made some comment upon it, And Bob had to flee to the Province of Connacht. He fled with his wife and his fixings to boot, And along with the latter his old Orange flute. At the chapel on Sundays, to atone for past deeds, He said Paters and Aves and counted his beads, 'til after some time at the priest's own desire, He went with his old flute to play in the choir. He went with his old flute to play for the Mass, And the instrument shivered, and sighed: “Oh, alas!" And blow as he would, though it made a great noise, The flute would play only 'The Protestant Boys'. Bob jumped, and he started, and got in a flutter, And threw his old flute in the blest Holy Water; He thought that this charm would bring some other sound, When he blew it again, it played 'Croppies lie down'. And for all he could whistle, and finger, and blow, To play Papish music he found it no go; 'Kick the Pope', 'The Boyne Water' it freely would sound, But one Papish squeak in it couldn't be found. At a council of priests that was held the next day, They decided to banish the old flute away, For they couldn't knock heresy out of its head And they bought Bob a new one to play in its stead. So the old flute was doomed and its fate was pathetic, 'Twas fastened and burned at the stake as heretic, While the flames roared around it they heard a strange noise- 'Twas the old flute still whistling 'The Protestant Boys'. |
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Subject: The Old Orange Flute From: The Pooka Date: 02 Mar 02 - 02:46 PM What with the Green high holy days fast comin' on, and a couple of decidedly unGreened Ulster threads deservedly thriving, in the spirit of ecumenism and the Good Friday Agreement I searched this and found various references in the Forum, but not the actual lyrics either there or in the DT. Beg pardon if I just missed 'em. As a Greenie, I've always liked the song. Truth be told, I often wondered whether it was a "real" Orange song, or maybe a wee bit of parody---though of which side, I'd damned if I could say for sure. Both? But I gather, from the past threads, that it's for real, all right. So No Surrender! sez I outta da one side o'me gob with me tongue in the other cheek; and here 'tis. THE OLD ORANGE FLUTE In the County Tyrone near the town of Dungannon, Where's many a ruction m'self had a hand in, Bob Williamson lived, a weaver by trade, And all of us thought him a stout orange blade. On the Twelfth of July as it yearly did come Bob played with his flute to the sound of a drum; You may talk of your harp, your piano or lute, But there's none could compare with the old orange flute. But Bob, the deceiver, he took us all in: He married a Papist called Bridget McGinn, Turned Papish himself and forsook the old cause That gave us our freedom, religion and laws. Now the boys of the place made some comment upon it, And Bob had to fly to the province of Connaught. He fled with his wife and his fixings to boot, And along with the latter his old orange flute. At the chapel on Sunday to atone for past deeds Said Paters and Aves and counted his beads, Till after some time at the priests' own desire Bob went with the old flute to play in the choir. He went with the old flute to play for the Mass, But the instrument shivered and sighed, oh alas! And try though he would, though it made a great noise, The flute would play only "The Protestant Boys." Bob jumped and he started and got in a flutter, And threw the old flute in the blessed holy water; He thought that this charm would bring some other sound: When he tried it again it played "Croppies Lie Down." And for all he could whistle and finger and blow, To play Papish music he found it no go; "Kick the Pope" and "Boyne Water" it freely would sound, But one Papish squeakin' it couln't be found. At the council of priests that was held the next day They decided to banish the old flute away; They couldn't knock heresy out of its head, So they bought Bob a new one to play in its stead. Now the old flute was doomed and its fate was pathetic: 'Twas fastened and burned at the stake as heretic; As the flames soared around it they heard a strange noise, 'Twas the old flute still whistling "The Protestant Boys." Toora loo, toora lay, oh it's six miles from Bangor to Donaghadee!
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Old Orange Flute From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 02 Mar 02 - 03:30 PM There is a problem with searches for some titles beginning with "O". A search for orange flute returns, among other things: |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Old Orange Flute From: The Pooka Date: 02 Mar 02 - 04:01 PM Woops!! Sorry. Thanks Malcolm (I *was* surprised to think a song like that would be missing); I'll know better & try more variants next time. Well then, let this be a short-lived complement to the ongoing Ulster Culture threads---from a well-meaning lapsed Papist (Erin Faw Down and Go "Bragh!") who dares to enjoy the songs of both sides, God help me. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Old Orange Flute From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 02 Mar 02 - 04:34 PM The third link I gave contains some information from Wolfgang on search problems affecting this (and other) titles with initial "O". Strange business! |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The Old Orange Flute From: The Pooka Date: 02 Mar 02 - 04:37 PM Thanks again. / And now, for a little satirical sectarian "balance" if desired, Click here |
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Subject: Origins: The Old Orange Flute From: Joe Offer Date: 12 Jul 22 - 01:05 PM This being the 12th of July, it might be a good day to refresh The Ould Orange Flute.... Traditional Ballad Index entry: Old Orange Flute, TheDESCRIPTION: A Protestant man marries a Catholic woman, but his flute refuses to convert, and continues to play Orange songs. Ultimately it is burnt at the stake as a heretic.AUTHOR: unknown EARLIEST DATE: c.1895 (Graham-TheOrangeSongster) KEYWORDS: marriage music fire FOUND IN: Ireland REFERENCES (7 citations): Hodgart-FaberBookOfBallads, p. 216, "The Old Orange Flute" (1 text) OLochlainn-IrishStreetBallads 50, "The Old Orange Flute" (1 text, 1 tune) Hayward-UlsterSongsAndBalladsOfTheTownAndCountry, pp. 112-113, "The Ould Orange Flute" (1 text) Smyth/Bush/Long-OrangeLark 27, "The Ould Orange Flute" (1 text, 1 tune) Graham-TheOrangeSongster, p. 12, "The Ould Orange Flute" (1 text, 1 tune) Silber/Silber-FolksingersWordbook, p. 318, "The Old Orange Flute" (1 text) DT, OLDFLUTE* Roud #3013 CROSS-REFERENCES: cf. "The Protestant Maid" (subject: religious conversion) and references there NOTES [18 words]: OLochlainn-IrishStreetBallads: "Learnt in Belfast about 1912; the tune is another version of Villikens." - BS File: Hodg216 Go to the Ballad Search form Go to the Ballad Index Instructions The Ballad Index Copyright 2022 by Robert B. Waltz and David G. Engle.
OLD ORANGE FLUTE (DT Lyrics) In the county Tyrone, in the town of Dungannon Where many a ruckus meself had a hand in Bob Williamson lived there, a weaver by trade And all of us thought him a stout-hearted blade. On the twelfth of July as it yearly did come Bob played on the flute to the sound of the drum You can talk of your fiddles, your harp or your lute But there's nothing could sound like the Old Orange Flute. But the treacherous scoundrel, he took us all in For he married a Papish named Bridget McGinn Turned Papish himself and forsook the Old Cause That gave us our freedom, religion and laws. And the boys in the county made such a stir on it They forced Bob to flee to the province of Connaught; Took with him his wife and his fixins, to boot, And along with the rest went the Old Orange Flute. Each Sunday at mass, to atone for past deeds, Bob said Paters and Aves and counted his beads Till one Sunday morn, at the priest's own require Bob went for to play with the flutes in the choir. He went for to play with the flutes in the mass But the instrument quivered and cried."O Alas!" And blow as he would, though he made a great noise, The flute would play only "The Protestant Boys". Bob jumped up and huffed, and was all in a flutter. He pitched the old flute in the best holy water; He thought that this charm would bring some other sound, When he tried it again, it played "Croppies Lie Down!" And for all he would finger and twiddle and blow For to play Papish music, the flute would not go; "Kick the Pope" to "Boyne Water" was all it would sound Not one Papish bleat in it could e'er be found. At a council of priests that was held the next day They decided to banish the Old Flute away; They couldn't knock heresy out of its head So they bought Bob another to play in its stead. And the Old Flute was doomed, and its fate was pathetic 'Twas fastened and burnt at the stake as heretic. As the flames rose around it, you could hear a strange noise 'Twas the Old Flute still a-whistlin' "The Protestant Boys". Note: the tune Protestant Boys is also known as Lilliburlero RG Recorded by Patric Galvin, Clancys @Irish @Protestant @political @music @religion filename[ OLDFLUTE TUNE FILE: OLDFLUTE CLICK TO PLAY RG
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Subject: RE: Origins: The Old Orange Flute From: Mrrzy Date: 12 Jul 22 - 01:32 PM I am dating all paperwork "the 12th of July as it yearly has come 2022" at the pain center... |
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Subject: RE: Origins: The Old Orange Flute From: GUEST,John Moulden Date: 19 Jul 22 - 07:32 AM As has been suggested above, this is most likely a satirical song. As far as I can gather its earliest appearance was in The Bohemian Songster published around the turn of the 19th/20th centuries in Dublin by the Nugent company. A shortening of that source to "Nugent Bohem" seems to have led in some publications, especially by Waltons of Dublin to an attribution of authorship, which has set many a one off on a sleeveless errand through Street Directories and Almanacks! |
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Subject: RE: Origins: The Old Orange Flute From: Lighter Date: 19 Jul 22 - 10:04 AM It may have seemed satirical or humorous when Tommy Makem and the Clancys sang it, but satirical of what? Nowadays, and presumably in 1900, it sounds to me mildly - or even defiantly - anti-Catholic. My two cents from North America. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: The Old Orange Flute From: GUEST Date: 19 Jul 22 - 10:18 AM Songs posted as appropriate for the twelfth would by definition be sectarian, wouldn't they? |
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Subject: RE: Origins: The Old Orange Flute From: Richard Mellish Date: 19 Jul 22 - 12:36 PM Way back at the beginning of this thread (millions of years ago) the OP said > This is a kind of antidote to The Fenian Record Player. As far as I can see no-one since then has pointed out that it's the other way round. I associate FRP with Freddie and it may be that he wrote it, but anyway he introduced it as an answer to OOF. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: The Old Orange Flute From: Bill D Date: 19 Jul 22 - 01:51 PM I learned this maybe 45 years ago, and introduce the tune on a sopranino recorder. I treated it as just a silly, fun song till I heard some songs from the other side.... like "One Sunday Morning". Now it always makes me sad to realize how many take the whole thing seriously. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: The Old Orange Flute From: The Sandman Date: 19 Jul 22 - 03:52 PM oh yes, the lunatics will be marching and the hot weather will not help |
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Subject: RE: Origins: The Old Orange Flute From: The Sandman Date: 19 Jul 22 - 04:17 PM joe offer, with the greatest respect, if any of us lived in northern ireland, it would not be a sensible idea to sing this song on the 12 th of july, particularly dependant on what religious bias your audience had |
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Subject: RE: Origins: The Old Orange Flute From: The Sandman Date: 19 Jul 22 - 04:39 PM I had a friend who had run a folk club in england, but moved from there to Antrim. I met her after he had moved,i met her again at a folk festival in England, I asked her what it was like in Antrim, he said the countryside was beautiful, he then told me a story,she said we used to have a session in a pub playing reels jigs etc, all seemed to be ok, until he got a phone call saying look we are sorry but we have had complaints about people playing fenian music, so the session will have to stop, but it will be ok if you want to play blues music |
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Subject: RE: Origins: The Old Orange Flute From: GUEST,Kenny B (inactive) Date: 20 Jul 22 - 04:54 AM If there's anything I cant stand it's intolerance |
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Subject: RE: Origins: The Old Orange Flute From: GUEST,John Moulden Date: 20 Jul 22 - 10:02 AM I am from Northern Ireland but have lived in the Republic for 15years now. I have no sympathy for anyone who wishes to dominate others in society. However, I have probably seen and read closely almost every orange song that has been printed since 1796 (and before, if you look at English Anti-Catholic songs in, say, the Pepys collection). The ould orange flute is a collection of exaggerated anti-catholic expressions and, given its probable first printing by a company that had been prosecuted for publishing 'seditious', that is nationalistic, songs, I am strongly of the opinion that it is satire. If anyone has evidence or well-founded opinion to counter this, I'll happily consider it. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: The Old Orange Flute From: Lighter Date: 20 Jul 22 - 11:05 AM Since the Flute is a pop-cultural production, what's more iinteresting to me than what the author or the publisher intended (which can't know for certain) is how the song has been received. It's undoubtedly humorous, but at whose expense? It ends with the indefatigable, irrepressible Orange flute whistling "The Protestant Boys," a loyalist anthem with lyrics like When James half a bigot, and more of a knave With masses and Frenchmen the land would enslave, The Protestant Boys for liberty drew And showed with the Orange the banner of Blue. Historian Richard Parfitt writes of the Flute that "Orangemen confronted [fears of Catholic social and political influence] in comedic song, belittling and disarming what they otherwise regarded as a genuine threat to Protestantism." Of course, that's just his opinion, but even humorous anti-Catholicism must have offended a lot of Catholics since ca1900, and especially since 1969. When the Clancys and Makem performed the song in the early '60s, it sounded to disinterested listeners like me (and clearly to them as well) like just a bit of clever fun. And so itstill sounds to many. Here in the U.S., there's occasional but apparently growing objection to the "Star-Spangled Banner" as "racist" because a) the poem contains, in the rather convoluted third stanza, the lines No refuge could save the hireling and slave, From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave. and b) the fact that Francis Scott Key owned slaves proves it. That's despite the evident fact that the "offensive" lines don't refer to actual slaves but to the British army, and that Key (and others like Washington and Jefferson) could be patriots just as much as they were slaveholders. If one misapprehended word in an obscure verse is enough to raise hackles, it seems reasonable to assume that a flute that whistles "The Protestant Boys" even as "Papists" attempt to destroy it will raise even bigger, though clearly not universal, hackles. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: The Old Orange Flute From: GUEST,Kenny B (inactive) Date: 22 Jul 22 - 09:27 AM This from an old thread I think adds some balance to the discussion Subject: Lyr Add: THE DERRY AND CUMBERLAND BOYS From: Teribus Date: 05 Jun 02 - 02:35 AM Again from dim and distant memory, I may have this mixed up a bit, but somebody out thre will know: "THE DERRY AND CUMBERLAND BOYS" Noo ye've heard o the Billies and Sallys The Norman Conk and the San Toy Here's two more tae add tae yer tally The Derry and Cumberland Boys Noo the Cumbie Boys are Roman Catholic Tae chapel they've been wance ot twice But Parkhead is their new Jerusalem And Jock Stein the latter day Christ And the Derry Boys are tae be christians That's plain baith tae hear and tae see For their language is really religious "Jesus Christ", "Oh my God", "FTP" When asked what they think o religion They'll say "Aw religions aw right" But these guys are only religious When they want an excuse for a fight So don't wear a green scarf in Brigton Or a blue scarf in Cumberland Street No unless your a heavy weight champion Or hell o a quick on yer feet Cheers, Bill. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: The Old Orange Flute From: GUEST,John Moulden Date: 23 Jul 22 - 04:01 PM Jonathon Lighter's point about reception is well made though I think it's fair to say that everyone's impression is a kind of reception. However, as a scout, though protestant, I sang it with others at campfires and it was always apprehended as lampooning extreme protestant attitudes. In Youth Hostels where a broad mixture of of Northern and Southern Irish society gathered, we sang it and had the same imterpretation. But that was sometime between 1958 and 1968. Since then sensitivities have hardened. My view is that when writtsn, it was satire and this persisted in my circles until the beginning of the troubles. After that, it's interpretation became politicised in Ireland; elsewhere it doesn't matter. |
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