BS: The Old Jewish Question

Subject: The Old Jewish Question
From: tremodt
Date: 08 Mar 02 - 07:42 PM

What should the USA do with Isreal We have backed them since 1947 but are they really better off with us on their side

Or what is there a solution

your comments would be appreciated

I do not want to hear that I am anti jewish

Should we give the same help to Israel that we contributed to Ireland ??

Subject: RE: BS: The Old Jewish Question
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Mar 02 - 09:18 PM

Both the Democratic and Republican parties are controlled by the jewish zionist lobby. As long as that is the case, you know what out policy will be.

Subject: RE: BS: The Old Jewish Question
From: GUEST,Guest2
Date: 08 Mar 02 - 10:14 PM

Assertion comes from those that know that they haven't any facts to stand on. It's a 'gut' feeling that's sometimes curable with a good dose of castor oil.

Subject: RE: BS: The Old Jewish Question
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Mar 02 - 10:50 PM

Regardless of one's political feelings, the relationship between the US and Isreal will continue to be strong because the two countries popultions are so closely interwoven. So that is a given.

What isn't a given, is the US's position on Palestinians. It is my opinion that the US has vered off course under the current administration and what little trust was built up during the last 4 administrations has gone down the drain.

The sad thing about the Isreali/ Palestinian situation is that Isreal stands to be more secure with a Palestinian homeland and not vice versa. People get tired of living in refugee camps and have become resentful, especially when they see the relative well being of their neighbors.

The solution is for Palestine to proclaim that Isreal has the right to exist and for Isreal to guarentee Palistinians a homeland, which will have to include both territory in Gaza and the West Bank. This accord could be negoitiated and signed so that both of these principles could occur simultaniously. If the US can't broker this accord then they should certainly ask that a third party, such as Norway, to intervene and broker it. It is doable, and is what both parties have stated they want. It's just the timing thing. It has to be simultaniuos!

Subject: RE: BS: The Old Jewish Question
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 08 Mar 02 - 11:09 PM

Roisin, the title of this thread is a bit unfortunate, if you're aware of terminology used to set the Holocaust in motion. Hitler called his plan the "Final Solution to the Jewish Question."

I know that's not what you intended.

Subject: RE: BS: The Old Jewish Question
From: Gary T
Date: 08 Mar 02 - 11:19 PM

The solution is for Palestine to proclaim that Isreal has the right to exist...

Like this is ever going to happen? I think it would be great, but I'm not holding my breath.

Subject: RE: BS: The Old Jewish Question
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 08 Mar 02 - 11:27 PM

Well, it ain't gonna happen, but I'm still for the (hopefully peaceful) incorporation of Israel into a secular state of greater Palestine. :)

---Lepus Rex

Subject: RE: BS: The Old Jewish Question
From: JedMarum
Date: 09 Mar 02 - 12:03 AM

Isreal's population has grown 35% in the last few years, primarily from immigration, primarily from non-middle east countries. Local populations have seen their homeland taken away from them, primarily by Europeans since 1947 - and they were being bought out before that. They have lost influence in their own land, and they have been continually pushed out. I wonder why they got pissed off?

What if all the New Yorkers decided they were fed up with NYC and they bought land and started moving into Rhode Island? In a little while, they have all their people in office, and soon all the laws and courts are in favor of the New Yorkers. Now all the locals are powerless, displaced and angry - but there are 20 Million New Yorkers living in Rhode Island saying "What this is MY state?"

The Saudi initiative sounds like the best option for settlement, and the only fair one I can imagine.

Subject: RE: BS: The Old Jewish Question
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Mar 02 - 12:42 AM

A reincarnated Hitler came into a bar - and had few...

With his thirst quenched and his tongue loosened he said, "This time I am going to do it right - I will slaughter 10 million jews - and 6 Jugglers!!!"

The bartender asked, "Why six Jugglers?"

Hitler replied, "See....... no-one gives a fuck...... about the jews!!!"

Subject: RE: BS: The Old Jewish Question
From: michaelr
Date: 09 Mar 02 - 01:29 AM

Lepus - excuse my ignorance, but has there been an official plan put forward with the goal of "incorporation of Israel into a secular state of greater Palestine"? or did you think of that yourself?

Regards,
Michael

Subject: RE: BS: The Old Jewish Question
From: GUEST,Feder
Date: 09 Mar 02 - 10:54 AM

"I do not want to hear that I am anti jewish" (sic)says RO1SIN, the originator of this thread.

Yet, in starting a thread purporting to be about the relationship between "Isreal" (sic) and the USA, RO1SIN calls the thread, "The Old Jewish Question."

Historically, the so-called Jewish Question is a traditional construct of European anti-Semitism. For example, the principles "liberty, equality and fraternity" of the French Revolution of 1789 did not include Jews. A century later, the so-called Jewish Question led to the infamous Dreyfuss case.

In Germany, as Lonesome EJ correctly points out, Final Solution to the Jewish Question was the Holocaust, the genocidal murder of 6,000,000 Jews, including my great-grandparents and five of their six children. My grandfather was the only survivor of his family.

When I hear someone quacking, in other words the language of water fowl, I assume that I am listening to a duck.

Subject: RE: BS: The Old Jewish Question
From: The Pooka
Date: 09 Mar 02 - 12:09 PM

(1)Bona Fides: I am of the goyim; pro-Israel; and pro-Palestinian-state. My formerly-goyische wife is in process of converting to Judaism, with my (intrigued) support. I ain't anti-Semitic. (Just anti-semantic.) (2) That said: Israel becoming, or becoming part of, a "secular state" is a contradiction in terms. Being a religiously (not just "culturally") Jewish homeland is Israel's raison d'etre. Some ultra-Orthodox sects are explicitly anti-Zionist because they believe the re-establishment of the Jewish nation *before* the coming of the Messiah is a doctrinal abomination, a sacrilege. "Infamia", the Godfather would say. ;) That's how bound up with theology the whole matter is. Israeli religious parties think the state is too secular *now*! Theocracy is un-American, but we're not talking America here. (Robert Welch, John Birch Society founder, once asked in an interview for his opinion of Soviet Premier Nikita Kruschev: "Why, that fellow is almost a traitor to the United States of America." :) Proposing a secular Israel is sort of like suggesting a teetotaling Muslim Ireland. What's the point? (3) Shpeaking of which, Yes we should give the same, or rather more, peacemaking assistance to Israelis/Palestinians as to Loyalists/Nationalists of Norn Iron. The Jews & Arabs already have Mitchell Principles they're supposed to implement; but it's hard to begin confidence-building while the parties are daily slaughtering each other. Although there are parallels, the Palestinian Intifada & Sharon's Crusades are intrinsically worse that the Ulster Troubles ever were---and incalculably more dangerous. Even if the Good Friday agreement collapses, regional (maybe nuclear) war is not going to erupt as a consequence. (3) Ultimately, Israel must shrink & recognize a Palestinian state-becoming-nation (see the Irish Free State); and Palestine must accept a downsized Jewish Israel---without an unrestricted Right of Return. The descendants of Cromwell's Deportees cannot return en masse from Hell or from Connaught & drive the Presbyterians into the sea, nor outvote 'em either. (Now the six-counties internal birthrate demographics, that's another matter; but also another Thread.) (4) There. I'm certainly glad we got *that* settled. Tomorrow I'll post the solutions to Global Warming and Human Cloning. Gee I'm proud to be an American, where at least I know I can talk through me hat from far, far away. :)

Subject: RE: BS: The Old Jewish Question
From: tremodt
Date: 09 Mar 02 - 02:39 PM

very good answers one and all

thank you

lets end it now