Help: JUDAS

Subject: RE: Help: JUDAS
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 10 Mar 02 - 05:32 PM

Another good song from Judas' perspective is Roy Harper's "Baby Don't You Grieve."

Subject: RE: Help: JUDAS
From: The Shambles
Date: 10 Mar 02 - 05:26 AM

Stand Up For Judas. Link to a thread with the posted words to this fine song, that has yet to appear in the DT.

Subject: RE: Help: JUDAS
From: masato sakurai
Date: 09 Mar 02 - 11:04 PM

On inaccuracies in Child's text, click here (from The Traditional Ballad Index).

Masato

Subject: RE: Help: JUDAS
From: toadfrog
Date: 09 Mar 02 - 09:21 PM

Thanks. Very impressive bibliography. I may well get to one of those. That 150 page article may well be more comprehensive than I could deal with.

The ballad makes Pilate into a Jew! What an infuriating piece of slander!

Subject: RE: Help: JUDAS
From: masato sakurai
Date: 09 Mar 02 - 03:49 AM

If you have an opportunity, try to find these articles (though not easy-to-read ones in scholarly journals) at local or college libraries:

Paul Franklin Baum, "The English Ballad of Judas Iscariot." PMLA [Publications of the Modern Language Association], vol. 31 (1916), pp. 181-189.
Paul Franklin Baum, "The Mediaeval Legend of Judas Iscariot." PMLA, vol. 31 (1916), pp. 481-632. [very comprehensive article]
Donald G. Schuler, "The Middle English Judas: An Interpretation." PMLA, vol. 91 (1976), pp. 840-844.
Mary-Ann Stouck, "A Reading of the Middle English Judas." Journal of English and Germanic Philology, vol. 80 (1981), pp. 188-198.

I remember reading parts of them some twenty years ago, but have forgotten the contents. The manuscript (with transcription and translation) of "Judas" is online (Click here).

~Masato

Subject: JUDAS-what does it mean?
From: toadfrog
Date: 09 Mar 02 - 02:41 AM

I was curious about this legend or ballad, so that as soon as I got the first volume of the English and Scottish Popular Ballads, I looked to see what Prof. Child would say. A bit disappointing.

Generally I agree with Malcom that you should not read too much into songs (or legends. But it seemed to me this was a very interesting kind of religious sensibility. As if Judas was as good a disciple as any, and was forced into a preordained role against his will. Jesus gave him thirty pieces of silver, to buy dinner for the apostles, and told him, go by such a route, perhaps you will meet your relatives. Jesus, of course, must know what will happen, for he knows Peter will deny Him. And Judas meets his sister, who seemingly steals the silver. And Judas tears out his hair. And he will betray his Master, but only in return for the same thirty pieces he lost. That isn't the Biblical Judas, but it is darkly fascinating.

Does anyone know more about this legend? Has anyone more recent than Prof. Child considered it?

I have no idea what "thirty pieces of silver" meant in biblical times; my source says Matthew got the sum from Zechariah. But in the Thirteenth Century, where the ballad seems to have originated, thirty Shillings was a whole lot of money.