BS: help in letting go of family

Subject: help in letting go of family
From: GUEST,anon. for privacy
Date: 05 Mar 02 - 11:15 AM

dysfunctional family and learning to say no to them

so hard and very sad - please help me let them go

how do you disown them?

Subject: RE: BS: help in letting go of family
From: wysiwyg
Date: 05 Mar 02 - 11:29 AM

See THIS POST.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: help in letting go of family
From: SharonA
Date: 05 Mar 02 - 11:31 AM

Anon asks: "How do you disown them?" *whew* When I first skimmed that sentence, I thought it said "how do you drown them?"

Anon, are you asking how to "disown" them legally, or emotionally? Either way, be strong in your resolve to keep on saying "no" to them. Hopefully, some people more knowledgable than I am on this subject will post links to some good resources for you to find support. Indeed, it is very sad, and I'm sorry to hear about your troubles.

Sharon

Subject: RE: BS: help in letting go of family
From: GUEST,anon. for privacy
Date: 05 Mar 02 - 11:45 AM

emotionally and totally from my life

one is frozen with unmet needs, according to WYSIWYG's post

i have reached the end of trying to help, other's are still trying

getting better at saying no

the sadness which overwhelms is another story, not good for me

trying to say no and goodbye to the cause

Subject: RE: BS: help in letting go of family
From: Big Mick
Date: 05 Mar 02 - 11:51 AM

Very tough, anon. I wish you well and hope you will seek professional advice. This is not a time for self help or "online instruction". That can be useful once you have found your way, but having a professional to help get you started down the path is essential. Ofttimes good friends or well intentioned folks that have a need to offer guidance do more harm than good in the beginning phases of this difficult journey. You are capable, just get some good help to start. You are breaking bonds that have been forged over a lifetime. I wish you well, and will include in my prayers one for your successful journey.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: help in letting go of family
From: wysiwyg
Date: 05 Mar 02 - 12:06 PM

On the contrary, Mick. We all possess the natural tools to heal from these things, and all we need is some help organizing our skills to use them with one another. If these are not tools you are familiar with, it isn't accurate to describe them as you have.

This person clearly knows exactly what s/he needs to do-- just needs support doing it. RC is one way of doing that. Alanon is another, whether the people described are alcoholics or not. A supportive friendship with someone in the same boat is another. A pastoral counseling arrangement is another. And yes, of course, professional help is another. Each model offers its own good points and not-so-good points, and they are not mutually exclusive, either.

People are very smart about using the models that will work, for them, once they know about them and have a safe opportunuty to try them out.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: help in letting go of family
From: Mrrzy
Date: 05 Mar 02 - 12:09 PM

Sometimes, taking a step back can be the first step in the right direction. If you need to disown them, you need to; the trick is not to make it permanent, in case they come to their senses. Good luck!

Subject: RE: BS: help in letting go of family
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Mar 02 - 12:23 PM

in many ways, it depends on how 'near' they are to you--and I do mean physically! If they are right down the street, it is harder than if they are across town, or in another town, state or country.

Nothing will 'really' do except developing callouses and wearing blinders if you seriously must break all ties. Saying "no" to family is a problem.What happens inside you when you do that varies from person to person, and you 'may' need some counseling to help.

There is simply no easy answer.

Subject: RE: BS: help in letting go of family
From: SharonA
Date: 05 Mar 02 - 12:25 PM

WYSIWYG says, "People are very smart about using the models that will work, for them, once they know about them and have a safe opportunity to try them out." Not always; some people get stuck in a cycle of doing something that won't work, again and again, and hoping unreasonably that at some point there will be a different outcome. This can be particularly true if one has been raised in a dysfunctional environment. Bravo to you, Anon, for breaking out of your family's cycle of dysfunctionality and for your determination to stay out of it.

My take on this is that you need to make that "staying out of it" a permanent arrangement, for your own well-being. If it were possible for you to tell them you still love them as part of your family but you won't be part of their dysfunctionality, that might be a positive thing... if they don't try to use your love to suck you back into their cycle, rather than simply loving you in return. I'm not sure it's possible for people like that to simply love in return. I'm pretty darned sure it's not possible for them to simply "come to their senses" without a LOT of intervention, counseling, determination to change their own behavior, etc., etc.

Subject: RE: BS: help in letting go of family
From: Big Mick
Date: 05 Mar 02 - 12:46 PM

Yeah, I agree Sharon. The idea of getting a professionally trained, dispassionate observer to listen and help us realize what part of the problem is ours and what part of the problem is theirs is just plain sound. Once one can see the road clearly, it becomes much easier to navigate it. Then maybe some of the other methods have valid uses. I would agree with Susan that we all possess the tools we need, but we don't all understand the mechanics of using them. And I don't agree that online groups are any type of answer initially unless they are referring folks to some decent, specialized, one on one counseling with qualified, well trained professionals. Just my tuppence worth.

Anon, you are taking the appropriate steps in realizing that a change must happen. Now take the next step and get some solid, professional guidance. You will be very happy you did.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: help in letting go of family
From: wysiwyg
Date: 05 Mar 02 - 12:51 PM

I don't think the person who posted this thread needs to be told which kind of help to get. Part of the dysfunction is often letting others think for us and giving in to the distress that says we can't think for ourselves. Anon does know what needs to happen here and can absolutely make the best decisions possible in the situation at hand. And in that regard, I say-- GO FOR IT!

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: help in letting go of family
From: Big Mick
Date: 05 Mar 02 - 01:04 PM

Actually, Susan, the poster came asking for opinions, and that is what she is getting. Yours is simply one, and there are others. Sometimes it is hard to think for ones self when they get all kinds of conflicting advice from well intentioned, but untrained "counselors". That is why it is always advisable to get entry level counseling from pro's and then make decisions on other forms. This is available from a number of different organizations, many of them faith based. But the criteria is that you start with a pro. Cost is usually prorated or free. And this poster will then weigh their needs and make the decision on his/her own based on what best suits them. I am pulling for this family and I hope they come out the other side better than they went in.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: help in letting go of family
From: GUEST,Been There
Date: 05 Mar 02 - 01:28 PM

Don't know what the details are--maybe you have someone in your family who is super-needy, super-demanding with terrible "problems" and "needs" that are more important than anyone else's, and that you are expected to drop everything and run for the crisis of the day. Maybe you have a psychologically or physically domineering personality who respects no boundaries, or maybe you have ap parent or sibling who insinuates their way into every aspect of your life, on the excuse that you are too naive, weak, or dumb to manage things yourself--and maybe, no matter how awful everything seems, everyone acts like it is perfectly OK and you are the one with the problem--Worst of all, maybe, in spite of this, you love them all, and don't want to hurt anyone--

Maybe counseling will help you to do what you need to do, or to make peace with yourself for doing it --but there is really only one way to deal with it, and that is to take yourself out of the situation--move away as far as you need to move, so that it is impossible for the tentacles to pull you into every little problem--Maybe you need to be across town, or maybe you need to be across the country, but you have to be somewhere that they can't pull you back--because as long as you are in reach,there is no way to make them stop trying--you can try to learn to fight them off, they still push the buttons, and, in the weaker moments, you still give in--

It is the oldest solution to family problems--how do you think human beings ended up scattered all over the world?--they got tired of dealing with their dysfunctional families--

Subject: RE: BS: help in letting go of family
From: GUEST,Anon. for privacy
Date: 05 Mar 02 - 01:40 PM

i should have said i am mostly sad and needed some support

i know what to do and have begun by saying no

even though i know the sibling in question could be on the street and could easily die by their own created disasters

it has come to a head today - they did not report to work

employer has my number for contact - they've lost their job

i know how to say no, i talk to a professional twice per week

it's just so damn sad

Been There, a move is coming soon - all others have already done so

thank you all

Subject: RE: BS: help in letting go of family
From: Big Mick
Date: 05 Mar 02 - 01:46 PM

You are in my prayers. I wish well for you. I have watched a great deal of those I love fly into the flame. It hurts pretty bad, and when one realizes what they must do for their own survival, that hurts even worse. Consider yourself the recipient of a Big Mick hug. Ain't much, but it is the best I can do.

Glad you have a pro involved, and I would bet it is why I can "hear" the resolve in your posts to do what must be done.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: help in letting go of family
From: GUEST,Been There
Date: 05 Mar 02 - 02:13 PM

I have got those calls before--and followed up, trying to get the job back, tried to find a new job, tried to get the lawyers, worked with the social worker, pleaded with the police, the landlords, the phone company--concealed, or soft-pedaled the truth, and, refused to accept the truth, that it wasn't the world, it was the loved one--

I will tell you something else that you must know by now, as well--and that is, as sad, sorry, desperate, as they seem to need your help, when you won't help, they find another way to work things out---and when you do help, they find a way to screw it up--

We were putting together money for his first/last month's rent, and security deposit, after a long rehab, and had lined up the new job, new clothes--called at lunch on the first day of work--he didn't show up--three days later, he was found sleeping it off in the back of a junk-- car--he had blown every penny celebrating the new job--

Subject: RE: BS: help in letting go of family
From: SINSULL
Date: 05 Mar 02 - 02:32 PM

First, you have my sympathy and admiration. I fell into the insane trap of trying to do the same things over and over again and being surprised that the outcome was always the same. It took over a year of therapy before I even recognized my need to stop and the damage my enabling was causing.

I learned to say no to my son and his addiction. No money, no lawyers, no job references, no warm bed or hot meal reapyaed with theft, eventually I even refused to visit him in jail until he agreed to go into a drug rehab. I also learned to say no to the employers, robbery victims, disapproving neighbors, and anyone else who got in the way of my no.
We were lucky. He was able to get off drugs and to some degree on with his life. He could just have easily died in a crack house or beaten to death by one of "friends".

PM me if you want to talk. And get the support of a professional. You may not "need" it but a strong, supportive advocate will make your life a lot easier.

Subject: RE: BS: help in letting go of family
From: SharonA
Date: 05 Mar 02 - 02:43 PM

Hugs from me, too. I too am glad to hear that you've taken the step of talking with a professional on a regular basis, and gaining strength and insight from that.

Unless your sibling is mentally ill and you are his/her legal guardian (and it would appear that you aren't), you are not responsible for his/her behavior; (s)he is responsible for his/her own behavior. Don't ya go forgetting that between those twice-a-week sessions!

It's got to be more than tough to watch someone you grew up with hurting him/herself so badly. It's gotta hurt everyone else around him/her, too... even as far removed as the employer who had to make a hard decision in order to deal with his/her behavior. Just remember that your sibling got him/herself fired and will have gotten him/herself disowned, and (s)he is going to be the only one who can decide whether to get him/herself straightened out and stay straightened out.

Know that we are in your corner, even though you can't see us! :^)
Sharon

Subject: RE: BS: help in letting go of family
From: GUEST,anon. for privacy
Date: 05 Mar 02 - 02:48 PM

thank you muchly

i just called his psychotherpist at the VA clinic and feel much better

he reiterated all that i have been feeling of what is right to do and what you folks have advised

i never knew letting the chips fall where they may could be so hard

ty

Subject: RE: BS: help in letting go of family
From: SINSULL
Date: 05 Mar 02 - 02:55 PM

It will get worse before it gets better. Stay strong. Expect a whining, guilt ridden "but if you really loved me, you would do...". It is a lie. If you truly love him, you will allow him to find his own way and stand on his own two feet. If he chooses not to, you have still done your best. Good luck.

Subject: RE: BS: help in letting go of family
From: SharonA
Date: 05 Mar 02 - 02:56 PM

That's because those chips are so heavy! (We ain't talkin' potato chips here; more like concrete chunks)

Subject: RE: BS: help in letting go of family
From: Big Mick
Date: 05 Mar 02 - 03:26 PM

These are tough times for you. But remember Gordon Bok's wise words, "The world is always turning towards the morning". You will come out of the night, but first you have to get through the darkness. Keep the touchstone of the counselor, and know that when you are feeling like this you can come here.   You will get through, I know you will.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: help in letting go of family
From: Mr Red
Date: 05 Mar 02 - 08:22 PM

Don't forget that old group therapy clinic they call the Mudcat.
I find humour the best medicine.
the only time it never worked for me was a bad time and that itself taught me.
Later bad times were characterised by poetry and songwriting - humorous ones at times.

Subject: RE: BS: help in letting go of family
From: GUEST,Been There
Date: 05 Mar 02 - 09:12 PM

This may sound funny, but don't be afraid of feeling bad. There will be a lot of that, sometimes when you expect it, and sometimes when you don't. That is natural and normal. A lot of people feel bad, and then think, if I had done the right thing, I would feel good--and they backslide, or do something creative that makes things worse--Don't let hurt stop you, because the hurt won't away unless you stay the course--

Subject: RE: BS: help in letting go of family
From:
Date: 05 Mar 02 - 09:30 PM

You say he meets with the VA so I presume he is a veteran...combat perhaps????? There are in-patient treatments and there are domiciliary programs. If you care to speak more on this issue we might be able to help. mg

Subject: RE: BS: help in letting go of family
From: mack/misophist
Date: 05 Mar 02 - 11:29 PM

If you want release from these people, do what I did. Go away. Don't look back. Don't tell them where you are. Don't talk to them or about them. After 30 years I was able to make friends with one of them. Only one.

Subject: RE: BS: help in letting go of family
From: KT
Date: 06 Mar 02 - 12:07 AM

UGH!! This is hard stuff, Guest Anon.

Perhaps you may discover at some point that you do not need to disown them completely, but do need to let go of thinking that it is within your power to help or fix or make it right. It can be a fine, confusing line.

Take courage and be gentle.....with yourself, as well.

KT

Subject: RE: BS: help in letting go of family
From: SharonA
Date: 06 Mar 02 - 10:01 AM

...and take care of yourself, physically, as well! Get enough rest, eat enough of the right foods, get enough exercise. Don't let your worry over your sibling's self-abuse cause you to abuse yourself as well as you work through your sadness. All that healthy-body stuff will help you battle situational depression.

Subject: RE: BS: help in letting go of family
From: Pied Piper
Date: 06 Mar 02 - 10:53 AM

Good luck things WILL get better

Subject: RE: BS: help in letting go of family
From: GUEST,Anon. for privacy
Date: 06 Mar 02 - 11:31 AM

my deepest gratitude is yours

I knew I could count on those who come to Mudcat to help me

it is a new day and my resolve is stronger, my friends a blessing

mgarvey - he is a vet of the Vietnam era, but in Europe, no combat

no facilities where he is except a clinic - if it comes to that, he has cats to farm out and an apartment to give up - then 3 hour trip to the VA hospital

but that is HIS decision and problem, not mine

thank you everyone from the bottom of my heart